There's also absurd parts of the game, like the fricking space ninja and Raiden impersonator.
I don't think most people realize how many corners were cut...(not ending related!)
Débuté par
DangerousPuddy
, mars 23 2012 12:07
Retour en haut
#77
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 04:57
wizardryforever
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Maybe I'm just long winded and like to play devil's advocate?Brony4LIFE wrote...
Whoa man, with a long post like that, are you saying that you actually LIKED the endings?
But seriously though, I never mentioned the endings. They were disappointing, but not as vastly so as most other people seem to think. I'd have been fine with them for the most part if only they'd given some closure as to what happened to everything. Show us our choices mattered, or at least changed things, and I'd be set.
#78
Guest_Hello Man_*
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 05:00
Guest_Hello Man_*
Guest_Hello Man_*
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- Guests
James_Raynor wrote...
There's also absurd parts of the game, like the fricking space ninja and Raiden impersonator.
Well theirs also space vampires. Ardak Yakshi. so go figure. Kai Leng was pretty bad ass in the books but bioware dumb-ed him down into some ballerina.
#79
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 05:06
ReshyShira
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Hello Man wrote...
James_Raynor wrote...
There's also absurd parts of the game, like the fricking space ninja and Raiden impersonator.
Well theirs also space vampires. Ardak Yakshi. so go figure. Kai Leng was pretty bad ass in the books but bioware dumb-ed him down into some ballerina.
You mean this bad ass?
#80
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 05:08
BFG Achilies
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was anyone else confused by how little explanation there was for things that were changes for ME3?
a change was made regarding a character but they didnt bother to try and fill in a few seconds to have shep and that character talk about why such a change occured (Anderson)
a change was made regarding a character but they didnt bother to try and fill in a few seconds to have shep and that character talk about why such a change occured (Anderson)
#81
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 05:10
admcmei
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James_Raynor wrote...
Hello Man wrote...
James_Raynor wrote...
There's also absurd parts of the game, like the fricking space ninja and Raiden impersonator.
Well theirs also space vampires. Ardak Yakshi. so go figure. Kai Leng was pretty bad ass in the books but bioware dumb-ed him down into some ballerina.
-cut-
You mean this bad ass?
oh god that made me laugh, the panels are genius.
#82
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 05:13
TaHol
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Thanks OP, my thoughts exactly. In my opinion it is sad that people praise rest of the game and say that only 10 minutes of the game is flawed, when there is so much rushing and corner cutting to be seen. I see no quality. Add horrible journal too. I did not enjoy this game nearly as much I enjoyed other ME-games.
I expected high quality game because of ME2, and because I was adamant they will not screw and rush this game, and I was so sure they would do anything after DA2-fiasco to make sure this game would be a high light of the trilogy (as we were promised). So yes, I'm in awe. I see few really fine quests and locations, and rest of the game is mediocre. And I don't see ANY of what I was promised. I never believe markteting BS, you know, "our game is best of the century, experience this and that bla bla", but BioWare made several promises about story and game play and I did not get what they promised.
I blame short developement cycle. This game would have needed a year more, and I have no more understanding for men in suits thinking gamers are stupid money bags. And as I was afraid, MP ate lots of resources and cash and we can see it in SP.
I expected high quality game because of ME2, and because I was adamant they will not screw and rush this game, and I was so sure they would do anything after DA2-fiasco to make sure this game would be a high light of the trilogy (as we were promised). So yes, I'm in awe. I see few really fine quests and locations, and rest of the game is mediocre. And I don't see ANY of what I was promised. I never believe markteting BS, you know, "our game is best of the century, experience this and that bla bla", but BioWare made several promises about story and game play and I did not get what they promised.
I blame short developement cycle. This game would have needed a year more, and I have no more understanding for men in suits thinking gamers are stupid money bags. And as I was afraid, MP ate lots of resources and cash and we can see it in SP.
Modifié par TaHol, 23 mars 2012 - 05:29 .
#83
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 05:18
ReshyShira
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admcmei wrote...
oh god that made me laugh, the panels are genius.
Have another:
#84
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 05:23
Jull3
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Taradil wrote...
DangerousPuddy wrote...
Taradil wrote...
Lycius wrote...
Genshie wrote...
Really? You are complaining about two noticable photos..... Tali's pic and the winter scene. Yeah um most games have done this many times over and I don't see people complaining about them as much as these two.DangerousPuddy wrote...
Oh yeah might as well add to the list photo-shop edited stock photos. It's sad because as a graphics designer I could see their efforts were just pathetic. What happened to original material in today's world?
Are you seriously defending the Tali photo? I'll give you the ending photo, that is fairly common in all manner movies, TV, games, etc... Good lord, how many times are stock photo's used in Star Trek TNG?
The Tali photo was just monumental laziness, lack of concern for the fans, and insulting. I mean really, there are dozens if not hundreds of renderings of Tali online that are INFINITELY better than the material provided in a professionally created product which cost $60+
Please...
You do realise Tali was made a squad-member just to please the fans right? She had no reason of being one at all and the story shows that, as she's pretty useless overall. Talimancer can't demand their character as a squad-mate and then expect a big epic reveal of her face, there must be some justice. Think about all the useful characters that got shafted as squad-mates so Talimancer could be happy.
Whether this is true or not, it does not excuse what they did. Furthermore, I don't see how your only Quarian and former potential love interest from the second game was just "made" a squad member. Especially with the Geth/Quarian resolution as a main part of the story, the dark energy thing (which apparently amounted to little) etc.
It was poor writing on the part of Bioware if your story has any truth.
To be fair, Legion, Mordin etc. was as important to the overall story as Tali in ME2. And it's true, I can't find the source of it, but a dev confirmed a long time ago. And if you look at the game, during the geth/quarian-conflict, it's you and Legion that resolves it, Legion keeps the Geth in shackles and you Shepard, a human, must hammer som sense into the Quarians. Tali does nothing, she's just there, dreaming about her future house. To be fair, she opened her eyes and saw something in the Geth that other Quarians did not, but she never used this ability to actually talk som sense into the Admirals. Okay, I am a bit harsh here, Tali has her moments, sure, but it's so obvious she's just there for fanservice. Former members like Mordin, Thane, Miranda and Legion ofc, does so much to the overall story. Mordin freaking cures the genophage, Thane saves a councilor, Miranda leads you to Cerberus Main-base, Legion keeps the Geth in shackles and so on.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that point. I don't think it was fanservice at all. Tali, along with Garrus, was around the get go. She was a very important character in the first, and second game as well as a potential love interest. You say other characters got shafted out of a spot on the squad for Tali, but did you forget that there were 12 different characters in the second game. No Maybe if there were 5 other squadmates besides the 7 you get already, four of them that you don't actually need, I don't think fanservice had anything to do with it.
Garrus and Tali can both be dead, you can kill Kaiden/Ashley and you don't need to get Javik at all. He's as optional as the other 3. You're literally required 3 characters. Liara, James, and Edi. If you think TALI is fanservice, then what does that make Edi? She's more useless than James, and I like both of them in some ways. They could have cut them and had 2 other characters. Maybe mordin if you keep him alive?
About the characters you named as better "Squadmates" or at least more important to the plot, 2 of them are going to die no matter what; the other 2 can die if you don't meet certain requirements. I'm not trying to bash you, but I don't think for one second that Tali is fanservice, even though I am a Tali fanboy. xP
#85
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 05:49
Cainne Chapel
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James_Raynor wrote...
admcmei wrote...
oh god that made me laugh, the panels are genius.
Have another:
You win my eternal love
#86
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 05:54
Cainne Chapel
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[quote]wizardryforever wrote...
[quote]DangerousPuddy wrote...
People talk about the ending, and whether you oppose or support it one thing you can't deny is the fact that it's chaos is so far reaching, SOMETHING is wrong with it. Mainly, the false advertising and end product (with respect to the ending)
Putting that aside, I think the favor of multiplayer (via Galactic Readiness and more), and general attitude whether it be corporate influence or a change in BioWare's culture cut alot more out of the game then we realize. These issues are overshadowed by the memorable moments in the game and the ending fiasco.
Promise: We were promised the most "innovative dialogue" options in any game
Reality: We got more auto-dialogue than ever before, fewer investigate options and many options that were the exact same one-liner. Not to mention so much of the dialogue was pure cheese. IE "Welcome back Shepard!" *awkward pause* "Thanks." Why not: "Damn great to have you back Shepard!" *smile* "It's good to be back!"
More importantly, why wasn't there any dialogue options to say "screw you Ash?" or "thanks, but I think we still are not out of this mess yet"[/quote]
Well to be fair here, there may be fewer options, but the options that were there felt pretty real. You no longer have Shepard asking things like "I'd like to know more about [insert topic here]" like in ME1. ME2 had a few holdovers like this as well ("I've never heard of the Corsairs"). The whole point of these options is to provide exposition and develop the setting. There's really no point providing exposition during the climax, and doing so is a great way to ruin the pacing.
[quote]
Promise: More exploration
Reality: They delivered on that promise for things like the citadel, but they cut out INTERACTIVE quests, so instead we just eavesdrop to receive a useless quest that doesn't tie much into the story aside from A War Asset that we have no idea about. And this usually ended up being a scanning relic as opposed to a ground quest. Anyone miss when you could interactive with an NPC and think about the quest?[/quote]
So what exactly is the complaint here? That there is less exploration, or that you felt that the sidequests were meaningless? Seems like they aren't really related, at least not in regards to how you worded this. I liked that there was actually stuff to find, and that said stuff was actually useful in the long run. For example, the galaxy map has had stuff to find since the first game, but finding asari writings etc in ME1, or minerals in ME2 had almost no impact on the game itself, or the story. At least in this game Bioware tried to tie that stuff in. And let's not forget the amount of stuff you find on foot. I frequently miss guns, mods, and mini-quest items when I'm on missions because they're tucked away in a corner somewhere, and I have to buy them from a store later. Seems to me like they delivered on the promise of more exploration.
[quote]
Promise: More Character development (hence smaller squad)
Reality: After every mission in ME1 and ME2, you would be able to have full-fledged conversations with your crewmates, offering insight into their history and current situation. In ME3 rarely ever got the interactive conversation just a "tap A and listen to them say a sentence or two" ala Kasumi and Zaeed - even worse than them in some cases. It's kind of immersion breaking to have a one-sided conversation with your LI.[/quote]
Okay, on this one I couldn't disagree more. The character development in this game far surpasses the previous games, and here's why. For one, they interact with each other more in this game than in both previous games combined. Whether it's Joker calling up Liara with a question about her hair tentacles, or Tali and Garrus smooching in the forward battery, or Vega and Cortez arguing about the Mako and Hammerhead, you get the sense that these are actual people, and not just power batteries for when you're on missions. Furthermore, over the course of the game, you get to talk to each squadmate about the same number of times as the previous two games, with the added bonus of getting to know them better, and not just what you can do for them. ME2 was pretty good about this, but this game put a lot more emotion into squad interactions. You can romantically set up Joker and EDI, fight with Vega, and console Liara when her homeworld falls. Tali even gets drunk! And drunk Tali is hilarious.
[quote]
Promise: More RPG elements
Reality: To anyone who says the customization was vastly improved compared to ME2 is lying. I personally hate having huge inventories of weapons, armor, items and the classical RPG jazz. I am more of a streamlinied player, but I was looking forward to some weapon customizations and powers. Combat is such that it hardly makes a difference and it is restricted to the same upgrades with different %'s. Furthermore, this is still an RPG game right...how did quest updates, map locations get REMOVED from the game. I never knew when a quest was done, or where on the Citadel the "questgiver" was until I got to the right level. Hell I had to look up where Dukurra was...[/quote] This is a serious case of "Your Mileage May Vary" or YMMV. It seems to me like they took the good things from ME1 and ME2 and combined them, while getting rid of the clutter. It's all opinion. Anyway, map updates are still there. That's how I managed to do all the mini-quests. When you're on the Citadel, you can look at the map for all six areas at once (once you've unlocked those areas), regardless of where you are exactly. Anything you can interact with (except Avina and stores) is listed in blue text in the map legend. If you see something new there, then you have a potential new quest.
[/quote]
[/quote]
If I may quote another game:
"I like this Human! He understands!"
I have to agree with wizardry here on almost all accounts. And personally I dont see the Fetch quests as SIDE quests. To me Side quests were things like Grissoms Academy and joining the Aralakh company raid, etc.
Honestly while there weren't as many N7 quests in ME3, I thought the side quests were phenomenal and a great use of ME2 characters, heck I even liked Kasumi's and Zaeeds simple little side quests to have them on board. Granted ME3 isn't perfect, but since when were ME1 or ME2 perfect as well? I swear these forums moods and opinions change with the moon....
Personally I LOVED ME3, could it have been better? Hell yes, but I enjoyed it froms tart to finish and the only hting I didn't like about the ending is the lack of closure for the crew and universe... I would of liked to seen how Shepard effected everyone afterwards... thats really all I wanted.
But dont get me wrong I love ME1 and 2 as well, but as the forums a 2+ months ago proves, neither were perfect either, we just have something new to focus on now and criticize and what not.
[quote]DangerousPuddy wrote...
People talk about the ending, and whether you oppose or support it one thing you can't deny is the fact that it's chaos is so far reaching, SOMETHING is wrong with it. Mainly, the false advertising and end product (with respect to the ending)
Putting that aside, I think the favor of multiplayer (via Galactic Readiness and more), and general attitude whether it be corporate influence or a change in BioWare's culture cut alot more out of the game then we realize. These issues are overshadowed by the memorable moments in the game and the ending fiasco.
Promise: We were promised the most "innovative dialogue" options in any game
Reality: We got more auto-dialogue than ever before, fewer investigate options and many options that were the exact same one-liner. Not to mention so much of the dialogue was pure cheese. IE "Welcome back Shepard!" *awkward pause* "Thanks." Why not: "Damn great to have you back Shepard!" *smile* "It's good to be back!"
More importantly, why wasn't there any dialogue options to say "screw you Ash?" or "thanks, but I think we still are not out of this mess yet"[/quote]
Well to be fair here, there may be fewer options, but the options that were there felt pretty real. You no longer have Shepard asking things like "I'd like to know more about [insert topic here]" like in ME1. ME2 had a few holdovers like this as well ("I've never heard of the Corsairs"). The whole point of these options is to provide exposition and develop the setting. There's really no point providing exposition during the climax, and doing so is a great way to ruin the pacing.
[quote]
Promise: More exploration
Reality: They delivered on that promise for things like the citadel, but they cut out INTERACTIVE quests, so instead we just eavesdrop to receive a useless quest that doesn't tie much into the story aside from A War Asset that we have no idea about. And this usually ended up being a scanning relic as opposed to a ground quest. Anyone miss when you could interactive with an NPC and think about the quest?[/quote]
So what exactly is the complaint here? That there is less exploration, or that you felt that the sidequests were meaningless? Seems like they aren't really related, at least not in regards to how you worded this. I liked that there was actually stuff to find, and that said stuff was actually useful in the long run. For example, the galaxy map has had stuff to find since the first game, but finding asari writings etc in ME1, or minerals in ME2 had almost no impact on the game itself, or the story. At least in this game Bioware tried to tie that stuff in. And let's not forget the amount of stuff you find on foot. I frequently miss guns, mods, and mini-quest items when I'm on missions because they're tucked away in a corner somewhere, and I have to buy them from a store later. Seems to me like they delivered on the promise of more exploration.
[quote]
Promise: More Character development (hence smaller squad)
Reality: After every mission in ME1 and ME2, you would be able to have full-fledged conversations with your crewmates, offering insight into their history and current situation. In ME3 rarely ever got the interactive conversation just a "tap A and listen to them say a sentence or two" ala Kasumi and Zaeed - even worse than them in some cases. It's kind of immersion breaking to have a one-sided conversation with your LI.[/quote]
Okay, on this one I couldn't disagree more. The character development in this game far surpasses the previous games, and here's why. For one, they interact with each other more in this game than in both previous games combined. Whether it's Joker calling up Liara with a question about her hair tentacles, or Tali and Garrus smooching in the forward battery, or Vega and Cortez arguing about the Mako and Hammerhead, you get the sense that these are actual people, and not just power batteries for when you're on missions. Furthermore, over the course of the game, you get to talk to each squadmate about the same number of times as the previous two games, with the added bonus of getting to know them better, and not just what you can do for them. ME2 was pretty good about this, but this game put a lot more emotion into squad interactions. You can romantically set up Joker and EDI, fight with Vega, and console Liara when her homeworld falls. Tali even gets drunk! And drunk Tali is hilarious.
[quote]
Promise: More RPG elements
Reality: To anyone who says the customization was vastly improved compared to ME2 is lying. I personally hate having huge inventories of weapons, armor, items and the classical RPG jazz. I am more of a streamlinied player, but I was looking forward to some weapon customizations and powers. Combat is such that it hardly makes a difference and it is restricted to the same upgrades with different %'s. Furthermore, this is still an RPG game right...how did quest updates, map locations get REMOVED from the game. I never knew when a quest was done, or where on the Citadel the "questgiver" was until I got to the right level. Hell I had to look up where Dukurra was...[/quote] This is a serious case of "Your Mileage May Vary" or YMMV. It seems to me like they took the good things from ME1 and ME2 and combined them, while getting rid of the clutter. It's all opinion. Anyway, map updates are still there. That's how I managed to do all the mini-quests. When you're on the Citadel, you can look at the map for all six areas at once (once you've unlocked those areas), regardless of where you are exactly. Anything you can interact with (except Avina and stores) is listed in blue text in the map legend. If you see something new there, then you have a potential new quest.
[/quote]
[/quote]
If I may quote another game:
"I like this Human! He understands!"
I have to agree with wizardry here on almost all accounts. And personally I dont see the Fetch quests as SIDE quests. To me Side quests were things like Grissoms Academy and joining the Aralakh company raid, etc.
Honestly while there weren't as many N7 quests in ME3, I thought the side quests were phenomenal and a great use of ME2 characters, heck I even liked Kasumi's and Zaeeds simple little side quests to have them on board. Granted ME3 isn't perfect, but since when were ME1 or ME2 perfect as well? I swear these forums moods and opinions change with the moon....
Personally I LOVED ME3, could it have been better? Hell yes, but I enjoyed it froms tart to finish and the only hting I didn't like about the ending is the lack of closure for the crew and universe... I would of liked to seen how Shepard effected everyone afterwards... thats really all I wanted.
But dont get me wrong I love ME1 and 2 as well, but as the forums a 2+ months ago proves, neither were perfect either, we just have something new to focus on now and criticize and what not.
#87
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 05:55
laudable11
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- 1 180 messages
Paulinius wrote...
I agree, OP.
We had 19 N7 missions alone in ME2.
There were 6 N7 missions in ME3.
PROGRESS!
lol
#88
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 01:07
DangerousPuddy
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- 360 messages
[quote]Cainne Chapel wrote...
[quote]wizardryforever wrote...
[quote]DangerousPuddy wrote...
People talk about the ending, and whether you oppose or support it one thing you can't deny is the fact that it's chaos is so far reaching, SOMETHING is wrong with it. Mainly, the false advertising and end product (with respect to the ending)
Putting that aside, I think the favor of multiplayer (via Galactic Readiness and more), and general attitude whether it be corporate influence or a change in BioWare's culture cut alot more out of the game then we realize. These issues are overshadowed by the memorable moments in the game and the ending fiasco.
Promise: We were promised the most "innovative dialogue" options in any game
Reality: We got more auto-dialogue than ever before, fewer investigate options and many options that were the exact same one-liner. Not to mention so much of the dialogue was pure cheese. IE "Welcome back Shepard!" *awkward pause* "Thanks." Why not: "Damn great to have you back Shepard!" *smile* "It's good to be back!"
More importantly, why wasn't there any dialogue options to say "screw you Ash?" or "thanks, but I think we still are not out of this mess yet"[/quote]
Well to be fair here, there may be fewer options, but the options that were there felt pretty real. You no longer have Shepard asking things like "I'd like to know more about [insert topic here]" like in ME1. ME2 had a few holdovers like this as well ("I've never heard of the Corsairs"). The whole point of these options is to provide exposition and develop the setting. There's really no point providing exposition during the climax, and doing so is a great way to ruin the pacing.
[quote]
Promise: More exploration
Reality: They delivered on that promise for things like the citadel, but they cut out INTERACTIVE quests, so instead we just eavesdrop to receive a useless quest that doesn't tie much into the story aside from A War Asset that we have no idea about. And this usually ended up being a scanning relic as opposed to a ground quest. Anyone miss when you could interactive with an NPC and think about the quest?[/quote]
So what exactly is the complaint here? That there is less exploration, or that you felt that the sidequests were meaningless? Seems like they aren't really related, at least not in regards to how you worded this. I liked that there was actually stuff to find, and that said stuff was actually useful in the long run. For example, the galaxy map has had stuff to find since the first game, but finding asari writings etc in ME1, or minerals in ME2 had almost no impact on the game itself, or the story. At least in this game Bioware tried to tie that stuff in. And let's not forget the amount of stuff you find on foot. I frequently miss guns, mods, and mini-quest items when I'm on missions because they're tucked away in a corner somewhere, and I have to buy them from a store later. Seems to me like they delivered on the promise of more exploration.
[quote]
Promise: More Character development (hence smaller squad)
Reality: After every mission in ME1 and ME2, you would be able to have full-fledged conversations with your crewmates, offering insight into their history and current situation. In ME3 rarely ever got the interactive conversation just a "tap A and listen to them say a sentence or two" ala Kasumi and Zaeed - even worse than them in some cases. It's kind of immersion breaking to have a one-sided conversation with your LI.[/quote]
Okay, on this one I couldn't disagree more. The character development in this game far surpasses the previous games, and here's why. For one, they interact with each other more in this game than in both previous games combined. Whether it's Joker calling up Liara with a question about her hair tentacles, or Tali and Garrus smooching in the forward battery, or Vega and Cortez arguing about the Mako and Hammerhead, you get the sense that these are actual people, and not just power batteries for when you're on missions. Furthermore, over the course of the game, you get to talk to each squadmate about the same number of times as the previous two games, with the added bonus of getting to know them better, and not just what you can do for them. ME2 was pretty good about this, but this game put a lot more emotion into squad interactions. You can romantically set up Joker and EDI, fight with Vega, and console Liara when her homeworld falls. Tali even gets drunk! And drunk Tali is hilarious.
[quote]
Promise: More RPG elements
Reality: To anyone who says the customization was vastly improved compared to ME2 is lying. I personally hate having huge inventories of weapons, armor, items and the classical RPG jazz. I am more of a streamlinied player, but I was looking forward to some weapon customizations and powers. Combat is such that it hardly makes a difference and it is restricted to the same upgrades with different %'s. Furthermore, this is still an RPG game right...how did quest updates, map locations get REMOVED from the game. I never knew when a quest was done, or where on the Citadel the "questgiver" was until I got to the right level. Hell I had to look up where Dukurra was...[/quote] This is a serious case of "Your Mileage May Vary" or YMMV. It seems to me like they took the good things from ME1 and ME2 and combined them, while getting rid of the clutter. It's all opinion. Anyway, map updates are still there. That's how I managed to do all the mini-quests. When you're on the Citadel, you can look at the map for all six areas at once (once you've unlocked those areas), regardless of where you are exactly. Anything you can interact with (except Avina and stores) is listed in blue text in the map legend. If you see something new there, then you have a potential new quest.
[/quote]
[/quote]
If I may quote another game:
"I like this Human! He understands!"
I have to agree with wizardry here on almost all accounts. And personally I dont see the Fetch quests as SIDE quests. To me Side quests were things like Grissoms Academy and joining the Aralakh company raid, etc.
Honestly while there weren't as many N7 quests in ME3, I thought the side quests were phenomenal and a great use of ME2 characters, heck I even liked Kasumi's and Zaeeds simple little side quests to have them on board. Granted ME3 isn't perfect, but since when were ME1 or ME2 perfect as well? I swear these forums moods and opinions change with the moon....
Personally I LOVED ME3, could it have been better? Hell yes, but I enjoyed it froms tart to finish and the only hting I didn't like about the ending is the lack of closure for the crew and universe... I would of liked to seen how Shepard effected everyone afterwards... thats really all I wanted.
But dont get me wrong I love ME1 and 2 as well, but as the forums a 2+ months ago proves, neither were perfect either, we just have something new to focus on now and criticize and what not.
[/quote]
Yeah he's counter arguments are valid, but this whole this is a YMMV. The fact that the majoirty will agree, especially after a product like ME2. Aside from the cinematic aspect of the game (graphics, music etc) it seems like a step down.
[quote]wizardryforever wrote...
[quote]DangerousPuddy wrote...
People talk about the ending, and whether you oppose or support it one thing you can't deny is the fact that it's chaos is so far reaching, SOMETHING is wrong with it. Mainly, the false advertising and end product (with respect to the ending)
Putting that aside, I think the favor of multiplayer (via Galactic Readiness and more), and general attitude whether it be corporate influence or a change in BioWare's culture cut alot more out of the game then we realize. These issues are overshadowed by the memorable moments in the game and the ending fiasco.
Promise: We were promised the most "innovative dialogue" options in any game
Reality: We got more auto-dialogue than ever before, fewer investigate options and many options that were the exact same one-liner. Not to mention so much of the dialogue was pure cheese. IE "Welcome back Shepard!" *awkward pause* "Thanks." Why not: "Damn great to have you back Shepard!" *smile* "It's good to be back!"
More importantly, why wasn't there any dialogue options to say "screw you Ash?" or "thanks, but I think we still are not out of this mess yet"[/quote]
Well to be fair here, there may be fewer options, but the options that were there felt pretty real. You no longer have Shepard asking things like "I'd like to know more about [insert topic here]" like in ME1. ME2 had a few holdovers like this as well ("I've never heard of the Corsairs"). The whole point of these options is to provide exposition and develop the setting. There's really no point providing exposition during the climax, and doing so is a great way to ruin the pacing.
[quote]
Promise: More exploration
Reality: They delivered on that promise for things like the citadel, but they cut out INTERACTIVE quests, so instead we just eavesdrop to receive a useless quest that doesn't tie much into the story aside from A War Asset that we have no idea about. And this usually ended up being a scanning relic as opposed to a ground quest. Anyone miss when you could interactive with an NPC and think about the quest?[/quote]
So what exactly is the complaint here? That there is less exploration, or that you felt that the sidequests were meaningless? Seems like they aren't really related, at least not in regards to how you worded this. I liked that there was actually stuff to find, and that said stuff was actually useful in the long run. For example, the galaxy map has had stuff to find since the first game, but finding asari writings etc in ME1, or minerals in ME2 had almost no impact on the game itself, or the story. At least in this game Bioware tried to tie that stuff in. And let's not forget the amount of stuff you find on foot. I frequently miss guns, mods, and mini-quest items when I'm on missions because they're tucked away in a corner somewhere, and I have to buy them from a store later. Seems to me like they delivered on the promise of more exploration.
[quote]
Promise: More Character development (hence smaller squad)
Reality: After every mission in ME1 and ME2, you would be able to have full-fledged conversations with your crewmates, offering insight into their history and current situation. In ME3 rarely ever got the interactive conversation just a "tap A and listen to them say a sentence or two" ala Kasumi and Zaeed - even worse than them in some cases. It's kind of immersion breaking to have a one-sided conversation with your LI.[/quote]
Okay, on this one I couldn't disagree more. The character development in this game far surpasses the previous games, and here's why. For one, they interact with each other more in this game than in both previous games combined. Whether it's Joker calling up Liara with a question about her hair tentacles, or Tali and Garrus smooching in the forward battery, or Vega and Cortez arguing about the Mako and Hammerhead, you get the sense that these are actual people, and not just power batteries for when you're on missions. Furthermore, over the course of the game, you get to talk to each squadmate about the same number of times as the previous two games, with the added bonus of getting to know them better, and not just what you can do for them. ME2 was pretty good about this, but this game put a lot more emotion into squad interactions. You can romantically set up Joker and EDI, fight with Vega, and console Liara when her homeworld falls. Tali even gets drunk! And drunk Tali is hilarious.
[quote]
Promise: More RPG elements
Reality: To anyone who says the customization was vastly improved compared to ME2 is lying. I personally hate having huge inventories of weapons, armor, items and the classical RPG jazz. I am more of a streamlinied player, but I was looking forward to some weapon customizations and powers. Combat is such that it hardly makes a difference and it is restricted to the same upgrades with different %'s. Furthermore, this is still an RPG game right...how did quest updates, map locations get REMOVED from the game. I never knew when a quest was done, or where on the Citadel the "questgiver" was until I got to the right level. Hell I had to look up where Dukurra was...[/quote] This is a serious case of "Your Mileage May Vary" or YMMV. It seems to me like they took the good things from ME1 and ME2 and combined them, while getting rid of the clutter. It's all opinion. Anyway, map updates are still there. That's how I managed to do all the mini-quests. When you're on the Citadel, you can look at the map for all six areas at once (once you've unlocked those areas), regardless of where you are exactly. Anything you can interact with (except Avina and stores) is listed in blue text in the map legend. If you see something new there, then you have a potential new quest.
[/quote]
[/quote]
If I may quote another game:
"I like this Human! He understands!"
I have to agree with wizardry here on almost all accounts. And personally I dont see the Fetch quests as SIDE quests. To me Side quests were things like Grissoms Academy and joining the Aralakh company raid, etc.
Honestly while there weren't as many N7 quests in ME3, I thought the side quests were phenomenal and a great use of ME2 characters, heck I even liked Kasumi's and Zaeeds simple little side quests to have them on board. Granted ME3 isn't perfect, but since when were ME1 or ME2 perfect as well? I swear these forums moods and opinions change with the moon....
Personally I LOVED ME3, could it have been better? Hell yes, but I enjoyed it froms tart to finish and the only hting I didn't like about the ending is the lack of closure for the crew and universe... I would of liked to seen how Shepard effected everyone afterwards... thats really all I wanted.
But dont get me wrong I love ME1 and 2 as well, but as the forums a 2+ months ago proves, neither were perfect either, we just have something new to focus on now and criticize and what not.
[/quote]
Yeah he's counter arguments are valid, but this whole this is a YMMV. The fact that the majoirty will agree, especially after a product like ME2. Aside from the cinematic aspect of the game (graphics, music etc) it seems like a step down.
#89
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 01:11
Lotion Soronarr
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DangerousPuddy wrote...
Not to mention so much of the dialogue was pure cheese. IE "Welcome back Shepard!" *awkward pause* "Thanks." Why not: "Damn great to have you back Shepard!" *smile* "It's good to be back!"
More importantly, why wasn't there any dialogue options to say "screw you Ash?" or "thanks, but I think we still are not out of this mess yet"
How is your exmaple any better?
It's even more cheesy.
#90
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 01:22
DaJe
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Merzavets wrote...
Well, looks like awful ending masterfully covered all the shortcomings
Actually, yes, when I was playing I noticed overall low quality of the game (compare to the previous ones).
U forgot to mention "Hi i overheard ur conversation" type of quests
You must be wrong. Havn't you heard? All the game critics gave it a perfect score, it must be perfect!
#91
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 01:29
AkiKishi
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bandfred wrote...
I will never forgive the fact that more time was spent on the jumpsuit of a virtual depiction of a IGN "journalist" who made out with a PSP and EDI's ****** than Tali's face. This just isn't cutting corners it's a distorted sense of priorities.
Attention to do detail in the wrong places.
#92
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 01:36
ReallyRue
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Don't forget that it was promised we didn't need to play multiplayer in order to get the top amount of Effective Military Strength from War Assets. That wasn't true.
#93
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 01:59
Getorex
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Paulinius wrote...
I agree, OP.
We had 19 N7 missions alone in ME2.
There were 6 N7 missions in ME3.
PROGRESS!
I get the feeling that the intent was to add all kinds of missions (including using an upgraded Hammerhead) as DLC. I would actually have been OK with that, particularly if some of them were as outstanding as Lair of the Shadowbroker. Or the addons to ME2 (Kasumi, etc).
All that is moot, however, until and unless the end is properly dealt with.
I had problems with the miniquests too (who didn't?). I would find something out in the galaxy scanning OR during another mission and then have to wander around the citadel until I happened to run into the character that the item was associated with. Pure chance.
I had trouble finding the Elcor homeworld. It was throwing the dice for me, visiting system after system until I stumbled on it. Then it was just a quick probe drop. Sure, I didn't really expect to LAND and move around (high gravity world) but still...launching probes in place of landing and exploring isn't terribly fun.
They improved on the tedium of ME2 scanning but they went WAY too far away from the missions of ME1 where you did a lot of planetfall. Why not mix the best of ME1 and ME2 to come up with a mix in ME3? Why go one way ENTIRELY?
#94
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:06
Getorex
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Lotion Soronnar wrote...
DangerousPuddy wrote...
Not to mention so much of the dialogue was pure cheese. IE "Welcome back Shepard!" *awkward pause* "Thanks." Why not: "Damn great to have you back Shepard!" *smile* "It's good to be back!"
More importantly, why wasn't there any dialogue options to say "screw you Ash?" or "thanks, but I think we still are not out of this mess yet"
How is your exmaple any better?
It's even more cheesy.
I had no problem with that particular dialog. It seemed natural to me for a fairly reticent Shepard to "awkward pause" before saying "thanks".
The dialog that stands out to me as awkward or clumsy was the romancing dialog with Ashley in the Citadel Commons during "down time." It was fine, perfect, in fact, as Ashley was telling Shepard how/why her father would have loved Shepard. Another dialog wheel or two would have been all it took to get to the "finale", but instead Shepard clumsily skips right to "I cannot think about anything else right now but you, Ash", in response to Ashley's statement about her father. It hit me in the face immediately as...whoa, what? Just like that? Is Shep even LISTENING to her? That was a fumble, not a touchdown moment.
I also didn't really have any issue with the beginning, "We fight or we die" Shepard comment. I mean, what else was there to say really? It's too late for anything else. Things have been put off or slow-walked too long and THE moment has arrived. You cannot really DO anything but "fight or die" (more likely both).
#95
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:07
DeathScepter
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Postives:
Good Weapons and more customizable armors.
Negatives:
Needs more Indocrination Enemies other than Cerberus(I do like Cerberus and I don't like being railroaded into fighting them)
Good Weapons and more customizable armors.
Negatives:
Needs more Indocrination Enemies other than Cerberus(I do like Cerberus and I don't like being railroaded into fighting them)
#96
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:25
Yusta1
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OP you have some good point there.
Modifié par Yusta1, 23 mars 2012 - 02:25 .
#97
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:28
DaJe
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Taradil wrote...
No we can't, people must stop with the "Mass Effect 1 is so perfect, omg so best causs it offerred bland RPG-elements and bland exploration." I mean, take out the Story, characters, universe and atmosphere, and you have a really bland, boring and bad RPG/Shooter hybrid with terrible combat. Don't beleive me? Play Pinnacle Station, it's a showcase what the game would be without all the stuff that makes it good.
Wow...just wow.
Ofcourse there is not much left when you remove the MAIN elements of the game.
Instead of improving the not so good elements ME2 and ME3 improved them but also removed what was good in the first place which you could categorize as RPG elements.
#98
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:36
ohnoyoudidnt
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why are you posting in this thread if you are going to just say thatHabs25 wrote...
First world problems eh?
by the way, you seem upset by the problems the OP is bringing up, so your whining about the OP's complaint are also just mere first world problems
i think it's even hypocritical concidering you live in a first world and also have to deal with "first world problems" everyday
Modifié par ohnoyoudidnt, 23 mars 2012 - 02:37 .
#99
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:46
immagikman
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Lets not forget to critique the ME3 Collectors Edition Guide Book....very pretty, lots of pictures...but no system maps to make the second play through searching for items quicker, no Table of Contents and the Index looks like it was organized by a high school dropout 
I enjoyed my first play through the game, and I didn't find the ending all that horrible but seriously for the time and effort that when in to this, I expected ...more.
I enjoyed my first play through the game, and I didn't find the ending all that horrible but seriously for the time and effort that when in to this, I expected ...more.
#100
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 02:55
ShinAnubisXIII
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Yeah, it's true. Compared to their statements (I actively avoid using the word 'promise') Bioware didn't deliver so much in the End. However, I can mostly live with what we got. It was still a wonderful 40 hours experience for me.
I also agree with:
The biggest letdown, for me at least, were and always will be (unless fixed) Tali's extremely poor Photoshop Job and of course the ending (no plural).
I'm not really a big fan of DLCs but that's where we're at now these days and I hope Bioware will deliver more content over the next months especially a logical conclusive and satisfying ending.
I also agree with:
DangerousPuddy wrote...
... I dont see the Fetch quests as SIDE quests. To me Side quests were things like Grissoms Academy and joining the Aralakh company raid, etc.
Honestly while there weren't as many N7 quests in ME3, I thought the side quests were phenomenal and a great use of ME2 characters, heck I even liked Kasumi's and Zaeeds simple little side quests to have them on board.
The biggest letdown, for me at least, were and always will be (unless fixed) Tali's extremely poor Photoshop Job and of course the ending (no plural).
I'm not really a big fan of DLCs but that's where we're at now these days and I hope Bioware will deliver more content over the next months especially a logical conclusive and satisfying ending.
Modifié par Shin-Anubis, 23 mars 2012 - 02:56 .
