526 réponses à ce sujet

[Nyila]

longtimecoming00 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

~stuff~

It appears the forum had some technical difficulties.

I'll hold your coffee!

[deimosmasque]

Maria Caliban wrote...

deimosmasque wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Then they could complain to the FTC and get laughed out the same way the person who complained about the ME 3 ending did. The onus would be on them to show how Child's Play defrauded them of money.

Charity donations have to be returned if raised fraudlently.

Yes, I am aware of that. That doesn't really address what I said.

You said they go to the FTC and get laughed out.  Unfortunately false advertising for Charities is not the same for Corporations.  Allowing a charity drive under the name "Retake Mass Effect" could be seen as false advertising right there. 

Since they spend most of their money actually doing things and not hiring lobbiests to buy legislations alot of the rules for charities puts the blame on the charity first rather than the consumer.

[IndustrializedTaco]

garf wrote...

SamFlagg wrote...

Something good was accomplished with all of this. 80,000 was raised.

DO NOT.  I repeat DO NOT try and tarnish it by calling out the charity because you think we should be able to dictate their long term interests.

DO NOT. I reapeat DO NOT try and rationalize or approve of or do anything less than call the utter hypocratic bull**** of anyone who tried to get their money back from a charitable donation.

THIS DRIVE WAS SOMETHING GOOD.

Each one of us can be proud that we did something good with it.  We're going to receive flak from all sides, some logic and some not.

But each one of us can stand tall.  Say I'm glad the money we raised went to a good cause.  And then move on.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOW YOURSELF TO GET MIRED IN SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A QUAGMIRE!

THIS!!!!

I second this.

[CavScout]

Geirahod wrote...

Now I get it.

But seriously, who cares if the donations were to get attention??, our main goal was to make kids happy.

If that was the main goal, then I hope you and others keep donating. If the donations stop because of this action then the main goal was RetakeME3.

Modifié par CavScout, 23 mars 2012 - 06:17 .

[Billabong2011]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I have to agree though. It took a video game ending to get people to donate.

While I agree with this morally, it's a sad world we live in, and charities as important as Child's Play should take donations anywhere they can get them. Not that we shouldn't aim to uphold integrity, but we have to be realistic about the world in which we live too.

No decision Penny Arcade made regarding this situation was going to be a 'winner.' It is what it is. I respect their decision.

[Tyrzun]

Rob_Nix wrote...

RedShft wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Actually as said a rediculous amount of times through-out the whole time of it.

It was used for people to turn all that crap feeling into something good. 

Sure it could have and should have been worded better, there was even a lot of debate about a week ago from simply removing the full retake portion out of the name, but it was decided against as that is what it originally operated under.

I understand your intent, but you have to realize how it looks from other peoples point of views and even the founders of ChildsPlay. 

Regardless of your intent, it can be perceived that you guys are using CP as leverage for your movement. Not to mention, the most important part of this is that the motives of your movement, to make a proper ending to ME3 (which I support), do not coincide with CP. 

This is important. Due to the fact that the motivations of your movement are at odds with the motivations of CP it can be perceived that you are using CP as a tool. 

I am not saying you guys are bad people. You just made a mistake. 

80k was raised for sick kids from our mistake.  Tool.

So, you must be against the Retake movement right?

Resorting to name calling makes us look SO good doesn't it?  

IF ANY of you have ANY hope of supporting holding the line.

You better delete all of our calous insults directed at people with enough compassion at them to run a charity for 10 years.  While you insult and name call others.

You know what, I wish you names were attacked to this stuff if it's ever posted to the Media.


You can pat yourselves on the back for instantly loosing all good faith we have earned.  Thanks a ton!

[Red Viking]

SamFlagg wrote...

Something good was accomplished with all of this. 80,000 was raised.

DO NOT.  I repeat DO NOT try and tarnish it by calling out the charity because you think we should be able to dictate their long term interests.

DO NOT. I reapeat DO NOT try and rationalize or approve of or do anything less than call the utter hypocratic bull**** of anyone who tried to get their money back from a charitable donation.

THIS DRIVE WAS SOMETHING GOOD.

Each one of us can be proud that we did something good with it.  We're going to receive flak from all sides, some logic and some not.

But each one of us can stand tall.  Say I'm glad the money we raised went to a good cause.  And then move on.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOW YOURSELF TO GET MIRED IN SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T HAVE
TO BE A QUAGMIRE!

*format edited because quagmire seems to drop off the page.*

Quoted for great justice.

[Xandax]

The majority of charities that people support are done so via campaigns.
Huge television shows to get people to donate to hungry Africans - paradox in itself - but it is how the world works.
Big recording artist records an album and lets profits go to something while racking in millions from all other which doesn't go anywhere but into the pockets.
And all other similar cases. Heck in many countries charity is deductible on tax returns.

People often need more motivation to do charity than just the charity - it's a fact of life.
This was no different. Now - I can 'understand' on some level that PA didn't want Childs Play to be associated with the movement, but ...... it was still money for the charity and if that alone (getting money) had been the goal of the charity, then it shouldn't have mattered much.

[Terraforming2154]

Eh, I can understand PA's reasonings, they seem sound.

I just don't think it is productive or fair for some people in this thread to be questioning or insulting the motivations of those who donated though. =/

[Nyila]

Billabong2011 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I have to agree though. It took a video game ending to get people to donate.

While I agree with this morally, it's a sad world we live in, and charities as important as Child's Play should take donations anywhere they can get them. Not that we shouldn't aim to uphold integrity, but we have to be realistic about the world in which we live too.

No decision Penny Arcade made regarding this situation was going to be a 'winner.' It is what it is. I respect their decision.

In the long run, they'll win, because people's rash decisions will create bad press for the whole movement.

[CronoDragoon]

Kersca wrote...

After reading the post my only issue now is why didn't they put a stop to this weeks ago when it was blatantly obvious what the retake people were using the charity for?

That said, there are many reasons to donate to charity. Altruism sadly is always far down that list.

Tycho said he was blindsided by how popular it became and that nothing like it had ever happened with Child's Play. I would take some time to sort out my feelings, too. The chargebacks were probably what decided it.

[Jayce]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

If you feel that way then you offend me that you simply do not understand how charity works and feel the need to blame others for such a very simple error easy to avoid on your groups part. But I will overlook such since the money you did raise (apart from idiots asking for refunds), went to a good cause and the kids will be better off. I personally wish Retake had explained and expressed their attachment and reasons for donating in a more acceptable manner and not misled those idiots by how you expressed your affliliation so that it could of continued. 

I've been an active organizer, fundraiser and donator to the Royal British Legion for over 20 years. Please quit assuming you're the only one here who knows anythng about how charities function.

[Tyrzun]

OP please please delete this thread or at least change the topic into something resembling gibberish!

It's obvious no mods are on and these people are burying the Retake movement!!!  

Modifié par Tyrzun, 23 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[deimosmasque]

Kersca wrote...

After reading the post my only issue now is why didn't they put a stop to this weeks ago when it was blatantly obvious what the retake people were using the charity for?

That said, there are many reasons to donate to charity. Altruism sadly is always far down that list.

I think the reason it wasn't done before now was because it hadn't become a burden yet.  I suspect the flood of e-mails saying "When/how much before our new endings" wasn't extreme until about Tuesday this week.  Then they had to meet and decide... talk to paypal... meet and decide... talk to publicist... meet and decide.  Then finally make their decision today.

However, agreed entirely on the last part, which is a sad thing.  Unfortunately, it seems "Tax Break" is the biggest reason to.

[RedShft]

Rob_Nix wrote...

RedShft wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Actually as said a rediculous amount of times through-out the whole time of it.

It was used for people to turn all that crap feeling into something good. 

Sure it could have and should have been worded better, there was even a lot of debate about a week ago from simply removing the full retake portion out of the name, but it was decided against as that is what it originally operated under.

I understand your intent, but you have to realize how it looks from other peoples point of views and even the founders of ChildsPlay. 

Regardless of your intent, it can be perceived that you guys are using CP as leverage for your movement. Not to mention, the most important part of this is that the motives of your movement, to make a proper ending to ME3 (which I support), do not coincide with CP. 

This is important. Due to the fact that the motivations of your movement are at odds with the motivations of CP it can be perceived that you are using CP as a tool. 

I am not saying you guys are bad people. You just made a mistake. 

80k was raised for sick kids from our mistake.  Tool.

You obviously can't or won't see it from the non-profits perspective. You have no say in it, you're wrong. The founders of CP don't like how you handled their organization, get over it.

[longtimecoming00]

Again, why don't you guys donate to a charity that plants trees? It's so unprovocative that no one else will care.

[charmedmeat]

SamFlagg wrote...

charmedmeat wrote...

Kayjin23 wrote...

You know a lot of the posts in this thread are just proving that at least some people WERE using the charity as a shield. There's no reason to stop donating money if you want to donate money to help children. ALL they are asking is that you please stop trying to use it to support Retake Mass Effect 3. If so many of you will only donate when you can donate it under that banner, how are you NOT using it as a shield?

WHY IS USING THE CHARITY AS A SHIELD A PROBLEM?!?  

There seems to be this innate assumption that this is a bad thing.  It happens all the time.  It would be one thing for an extremely negative or controversial group to be doing this, but a group trying to combat negative stereotypes about gamers, donating money as a way to channel anger into a charity designed to combat negative stereotypes about gamers is not it.

Look, if I have money, and I can donate it to a charity, or I can donate it to a charity AND have it be tallied as part of RetakeME, I'm going to choose the latter right now.

That said, the PA folks have every right to say what they will do with their charity.  I disagree with many of their assertions in their statement, but again it's their call.  I do have to point out that this charity has been used by them to promote and support both PA and PAX, so I consider this move very hypocritical on their part.

The fact that people use charity as a shield is not a defense for doing so.  It is a good philosophical arguement to have, but like all philosophical arguements the time to have them is not right when controversy is at it's highest, because then it all gets mired in the politics of the situation and actual discussion of the issue becomes irrelevant.

If we've got any hope of not coming out of this like the bad guy, we shouldn't be trying to defend those who used it as a shield, or go on the offensive against PA. 

We should be meeting in the middle.  Shaking hands, donate the 80,000 and then say we were pleased to be a part of it.

THIS IS THE TIME TO DO GOOD, NOT SETTLE SCORES.

I agree with your points.  Now, where exactly did I state we should go on any offensive?  If anything, we should find another charity ASAP to hit 100K!

[Billabong2011]

Nyila wrote...

Billabong2011 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I have to agree though. It took a video game ending to get people to donate.

While I agree with this morally, it's a sad world we live in, and charities as important as Child's Play should take donations anywhere they can get them. Not that we shouldn't aim to uphold integrity, but we have to be realistic about the world in which we live too.

No decision Penny Arcade made regarding this situation was going to be a 'winner.' It is what it is. I respect their decision.

In the long run, they'll win, because people's rash decisions will create bad press for the whole movement.

I think raising money for children over the last 10 years has already garnered them a victory.........

[Qutayba]

It's already been posted in this thread, but if you have not already, please read Tycho's explanation.  It makes a lot of sense.  It wasn't just the political use of the charity.  It was becoming a logistical nightmare, and a lot of donors didn't quite understand what they were signing up for.  These are reasons enough.

http://penny-arcade....ake-mass-effect

I'm disappointed, too, but let's recognize class when you see it.  They kept it going as long as they could.  If it was indeed political, they would have stopped it last week.

We did the right thing by giving, but so did they.  Do NOT troll them.

[VettoRyouzou]

longtimecoming00 wrote...

Again, why don't you guys donate to a charity that plants trees? It's so unprovocative that no one else will care.

Something tells me with this subject it could be "Save the Narwhals" and turn it into a hot button, this has going out of control on both sides and all around.

Going to say it I actually MISS the LI wars.

Modifié par VettoRyouzou, 23 mars 2012 - 06:20 .

[CronoDragoon]

RedShft wrote...

You obviously can't or won't see it from the non-profits perspective. You have no say in it, you're wrong. The founders of CP don't like how you handled their organization, get over it.

Calling it a mistake implies that you would hop in a time travel machine and prevent that 80k from going to Child's Play. If that's how you really feel, so be it.

[charmedmeat]

Kersca wrote...

After reading the post my only issue now is why didn't they put a stop to this weeks ago when it was blatantly obvious what the retake people were using the charity for?

That said, there are many reasons to donate to charity. Altruism sadly is always far down that list.

That's an easy one, they wanted to wait until the donations slowed down!

[SamFlagg]

Xandax wrote...

The majority of charities that people support are done so via campaigns.
Huge television shows to get people to donate to hungry Africans - paradox in itself - but it is how the world works.
Big recording artist records an album and lets profits go to something while racking in millions from all other which doesn't go anywhere but into the pockets.
And all other similar cases. Heck in many countries charity is deductible on tax returns.

People often need more motivation to do charity than just the charity - it's a fact of life.
This was no different. Now - I can 'understand' on some level that PA didn't want Childs Play to be associated with the movement, but ...... it was still money for the charity and if that alone (getting money) had been the goal of the charity, then it shouldn't have mattered much.

What matters is long term impact on the charities ability to raise funds.

In the same vein, before this thing started getting news coverage and that sort of thing it was a drive that could be safely ascribed to a group of gamers trying to funnel their frustrations into something good.  But as it picked up steam then we started to encounter some of the bad associated with trying to do something this large, and that's why someone had to step in.

We did our part, and now maybe some more people know about the Child's Play charity.

But it was also time to make sure that what they know of it isn't "Oh that's that angry gamer charity"

There are more moving pieces to this whole puzzle than just the people who donated and the people accepting the donations.  A judgement call was made, and I think its the judgement call that does the most for raising for charity while not associating the charity with what could be long term negative publicity.

[M12311]

Qutayba wrote...

It's already been posted in this thread, but if you have not already, please read Tycho's explanation.  It makes a lot of sense.  It wasn't just the political use of the charity.  It was becoming a logistical nightmare, and a lot of donors didn't quite understand what they were signing up for.  These are reasons enough.

http://penny-arcade....ake-mass-effect

I'm disappointed, too, but let's recognize class when you see it.  They kept it going as long as they could.  If it was indeed political, they would have stopped it last week.

We did the right thing by giving, but so did they.  Do NOT troll them.

They posted that excuse 9 hours AFTER the main donation thread announced that Penny Arcade pressured them to end the donation drive.

[CyanidPontifex]

If they don't want us, I'm sure there are other charities we can get behind.