Alrighty. I watched Redemption. For a camcorder fanfic it wasn't bad.
But I must point out BioWare supports it and made a DLC from it. So the insights into the Qunari revealed during this short film carry some weight with the lore.
From what I saw . . . my earlier stance is strengthened. I've yet to see a Qunari really live the Qun.
Tallis leaves heavy feelings...
Débuté par
glitter_guld
, mars 23 2012 04:45
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#52
Posté 28 mars 2012 - 11:07
glitter_guld
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Tallis is clear, but why do you think that the other qunari do not live by the Qun?
#53
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 03:10
Arppis
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My friend was dissapointed she couldn't kill her.
#54
Posté 29 mars 2012 - 04:35
Dariustwinblade
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I wanted to kill Tallis! The Quanari Bullsh*t was unbearable.
Why would an Anti-Qunari/pro-Imperius mage Hawke who supported Patrice NOT kill her.
Why would an Anti-Qunari/pro-Imperius mage Hawke who supported Patrice NOT kill her.
#55
Posté 30 mars 2012 - 03:49
TiaraBlade
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Trying to remember but I was pretty sure that it was a list of Qun spies and I didn't like that, once again, Bioware rail roaded us down a path in the Chronicles of Dragon Age 2.
Really, WHY would I want to help protect the spies of a hostile and expansionist power which burned and tried to take over my home town? I don't remember exactly what the Duke was going to do with the list but givem that Orlasis is less of a threat to the rest of Thedas (they are not invading the Marches and the war between them and Fereldan ended a generation ago), why isn't giving that list to the Empress or her agent an option?
I would rather have done that, or even kept the list as a bargaining chip thank you very much. Supporting the Qun? Heck no!
Really, WHY would I want to help protect the spies of a hostile and expansionist power which burned and tried to take over my home town? I don't remember exactly what the Duke was going to do with the list but givem that Orlasis is less of a threat to the rest of Thedas (they are not invading the Marches and the war between them and Fereldan ended a generation ago), why isn't giving that list to the Empress or her agent an option?
I would rather have done that, or even kept the list as a bargaining chip thank you very much. Supporting the Qun? Heck no!
#56
Posté 30 mars 2012 - 03:52
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renjility wrote...
Her reaction to the guard's actions and his death are actually very non-Qunari, as far as I can tell. You haven't played MoTA, so I'll describe the scene for you. Hawke and Tallis are trying to break into the Duke's mansion. Once they succeed, they stumble on a guard on duty. Tallis says to him: "Wait, no one has to die today. Just walk away and forget you saw us."
Of course the guard would be a very bad guard if he did that, so he tries to yell a warning, forcing Tallis to throw a knife to kill him. Then she goes all sad becase he forced her to kill him by doing his job. If I understand Qunari, they believe you have to fulfill your "role" in the Qun. This can be farmer, soldier, etc. So the guard's role was to be a guard. How then can she expect of him to abandon his role, his duty, when she walks in and asks him to walk away? In Qunari culture that would lead to your death sentence.
Extremely insightful
#57
Guest_Hanz54321_*
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 01:56
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glitter_guld wrote...
Tallis is clear, but why do you think that the other qunari do not live by the Qun?
Honestly - this thread got me to (sigh) buy Mark of the Assassin and start playing DA2 again. In part because of your question Glitter. I remembered playing DA2 a year or so ago and thinking, "Wow - Sten was pretty devout and insightful w a few flaws, but the Qunari in this game are just hypocrits." But when you asked the question it had been so long I couldn't remember all the specifics.
So . . . here is one so far. Katojan. I get him to the coast, he indicates that he wants to be returned to Aavarad, so I do it and Katojan is executed. Now, under the demands of the Qun, the force sent to get Katojan attacks me. I kill them.
Here's where it gets nonsenseical. I go back to the Arishok for some reason or another. Out of respect (and honestly, self stupidity) I inform him of what transpired on the coast with the Saarebas and Aavarad. Does the Arishok immediately demand that my party be executed because the Qun demands all those exposed to a Saarebas who may have been possessed are to be executed? NOPE. He just says "don't let it happen again."
There is one example so far of the Arishok not following the Qun.
I'll post more as I play if you like.
#58
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 02:23
lx_theo
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I liked Tallis. Not sure why. Felt like a real person and wasn't defined by specific traits or flaws, maybe? Don't know. Didn't see redemption, mind you.
#59
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 02:31
Kavatica
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Hanz54321 wrote...
glitter_guld wrote...
Tallis is clear, but why do you think that the other qunari do not live by the Qun?
Honestly - this thread got me to (sigh) buy Mark of the Assassin and start playing DA2 again. In part because of your question Glitter. I remembered playing DA2 a year or so ago and thinking, "Wow - Sten was pretty devout and insightful w a few flaws, but the Qunari in this game are just hypocrits." But when you asked the question it had been so long I couldn't remember all the specifics.
So . . . here is one so far. Katojan. I get him to the coast, he indicates that he wants to be returned to Aavarad, so I do it and Katojan is executed. Now, under the demands of the Qun, the force sent to get Katojan attacks me. I kill them.
Here's where it gets nonsenseical. I go back to the Arishok for some reason or another. Out of respect (and honestly, self stupidity) I inform him of what transpired on the coast with the Saarebas and Aavarad. Does the Arishok immediately demand that my party be executed because the Qun demands all those exposed to a Saarebas who may have been possessed are to be executed? NOPE. He just says "don't let it happen again."
There is one example so far of the Arishok not following the Qun.
I'll post more as I play if you like.
You make an interesting point. But the law doesn't demand that all exposed to Saarebas are executed - the law demands that all exposed to a Saarebas outside the Qun are executed. I believe the Arishok overlooks Hawke's role in this case because a) Hawke came forward and was honest and
the Arishok is in Kirkwall for a bigger purpose and at this stage in the story is still trying to remain diplomatic.
#60
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 02:41
Rorschachinstein
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Tallis threw knives. I got mad respect for any ***** that throws knives. It's pretty badass
#61
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Posté 05 avril 2012 - 07:31
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Kavatica wrote...
You make an interesting point. But the law doesn't demand that all exposed to Saarebas are executed - the law demands that all exposed to a Saarebas outside the Qun are executed. I believe the Arishok overlooks Hawke's role in this case because a) Hawke came forward and was honest and
Upon rereading my reply it reads like diarhea of typing but the thoughts come faster than I can put them down.
See - but I'll just address point (
because it isa recurring theme withthe Qunari. They will set aside the demands of the Qun for diplomaxy's sake, and have done so on more than one occasion. You have named one. Another is the Llomeryn accords which Sten flatly tells Alistair that it's just a piece of paper and the Qunari will break the treaty when they see fit. "We only signed it because we knew you would believe it." A third example is the Arishok's assurances that they are only in Kirkwall until their ship arrives which is a lie, but ultimately the bigger point is they are there for their holy book. The Qunari are NOT there to indoctrinate the city.Now don't get me wrong - politics and religion always mix IRL and even in game. But the Qunari are a bunch of liars who ultimately are going to do one thing - go ape-sheet and conquer and kill. Sten lost it when he lost his blade and killed a bunch of folks. Granted, he DID turn himself in to be executed as the Qun demands . . . but he went bananas first. The Arishok's purpose in Kirkwall is to get the book. I can understand lying about it so thieves won't seek it out andtry to sell it. But ultimately he goes bananas - all the Kossith do - and they pillage the city and demand everyone convert.
Wouldn't it have been funny if, during his tirade, the book were burned or fell into a sewer while the person who had it was running like hell? OOOOPS! Sorry Arishok - your lust to conquer led you to an epic fail in getting the book back.
And oh - Sten's discussion w Loghain regarding resources. The Qunari waste nothing when they conquer - and there is no more valuable resource than people. Ahhhh, Sten? You might want to pay attention to what your people do as opposed to what they preach. Because if a person so much as returns a Sarebaas who was masterless for a day, that life is not valuable even though it was helpful - it needs to be extinguished.
Deep sigh - I guess I got it all out. My point is I really liked the idea of the Qun. And actually Tallis' little explanation of how all people are fallible but when she messes up she tries to get back on the path for the good of the group - I liked it because it did not paint the Qunari as perfect. Also, despite Sten tossing farmers like luggage he gets back on track.
But over all the Kossith are just a bunch of horned dill-holes with an unreasonable philosophy that gives them permission to kill, conquer, and enslave when it suits them but harshly punish people for small mistakes (like losing a sword that was not even that good).
#62
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 07:36
esper
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Kavatica wrote...
Hanz54321 wrote...
glitter_guld wrote...
Tallis is clear, but why do you think that the other qunari do not live by the Qun?
Honestly - this thread got me to (sigh) buy Mark of the Assassin and start playing DA2 again. In part because of your question Glitter. I remembered playing DA2 a year or so ago and thinking, "Wow - Sten was pretty devout and insightful w a few flaws, but the Qunari in this game are just hypocrits." But when you asked the question it had been so long I couldn't remember all the specifics.
So . . . here is one so far. Katojan. I get him to the coast, he indicates that he wants to be returned to Aavarad, so I do it and Katojan is executed. Now, under the demands of the Qun, the force sent to get Katojan attacks me. I kill them.
Here's where it gets nonsenseical. I go back to the Arishok for some reason or another. Out of respect (and honestly, self stupidity) I inform him of what transpired on the coast with the Saarebas and Aavarad. Does the Arishok immediately demand that my party be executed because the Qun demands all those exposed to a Saarebas who may have been possessed are to be executed? NOPE. He just says "don't let it happen again."
There is one example so far of the Arishok not following the Qun.
I'll post more as I play if you like.
You make an interesting point. But the law doesn't demand that all exposed to Saarebas are executed - the law demands that all exposed to a Saarebas outside the Qun are executed. I believe the Arishok overlooks Hawke's role in this case because a) Hawke came forward and was honest and
Avaraad attacks you because exposed too apperently means that Ketojan talked to you. They believe that demon whisper on a Sarabaas mind and everyone the Sarrabas speak to is exposed to that whisper. Basically had Ketojan not requested to speak to you, you were scout free.
But also you don't tell the Arishok that 1. You traveled with Katojan, two: He spoke to you. You only tell the Arishok that you killed the Arvarad and his group.
#63
Guest_Hanz54321_*
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 07:39
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Oh - and on Tallis - I figured how I feel about her.
The character is fine overall - I get the point of her. The conflicted Qunari who tries to follow the unrealistic demands of the Qun, help the non-warrior Qunari live, but is conflicted bythe totally unreasonable demands of the Kossith.
The detailed dialogue should've been written by someone else though. It was awful. The delivery ofthe dialogue also was awful. I watched the mini-movie on YouTube and played through 75% of Mask, and I am not a fan of Ms. Day's delivery of her lines at all. (edit - after seeing/hearing those two performances).
The character is fine overall - I get the point of her. The conflicted Qunari who tries to follow the unrealistic demands of the Qun, help the non-warrior Qunari live, but is conflicted bythe totally unreasonable demands of the Kossith.
The detailed dialogue should've been written by someone else though. It was awful. The delivery ofthe dialogue also was awful. I watched the mini-movie on YouTube and played through 75% of Mask, and I am not a fan of Ms. Day's delivery of her lines at all. (edit - after seeing/hearing those two performances).
Modifié par Hanz54321, 05 avril 2012 - 07:40 .
#64
Guest_Hanz54321_*
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 07:58
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esper wrote...
Avaraad attacks you because exposed too apperently means that Ketojan talked to you. They believe that demon whisper on a Sarabaas mind and everyone the Sarrabas speak to is exposed to that whisper. Basically had Ketojan not requested to speak to you, you were scout free.
But also you don't tell the Arishok that 1. You traveled with Katojan, two: He spoke to you. You only tell the Arishok that you killed the Arvarad and his group.
Nope - Avaraad attacks because he doesn't know if the Sarebaas influenced you while not under Avaraad's watchful eye.
As to the specifics of the conversation, I do not ask forgiveness for my opinion: virtually all the dialogue in DA2 is a summary so folks can get back to hitting the "A"some button. The Arishok is smart enough to know why Avaraad and I met, and why we fought. If I recall correctly I told him Sister Petrice tried to set me up by sending me off w Ketojan . . . or some summary of that. Anyway - I do not accept specifics when it comes to dialogue in DA2. Most of the dialogue is meant to convey ideas, not specifics.
#65
Posté 05 avril 2012 - 08:17
esper
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Hanz54321 wrote...
esper wrote...
Avaraad attacks you because exposed too apperently means that Ketojan talked to you. They believe that demon whisper on a Sarabaas mind and everyone the Sarrabas speak to is exposed to that whisper. Basically had Ketojan not requested to speak to you, you were scout free.
But also you don't tell the Arishok that 1. You traveled with Katojan, two: He spoke to you. You only tell the Arishok that you killed the Arvarad and his group.
Nope - Avaraad attacks because he doesn't know if the Sarebaas influenced you while not under Avaraad's watchful eye.
As to the specifics of the conversation, I do not ask forgiveness for my opinion: virtually all the dialogue in DA2 is a summary so folks can get back to hitting the "A"some button. The Arishok is smart enough to know why Avaraad and I met, and why we fought. If I recall correctly I told him Sister Petrice tried to set me up by sending me off w Ketojan . . . or some summary of that. Anyway - I do not accept specifics when it comes to dialogue in DA2. Most of the dialogue is meant to convey ideas, not specifics.
No you do not tell him anything about Petrice at that point, you simply tell him that you fought his Averaad, meaning that he doesn't know you have been exposed to an Averaad-less Sarabass.
That said the qunari have always being flaming hypocrites. Sten was too. And Tallis is... well, Tallis is trying so hard to justifice the qun while not being a very good Qunari, and on the same time having a dislikeable personality (I at least did not like her very much).
#66
Guest_Hanz54321_*
Posté 07 avril 2012 - 09:11
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esper wrote...
[No you do not tell him anything about Petrice at that point . . .
I restarted my game (I do that a lot) and ironically . . . your first post is correct regarding quotes. Had Sarebaas not actually sppoken to me Avaraad would have let me on my way. You were right about that one.
But your second reply was exactly wrong regarding quotes. I did tell the Arishok about Petrice setting the conflict up, and I did tell him that I had Sarrebaas in my custody and that Sarebaas chose death. The Arishok was pretty non-plussed about the whole thing as he kept commenting the entire city mixed friend and foe and should be purged. He makes a comment about Sarabaas' choice and points out that praising Sarebaas for doing what he should have done anyway was illogical. But like Prego Spagetti Sause, it's in there.
I do have to laugh that out of dialogue mode Arishok keeps mumbling about whether he should "help" the city once his assigned task is done. In the infinitely open choiced game I would've went straight to the Viscount and Meredith and told them both, "He's going to do it . . . the guy keeps mumbling obsessively that the city needs to be brought to heel once he does whatever he is here for."
We both agree the Qunari are just a buncha bullies. Convert, or die. OK, you converted? Great! Now choose the role we give you or choose death. You're still free to choose . . . we just make choosing simple by giving you two choices!
#67
Posté 09 avril 2012 - 02:55
OmegaXI
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I myself like the character of Tallis, fun chacter but she is into some really heavy stuff. you can see she is conflicted and with flaws, that itself makes for some great character development.
I'm honestly hoping the put her in DA3 just for the sake of the party banter : D
That and Felica Day is so hot elf ears in all.
I'm honestly hoping the put her in DA3 just for the sake of the party banter : D
That and Felica Day is so hot elf ears in all.
#68
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 02:32
Faoiltiama
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I've been a huge Felicia Day fan for ages, since the start of The Guild.
That being said, I didn't care for Tallis or this DLC all that much. I found the plot massively restrictive and focused on Tallis being the main character with the player character just along for the ride. It just felt to me like the DLC was really based on someone at Bioware having a massive Felicia Day crush.
That being said, I didn't care for Tallis or this DLC all that much. I found the plot massively restrictive and focused on Tallis being the main character with the player character just along for the ride. It just felt to me like the DLC was really based on someone at Bioware having a massive Felicia Day crush.
#69
Posté 25 juin 2012 - 11:16
Lazy Jer
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I have to like Tallis, she still has my nose.
#70
Posté 26 juin 2012 - 12:26
LobselVith8
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Dariustwinblade wrote...
I wanted to kill Tallis! The Quanari Bullsh*t was unbearable.
Why would an Anti-Qunari/pro-Imperius mage Hawke who supported Patrice NOT kill her.
Hawke does that all the time in Dragon Age II - the Champion lets Petrice go, he does nothing about Meredith's dictatorship for years, he stands idly by while Grace kills Thrask right in front of him - you shouldn't be surprised by it.
#71
Posté 26 juin 2012 - 08:22
WotanAnubis
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I do not understand Tallis.
"Women are shopkeepers, priestesses or farmers. They do not fight." - Sten, best Qunari (though I probably got the exact quote wrong)
So, considering the Qun says that it is literally impossible for someone to be both female and capable of fighting, how exactly did Tallis become an infiltrator/assassin?
"Women are shopkeepers, priestesses or farmers. They do not fight." - Sten, best Qunari (though I probably got the exact quote wrong)
So, considering the Qun says that it is literally impossible for someone to be both female and capable of fighting, how exactly did Tallis become an infiltrator/assassin?
#72
Posté 26 juin 2012 - 09:34
caradoc2000
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Because she is a Ben-Hassrath, which is technically a priest.WotanAnubis wrote...
I do not understand Tallis.
"Women are shopkeepers, priestesses or farmers. They do not fight." - Sten, best Qunari (though I probably got the exact quote wrong)
So, considering the Qun says that it is literally impossible for someone to be both female and capable of fighting, how exactly did Tallis become an infiltrator/assassin?
#73
Posté 26 juin 2012 - 09:49
WotanAnubis
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A priest who murders a whole bunch of people in her introduction scene alone.
If that's true, Sten really shouldn't be surprised the Grey Warden could kick ass. He just had to think of the Grey Wardens as a religious order. There! Problem solved.
If that's true, Sten really shouldn't be surprised the Grey Warden could kick ass. He just had to think of the Grey Wardens as a religious order. There! Problem solved.
#75
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 12:00
unreadierLizard
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I still kind of think basing the entire character around Felicia Day, who is an excellent actress(The Guild was one of my favourite web series) was a mistake.
Tallis just struck me as a Mary Sue; she's excellent at combat, can't be hit, and acts like a badass Qunari zealot. I didn't see any flaws in her plunging armour that I could see.
Tallis just struck me as a Mary Sue; she's excellent at combat, can't be hit, and acts like a badass Qunari zealot. I didn't see any flaws in her plunging armour that I could see.
