89 réponses à ce sujet

[XCPTNL]

I prefer the Valiant over my Black Widow IV - I usually kill twice as much and fast with the Valiant as with the BW. I use the Barrel and Piercing Mod and kill so much stuff with it on Gold. Can't do the same with the Black Widow in the same time.

[Khaydarin135]

I have widow III, black widow and N7 valiant. Which one is best would depend on your skill as well. I consider the first 2 to be elite sniper cause can't allow to miss your target. N7-Valiant on the other hand is much more forgiving without sacrificing to much firepower.

In terms of DPS, Valiant outmatch widow and black widow(not quite sure for this latter though) when combined with cloak since all three shot can benefit from the 120% damage bonus.

Like previously said, it's easier to align headshot but its easy to steal kill as well. Wasting a bullet with the viliant is no big deal. 

I would go with the valiant.

Modifié par Khaydarin135, 28 mars 2012 - 12:31 .

[Atheosis]

Really wish I had gotten a Valiant instead of a Crusader. A sniping shotgun is just silly, and it weighs a metric ton to boot.

Modifié par Atheosis, 28 mars 2012 - 12:32 .

[Kronner]

Khaydarin135 wrote...

I have widow III, black widow and N7 valiant. Which one is best would depend on your skill as well. I consider the first 2 to be elite sniper cause can't allow to miss your target.

That's why I prefer Black Widow over any other sniper. Not a fan of Valiant. While it is effective, it sounds awful and has no recoil..wtf...makes it no fun to use for me. Anyway, Black Widow any day.

Modifié par Kronner, 28 mars 2012 - 12:33 .

[Giwen85]

Wouldnt the choice of sniper also depend on how your team is set up?
Depending if you need the extra damage on high armor targets or not? personnaly i find the mantis to be equal, if not better suited for some teamsetups, while in other situations the Widow, Black Widow and Javlin for that mather to be far better.

[SentinelBorg]

I prefer my Raptor VII over my Mantis X (haven't gotten any Widow yet) on my Salarian Infiltrator.
You can trigger the pull so fast on that thing, that you get out around 5 shots with the TC dam bonus which nets in total more damage than the one shot of the Mantis.

It also has a lower power scope, which works better for me. You can shoot it from the hip like a AR, so I don't need a backup weapon. And if I miss a shot, I don't start to cry.

[Your Denden]

Please remember the data submitted aren't from Widow X and Black Widow X. That means we can't say the full potential of said weapons are fact. Of course, assuming or forming hypotheses about them would not hurt as well. We can't nor can have a say that a Widow X could two shot a Prime, or a BW X could one-bodyshot kill a low tier mob.

[Ephidiel]

it really depends if you care for killing targets or supporting the group
playing on Gold i usually have the 75Kills + 50 Assists and easily the highest points of the group and i use the Valiant. It really helps if you can stun enemies for your groupmembers to take them down.
But then again i'm not playing with randoms but with a good group and using the party chat on Xbox.
We mostly don't care who kills the target as long as its dead.
and the Valiant with its 3 shots that can be fired pretty much without delay compared to the BW which takes a while before you can shoot the 2nd bullet makes it much better as a support weapon.

[Terraflare]

Ephidiel wrote...

it really depends if you care for killing targets or supporting the group
playing on Gold i usually have the 75Kills + 50 Assists and easily the highest points of the group and i use the Valiant. It really helps if you can stun enemies for your groupmembers to take them down.
But then again i'm not playing with randoms but with a good group and using the party chat on Xbox.
We mostly don't care who kills the target as long as its dead.
and the Valiant with its 3 shots that can be fired pretty much without delay compared to the BW which takes a while before you can shoot the 2nd bullet makes it much better as a support weapon.

Yes I agree and cant stress this enough as well. The choice of weapon (Mantis, Widow, BW, Valiant) will also very much depend on who you are running with and what you want to achieve. Using a Valiant i can cloak > ED shields off one guy, headshot another (strip shields fully), double headshot a third (strip shields fully), leaving 3 unshielded guys for either another BW user to pop off, or for a biotic explosion. The Valiant is very good at rapidly dishing out damage in a flexible manner due to its fast reload and 0 recoil. On gold this is very useful as combined with AOE from a biotic/sentinel/engineer can clear a crowd v quickly.

If im running with a pub that im not quite sure about, sometimes using a BW is better because often leaving a phantom/anything with just 2-3 bars of health left will NOT be quickly focus fired down by someone else, allowing it time to recharge its shields to full. With the BW i can guarantee that slightly beefier targets go down 100%, while giving up some flexibility.

[Tested-Faythe]

no javelin?
I is saaad...

[Adonijah]

I just recently got my Black Widow. I also have the Mantis X, Widow III, and Uncommons VIII - X, but lack the Valiant.

On my Salarian Infiltrator, when spec'd for full damage on Salarian Operative and Tactical Cloak (minus melee), the difference in cooldown on Tactical Cloak is something like ~140% between the Mantis and the Black Widow. I keep a Shruiken X with Lightweight III and Extended Barrel V for backup. Shruiken + Mantis comes out to 3.6s Tactical Cloak cooldown. Shruiken + Black Widow comes out to 8s. Now I've just started trying Gold, but the long cooldowns hurt. I'll give the Valiant its fair shake if/when, but in my experience, the shorter cooldowns on Tactical Cloak and Energy Drain may outweigh the damage increase of the Widow and Black Widow. Why? Because your DPS = 0 when you're dead.'

EDIT:  On Salarian Operative, I took Weapon Damage over Power Damage and Capacity on this iteration.  Considering how much Spectre packs love to grant me Resets, I'll see if there's a meaningful difference.

Modifié par Adonijah, 28 mars 2012 - 04:20 .

[CV77]

Ok I have to ask because I just started to play with infiltrators - why are people prefering Widow over Mantis? Am I missing something (not trying to troll, just asking)? The game shows me both have exactly the same damage output, clip capacity and fire rate, only Mantis is much lighter. So what's the advantage of Widow over Mantis?

[xiaoassassin]

Valiant is the best sniper rifle for Gold.

[tvih]

Haven't tried the Widow I yet, but I must say even though I like the Mantis X otherwise, the damage against Atlas, Brute, Banshee etc is ******-poor, even with full cloak damage bonus, with or without AP mod. I see people taking huge chunks off them with Widows and such, yet my Mantis doesn't seem to even take one bar.

[Terraflare]

Adonijah wrote...

I just recently got my Black Widow. I also have the Mantis X, Widow III, and Uncommons VIII - X, but lack the Valiant.

On my Salarian Infiltrator, when spec'd for full damage on Salarian Operative and Tactical Cloak (minus melee), the difference in cooldown on Tactical Cloak is something like ~140% between the Mantis and the Black Widow. I keep a Shruiken X with Lightweight III and Extended Barrel V for backup. Shruiken + Mantis comes out to 3.6s Tactical Cloak cooldown. Shruiken + Black Widow comes out to 8s. Now I've just started trying Gold, but the long cooldowns hurt. I'll give the Valiant its fair shake if/when, but in my experience, the shorter cooldowns on Tactical Cloak and Energy Drain may outweigh the damage increase of the Widow and Black Widow. Why? Because your DPS = 0 when you're dead.'

EDIT:  On Salarian Operative, I took Weapon Damage over Power Damage and Capacity on this iteration.  Considering how much Spectre packs love to grant me Resets, I'll see if there's a meaningful difference.

Cloak cooldown and weight do not matter if 95% of the time you are cloaking and firing instantly, this will always trigger the minimum 3 second cooldown, even if you are at -200% cd weight. Yu only face the full cooldown ie the 8 seconds if you remian cloaked for thr full duration ie when capping objectives. Which happens only once in a while.

This is also the reason why widow is vastly superior to mantis, because of innate penetration and much higher single shot damage useful on fat targets. E only advantage thr mantis has again is cooldown, which is only relevant if you find yourself always cloaking for the full duration. 

[EmperorZorn]

If we are talking about MAXED out guns:

Black Widow > Widow > Mantis

..while all of these rifles are great and get the job done.

[Rohirrim]

CV77 wrote...

Ok I have to ask because I just started to play with infiltrators - why are people prefering Widow over Mantis? Am I missing something (not trying to troll, just asking)? The game shows me both have exactly the same damage output, clip capacity and fire rate, only Mantis is much lighter. So what's the advantage of Widow over Mantis?

I'd really like to know that, too. I just got the Widow I and equipped it for my Salarian Engineer. The power recharge is so much worse than the Mantis. The only advantage I could make out is that I could shoot through the Guardian's shield (unless my aim was just that well - but I don't think so)

[jotun04]

For a human infiltrator without energy drain, it seems the the BW and Valiant are clearly superior to the Widow and Mantis on Gold

[RazRei]

Man do we talk about this subject everyday on this forum?

You're missing the Javelin which can two shot almost everything once you get it passed level I.

Not only that with the stacking AP Mod you can one shot everything that doesn't have shield/barrier etc through cover.

EmperorZorn wrote...

If we are talking about MAXED out guns:

Black Widow > Widow > Mantis

..while all of these rifles are great and get the job done.

For trash?  Sure.  For big game the Widow IMO is just as good if not better than the BW.

Modifié par RazRei, 01 avril 2012 - 05:51 .

[Feardain]

level 3 Javelin, can 1 shot a nemesis on gold.
That was with a level 5 sniper damage upgrade mod though.

Widow takes 2 shots at level 5.

[hammyhamstersy]

i haven't got the bw yet but valient is great for infiltrators without ED because the 1st shot (even on gold) will usually take out shield and the 2nd shot will kill most enemies. Plus the reload is so fast that even if you make a mistake you can quickly get 3 more shots off.

[Rohirrim]

What's the rarity (rare, ultrarare, collector's edition only?) of the N7 Valiant?

[Atheosis]

Rohirrim wrote...

What's the rarity (rare, ultrarare, collector's edition only?) of the N7 Valiant?

It has an N7 black outline, but it's not an ultra rare like other N7's.  Your guaranteed it or one of the other guns that were in the SP Collector's Edition when completing the assigned task of a weekend event.

[LeTtRrZ]

A lot of people say that the Black Widow is better than the Valiant, but I disagree. I think they are neck-in-neck. They both have their strengths and weaknesses: the BW has power behind a single shot, a slow rate of fire, a high weight, and a slow reload time. It can take down heavy targets extremely quickly.

The valiant, on the other hand, has a faster rate of fire, a MUCH faster reload time, and a lower weight. It can drop a heavy target in about the same time as a BW.

As for the Mantis and the Widow, it's not even a question; the Widow is the better one by far. It may have a high weight, but once you start getting upgraded versions, you don't have to worry about its weight. The widow is the most powerful sniper rifle in the game per shot.

[SinerAthin]

Black Widow is best.

You can't oneshot shielded mobs on Gold so it beats Mantis.

It also has an inborn AP mod.


To summarize it all:

The Valiant and Black Widow are both superior to the Mantis. Choosing between the two of them is simply a matter of taste.