526 réponses à ce sujet

[Doctoglethorpe]

Yay political bull****!

Lets just go ahead and ban all charities in the world that work on systems that in any way benefit or reward the donators. No more charity auctions, raffles, sales, competitions, etc. Cause if a person doesn't just do it purely out of the good of their heart then it shouldn't count and their money should be rejected!

[SamFlagg]

Something good was accomplished with all of this. 80,000 was raised.

DO NOT.  I repeat DO NOT try and tarnish it by calling out the charity because you think we should be able to dictate their long term interests.

DO NOT. I reapeat DO NOT try and rationalize or approve of or do anything less than call the utter hypocratic bull**** of anyone who tried to get their money back from a charitable donation.

THIS DRIVE WAS SOMETHING GOOD.

Each one of us can be proud that we did something good with it.  We're going to receive flak from all sides, some logic and some not.

But each one of us can stand tall.  Say I'm glad the money we raised went to a good cause.  And then move on.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOW YOURSELF TO GET MIRED IN SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T HAVE
TO BE A QUAGMIRE!

*format edited because quagmire seems to drop off the page.*

Modifié par SamFlagg, 23 mars 2012 - 06:15 .

[charmedmeat]

Kayjin23 wrote...

You know a lot of the posts in this thread are just proving that at least some people WERE using the charity as a shield. There's no reason to stop donating money if you want to donate money to help children. ALL they are asking is that you please stop trying to use it to support Retake Mass Effect 3. If so many of you will only donate when you can donate it under that banner, how are you NOT using it as a shield?

WHY IS USING THE CHARITY AS A SHIELD A PROBLEM?!?  

There seems to be this innate assumption that this is a bad thing.  It happens all the time.  It would be one thing for an extremely negative or controversial group to be doing this, but a group trying to combat negative stereotypes about gamers, donating money as a way to channel anger into a charity designed to combat negative stereotypes about gamers is not it.

Look, if I have money, and I can donate it to a charity, or I can donate it to a charity AND have it be tallied as part of RetakeME, I'm going to choose the latter right now.

That said, the PA folks have every right to say what they will do with their charity.  I disagree with many of their assertions in their statement, but again it's their call.  I do have to point out that this charity has been used by them to promote and support both PA and PAX, so I consider this move very hypocritical on their part.

[Dragoonlordz]

Jayce F wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I have not seen what PAX or PA is doing. I am talking about right way to go about it and wrong way.  A simple change of stance and description and all could of been avoided. What I just said is how he viewed it going by his statements and as others in here have also agreed with his stance. I was more disgusted by some (not many) asking for donations back.

The goal was perfectly clear. You're being just as disengenuous as the PA crew  trying to make it seem otherwise.

It was perfectly clear the drive was a charity donation to a childrens charity. Anyone who was stupid enough to think otherwise must need help tying their shoes. Tycho completely blows any credibility he might've had by claiming the drive stopped cause 'they won' when it stopped because they pulled the plug.

It clearly was not "clear" at all. That is why they stopped it and that is why some idiots are asking for their money back.

Some idiots are asking for their money back because Penny Arcade turned the donation drive into a football by pressuring Retake to end it.

It's douchey to want your money back no matter the circumstances, but I can understand why some feel getting their money back is a way of disassociating their charitable donations from the behavior of Penny Arcade.

If you feel that way then you offend me that you simply do not understand how charity works and feel the need to blame others for such a very simple error easy to avoid on your groups part. But I will overlook such since the money you did raise (apart from idiots asking for refunds), went to a good cause and the kids will be better off. I personally wish Retake had explained and expressed their attachment and reasons for donating in a more acceptable manner and not misled those idiots by how you expressed your affliliation so that it could of continued. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 23 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[CavScout]

Legendaryred wrote...

There are other charities, if the guy doesn't want money for kids then that's cool.

They will take your donations.

[Nyila]

CavScout wrote...

Nyila wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

Nyila wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

 "We’ve also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back." - Tycho

How EMBARRASSING. If that was you, **** you. Seriously.

How can you be sure that's a true statement? I mean, is there a way to be certain people are asking for refunds? And if they really are, is it wrong of them to give the money to another charity that isn't linked with all this political bull****?

For the first part of the question: Then I guess nobody has to **** themselves, problem solved. As for the second part, it's charity. Not your stock portfolio. You don't move your money around.

I'm just having a hard time taking his word for it. If Paypal tells someone else that people are asking for refunds, then I'll believe it.

You expect PayPal to disclose information to a third-party?

I expect you to troll and cause trouble.

[deimosmasque]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Then they could complain to the FTC and get laughed out the same way the person who complained about the ME 3 ending did. The onus would be on them to show how Child's Play defrauded them of money.

Charity donations have to be returned if raised fraudlently.

[CavScout]

longtimecoming00 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

longtimecoming00 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

~Stuff I wrote~

/facepalm

You seem prefer certain responses regards to your posts:

1) Hyperboles
2) Straw-man arguments
3) Ad hominids
4) Logical fallacies
5) Textualized body gestures

All of which are obtuse and adds nothing to the discussion at hand.  Why not just respond to other posters comments instead of using delaying tactics?

I did not write that, why did you edit it to make it look like I did?

Modifié par CavScout, 23 mars 2012 - 06:11 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Quietness wrote...

As for anyone charging any money back, for any reason at all, i really hope something terrible happens to their sexual reproductive organs and several other things. This money is going to sick children and its a flat out disgusting thing if people charge any of that back.

Oddly I wouldn't take it that far but it is not a nice thing to do, it is a charity regardless of why they think they are donating they should not be asking for their money back.

[Ricvenart]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I have to agree though. It took a video game ending to get people to donate.

That's not really true or fair though.
Do you really want to go down that road? How about the £40-70 you spent on your own personal entertainment? That could have gone to children sick in hospitals. Are you £10 in credit with your bank? Why aren't you donating that cash right now to a good cause? Obviously I don't expect you to do this, it'd be unreasonable to judge you for that.

It just gave cause to do something in a multitude of ways, and something to rally behind and put thier feelings and energy towards something positive. The charity wasn't a shield to hide behind or a gun to the developers head, and frankly to me was heart warming of how much the gaming community can change, what they can do once they have direction, over just sitting a complaining while doing nothing constructive or positive. And many of those same people may already be regular donars to charities, this was just something extra.

Claiming it's not our shield? After admitting it's there combat gamer stereotypes? Aren't the goals the same?
I sure you could find a number of people that would negate the worthiness of the charity in the first place, that money could be better spent on the hospitals looking after lives, health, not entertainment to provide mental health support where nurses tend to lack the time. Again though it's simply not true or fair to judge people like that.

Gabe: If you see this, you broke my heart tonight too, wasn't just this but you made well hell of a crack. And maybe you should question your link with the Humble Bundle where people at least guarantee they get something back out of any donation given.
Really sad say when a way to join together peacefully, that benefits others regardless of the outcome, if shot down.

On refunds: I don't think people should for many reasons, but can understand why they might when the charity has claimed the reason for the donation is wrong yet is happy enough to keep the "tainted" money.

Modifié par Ricvenart, 23 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[Jayce]

Quietness wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I have not seen what PAX or PA is doing. I am talking about right way to go about it and wrong way.  A simple change of stance and description and all could of been avoided. What I just said is how he viewed it going by his statements and as others in here have also agreed with his stance. I was more disgusted by some (not many) asking for donations back.

The goal was perfectly clear. You're being just as disengenuous as the PA crew  trying to make it seem otherwise.

It was perfectly clear the drive was a charity donation to a childrens charity. Anyone who was stupid enough to think otherwise must need help tying their shoes. Tycho completely blows any credibility he might've had by claiming the drive stopped cause 'they won' when it stopped because they pulled the plug.

It clearly was not "clear" at all. That is why they stopped it and that is why some idiots are asking for their money back.

Some idiots are asking for their money back because Penny Arcade turned the donation drive into a football by pressuring Retake to end it.

It's douchey to want your money back no matter the circumstances, but I can understand why some feel getting their money back is a way of disassociating their charitable donations from the behavior of Penny Arcade.

Actually (god this pains the hell out of me for agree'ing) PA stopped it due to the high amount of people charging back the funds. Ive worked in a non-profit if there is a negative stigma attached for a certain cause we ask for the cause to stop.. non-profits live and die off of PR.... 

As for anyone charging any money back, for any reason at all, i really hope something terrible happens to their sexual reproductive organs and several other things. This money is going to sick children and its a flat out disgusting thing if people charge any of that back.

Which is part of the problem because a big chunk of the negative publicity was coming from Penny Arcade....

[deimosmasque]

SamFlagg wrote...

Something good was accomplished with all of this. 80,000 was raised.

DO NOT.  I repeat DO NOT try and tarnish it by calling out the charity because you think we should be able to dictate their long term interests.

DO NOT. I reapeat DO NOT try and rationalize or approve of or do anything less than call the utter hypocratic bull**** of anyone who tried to get their money back from a charitable donation.

THIS DRIVE WAS SOMETHING GOOD.

Each one of us can be proud that we did something good with it.  We're going to receive flak from all sides, some logic and some not.

But each one of us can stand tall.  Say I'm glad the money we raised went to a good cause.  And then move on.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOW YOURSELF TO GET MIRED IN SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A QUAGMIRE!

THIS!  Hold the Line!  Don't Slash and Burn!

[RedShft]

Quietness wrote...

Actually as said a rediculous amount of times through-out the whole time of it.

It was used for people to turn all that crap feeling into something good. 

Sure it could have and should have been worded better, there was even a lot of debate about a week ago from simply removing the full retake portion out of the name, but it was decided against as that is what it originally operated under.

I understand your intent, but you have to realize how it looks from other peoples point of views and even the founders of ChildsPlay. 

Regardless of your intent, it can be perceived that you guys are using CP as leverage for your movement. Not to mention, the most important part of this is that the motives of your movement, to make a proper ending to ME3 (which I support), do not coincide with CP. 

This is important. Due to the fact that the motivations of your movement are at odds with the motivations of CP it can be perceived that you are using CP as a tool. 

I am not saying you guys are bad people. You just made a mistake. 

[Tyrzun]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Yay political bull****!

Lets just go ahead and ban all charities in the world that work on systems that in any way benefit or reward the donators. No more charity auctions, raffles, sales, competitions, etc. Cause if a person doesn't just do it purely out of the good of their heart then it shouldn't count and their money should be rejected!

You go start a charity for kids and then help people like us for free and do it for 10 years, and then you can belittle charities.  Deal?

Modifié par Tyrzun, 23 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[VettoRyouzou]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Jayce F wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I have not seen what PAX or PA is doing. I am talking about right way to go about it and wrong way.  A simple change of stance and description and all could of been avoided. What I just said is how he viewed it going by his statements and as others in here have also agreed with his stance. I was more disgusted by some (not many) asking for donations back.

The goal was perfectly clear. You're being just as disengenuous as the PA crew  trying to make it seem otherwise.

It was perfectly clear the drive was a charity donation to a childrens charity. Anyone who was stupid enough to think otherwise must need help tying their shoes. Tycho completely blows any credibility he might've had by claiming the drive stopped cause 'they won' when it stopped because they pulled the plug.

It clearly was not "clear" at all. That is why they stopped it and that is why some idiots are asking for their money back.

Some idiots are asking for their money back because Penny Arcade turned the donation drive into a football by pressuring Retake to end it.

It's douchey to want your money back no matter the circumstances, but I can understand why some feel getting their money back is a way of disassociating their charitable donations from the behavior of Penny Arcade.

If you feel that way then you offend me that you simply do not understand how charity works and feel the need to blame others for such a simple error on your groups part. But I will overlook such since the money you did raise (apart from idiots asking for refunds), went to a good cause and the kids will be better off. I personally wish Retake had explained and expressed their attachment and reasons for donating in a more acceptable manner and not misled those idiots by how you expressed your affliliation so that it could of continued. 

Going to ask nicely to please stop the passive aggressive tone, insulting someone while patting them
on the back actually fuels flames of war, I respect your side and your stance but that not helping ETHER side.

Modifié par VettoRyouzou, 23 mars 2012 - 06:12 .

[Geirahod]

Now I get it.

But seriously, who cares if the donations were to get attention??, our main goal was to make kids happy. O.O
We're still feeling mentally ill because of the endings, but at least we did something good, we helped sick kids.

That's all we should care about and what those idiots from PA should care about.
After all it seems that they don't care about the kids either...because outside the RetakeME3 movement I'd never heard about that charity (I really question their hability to raise funds without our help)...still I donated money because I wanted to do it, not for other reasons.

and better yet, Child's play is now more known thanks to our movement, like it or not.

Modifié par Geirahod, 23 mars 2012 - 06:13 .

[garf]

SamFlagg wrote...

Something good was accomplished with all of this. 80,000 was raised.

DO NOT.  I repeat DO NOT try and tarnish it by calling out the charity because you think we should be able to dictate their long term interests.

DO NOT. I reapeat DO NOT try and rationalize or approve of or do anything less than call the utter hypocratic bull**** of anyone who tried to get their money back from a charitable donation.

THIS DRIVE WAS SOMETHING GOOD.

Each one of us can be proud that we did something good with it.  We're going to receive flak from all sides, some logic and some not.

But each one of us can stand tall.  Say I'm glad the money we raised went to a good cause.  And then move on.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOW YOURSELF TO GET MIRED IN SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A QUAGMIRE!

THIS!!!!

[Maria Caliban]

deimosmasque wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Then they could complain to the FTC and get laughed out the same way the person who complained about the ME 3 ending did. The onus would be on them to show how Child's Play defrauded them of money.

Charity donations have to be returned if raised fraudlently.

Yes, I am aware of that. That doesn't really address what I said.

[deimosmasque]

Jayce F wrote...

Which is part of the problem because a big chunk of the negative publicity was coming from Penny Arcade....

Define "Big Chunk"

[longtimecoming00]

CavScout wrote...

~stuff~

It appears the forum had some technical difficulties.

[Quietness]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Quietness wrote...

As for anyone charging any money back, for any reason at all, i really hope something terrible happens to their sexual reproductive organs and several other things. This money is going to sick children and its a flat out disgusting thing if people charge any of that back.

Oddly I wouldn't take it that far but it is not a nice thing to do, it is a charity regardless of why they think they are donating they should not be asking for their money back.

Sorry but if someone is just that thick, i dont want them contributing anything to the gene pool. I have also worked for far too many hours to describe for a major non-profit. I have seen people chargeback things and it affects a lot of people.

[SamFlagg]

charmedmeat wrote...

Kayjin23 wrote...

You know a lot of the posts in this thread are just proving that at least some people WERE using the charity as a shield. There's no reason to stop donating money if you want to donate money to help children. ALL they are asking is that you please stop trying to use it to support Retake Mass Effect 3. If so many of you will only donate when you can donate it under that banner, how are you NOT using it as a shield?

WHY IS USING THE CHARITY AS A SHIELD A PROBLEM?!?  

There seems to be this innate assumption that this is a bad thing.  It happens all the time.  It would be one thing for an extremely negative or controversial group to be doing this, but a group trying to combat negative stereotypes about gamers, donating money as a way to channel anger into a charity designed to combat negative stereotypes about gamers is not it.

Look, if I have money, and I can donate it to a charity, or I can donate it to a charity AND have it be tallied as part of RetakeME, I'm going to choose the latter right now.

That said, the PA folks have every right to say what they will do with their charity.  I disagree with many of their assertions in their statement, but again it's their call.  I do have to point out that this charity has been used by them to promote and support both PA and PAX, so I consider this move very hypocritical on their part.

The fact that people use charity as a shield is not a defense for doing so.  It is a good philosophical arguement to have, but like all philosophical arguements the time to have them is not right when controversy is at it's highest, because then it all gets mired in the politics of the situation and actual discussion of the issue becomes irrelevant.

If we've got any hope of not coming out of this like the bad guy, we shouldn't be trying to defend those who used it as a shield, or go on the offensive against PA. 

We should be meeting in the middle.  Shaking hands, donate the 80,000 and then say we were pleased to be a part of it.

THIS IS THE TIME TO DO GOOD, NOT SETTLE SCORES.

[Rob_Nix]

RedShft wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Actually as said a rediculous amount of times through-out the whole time of it.

It was used for people to turn all that crap feeling into something good. 

Sure it could have and should have been worded better, there was even a lot of debate about a week ago from simply removing the full retake portion out of the name, but it was decided against as that is what it originally operated under.

I understand your intent, but you have to realize how it looks from other peoples point of views and even the founders of ChildsPlay. 

Regardless of your intent, it can be perceived that you guys are using CP as leverage for your movement. Not to mention, the most important part of this is that the motives of your movement, to make a proper ending to ME3 (which I support), do not coincide with CP. 

This is important. Due to the fact that the motivations of your movement are at odds with the motivations of CP it can be perceived that you are using CP as a tool. 

I am not saying you guys are bad people. You just made a mistake. 

80k was raised for sick kids from our mistake.  Tool.

[IndustrializedTaco]

garf wrote...

beetlebailey123 wrote...

SamFlagg wrote...

beetlebailey123 wrote...

We were giving money to charity. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Even if we were using the charity as a "shield." The children still benefit. WHY SHUT THIS DOWN IT'S BULL****! We were doing good. Why ruin a good thing.

Because certain elements were starting to petition Pay Pay for give backs, and the long term goals of the charity were starting to be impacted by what is becoming negative publicity.

Whether or not it is fair that there is negative publicity isn't the issue.  The operators of the charity have both the right and duty to protect their long term charitable interests.

I understand now. I'm cool I've calmed down. Why did the people donate to charity thinking they were paying for the ending. When the thing said donate to childs play? Are people really that stupid? 

I'm a affraid so. sorry some people are indeed stupid, nearsighted, ignorant. and some of them fly our banner.

This is just unconceivable. I am so disappointed in this. I can't think of anything to say to these people.

[Kersca]

After reading the post my only issue now is why didn't they put a stop to this weeks ago when it was blatantly obvious what the retake people were using the charity for?

That said, there are many reasons to donate to charity. Altruism sadly is always far down that list.