261 réponses à ce sujet

[genocidal villain]

I don't. It's convincing but still just a theory until Bioware specifically says that it is true which I hope not. So for now it is just a poorly written ending. For people who believe the theory it is still just a theory not a fact.

[devSin]

Dreogan wrote...

By the same token, there is a possibility Shepard's space hamster (I named mine Boobles) is a spy for Harbinger.

Just what was he doing down in engineering, anyway?

[ShepardTheHopeful]

We all know shepard has been blasted by object rho, talked to reapers, fought reapers, blew up a reaper, went inside a reaper, yet NONE of this lead to even a remote inkling that indoctrination would occur. Hell we never even see any circumstantial evidence he's indoctrinated at all until the illusive man shows up and the little black claws and whispers start. I still say the dream is survivors guild and the shadows in there are just people he didn't know while the kid represents the one damn person he could've saved and didn't. So I can't help but theorize Shepard is immune that he's...different. It would explain why Harbringer is so interested maybe he wanted to study it or just control it because he couldn't do it as easily. Hell maybe he just set his laser to stun and went for a jog around the galaxy before he decides to come back and murder everyone. I don't really know. But either way I just don't see indoctrination working on Shepard now if it hadn't the other 10000 opportunities.

[Liber320]

I don't beleive Bioware planned Indoc Theory, but I do hope they pick it up and run with it, as it is the easiest and (imo) most interesting way to fix the endings without a complete retcon.

[Dreogan]

devSin wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

By the same token, there is a possibility Shepard's space hamster (I named mine Boobles) is a spy for Harbinger.

Just what was he doing down in engineering, anyway?

Sabotage.

[Phearmonger]

Vandalisme wrote...

uh-oh0331 wrote...

I dont want to believe it but there are some convincing videos on youtube. Also someone mentioned that Bioware apparently wanted to do a segment where Shep gets indoctrinated but apparently they couldnt do that (technical difficulties/restrictions). They said that they saw this on the "final hours app". I just wish that Bioware would release an official statement already, the speculation and plot holes are driving me crazy.

My thoughts exactly until i bought the final hours app myself and saw this spreadsheet : 
http://i.imgur.com/B3lTt.jpg 

http://i.imgur.com/VElWC.jpg 

im counting that as evidence against indoc. "crucible will cause galactic dark age"

Crucible will cause "galactic dark age" as it says is a quotation of the Prothean VI as shown by the header, not a statement by the spreadsheet maker or developer. But IT theory doesn't preclude the crucible from causing a galactic dark age if used. It just states that the crucible hasn't actually been used yet. The vision of relays blowing up could possibly serve as a warning to Shep not to use the thing and find a different solution, because the old solution won't work anymore.

[Priviums]

it srsly adds up to indoc throughout the whole game. but with biowares latest posts i doesnt seem like it was intended. with this new content coming up that they just promised i hope that theyll make the ending indoc. that way they dont have to change anything, just add more content after the ending choices. take control or synthesis youll end up corrupted and fully indoctrinated, take destroy youll break harbingers will and wake up on earth again like that cutscene, from there the new ending should take place.

[Cgrissom]

I do not believe the Indoctrination Theory. I have nothing against the idea or those who support it, but I don't believe it myself.

[jarrettwold]

Dreogan wrote...

devSin wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

By the same token, there is a possibility Shepard's space hamster (I named mine Boobles) is a spy for Harbinger.

Just what was he doing down in engineering, anyway?

Sabotage.

I firmly support an ending where the space hamster is really orchestrating the reapers.   They're so cute and small, it puts them beyond reproach.  Space hamster was on all of the Normandys the entire time.  He listened in and knew about every decision in all three games.  

(just trying my hand at thinking like an indoc theory fan )  

Modifié par jarrettwold, 23 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[jarrettwold]

cavs25 wrote...
 Also if it was intended Bioware needs to get punched in the face for not putting an ending in the game.

No punching.  Puppies and hugs? Yes. Punching no.

[Reth Shepherd]

jarrettwold wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

devSin wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

By the same token, there is a possibility Shepard's space hamster (I named mine Boobles) is a spy for Harbinger.

Just what was he doing down in engineering, anyway?

Sabotage.

I firmly support an ending where the space hamster is really orchestrating the reapers.   They're so cute and small, it puts them beyond reproach.  Space hamster was on all of the Normandys the entire time.  He listened in and knew about every decision in all three games.  

(just trying my hand at thinking like an indoc theory fan )  

TWO games! You buy him in ME2. Lol, that said, your theory makes about as much sense as the current endings.

jarrettwold wrote...
No punching.  Puppies and hugs? Yes. Punching no.

Uh, what? Puppies and hugs for not putting endings in the game? Am I missing something?

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 23 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[jameshawking]

Hell no I'm not.

But $50 says that BioWare will take it and run with it as an excuse for their crappy-ass ending.

People who support it will feel vindicated and those who don't will see the layer of BS that was caked onto the Game if and when it gets taken into canon

[jarrettwold]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

jarrettwold wrote...


I firmly support an ending where the space hamster is really orchestrating the reapers.   They're so cute and small, it puts them beyond reproach.  Space hamster was on all of the Normandys the entire time.  He listened in and knew about every decision in all three games.  

(just trying my hand at thinking like an indoc theory fan )  

TWO games! You buy him in ME2. Lol, that said, your theory makes about as much sense as the current endings.

Uh, what? Puppies and hugs for not putting endings in the game? Am I missing something?

Or did space hamster make you purchase him?   Was he following you all along in a Space Hamster spaceship?

As far as puppies and hugs.  I've seen so much rage directed at Bioware at this point, that puppies and hugs along with some generous donations of Tim Hortons would work much better.   I haven't peeked at other threads, but this one has been remarkably, hrm, not tin-foil hat inducing.  At times with levity even.  

A welcome relief as a fan, and probably a welcome relief if anyone from Bioware is reading.  It's also a welcome relief to type things like this: I think Bioware should turn the forums pink, as it has been demonstrably shown through study that pink mellows people out.

Without 50 people going "we're being SERIOUS here"

In all honesty, the more I think about this... it's going to require a patch and DLC if they want to go back and foreshadow whatever the alternate ending would be.  If they push out an alternate ending.  So the one thing I'm going to start imploring people, as I move forward, is patience.  I would be floored if they have all of this done by April.  Realistically at least a few months, if they do it.  Until then, I would totally buy an Omega DLC.

Modifié par jarrettwold, 23 mars 2012 - 06:31 .

[leapingmonkeys]

The ID theory is merely the desperate rationalizing of a collapsing belief system.

That is not to say that if Bioware wakes up and realizes that they have to create a proper and not-completely-nonsensical ending that they may jump on the ID wagon. But I do not believe it was ever their intent to do so.

The ID theory is missing too many parts. First and foremost, ID is not some rapid-fire effect produced by getting hit by a laser. It takes an extended exposure. All prior information about ID indicates that the subjects experience head aches, get a feeling of being watched, etc. None of which happened to Shepard. All the prior experiences we have with ID resulted in the victims wanting to be near the source of the ID. There was no evidence of such behavior from Shepard. The last VI we ran into could detect ID victims, and did not respond to Shepard the same way as Kai.

And to repeat myself, ID is not accomplished by being hit by a laser.

It is simply poor writing at the end. It has to be put into the same bucket as all the other plot holes.  For example, if the Reapers were able to take the Citadel in the blink of an eye with no resistance at the end of ME3 why didn't they simply shutdown the mass relays (ala ME1), or fly it off into deep space in order to protect it against the Alliance Fleet? Heck, why didn't they simply destroy it? They clearly did not need the Citadel to return from deep space (despite the assertion in ME1 that it was a gateway to bring the Reapers back), so why not destroy it? It simply made no sense to leave the mass relays operational and fly it to Earth when the Reapers knew that it was somehow part of the weapon that could destroy them. Just one of the many, many examples of how the plot simply fell apart at the end because they were trying to force an ending that makes no sense.

Modifié par leapingmonkeys, 23 mars 2012 - 06:44 .

[Reth Shepherd]

jarrettwold wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

jarrettwold wrote...


I firmly support an ending where the space hamster is really orchestrating the reapers.   They're so cute and small, it puts them beyond reproach.  Space hamster was on all of the Normandys the entire time.  He listened in and knew about every decision in all three games.  

(just trying my hand at thinking like an indoc theory fan )  

TWO games! You buy him in ME2. Lol, that said, your theory makes about as much sense as the current endings.

Uh, what? Puppies and hugs for not putting endings in the game? Am I missing something?

Or did space hamster make you purchase him?   Was he following you all along in a Space Hamster spaceship?

As far as puppies and hugs.  I've seen so much rage directed at Bioware at this point, that puppies and hugs along with some generous donations of Tim Hortons would work much better.   I haven't peeked at other threads, but this one has been remarkably, hrm, not tin-foil hat inducing.  At times with levity even.  

A welcome relief as a fan, and probably a welcome relief if anyone from Bioware is reading.  It's also a welcome relief to type things like this: I think Bioware should turn the forums pink, as it has been demonstrably shown through study that pink mellows people out.

Without 50 people going "we're being SERIOUS here"

In all honesty, the more I think about this... it's going to require a patch and DLC if they want to go back and foreshadow whatever the alternate ending would be.  If they push out an alternate ending.  So the one thing I'm going to start imploring people, as I move forward, is patience.  I would be floored if they have all of this done by April.  Realistically at least a few months, if they do it.  Until then, I would totally buy an Omega DLC.

I'd be messing with my monitor color settings SO fast! I can't stand that color! (Female and proud of it, for the record. I just happen to despise pink.) Blue is actually my 'calm-down' switch.

As for how long it will take, I don't plan on buying any DLC until I actually see an ending download. Reason? Remember when Wrexx refused to help the turians unless a cure for the genophage was released FIRST? He wasn't being a *****, he was working under the sound hypothesis that the odds of GETTING said cure were far better if the actions came in said order. Same idea.

Also, and this is rather depressing, but I'm one of the people that the current ending hit pretty hard. What point is there in buying new DLC if I don't want to play it because I don't want to play the game? I have my head-canon, but I don't need to log into the game to access it.

[IST]

Shameless plug without reading previous 10 pages - GO THE INDOCTRINATION THEORY!!

woo hoooo!!

see ya.

[leapingmonkeys]

jarrettwold wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

devSin wrote...

Dreogan wrote...

By the same token, there is a possibility Shepard's space hamster (I named mine Boobles) is a spy for Harbinger.

Just what was he doing down in engineering, anyway?

Sabotage.

I firmly support an ending where the space hamster is really orchestrating the reapers.   They're so cute and small, it puts them beyond reproach.  Space hamster was on all of the Normandys the entire time.  He listened in and knew about every decision in all three games.  

(just trying my hand at thinking like an indoc theory fan )  

I think the space hamster was the force controllig the Reapers myself... ;-)

[Joccaren]

I'm not with it. I don't like it personally. Had it been done originally? Masterful. Done now? A cop out.

[jarrettwold]

Reth Shepherd wrote...
I'd be messing with my monitor color settings SO fast! I can't stand that color! (Female and proud of it, for the record. I just happen to despise pink.) Blue is actually my 'calm-down' switch.

As for how long it will take, I don't plan on buying any DLC until I actually see an ending download. Reason? Remember when Wrexx refused to help the turians unless a cure for the genophage was released FIRST? He wasn't being a *****, he was working under the sound hypothesis that the odds of GETTING said cure were far better if the actions came in said order. Same idea.

Also, and this is rather depressing, but I'm one of the people that the current ending hit pretty hard. What point is there in buying new DLC if I don't want to play it because I don't want to play the game? I have my head-canon, but I don't need to log into the game to access it.

Maybe I can use greasemonkey to make the forum appear pink with rainbows and unicorns.  I'm a guy proud of it.  But, I love absurdity. 

My only issue with how long it's going to take is that they already had a pre-defined DLC roadmap.  I would imagine that a good chunk of stuff is ready or in testing.  So do they delay the DLC that's done and then just dump all of it on us?  I doubt it.  So you're going to see some DLC that's finished before any possible alternate ending.  I'm worried about another wave of people freaking out about that.

It also depends on how they're planning their year of additional content.  Is that dependent on sales of DLC or is it budgeted for in advance... so if further development is predicated on DLC sales, it would be hideously counterproductive to tell people not to buy DLC.  

The ending of the game hit me hard as well.  I was effusive and very rough in my commentary on what I liked and didn't like about the game.  Popped on the forums here, within a couple of hours of finishing the game.  Maybe not the best time to write something constructive.  But, a couple of things happened.  I watched how bad and nasty some of the threads got, which left me kind of shell shocked and angry at fellow fans.  I also spent time talking with everyone about the game.  In terms of art, what all of this means big picture in a new medium.

So I've dramatically softened how I feel about Bioware and particularly the people working for them.  Mass Effect was their baby, they worked on it and nudged it along... Then it was released and 50,000+ actively went after them.  I genuinely feel bad about the human impact this is causing them.

Moving back on topic though.  I really, really hope they don't go with indoc.  Will I be enraged if they do? Nope.  Is it going to be better than the endings we have, yes.  But, ultimately I can scribble up my ideas all I want and compared to an actual author or writer they would suck.  It's not my field, or career.  So in that sense, I want broad strokes and brushes given to the guys at Bioware.  I don't want them to take the 50 bullet point storylines or massively detailed flowcharts and just bolt it on.  I want to see something great come out, and if it doesn't happen the second time around, they get kudos from me for trying.  

[Reth Shepherd]

jarrettwold wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...
I'd be messing with my monitor color settings SO fast! I can't stand that color! (Female and proud of it, for the record. I just happen to despise pink.) Blue is actually my 'calm-down' switch.

As for how long it will take, I don't plan on buying any DLC until I actually see an ending download. Reason? Remember when Wrexx refused to help the turians unless a cure for the genophage was released FIRST? He wasn't being a *****, he was working under the sound hypothesis that the odds of GETTING said cure were far better if the actions came in said order. Same idea.

Also, and this is rather depressing, but I'm one of the people that the current ending hit pretty hard. What point is there in buying new DLC if I don't want to play it because I don't want to play the game? I have my head-canon, but I don't need to log into the game to access it.

Maybe I can use greasemonkey to make the forum appear pink with rainbows and unicorns.  I'm a guy proud of it.  But, I love absurdity. 

My only issue with how long it's going to take is that they already had a pre-defined DLC roadmap.  I would imagine that a good chunk of stuff is ready or in testing.  So do they delay the DLC that's done and then just dump all of it on us?  I doubt it.  So you're going to see some DLC that's finished before any possible alternate ending.  I'm worried about another wave of people freaking out about that.

It also depends on how they're planning their year of additional content.  Is that dependent on sales of DLC or is it budgeted for in advance... so if further development is predicated on DLC sales, it would be hideously counterproductive to tell people not to buy DLC.  

The ending of the game hit me hard as well.  I was effusive and very rough in my commentary on what I liked and didn't like about the game.  Popped on the forums here, within a couple of hours of finishing the game.  Maybe not the best time to write something constructive.  But, a couple of things happened.  I watched how bad and nasty some of the threads got, which left me kind of shell shocked and angry at fellow fans.  I also spent time talking with everyone about the game.  In terms of art, what all of this means big picture in a new medium.

So I've dramatically softened how I feel about Bioware and particularly the people working for them.  Mass Effect was their baby, they worked on it and nudged it along... Then it was released and 50,000+ actively went after them.  I genuinely feel bad about the human impact this is causing them.

Moving back on topic though.  I really, really hope they don't go with indoc.  Will I be enraged if they do? Nope.  Is it going to be better than the endings we have, yes.  But, ultimately I can scribble up my ideas all I want and compared to an actual author or writer they would suck.  It's not my field, or career.  So in that sense, I want broad strokes and brushes given to the guys at Bioware.  I don't want them to take the 50 bullet point storylines or massively detailed flowcharts and just bolt it on.  I want to see something great come out, and if it doesn't happen the second time around, they get kudos from me for trying.  

Fair enough! As an amateur writer I do know what it's like to have some part of my writing not very well received; but to have THAT MANY people hate it? I'd probably be pretty ticked at the world. That said, if it was because I epically messed up, I really hope I'd face up, apologize, and correct the error. So far I think I've done pretty well with the small issues that have cropped up. Unfortunately, I suspect that certain people at you-know-where haven't reached that stage yet. Comparing the response to the book furor to the ending furor, there's a huge difference. They apologized for the book and said they'd fix it. With the game, however, they still mostly seem to be sticking to the 'this is art and shouldn't be changed, only clarified' stance. That has me pretty worried, tbh, and not just for the obvious reason.

Bioware has a doubly hard battle right now. Not only are they under pressure to produce something akin to the ending that should have come with the game in the first place, NOW they are competing with gamer head-canon. MANY upset fans created their own versions of the ending rather than face the train wreck. I am among them. Nothing wrong with that. HOWEVER! People are naturally attatched to their own creations. Add to that the fact that this is something created in anger and disappointment, and fertilized by a lack of answers from Bioware, and the result is something clung near and dear to the average gamer's heart. I might even liken it to a favorite stuffed animal. It was a source of comfort in a cold and harsh time, and that makes it harder than usual to set aside. If Bioware produces a truly epic ending, then I believe that most people will set aside their head-canon and embrace the new ending. However, a 'meh', or worse yet, simply expanding on the Starkid current ending is just going to tick people off even more. That much more trust is going to be lost. Why believe in Bioware when they 'betrayed' us twice, AND we already have our own, guaranteed-not-to-leave-us source of comfort right here? Bioware has produced some amazing works. I DO NOT want them to fall! I'm just worried about the consequences if the ending DLC isn't beyond mindblowing.

As for the DLC and further development...that's an interesting point. Again, I don't want Bioware to fall, but at the same time, I don't particularly want to spend however much on a DLC that isn't going to be bringing me joy. I guess it depends on how much they push around the DLC schedule. If Omega gets released, followed by the Ending, and only after that, whatever else they had planned, I think they can survive people like me waiting to purchase both at roughly the same time. If they were planning on releasing it later than that, however...I don't know what the reaction's going to be. Guess we're going to have to wait for April and see.

How did it come to this?

[Maria Caliban]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

Please tell me there are some people who aren't on the Indoctrination bandwagon

There are some people who aren't on the Indoctrination "bandwagon."

[Stryl]

While I find the Indoctrination Theory fascinating, I am in agreement with others in this thread that had it been done intentionally, it would have been awesome. At this point, I do not believe it would have the desired effect. It could certainly explain things, but I feel as though it would have had far more impact if this had occurred within the original game.

So, I am not on the bandwagon, but I do find it fascinating. Honestly, as long as issues with the ending are explained, I will be happy, indoctrination theory or not.

[Spectre-00N7]

John Locke N7 wrote...

its obviously not true. anyone one who believes it is just stupid

Yes, because people with an opinion are stupid.

I don't believe in it, but I'm glad people have this idea that they can believe in.  If it allows them to enjoy the game more, I am happy for them.

[Ryven]

I would LOVE to be on the bandwagon. At least then there would be hope. But I honestly don't think Bioware would shoot themselves in the foot like that, by releasing an incomplete game. I think they just ran up against the clock and rushed the end so it would have enough "speculation" for all of us.

[liggy002]

I think it would be hilarious if Bioware came out with a DLC that confirmed the indoc theory was true. That would be a sight to see.