420 réponses à ce sujet

[Porfirmir]

Frankly, it was too blatantly manipulative for me to feel anything. Not very subtle at all.

[Drake-Shepard]

i was errrrr another max payne dream level. I hate these!

[Poison_Berrie]

At the start seeing the shuttle destroyed I was kind of sad that he didn't make it in the end.
But the focus on him in the dreams wore it down very quickly. If they changed things up by also adding dead squaddies and perhaps Anderson (since you left him on Earth) I think the dreams would have felt better.
You first try to get to the kid, then Anderson and finally the Virmire Victim. Then all three end together and get Reaper Blasted as you get close, wake up scared.

[Quething]

Qutayba wrote...

It was a little cliche, but I didn't mind it. They wanted to show more of Shepard's inner life this time, so they gave him some PTSD. It's not uncommon for sufferers of PTSD to fixate on a single image or person that crystallizes their trauma.

Except here's the thing. My Shep had immense stress disorder throughout ME2. Working for Cerberus had the same impact on her as waking up every morning and walking into a baby-killing factory to kill babies for eight hours to earn a paycheck. It made her short-tempered, hair-triggered, gave her horrific nightmares and drove her to depression and isolation.

And the game didn't give me the choice to show any of that. She just soldiered on and smiled in dialogs and muttered at TIM like a rebellious teenager before calmly doing what she was told.

And so I joined a chorus of forum-dwelling fans crying out for options. Let me express some emotions with my Shepard, I said. Let her stop being stoic if we don't feel she is, we all cried.

And then ME3 started. And Earth burned. And my Shep slept like a baby for the first time in three years because of the feel of her dogtags around her neck, and felt incredibly guilty when she woke up. But she shook it off and charged into the fight with optimism and courage, because she's always believed that We Can Beat The Reapers and she always will - "the good guys win" is fundamental to her psyche.

-- except, that didn't happen. Because BioWare listened to us all say "let us choose to make Shepard show some emotion" and somehow managed to get "make Shepard cry about stuff we have no say in!" out of it. And now my Shepard has nightmares she would never have and spends the whole game feeling a pessimism and defeat that she would never feel and obsesses over a kid that she wouldn't think thrice about, because she already had her PTSD, and now that she's in a position to do things and move forward with her loved ones and people she trusts at her side she's exactly where she needs to be to get over that.

But ME3 isn't about my Shepard. It's about BioWare's Shepard. The kid, both throughout the game and in the ending, is the ultimate manifestation of that. It's bloody obnoxious.

[dfstone]

I thought it was weird. Here's Shepherd who's killed hundreds and thousands of people, who's even blown up an entire Solar System in ME2. But yet he's haunted by 1 little boy.

[Nigawatts]

If it had been more organic and a little bit more nightmarish, I would have enjoyed them more.

Why does Shepard only dream of this one kid, and this freaking forest/park in the middle of nowhere? First of all my Shepard is a Spacer so he probably never even grew up playing in a park. Why is his subconscious coming up with this world? Granted it could simply be his minds version of Earth, but it's still jarring.

How about instead of 3 of the same nightmare sequences, we just have the first one be with the kid. Have the second one be the Normandy being attacked (we could get that Kai Leng Scene where he jumps into the Captain Room while still making sense in the game's storyline).

And finally we could have the third nightmare be a mock battle on Earth, where no matter how much Shepard has prepared all outcomes are the same. He would get hit by Harbinger's laser. Anderson would die. The Catalyst would actually destroy everything he loves. And his love interest would wind up stranded on a alien planet with Joker.

[Kyrellar]

The child made me feel disappointed. I groaned aloud during the first scene with him on Earth; during the escape when his shuttle is shot down, I groaned even louder, because I knew the writers would be using him as a heavy-handed metaphor for the cost of war throughout the game.

When he showed up in the dream sequences, I actually laughed in derision. I loved this series and Bioware games in general, but anyone who says ME3 deserves a 10/10 "if you just ignore the ending" is fooling themselves: there's more bad writing around than just the conclusion.

[Siven80]

The dream stuff was just odd.

Dunno what Bioware were trying to say by doing them.

[MalexT]

I'm with the OP on this.

In the beginning, it did not affect me emotionally in-game, and it only annoyed me out of character; it stuck out as a sore thumb (why is it the only sign of civilian life in sight?), it made no sense (why would it run from you and then be found at the bottom of that big slide crawling with reaper troops climbing happily into a shuttle?), and it felt too much like cheap manipulation.

The dreams didn't affect me either. I kept trying to figure out what was going on, what the message was with the reaper drone and the trees and the shadows and the flames. It never seemed obvious what the meaning might be, because it felt too cheap as a simple "you are stressed and having a nightmare" message, particularly on repetition.
I like the "oily shadows" interpretation, but that's just a theory.

Since I felt zero emotional attachment, the end was simply enraging. Of all the people who died and you had some emotional attachment to, why on Earth would that be a significant form to you? Why would it help to make all the nonsensical plot and the forced death any easier? I really tried putting a bullet through its head, so many times. Shame it didn't work.

Modifié par MalexT, 23 mars 2012 - 03:34 .

[Midarenkov]

The kid in the intro was cliche, but that's fine. Having him recur in the dreams was not fine, it just annoyed me.

[dfstone]

Kyrellar wrote...

The child made me feel disappointed. I groaned aloud during the first scene with him on Earth; during the escape when his shuttle is shot down, I groaned even louder, because I knew the writers would be using him as a heavy-handed metaphor for the cost of war throughout the game.

When he showed up in the dream sequences, I actually laughed in derision. I loved this series and Bioware games in general, but anyone who says ME3 deserves a 10/10 "if you just ignore the ending" is fooling themselves: there's more bad writing around than just the conclusion.

The writing in ME3 is just terribad.  Whoever wrote this nonsense should go take a creative writing class at their local community college.  

[kkndgr]

it was more like a troll tat achieved to ruin the GREAT FINALE of an amazing trilogy nothing more...

[Synonamess]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

I liked the dreams, to be honest. I thought they humanised Shepard somewhat.

The kid himself didn't bother me... UNTIL THE ENDING.

I agree.

[Jonathan Shepard]

Baronesa wrote...

When I played the Demo and saw the kid on earth, it did have an impact, mainly to showcase the loss and so on...

Once playing the game and the fact they KEPT hammering the stupid child all over in dreams, then it just became pointless and was not as important...

Once i got to the ending... I just wanted an option to shoot the lil... aghhhh

Agreed.

[dfstone]

Ya know they should replace the Ghost Kid's dialogue:

Shepherd: Who are you?
GK: Look lets just get this out of the way, I know I've never been in the game before and you really have no clue what I'm doing here but in all honesty, we gave up at the end of ME2 trying to make sense of this crap so just roll with me here and we'll get this over with as quickly as possible.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Being a writer myself, I could not refrain from rolling my eyes at such an obvious sympathy grab. It is a theme I thoroughly reject on grounds any impact is lost when the reader/player becomes aware this is little more than a plot device with no substance. If they had wished for the kid to draw our empathy or relate him in a symbolic way, then develop him. In lieu of starting the game off with the immediate Reaper threat, allow us to explore the trial and have a brief intro of Shepard's life since she now "turned herself in." She could meet the kid, hear some of his dreams or just hobbies, meet other people and etc. When the Reapers do invade, have a scene where Shepard actually does help the kid but it is ultimately for naught. While perhaps not perfect, you now have people at least partly invested in the kid because we can relate to him on a human level.

Alas, no such development is made and instead we are treated to a poorly executed plot device with horrendous voice acting and even worse dialogue. Frankly, a rewrite on his script alone would have been a decent improvement. I find it difficult to sympathize with a character's whose dialogue is so contrived my ears bleed.

The dream sequences though are ridiculous, plain and simple. Shepard has potentially witnessed the destruction of her entire unit by a Thresher Maw, including the torture that would derive from this itself and countless other tragedies along the way. In fact, Garrus or Tali dying in the Suicide Mission were be infinitely more traumatizing to Shepard than this could hope to achieve. What irritates me about it BioWare imposed their belief on our Shepard. I have a Shepard would not never be emotionally overwhelmed to the extent portrayed. It is understandable my imagination would not necessarily be accurately represented by the writers for obvious reasons but these nightmares have no plot relevance, no development, no anything - they are the writing making assumptions.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 23 mars 2012 - 03:50 .

[InterlagosBlau]

I thought the inclusion of the boy, as a function of the story, was a very nice touch. It might be because I am a parent and have a strong natural reaction towards wanting to protect children when they are in danger.

I liked that the story tried to remind us of what Shepard is fighting for. As I posted elsewhere, the boy immediately becomes symbolic of all the pain Shepard has to cope with as he tries to save the galaxy from the Reapers. He becomes the face of countless billions murdered by the Reapers and also becomes the symbol of Shepard’s guilt and shame over not being able to save everyone from the holocaust. He is reminded that he is human and has limitations. Shepard chases the boy in his dreams, never able to reach him because he knows that despite all his abilities, he can never bring the boy back.

The quality of the execution could certainly be up for debate, but I think this theme is an important one. Which is why I intensely disliked the reveal at the end.

[NekOoNinja]

alx119 wrote...

 I thought that the whole kid thing was pointless. It did not drive me emotionally in any way. Maybe I'm being heartless, but I just... Didn't have any attatchement with the kid, and the dialogue with him didn't make me any more sensitive towards him. And after having seen that scene in the way early E3 demo, I couldn't bring myself to care. And the dream sequences were a bit annoying, since the whole kid burning didn't have any effect on me.

What was the whole point of the kid? I mean, I get that he's supposed to be a symbol for the people he could not save on Earth and all, but... Hasn't Shepard, being the war hero that he is, seen way WORSE things? Hell even squadmates die for the Reaper cause? Any other dead in the game, Legion, Thane, Mordin, kicked me right in the heart, and made me tear up like a little girl. But somehow the kid exloding in the shuttle was... "Well, alright". 
And I hate how Shepard is so ofuscated by this kid, like jesus, he barely gave a **** about Legion, and yet he has the dream with the kid...

Honestly, the dream sequence would have had so much more impact on me if they'd added the dead squaddies in the horizon, and you trying to get to them, and when you actually do they burst in flames I would have CRIED everytime. 

But the kid... I just didn't care about some random kid, a lot of people is dying on Earth, so why care about that one damn ****ing kid. It really pisses me off because I don't see -my- Shepard caring -that much- about the kid. And he's full paragon :/ 

Your opinion on the kid BSN?

(All of this ignoring the godkid of course)

Good to hear I'm not the only one who wasn't affected by the kid. It felt forced, the dream sequences were hollywood-ish. Now a proper nightmare would have been more along the lines of teasing the player's senses instead of lighting a kid up. The shadows in the final dream were a good example of this: You could only guess who these people were, fallen squadmates, former enemies, or just the eradicated civilizations before this cycle.
The voices also had an impact. "Legion, is that you? Mordin...? Where are you?"

Nightmares usually consist of falling, drowning, being chased, or dying. The dream with the boy was more of a "vision" that wasn't all that emotional. Also, it caused shepard to be forced into caring about the kid.

Example: This is probably the scariest level in my gaming history: The Shalebridge Cradle in Thief 3. The first section of the level is *empty*. But the soundscape and events toy with the player's nerves, causing him to think up their own nightmares in the shadows.
This could have worked nicely with Shepard walking through desolate places he/she has already been to, or maybe, earth. Then totally mess up the player's mind by hinting at things that aren't there, until they finally meet a squadmate/LI. Relief! But to Shepards horror, the squaddie/LI turns into a Banshee or Husk or whatever. Or gets eaten by cannibals.
Or you see how people get torn up by reaper beams and are unable to save them - let the player feel that life has been bled from this place, and underline that despair and fear are slowly eating away on shepard's mind.

I think I could come up with better examples over time, but hopefully someone understands my idea.

[TookYoCookies]

I thought it had no point. Seemed like something out of F.E.A.R to be honest, with alice or what ever the name of the creepy little girl was. It was so forced on you when i already had relationships built up that my Shepard should've been worrying about. I.E. my LI from ME2, 'where did dat ass go and why is it not on my ship?'

Not to mention just wanting to get back all my ME2 teammates as a whole, and not being able to connect with them right away was frustrating. On top of shepard not having kids, and possibly coming from a background where he could really care-less (mine was earth-born/ruthless) . Especially after that first encounter in the vent on earth. "you cant save me, no one can" i just wanted to slam the vent door closed. He wouldve been safer just hiding in there any way lol.

[Lonsecia]

I suspect that some of the game was written as they went (much like most 'you'll never guess what'll happen next week' programs). Certainly the lack of info given as to why this boy seemingly appears in three disparate locations on Earth, then in dreams, THEN in space. Considering my Shep was a sole survivor, War hero, had died already (well, was mostly dead), lost Thane, and seen so much more death elsewhere, that little kid was... Well... Yeah.

[Haasth]

It impacted me. When the kid interrupted the romantic scene with Tali it impacted me so much I wanted to punch him through my monitor.

Then I got to the ending and realized I should probably simply have punched my monitor.

If you mean to ask if it impacted me emotionally in a sad way.. Not at all. I was way too blunt, cheesy and obviously manipulative for me to give a damn. It just substracted from my gaming experience in general. Once was enough, and just because the conversations with Liara after the first were quite well done. 

Modifié par Haasth, 23 mars 2012 - 04:39 .

[vorianxavier]

Adam2190 wrote...

I hated the kid from the very beginning, they really should have used someone that is known to you throughout the trilogy like the VS.

Or Emily Wong . If they were going to kill her anyway, might as well do it in the game instead of over *twitter.*

[Pappi]

Running slow motion in the dreams with the music--I loved that! I liked the fact the kid was (until the end) just a nameless kid, a victim...he was a symbol of the desruction. I thought that was cool. The dreams could have been used more, hearing the voices of dead characters got to me. I'd have loved an ending scene, in the dream seeing all the dead characters talk to you, as in have a profound convo. That would have been cool.

[Esoretal]

Initially, they creeped me out a bit. I got a little sense of foreboding, but no sense of what was going to happen. The kid was kind of sad, but hearing the voices of the dead was what really got to me. Watching Shepard burn was slightly cliche.

Now, I just feel like kicking that kid in the face every time I see him. Not really his fault, though. He's just an innocent kid, it's the Starchild that infuriates me.

Modifié par Esoretal, 23 mars 2012 - 11:11 .