526 réponses à ce sujet

[Marixus99.9]

Actinguy1 wrote...

Marixus99.9 wrote...

Actinguy1 wrote...

I've editted the original post to include Tycho's link (which was posted AFTER my convo with Gabe), plus a few other items.

Thanks. You got my message?

Yeah, yours was probably the fifth one saying the same thing.  ;c)

I linked it first on the thread

[Sepharih]

Honestly....after reading his official response I'm pretty sympathetic

It may seem at first glance like they're pulling the plug because they don't agree with our cause.....but the real problem is that it started turning *OTHER* people off to the Child's play charity because people didn't agree with our cause and some confusion developed over how the two were connected....even though they were not really.

It's unfortunate things had to develop like this...because I really think the retakemasseffect charity was a good idea to fight the idea that the fans were just entitled....but this was an uninteded side affect that I don't think anybody expected......including child's play.

Modifié par Sepharih, 23 mars 2012 - 06:05 .

[Quietness]

Jayce F wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I have not seen what PAX or PA is doing. I am talking about right way to go about it and wrong way.  A simple change of stance and description and all could of been avoided. What I just said is how he viewed it going by his statements and as others in here have also agreed with his stance. I was more disgusted by some (not many) asking for donations back.

The goal was perfectly clear. You're being just as disengenuous as the PA crew  trying to make it seem otherwise.

It was perfectly clear the drive was a charity donation to a childrens charity. Anyone who was stupid enough to think otherwise must need help tying their shoes. Tycho completely blows any credibility he might've had by claiming the drive stopped cause 'they won' when it stopped because they pulled the plug.

It clearly was not "clear" at all. That is why they stopped it and that is why some idiots are asking for their money back.

Some idiots are asking for their money back because Penny Arcade turned the donation drive into a football by pressuring Retake to end it.

It's douchey to want your money back no matter the circumstances, but I can understand why some feel getting their money back is a way of disassociating their charitable donations from the behavior of Penny Arcade.

Actually (god this pains the hell out of me for agree'ing) PA stopped it due to the high amount of people charging back the funds. Ive worked in a non-profit if there is a negative stigma attached for a certain cause we ask for the cause to stop.. non-profits live and die off of PR.... 

As for anyone charging any money back, for any reason at all, i really hope something terrible happens to their sexual reproductive organs and several other things. This money is going to sick children and its a flat out disgusting thing if people charge any of that back.

[IndustrializedTaco]

SamFlagg wrote...

beetlebailey123 wrote...

We were giving money to charity. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Even if we were using the charity as a "shield." The children still benefit. WHY SHUT THIS DOWN IT'S BULL****! We were doing good. Why ruin a good thing.

Because certain elements were starting to petition Pay Pay for give backs, and the long term goals of the charity were starting to be impacted by what is becoming negative publicity.

Whether or not it is fair that there is negative publicity isn't the issue.  The operators of the charity have both the right and duty to protect their long term charitable interests.

I understand now. I'm cool I've calmed down. Why did the people donate to charity thinking they were paying for the ending. When the thing said donate to childs play? Are people really that stupid? 

[Zine2]

There is nothing unethical about donating to a charity with an ulterior motive. That's the whole premise behind corporate donations.

Penny Arcade gets a black list from me too. Their content had been sliding for a long time and there's really no further need to keep reading their comic.

Modifié par Zine2, 23 mars 2012 - 06:06 .

[Actinguy1]

RogueBot wrote...

OP, I give you props for the way you've handled this thread, especially with your edit. I know some people might have used the momentum here to personally attack Child's Play and Penny Arcade. Even though you did ask them if they were out of their minds, you've admitted you were wrong to say that and that's cool.

Thanks!

[longtimecoming00]

[quote]CavScout wrote...

[quote]longtimecoming00 wrote...

[quote]CavScout wrote...

~Stuff I wrote~

[/quote]

/facepalm
[/quote]

You seem prefer certain responses regards to your posts:

1) Hyperboles
2) Straw-man arguments
3) Ad hominids
4) Logical fallacies
5) Textualized body gestures

All of which are obtuse and adds nothing to the discussion at hand.  Why not just respond to other posters comments instead of using delaying tactics?

[Legendaryred]

There are other charities, if the guy doesn't want money for kids then that's cool.

[garf]

Jayce F wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I have not seen what PAX or PA is doing. I am talking about right way to go about it and wrong way.  A simple change of stance and description and all could of been avoided. What I just said is how he viewed it going by his statements and as others in here have also agreed with his stance. I was more disgusted by some (not many) asking for donations back.

The goal was perfectly clear. You're being just as disengenuous as the PA crew  trying to make it seem otherwise.

It was perfectly clear the drive was a charity donation to a childrens charity. Anyone who was stupid enough to think otherwise must need help tying their shoelaces.

Tycho completely blows any credibility he might've had by claiming the drive stopped cause 'they won' when it stopped because they pulled the plug.

Sorry I'm part of the Retake movement but I can't agree here. As soon as we put those donations under our banner we made it a political move. An effective one perhaps becuase it made us harder to attack as entitled. One that made us feel good about ourselves too. I'm sure.. for me it was also a very simple personal gesture. Money that I would have spent on Bioware is now spent elsewhere. It makes impulse buying impossible and encourages caution because now in order to acquire DLC I have to actually decide which other night-out, Movie, or other pleasure I'm going to forgoe. Thus I can feel great about holding the line with ease.

However, that doesn't change the inconvienient and ugly politcal truth. nor does it change the fact that we were complicating things for the charity. We proved our point. We Remain Civil. It's FINE to drop this guys ... seriously.

If the child's play cause really means a lot to you continue donating. nothing is stopping you. If the problem is that you want to do it under the Retake Banner. Then we've lost that battle before we've begun. As I said, We did good, we have nothing more to prove. The fact that someone had to STOP it says volumes. This card, as a card, has been played. Time to draw from the deck again.

[Skeejee]

I agree with PA on this and respect their decision to close it.

A charity should NOT be co-opted for a cause other than what that charity is about.

If you feel strongly about Child's Play, donate to Child's Play. Simple as.

EDIT: Garf said that more eloquently than me

Modifié par Skeejee, 23 mars 2012 - 06:07 .

[Goroxx]

vometia wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

 "We’ve also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back." - Tycho

How EMBARRASSING. If that was you, **** you. Seriously.

I must admit I'm finding this extremely difficult to believe.

Me too, but seeing some of the stupid rage over this, I'm sure its going on.  

And I'm with ticklefist...those that are asking for their donations back?  Karma's a b**ch.  

This is the part where we stand up tall, shake hands with the Child's Play charity, and part company knowing that both we and they are doing good things for sick kids.  

Its too bad that the ending issue has polarized the Mass Effect community into two camps; wouldn't it be great to have a Child's Play charity drive that wasn't connected to the issue of the endings?  Where all the fans on all sides could come together and raise money just for the fun of it?  Hell, I'd love to have a race with another game community...I bet we could beat any other game franchise out there 

[Actinguy1]

Marixus99.9 wrote...

Actinguy1 wrote...

Marixus99.9 wrote...

Actinguy1 wrote...

I've editted the original post to include Tycho's link (which was posted AFTER my convo with Gabe), plus a few other items.

Thanks. You got my message?

Yeah, yours was probably the fifth one saying the same thing.  ;c)

I linked it first on the thread

I'm not going to go back and check, but I think I did.  ;c)  I saw Gabe had tweeted again.  Thought it was a response to me, but it was a link to Tychos post.

[CavScout]

Nyila wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

Nyila wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

 "We’ve also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back." - Tycho

How EMBARRASSING. If that was you, **** you. Seriously.

How can you be sure that's a true statement? I mean, is there a way to be certain people are asking for refunds? And if they really are, is it wrong of them to give the money to another charity that isn't linked with all this political bull****?

For the first part of the question: Then I guess nobody has to **** themselves, problem solved. As for the second part, it's charity. Not your stock portfolio. You don't move your money around.

I'm just having a hard time taking his word for it. If Paypal tells someone else that people are asking for refunds, then I'll believe it.

You expect PayPal to disclose information to a third-party?

[dcal31]

I believe this might clear things up a little. For your consideration:

"There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool following it." - Niven's Law(s)

[elitesalt]

Apparently some of the people giving to the cause seemed to think that they were paying for a new ending to Mass Effect. She’s been asked what the goal is, and how much they need to raise in order to get the ending produced.

good lord. some people are absolute idiots.

honestly i see where PA is coming from. it's not like people are unable to still donate to child's play or anything.

[CheeseEnchilada]

wook77 wrote...

Look, if you'd like to continue to donate, do so. If they ask where they can send the acknowledgment form, give them the corporate address for BioWare/EA. It's a simple way of getting the message across as the mail comes in.

So donate. Know that you're doing a good thing. AND get that card sent to the company. In the end, the important part is getting the kids some help.

My god, this. This thread has turned into a disaster zone. Kids are benefiting from this, and in the end that's really all that matters. What exactly the movement 'meant' and what each individual was donating for is moot--it's over, done, and time to move on. 

[Red Viking]

RedShft wrote...

Yeah, I never understood why Retake was donating money to charity other than as some sort of publicity stunt. Your motivation is in no way connected to Childs Play.

This is actually a gross abuse of charities and you guys should have really thought this through before you decided on this course of action.

I agree 100% with the founders of Child's Play.

Kayjin23 wrote...

You know a lot of the posts in this thread are just proving that at least some people WERE using the charity as a shield. There's no reason to stop donating money if you want to donate money to help children. ALL they are asking is that you please stop trying to use it to support Retake Mass Effect 3. If so many of you will only donate when you can donate it under that banner, how are you NOT using it as a shield?

 

This is true. It's pretty sickening behaviour.

That's unfair.  Just because some people were doesn't mean all of us had an ulterior motive.  Some of us honestly saw this as an opportunity to help sick kids.

[Quietness]

CavScout wrote...
CP didn't want to be a shield for RetakeME3, that's their point...

Jesus you are as f**** thick as the people who think we did it to give the money to bioware. If you took any time out, you would have found out that it was used for people to take all that crap feeling (as lots of people were incredibly depressed,frustrated, and just plain angry) and turn it into something good.

[Maria Caliban]

deimosmasque wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

deimosmasque wrote...


The problem is indentifying why they donated in the first place.

1. You'll never know.
2. It doesn't matter.

Your mostly right on the first part, on the second you are wrong.  If someone donated because they thought they were donating to something else (IE the Retake Mass Effect ideal of new or atleast more coherent endings) then Child's Play can be considered fraudlent for taking their money.

Then they could complain to the FTC and get laughed out the same way the person who complained about the ME 3 ending did. The onus would be on them to show how Child's Play defrauded them of money.

[deimosmasque]

aMytallica wrote...

But people did still willingly donate to a charity - no matter what their motivations. So why is this a bad thing? Those kids still benefit, don't they?

Your right, they did.  But if Tycho is to believed (and I personally believe he should be) people have already been asking for their donations back.  As in, they realized they weren't donating to what they thought they were donating to and wanted to back out.

By US law they have to give those peole their money back, creating manhours of returning money that Child's Play thought was theres, and depending how fast the charity moves, may have already spent. 

It's not a bad thing that people donated.  It's a bad thing that some people may have thought they were donating to something else entirely.

A good real life example for me was PETA.  I donated to them specifically because of their protests against animial euthanisia... only to find out they euthanize animals themselves.  That was not what I donated my money for. 

[Skeejee]

Wait...WOW, people were demanding their money back? oO

[Silveralen]

You guys realize this isn't really a bad thing right? (at least for the movement, probably does mean less for the sick kids which is sad) Did you pay attention to the PR thread? No? Ok come here real quick.

One of the biggest problems is movements like this being treated like we are hostile. Now, let us look at what happened.

1. Group starts a charity drive.
2. Group generates lots of money.
3. Charity Drive is shut down in part by a group that has already shown themselves to be hostile to the cause.

Do you see? It sends the message "People hate this movement rabidly to the point they will punish kids." They did us a favor, and a nice one at that. Tycho and Gabriel showed everyone that the anti-retake movement has its own share of bias. Now, they claim it is for other reasons of course, but at the end of the day, we don't know for sure, but they sent a message that they don't want to be associated even if it means helping sick kids.

Oh and charity drives always generate more money than standard donations, that is pretty well known, so admitting this will lower overall donations doesn't imply selfishness on the movements part, it is just how drives work, that is a key point to emphasize to pull it off.

[Nyila]

Goroxx wrote...

vometia wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

 "We’ve also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back." - Tycho

How EMBARRASSING. If that was you, **** you. Seriously.

I must admit I'm finding this extremely difficult to believe.

Me too, but seeing some of the stupid rage over this, I'm sure its going on.  

And I'm with ticklefist...those that are asking for their donations back?  Karma's a b**ch.  

This is the part where we stand up tall, shake hands with the Child's Play charity, and part company knowing that both we and they are doing good things for sick kids.  

Its too bad that the ending issue has polarized the Mass Effect community into two camps; wouldn't it be great to have a Child's Play charity drive that wasn't connected to the issue of the endings?  Where all the fans on all sides could come together and raise money just for the fun of it?  Hell, I'd love to have a race with another game community...I bet we could beat any other game franchise out there 

You're right, people do a lot of stupid things when they're angry. They should all hit the sack and tomorrow, they'll think more clearly.

[Necrotron]

*shrug* You can still donate to children through Child's Play, just no longer with the purpose that you don't support Mass Effect's ending as your reason.

Kids benefited. Win.

It was huuuuge brand awareness for Child's Play. Win.

It's their charity, they can stop what they see is an inappropriate use of their charity if they want. I think us donating instead of raging was a great idea, and I supported it and participated. I think it was a great avenue to channel our frustrated emotions, but I also agree that the charity can rightfully refuse to allow users to donate to their charity in support of a cause.

Modifié par Bathaius, 23 mars 2012 - 06:11 .

[garf]

beetlebailey123 wrote...

SamFlagg wrote...

beetlebailey123 wrote...

We were giving money to charity. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Even if we were using the charity as a "shield." The children still benefit. WHY SHUT THIS DOWN IT'S BULL****! We were doing good. Why ruin a good thing.

Because certain elements were starting to petition Pay Pay for give backs, and the long term goals of the charity were starting to be impacted by what is becoming negative publicity.

Whether or not it is fair that there is negative publicity isn't the issue.  The operators of the charity have both the right and duty to protect their long term charitable interests.

I understand now. I'm cool I've calmed down. Why did the people donate to charity thinking they were paying for the ending. When the thing said donate to childs play? Are people really that stupid? 

I'm a affraid so. sorry some people are indeed stupid, nearsighted, ignorant. and some of them fly our banner.

Modifié par garf, 23 mars 2012 - 06:11 .