failed attempt to distract me from the gaping nothing they had to occupy me between story missions
Did the kid on Earth and dreams had any impact on you?
Débuté par
alx119
, mars 23 2012 01:38
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#352
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:13
Evil Minion
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*sigh*
The child represented all of the people that Shep couldn't save.
It wasn't meant to get you teary-eyed.
The child represented all of the people that Shep couldn't save.
It wasn't meant to get you teary-eyed.
#353
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:14
Aurica
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CheeseEnchilada wrote...
The very first time I saw the kid, I felt a little pang of sadness. By the third dream, I was mildly irritated. By the ending, I was done. I do appreciate the attempts to pull at the heartstrings, but it felt overdone. And god-child certainly did not help.
Yea exactly... too way overdone. They are trying too hard to eliicit some form of emotional response from us that it backfired
#354
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:18
Bluumberry
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Evil Minion wrote...
*sigh*
The child represented all of the people that Shep couldn't save.
It wasn't meant to get you teary-eyed.
Maybe, but it doesn't come across right when the majority of players don't care about the kid. My Shepard for example would have been seeing her dead squadmates or current crewmates in danger.
#355
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:19
GuardianAngel470
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None whatsoever. Basically until I started hearing Mordin in those dream sequences I simply didn't care. Then I cared a tiny fraction.
The kid was always the worst part of the game right up until the ending where it becomes an avatar for the Catalyst/Guardian.
Actually, yeah, the kid was the worst part of the game.
The kid was always the worst part of the game right up until the ending where it becomes an avatar for the Catalyst/Guardian.
Actually, yeah, the kid was the worst part of the game.
#356
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:20
Evil Minion
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Bluumberry wrote...
Evil Minion wrote...
*sigh*
The child represented all of the people that Shep couldn't save.
It wasn't meant to get you teary-eyed.
Maybe, but it doesn't come across right when the majority of players don't care about the kid. My Shepard for example would have been seeing her dead squadmates or current crewmates in danger.
He wasn't a literal "kid."
He was just a symbol of all the people Shep couldn't save (which he cared about, even if the player didn't).
And if Shep didn't care about the people of the galaxy, why bother saving them?
#357
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:21
Jenova65
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No.
For a few reasons, the main ones being - the leak, the demo and the fact that told us they wanted to pull at our heartstrings. We already knew that the child *died* because of a big mouthed reporter and the leak, which irritated me. It was in the demo and so was never going to have the impact it should have done in the game. I don't like being overtly manipulated to cry, it should just be as a result of good writing - There is a scene in DA II that never makes me cry that should do, because it felt like they were trying to make me cry.
I cried for Thane, I cried buckets for Mordin and you don't even want to know about how much I cried for Legion...... in those deaths I truly felt helpless... but the kid... just nothing... but then my own daughter has faced death, so some pretend kid doesn't really have the same impact as it might otherwise, you know.
For a few reasons, the main ones being - the leak, the demo and the fact that told us they wanted to pull at our heartstrings. We already knew that the child *died* because of a big mouthed reporter and the leak, which irritated me. It was in the demo and so was never going to have the impact it should have done in the game. I don't like being overtly manipulated to cry, it should just be as a result of good writing - There is a scene in DA II that never makes me cry that should do, because it felt like they were trying to make me cry.
I cried for Thane, I cried buckets for Mordin and you don't even want to know about how much I cried for Legion...... in those deaths I truly felt helpless... but the kid... just nothing... but then my own daughter has faced death, so some pretend kid doesn't really have the same impact as it might otherwise, you know.
#358
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:23
ThatDancingTurian
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I like kids. I felt bad when he died, even though I could practically hear the devs going "NOW CRY! CRY!" as I watched it.
But the dream sequence was too far into heavy-handed territory. It never made me sad, although as someone who is easily scared the creepy shadows and music did spook me. Once I realized nothing was going to jump out at me, I just started getting annoyed at the slo-mo. By the third dream I was just like, "UGH, COME ON ALREADY..."
But the dream sequence was too far into heavy-handed territory. It never made me sad, although as someone who is easily scared the creepy shadows and music did spook me. Once I realized nothing was going to jump out at me, I just started getting annoyed at the slo-mo. By the third dream I was just like, "UGH, COME ON ALREADY..."
Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 24 mars 2012 - 10:25 .
#359
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:24
d-boy15
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for me, the dream sequence is one of the bad thing in ME3.
It's not fun when I have to follow the kid I met only 1 minutes in slowmotion in somekind of
dark forest to get the cutscene that I not even know what it mean...
the kid death scene feel forced, why shepard can't get over it? I mean he just sacrifice the
whole batarian system, leave his friend die on virmire but depress after see a kid die?
It's not fun when I have to follow the kid I met only 1 minutes in slowmotion in somekind of
dark forest to get the cutscene that I not even know what it mean...
the kid death scene feel forced, why shepard can't get over it? I mean he just sacrifice the
whole batarian system, leave his friend die on virmire but depress after see a kid die?
Modifié par d-boy15, 24 mars 2012 - 10:27 .
#360
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:26
GuardianAngel470
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Evil Minion wrote...
Bluumberry wrote...
Evil Minion wrote...
*sigh*
The child represented all of the people that Shep couldn't save.
It wasn't meant to get you teary-eyed.
Maybe, but it doesn't come across right when the majority of players don't care about the kid. My Shepard for example would have been seeing her dead squadmates or current crewmates in danger.
He wasn't a literal "kid."
He was just a symbol of all the people Shep couldn't save (which he cared about, even if the player didn't).
And if Shep didn't care about the people of the galaxy, why bother saving them?
Here's the thing: Shepard is supposed to care about that kid, but fans have all the reason in the world not to. It was always a failed attempt at emotional appeal on Bioware's part and was so obvious in this capacity. Mordin's death was powerful for more reasons than the fact that it was Mordin. It was just a very well done sequence that fit logically for that character.
By contrast that kid was forced. Players had no reason to care about him other than the fact that he was a kid which basically means that Bioware created a character-less child and then killed it just to try and elicit an emotional reaction.
It was an extremely obvious manipulation that was poorly executed ("you can't help me.") and for many it failed because of that.
So it ultimately doesn't matter if Shepard cares about the kid, we the audience didn't.
#361
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:29
FeralEwok
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Most Commander Shepards have gone through some pretty horrible stuff.
-Colonist Shepard saw his/her entire family, friends, and community massacred as a teen.
-Sole Survivor Shepard had his/her whole unit killed in a horrible fashion on Akuse, and even later works for the organization responsible for the attack.
-Ruthless Shepard could live with the horrible guilt sneaking up on them that they executed prisoners.
This is all before you even play Eden Prime.
Since then they have felt the trauma of witness dozens of worlds ravaged, killed hordes of Geth, mercs, assassins, gangs, husks, and reapers. Shepard has lost numerous soldiers/allies (can lose even most of the suicide mission team) under THEIR command. Shepard made the tough calls that resulted in those peoples deaths...he/she even had a blatant chose Kaidan or Ashley to die scenario.
Oh yeah Shepard also DIED....yeah that's right...died! An event like that could be a scource for some anxiety or a couple of bad dreams, but Shepard just seems to shrug off all that.
There is so much that happens in Mass Effect that could or should have broken any normal person. Shepard did indeed show a more human side throughout the entire game, but the most forced emotions from them came from the use of the child as a symbol for what is at stake and what has begun to burden Shepard.
I guess it could have been the breaking point for Shepard watching that kid die. The problem is that in a world, where video game players are use to seeing some pretty horrid things, players basically become immune to such things. As a device for making Shepard break it could make sense, but will bring little emotion from most audience members because there is not a strong connection.
Had Shepard's past come back to him/her in the dreams, reminding them (and the player) all the horrible things that have happened, all the hardships they had to endure, and the loss of friends (characters the players did have a connection with) would have worked a heck of a lot better for me.
Some of the hardest moments in the game ALL involve characters I've come to know and love. Mordin dying trying to cure the genophage, Legion, all the final goodbyes, those hit me deep down. The kid did nothing to me.
-Colonist Shepard saw his/her entire family, friends, and community massacred as a teen.
-Sole Survivor Shepard had his/her whole unit killed in a horrible fashion on Akuse, and even later works for the organization responsible for the attack.
-Ruthless Shepard could live with the horrible guilt sneaking up on them that they executed prisoners.
This is all before you even play Eden Prime.
Since then they have felt the trauma of witness dozens of worlds ravaged, killed hordes of Geth, mercs, assassins, gangs, husks, and reapers. Shepard has lost numerous soldiers/allies (can lose even most of the suicide mission team) under THEIR command. Shepard made the tough calls that resulted in those peoples deaths...he/she even had a blatant chose Kaidan or Ashley to die scenario.
Oh yeah Shepard also DIED....yeah that's right...died! An event like that could be a scource for some anxiety or a couple of bad dreams, but Shepard just seems to shrug off all that.
There is so much that happens in Mass Effect that could or should have broken any normal person. Shepard did indeed show a more human side throughout the entire game, but the most forced emotions from them came from the use of the child as a symbol for what is at stake and what has begun to burden Shepard.
I guess it could have been the breaking point for Shepard watching that kid die. The problem is that in a world, where video game players are use to seeing some pretty horrid things, players basically become immune to such things. As a device for making Shepard break it could make sense, but will bring little emotion from most audience members because there is not a strong connection.
Had Shepard's past come back to him/her in the dreams, reminding them (and the player) all the horrible things that have happened, all the hardships they had to endure, and the loss of friends (characters the players did have a connection with) would have worked a heck of a lot better for me.
Some of the hardest moments in the game ALL involve characters I've come to know and love. Mordin dying trying to cure the genophage, Legion, all the final goodbyes, those hit me deep down. The kid did nothing to me.
#362
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:31
Cody211282
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They did nothing but pull me out of the game.
I roleplay a paragon Shepard that takes care of his crew and tries to get everyone out alive, so having the VS there instead of the damn kid might have worked. But as they have it now that kid does nothing but force me to frolic in the woods after him.
It's going to be intresting how pissy this makes my She**** shep, I fear a few races will be wiped out because of those damn segments.
I roleplay a paragon Shepard that takes care of his crew and tries to get everyone out alive, so having the VS there instead of the damn kid might have worked. But as they have it now that kid does nothing but force me to frolic in the woods after him.
It's going to be intresting how pissy this makes my She**** shep, I fear a few races will be wiped out because of those damn segments.
#363
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:32
Hendrik.III
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No. If they had the kid in full panic, crying for his mother - being furious with Shep for letting him die - and seeing him consumed by flames instead of just standing there with a neutral expression... that might have evoked something.
Now it's just not a nightmare. The kid has no emotion, Shepard's guilt should reflect in the kid's reaction.
Now it's just not a nightmare. The kid has no emotion, Shepard's guilt should reflect in the kid's reaction.
#364
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:35
Hathur
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I think the point is being missed... the child wasn't necessarily supposed to have an impact on the player... it was there to have an impact on Shepard, to help explain to us (the players) that Shepard is finally feeling the burden of having seen so much death, loss, destruction.
The child's function wasn't to make us sad for the child... it was there to make us empathize more with Shepard and appreciate her / his horrible burdens.
The child is merely a narrative tool and was utilized properly in that regard.
The child's function wasn't to make us sad for the child... it was there to make us empathize more with Shepard and appreciate her / his horrible burdens.
The child is merely a narrative tool and was utilized properly in that regard.
Modifié par Hathur, 24 mars 2012 - 10:36 .
#365
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:49
TekFanX
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I found the dreams flat and useless regarding to what we've got so far.
A burning child...in a forest. Really?
Dreams, good or bad, often relate to places someone is common with, especially from the early phase of your childhood.
Shepard was:
-Raised on Ships, so I'd rather would have said he/she would probably have nightmares of dim-lit ship-corridors and the kid getting spaced. Probably Shepard didn't see many forests.
-Living alone in the streets of a mega-city, so a scenario like london with the kid getting killed by a reaper-ray or a collapsing piece of debris would befit a nightmare. As far as I remember, there weren't supposed to be many forests in earth's mega-cities in ME.
-one of the view survivors of a slaver-attack on his/her colony when Shepard was a child. That's the only option where I think a forest would make some kind of sense.
In Homefront the parents of a small child were executed and the child ran to them, crying and trying to wake them up. That was terrible, that made really hate the enemy-group in that game(though I never played the game). Even a short gameplay-scene from a trailer made me more emotionally engaged than these dreams.
The dreams in ME3...only the voices of the fallen ones engaged me emotionally...the whole point of that child was way too much of a flat stereo-type to for a dream-scene to make me feel anything.
Why couldn't we get that girl from the "take earth back" trailer?
I found her terrified look at the reaper after her playful ladybug-chase more emotional engaging than the boy ever was.
The only thing these dreams make sense for me would be the indoctrination-theory, otherwise I don't really feel anything about that child.
And I wouldn't say someone is lacking emotions because he/she doesn't feel anything towards the child in the dreams. There are a lot of scenes in ME1,2 and 3 that surely will have engaged you.
A burning child...in a forest. Really?
Dreams, good or bad, often relate to places someone is common with, especially from the early phase of your childhood.
Shepard was:
-Raised on Ships, so I'd rather would have said he/she would probably have nightmares of dim-lit ship-corridors and the kid getting spaced. Probably Shepard didn't see many forests.
-Living alone in the streets of a mega-city, so a scenario like london with the kid getting killed by a reaper-ray or a collapsing piece of debris would befit a nightmare. As far as I remember, there weren't supposed to be many forests in earth's mega-cities in ME.
-one of the view survivors of a slaver-attack on his/her colony when Shepard was a child. That's the only option where I think a forest would make some kind of sense.
In Homefront the parents of a small child were executed and the child ran to them, crying and trying to wake them up. That was terrible, that made really hate the enemy-group in that game(though I never played the game). Even a short gameplay-scene from a trailer made me more emotionally engaged than these dreams.
The dreams in ME3...only the voices of the fallen ones engaged me emotionally...the whole point of that child was way too much of a flat stereo-type to for a dream-scene to make me feel anything.
Why couldn't we get that girl from the "take earth back" trailer?
I found her terrified look at the reaper after her playful ladybug-chase more emotional engaging than the boy ever was.
The only thing these dreams make sense for me would be the indoctrination-theory, otherwise I don't really feel anything about that child.
And I wouldn't say someone is lacking emotions because he/she doesn't feel anything towards the child in the dreams. There are a lot of scenes in ME1,2 and 3 that surely will have engaged you.
#366
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:51
Cody211282
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Hathur wrote...
I think the point is being missed... the child wasn't necessarily supposed to have an impact on the player... it was there to have an impact on Shepard, to help explain to us (the players) that Shepard is finally feeling the burden of having seen so much death, loss, destruction.
The child's function wasn't to make us sad for the child... it was there to make us empathize more with Shepard and appreciate her / his horrible burdens.
The child is merely a narrative tool and was utilized properly in that regard.
I thought the point of sheaprd was for him to be an avitar for us. You know because this is a RolePlayingGame.
#367
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:54
iamthedave3
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Hathur wrote...
I think the point is being missed... the child wasn't necessarily supposed to have an impact on the player... it was there to have an impact on Shepard, to help explain to us (the players) that Shepard is finally feeling the burden of having seen so much death, loss, destruction.
The child's function wasn't to make us sad for the child... it was there to make us empathize more with Shepard and appreciate her / his horrible burdens.
The child is merely a narrative tool and was utilized properly in that regard.
Forced symbolism is still forced.
It also didn't work in most cases, for the aforementioned reason. A random child we've never met makes considerably less sense than the Virmire Survivor, who was sacrificed by Shepherd's orders. Of course they need the kid in order to have the starchild at the end. SYMBOLISM!!!!!!!
It really is just lazy.
It's the 'awwww, an innocent child, how tragic' card. The problem is that it's never worked in any medium on anyone who reads/watches a lot of sci-fi, because those people will have seen this card played a hundred times, played by writers who can't come up with anything better, distinctive or unique to their own story.
Modifié par iamthedave3, 24 mars 2012 - 10:57 .
#368
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 11:03
Joccaren
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Hated anything to do with the kid. The dreams were really annoying too. You couldn't even run in them. I only have limited time to play your games Bioware, I have a life. I don't want to spend at least 5 minutes of that time walking around slowly for no apparent reason.
#369
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 11:05
Cody211282
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Joccaren wrote...
Hated anything to do with the kid. The dreams were really annoying too. You couldn't even run in them. I only have limited time to play your games Bioware, I have a life. I don't want to spend at least 5 minutes of that time walking around slowly for no apparent reason.
You just don't understand man, it's just so deeeeeeeeeeep, like it's art and stuff.
#370
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 11:05
TekFanX
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Hathur wrote...
I think the point is being missed... the child wasn't necessarily supposed to have an impact on the player... it was there to have an impact on Shepard, to help explain to us (the players) that Shepard is finally feeling the burden of having seen so much death, loss, destruction.
The child's function wasn't to make us sad for the child... it was there to make us empathize more with Shepard and appreciate her / his horrible burdens.
The child is merely a narrative tool and was utilized properly in that regard.
I just saw your post and though you have a good point, I have to disagree with you.
It's just my oppinion though;)
The child may be a token for Shepards emotional stress, but I don't think it's done properly.
I could relate with Shepard a hundred times more in ME1, when he/she just slid down the locker of the Normandy SR-1 and sat on the ground, because he/she didn't know what to do. Then Ashley/Kaidan comes and pulls Shepard back up on his/her feet.
The single child...well.
As I mentioned before: It's too much of a stereo-type in the media.
I could have related to Shepard, if we would have seen the eyes of the surviving mother, haunting him/her, because he/she couldn't save her child.
#371
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 11:07
Chloe_W1971
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I didn't see much point to the dreams or the kid, really. When I played the first dream sequence, I thought something along the lines of "Well, this is interesting... Oh, my, he's running away... Bugger, where did the little **** go now... Ah, found him... Aw, crap, he's burning... My, that was a tad pointless, wasn't it."
My thoughts about the second dream sequence were "Oh, no, not again!" and from then on out for the last sequence(s) - I honestly don't remember if there were three or four - All that went through my head was "Why!? Why do I have to go over pretty much the same pointless exercise again and again and again?!"
Or in short, I thought the kid and the dream sequences were a hamfisted way of driving home the sense of loss that anyone who's visited the Citadel between missions had experienced in abundance anyway. There were much better ways of giving you this sense of loss and sacrifice, mind you. The girl at the refugee camp talking to the Turian C-Sec guy about her parents who'd be arriving any minute now, the injured people at the hospital who just kept coming in, the woman at the embassy reception who wanted to get her daughter to safety and so on. The dream sequences were just unnecessary. The first one was annoying but largely OK, but keeping on hammering me with them again and again and again was simply hamfisted emotional manipulation at its worst.
Also, I don't care about children in general at the best of times. I usually find them mildly annoying, but the use of this kid in the game takes the cake.
My thoughts about the second dream sequence were "Oh, no, not again!" and from then on out for the last sequence(s) - I honestly don't remember if there were three or four - All that went through my head was "Why!? Why do I have to go over pretty much the same pointless exercise again and again and again?!"
Or in short, I thought the kid and the dream sequences were a hamfisted way of driving home the sense of loss that anyone who's visited the Citadel between missions had experienced in abundance anyway. There were much better ways of giving you this sense of loss and sacrifice, mind you. The girl at the refugee camp talking to the Turian C-Sec guy about her parents who'd be arriving any minute now, the injured people at the hospital who just kept coming in, the woman at the embassy reception who wanted to get her daughter to safety and so on. The dream sequences were just unnecessary. The first one was annoying but largely OK, but keeping on hammering me with them again and again and again was simply hamfisted emotional manipulation at its worst.
Also, I don't care about children in general at the best of times. I usually find them mildly annoying, but the use of this kid in the game takes the cake.
#372
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 11:10
Cuddieee
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As others have noted, I believe the child was more for first-time players. Someone new to the franchise will probably have more of a reaction to a child dying/burning/whatever than a random previous squadmember that they don't have the slightest clue about.
Ever since I saw the first video showing the kid I despised him. If they put some effort into it, I might have thought differently, but as it is, it just feels incredibly forced and completely ruined my immersion. Then Starchild...oh god. I'll be honest, on my first playthrough I completely forgot what the Starchild had said about each "choice"; I was too busy thinking how incredibly terrible it is that this kid--who I abhorred throughout the game--is explaining, if you can call it that, the ending.
It's the same thing that happened with Battlefield 3. The established fanbase is going to buy the game regardless, focus on reeling in new customers. Now both games are getting backlash from the fanbase they took for granted. Ah, EA.
/rant
Ever since I saw the first video showing the kid I despised him. If they put some effort into it, I might have thought differently, but as it is, it just feels incredibly forced and completely ruined my immersion. Then Starchild...oh god. I'll be honest, on my first playthrough I completely forgot what the Starchild had said about each "choice"; I was too busy thinking how incredibly terrible it is that this kid--who I abhorred throughout the game--is explaining, if you can call it that, the ending.
It's the same thing that happened with Battlefield 3. The established fanbase is going to buy the game regardless, focus on reeling in new customers. Now both games are getting backlash from the fanbase they took for granted. Ah, EA.
/rant
Modifié par Cuddieee, 24 mars 2012 - 11:11 .
#373
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 11:11
Dark Specie
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I personally didn't like the dreams to be honest. Having my Shepard run around in slow-motion got really annoying, I tell you.
#374
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 11:27
Devi Serene
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The scenes would have been much stronger using a LI, Anderson or your dead squadmates. Just because he's a child (who was stupid enough not to follow Shepard in the first place), it does not make me emotionally attached to him.
#375
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 11:29
iamthedave3
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It is also worth noting that the kid VA is one of the worst in the entire series, which doesn't help any. 'Oh noes, the animated block of wood is burning! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!'
Modifié par iamthedave3, 24 mars 2012 - 11:30 .
