261 réponses à ce sujet

[LastFadingSmile]

Wagon rides give me motion sickness, but I understand why other people might want to ride them. Me, I'm just gonna sit by the side of the road until Joker swings by to pick me up, though.

[Dreogan]

Tyrzun wrote...

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

 Seriously it's not that great a theory a ton of time and effort was indeed made to it but there's too many other factors to deem it the best theory ever and that Bioware should do it. Am I seriously alone in NOT wanting the indoctrination theory to be the new ending? 

You are refusing the facts.  The IND ending says all the garbage you consider shouldn't be considered.  It's that simple.

Haribinger knocks your out 20 menters from the portal.
That is indispuatable and a fact.  

So, the logical thing is to start there.
You are knocked out in your full armor

You wake up wearing your "casual clothes" with a pistol with infinite ammo.

STOP, considering nothing else.  Do you think you can magically change clothes while knocked out?  No, no one esle does as well.

So, it proves right there you are NOT awake.

The only way to wake up is tell Harbinger AKA star kid you don't believe his lies and you still want the Reapers destroyed.

Guess what happens if you do that?

You wake up right where you were knocked out back in your armor.

The ending is THAT simple.  Everything in between being knocked out and waking up is Harbinger trying to get you to indoctrinate yourself into believe what Bioware spend 3 games telling you NOT to do, believe you can control them.  Just like Saren, Benezia, the prothean AI, and finally TIM.

It's not a theory because it is logical and it has ZERO holes in it which makes it the right answer.

However, if you didn't mentally prepare your mind, by knowing you have enough EMS to "win" the war you don't wake up anyways.  Harbingers will is too strong.

This indoctrination Harbinger pulls isn't the slow kind as many make cases for, that's all theory.  This is the other kind that is described as instant.  It's Harbingers last ditch effort to stop you and DEFEAT the alliance by watching you betray them.

And it's still irrelevant until Bioware announces concrete plans to integrate it directly into the storyline. The fact that the ending does not work along a "straight path" is a catastrophic failure of storytelling; entirely in contrast to every single strand of plot up until the end.

The ultimate hole is the lack of resolution. We are left with even less of an ending if we pick the indoctrination "interpretation."

When the options for interpreting the ending are to reject the ending or reject the reality of the ending, we are no longer speculating on the ending. We are speculating on the validity of the ending, the right for the ending to even exist. The ending, whether through indoctrination or through the straight-path interpretation, breaks the suspension of disbelief and violates the writer-reader contract.

Modifié par Dreogan, 23 mars 2012 - 02:44 .

[ShepardTheHopeful]

Lmaoboat wrote...

Not on it, wish I was. Sweet, blissful denial.

That made me laugh I'm right there with you Ignorance truely is bliss wish we could all just look at the indoctrination theory and think it makes perfect sense. But alas we are here questioning why the theory to the ending with plotholes has as many plotholes as the ending itself. 

Reaper: SHEPARD YOU ARE UNDER MY CONTROL
Shepard: Yes.....master
Reaper: I COMMAND YOU TO DESTROY US, TAKE COMPLETE CONTROL OF US, OR MERGE US WITH HUMANITY DESTROYING US AND MAKING YOU THE LEAD CONSCIOUSNESS ABUSING OUR SYNTHETIC ABILITIES!
Shepard:....umm....ok.

Ah those crazy reapers and their logic. 

[Malanek]

Naqey wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Naqey wrote...

you know, if it would be true, it would reduce the games 3 endings to 2 (you get indoctrinated and the reapers win, or you dont get indoctrinated and we dont know **** what happens)
so this is the reason why I dont think its true.
and I dont really think bioware would do that without at some point rubbing your face into it, like:
SEE WHAT WE DID THERE, THAT WAS OUR PLAN ALL ALONG, LOOK HOW CLEVER WE WERE. (no offense bioware, I love your games! even me3! except for the ending of course)

It depends on how it was done. The indoctrination theory always stated that there was more to come so you don't know how many endings there would be.

thats even worse in my opinion. because then they would have had the intention to release an ending dlc all along and I dont know about you, but for me that would be wrong in soooooo many ways.

I think it would have been absolutely brilliant if it had been available about a week after release. Somewhat agree that 1 or more months is too long. But I would still rather see it, plus a kickarse ending, than what we have now. 

[WizenSlinky0]

Malanek999 wrote...

No one (or at least very few) were claiming it was more than a theory. What I was saying here is that it does not reduce the number of endings.

I disagree. I find there is a growing population trying to pass it off as "fact". Not to say the whole following is, of course, but the amount of people attempting to pass it off as fact has been steadily increasing. The theory itself...for every really neat and interesting find it has an equally proposterous straw grab to desperatly plug a hole.

But it DOES have interesting ideas/finds. So as a theory it is functional. I'm not quite sure I'd say it's better than what we already have...but it's functional, and if people are finding hope/happiness from it I'm glad.

Just wish people would stop treating it as fact. Urgh.

[jules_vern18]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

 Seriously it's not that great a theory a ton of time and effort was indeed made to it but there's too many other factors to deem it the best theory ever and that Bioware should do it. Am I seriously alone in NOT wanting the indoctrination theory to be the new ending? 

Same here, OP.  I get more irritated by IDT spam than I do by the Mass Effect Twitter page.

[ArkkAngel007]

I love the concept, despite the major shortcoming in that it would mean that we didn't get an actual ending.

But it's only a theory. Those saying it's fact are just as naive as those who take a personal problem with people perceiving the ending this way or feeling that it's the way they want the ending to continue on.

So I guess I'm not on the bandwagon. But maybe because I support it in an objective fashion, I'm still just some delusional religious zealot.

[Taleroth]

Tyrzun wrote...

You wake up wearing your "casual clothes" 

It's not casual clothes. It's the N7 armor.

[Gyspy Jive]

After playing many BioWare games over the last 15 years, I'm petty sure that the indoctrination theory is correct. There is just too much evidence for it.

To be honest, I really don't want them to change the endings per se, but some official clarification would really help.

[Jaze55]

I most definitely am not for the theory.

[jarrettwold]

Tyrzun wrote...
It's not a theory because it is logical and it has ZERO holes in it which makes it the right answer.

It's not logical at all.  As a storytelling tool, it makes no sense in that if you've been indoctrinated the whole time, then were any of the decisions yours?

It's just something stitched together by somebody on youtube, then watched while ignoring all the information contrary to the argument.  It's confirmation bias.  That's all.

[SamFlagg]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10349127/1#10349763

I'm much more infavor of a retcon myself.

And if the ending is indoctrination, I think they really need to say expressedly that it wasn't planned beforehand.  (And anything that is 'evidence' in the game now are all leftover assets from previously abandoned plots)

[MisterNugNug]

I honestly think that the writers had tunnel vision about concluding the trilogy. I think the ending(s) needed a fresh pair of eyes to look over what Mac Walters had planned. It was a plan that wasn't properly vetted and given how they executed other elements (Tali's Face, exclusion of side characters, how they introduced and handled Kai Leng), even if on paper what they had was flawless and genius; I have a hard time seeing them translate that in game.

[Naqey]

Tyrzun wrote...

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

 Seriously it's not that great a theory a ton of time and effort was indeed made to it but there's too many other factors to deem it the best theory ever and that Bioware should do it. Am I seriously alone in NOT wanting the indoctrination theory to be the new ending? 

You are refusing the facts.  The IND ending says all the garbage you consider shouldn't be considered.  It's that simple.

Haribinger knocks your out 20 menters from the portal.
That is indispuatable and a fact.  

So, the logical thing is to start there.
You are knocked out in your full armor

You wake up wearing your "casual clothes" with a pistol with infinite ammo.

STOP, considering nothing else.  Do you think you can magically change clothes while knocked out?  No, no one esle does as well.

So, it proves right there you are NOT awake.

The only way to wake up is tell Harbinger AKA star kid you don't believe his lies and you still want the Reapers destroyed.

Guess what happens if you do that?

You wake up right where you were knocked out back in your armor.

The ending is THAT simple.  Everything in between being knocked out and waking up is Harbinger trying to get you to indoctrinate yourself into believe what Bioware spend 3 games telling you NOT to do, believe you can control them.  Just like Saren, Benezia, the prothean AI, and finally TIM.

It's not a theory because it is logical and it has ZERO holes in it which makes it the right answer.

However, if you didn't mentally prepare your mind, by knowing you have enough EMS to "win" the war you don't wake up anyways.  Harbingers will is too strong.

This indoctrination Harbinger pulls isn't the slow kind as many make cases for, that's all theory.  This is the other kind that is described as instant.  It's Harbingers last ditch effort to stop you and DEFEAT the alliance by watching you betray them.

ahm, you´re not in your casual clothes, you´re still in your armor (standard armor that is)

[ShepardTheHopeful]

Dreogan wrote...

Tyrzun wrote...

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

 Seriously it's not that great a theory a ton of time and effort was indeed made to it but there's too many other factors to deem it the best theory ever and that Bioware should do it. Am I seriously alone in NOT wanting the indoctrination theory to be the new ending? 

You are refusing the facts.  The IND ending says all the garbage you consider shouldn't be considered.  It's that simple.

Haribinger knocks your out 20 menters from the portal.
That is indispuatable and a fact.  

So, the logical thing is to start there.
You are knocked out in your full armor

You wake up wearing your "casual clothes" with a pistol with infinite ammo.

STOP, considering nothing else.  Do you think you can magically change clothes while knocked out?  No, no one esle does as well.

So, it proves right there you are NOT awake.

The only way to wake up is tell Harbinger AKA star kid you don't believe his lies and you still want the Reapers destroyed.

Guess what happens if you do that?

You wake up right where you were knocked out back in your armor.

The ending is THAT simple.  Everything in between being knocked out and waking up is Harbinger trying to get you to indoctrinate yourself into believe what Bioware spend 3 games telling you NOT to do, believe you can control them.  Just like Saren, Benezia, the prothean AI, and finally TIM.

It's not a theory because it is logical and it has ZERO holes in it which makes it the right answer.

However, if you didn't mentally prepare your mind, by knowing you have enough EMS to "win" the war you don't wake up anyways.  Harbingers will is too strong.

This indoctrination Harbinger pulls isn't the slow kind as many make cases for, that's all theory.  This is the other kind that is described as instant.  It's Harbingers last ditch effort to stop you and DEFEAT the alliance by watching you betray them.

And it's still irrelevant until Bioware announces concrete plans to integrate it directly into the storyline. The fact that the ending does not work along a "straight path" is a catastrophic failure of storytelling; in contrast to every single strand of plot up until the end.

That wasn't casual clothes those were armor melted to ****. barely held together for the most part. Shepard is never in any casual clothes for that entire scene it's always armor. The color change is simple Bioware didn't predict what color you'd customize your armor to be so they went with the basic universal color. You have NO IDEA where you wake up they don't show a damn thing sides the fact you're clearly not where you were 5 minutes ago (and we're assuming this actually WAS 5 minutes ago and not hours maybe even days.) 

That's why I can't believe the indoctrination theory I keep getting these incorrect facts and ideals thrown at me nonstop. 

[Solduri]

i don't believe it and if it is true and they gave us a fake ending just for extra dlc money i would never buy a bioware game again

[TheTrueObelus]

The indoctrination theory is really creative but no I don't buy it. Lots of people dont.

[ArkkAngel007]

jules_vern18 wrote...

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

 Seriously it's not that great a theory a ton of time and effort was indeed made to it but there's too many other factors to deem it the best theory ever and that Bioware should do it. Am I seriously alone in NOT wanting the indoctrination theory to be the new ending? 

Same here, OP.  I get more irritated by IDT spam than I do by the Mass Effect Twitter page.

And you know what's worse than IDT spam (which is ridiculous)?  All the hateful spam directed at them because people feel they have the right to trash other's opinion on an already **** ending.  Wake up and smell the ashes: there's nothing to defend.  It's an open playing field for everyone, not just your opinion. 

I see people whine about how they are getting hated on for wanting happier endings or a change to the endings for clarity, but the same people go after one side or the other on a piece of bloody speculation.

That I think is more irritating than people voicing a harmless opinion.

Edit: This isn't a personal attack, but I just wanted you to be aware of how hypocritical and narrow-minded your post was.  If people disagree, cool.  There needs to be differences.  But this is really childish behavior.

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 23 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[beyzend]

yeah Occam's razor says the current ending is the end.

I will eat my words if I"m wrong.

[UndeadTRex]

I can't fully trust in something or even consider it an option when there is no proof and large amounts of personal feelings clouding judgement.

[ShepardTheHopeful]

No one is personally attacking the theory here this is just for the skeptics like me who aren't convinced and are a bit sick of hearing it. All I'm asking for is evidence that can't be proven otherwise.

[DLClol]

You can bash the theory and the people supporting it all you want there is evidence in the game and the other two that support it. Either this is a sick coincidence or it was intended.

Or they scrapped the indoc plot at the very last second and left all the evidence supporting it in the game due to laziness, which at this point wouldnt suprise me.

Modifié par DLClol, 23 mars 2012 - 02:46 .

[Zix13]

It resolves all plotholes, thus it's the most viable way to fix the endings. People who say that it doesn't make sense in terms of content obviously don't understand it. Thinking bioware left out the ending is stupid though.

[Janus382]

ShepardTheHopeful wrote...

 Seriously it's not that great a theory a ton of time and effort was indeed made to it but there's too many other factors to deem it the best theory ever and that Bioware should do it. Am I seriously alone in NOT wanting the indoctrination theory to be the new ending? 

It is the "best theory ever", considering I've never heard any better ones.

I personally am not on the bandwagon.  Some things seem way too deliberate to be mere coincidence, so I do believe something involving indoctrination was planned at some point... but I don't believe that was the plan when the game went gold.

That said, I have mixed feelings about them implementing the theory now.  It trumps what we have now, and is probably better than what we have now + expanded dialogue and elaboration... but I'd definitely prefer a total rewrite.

Modifié par Janus382, 23 mars 2012 - 02:47 .

[Nageth]

TheTrueObelus wrote...

The indoctrination theory is really creative but no I don't buy it. Lots of people dont.

So creative Dallas did it two decades ago.