526 réponses à ce sujet

[Shavyer]

"charity" and "tool" are the same thing since Man is Man.

charity = guilty
charity = publicity
charity = altruism
charity = reputation
charity = fame

[Nyila]

magikbbg wrote...

Vorodill wrote...

Hmm... these guys have to learn a little more about human nature. People always give to get something in return (the "something" can be simple satisfaction).

Too bad. Well, it DID help kids. Just don't buy them ME3.

HAHA what a waste of money it would be if they were given Copies of ME3 with the our donations from Retake. hahahaha

I hope not.. It's still rated M..

[yoshibb]

I understand his point but at the same time, the goal of the charity was very clear that it had nothing to do with buying new endings. If they can't read that, then they are idiots. If they ask for a refund, tell them no. They have no basis in demanding one.

Secondly, an organized drive like this will earn a lot more money then people just doing it on their own. I know people are saying just donate on your own, which a lot of people will do. But having a drive like this encourages people to donate more because everyone else is doing it. They want to be a part of the cause.

Thirdly, it doesn't matter where the money came from, it's going to those kids, no strings attached. When you stopped it, you stopped thousands of more dollars getting to those kids simply because you don't agree with Retake ME3's reasons. You can defend your point all you want but that's what happened. We raised 80000 in little over a week and you stopped that? It's money, there's no stamp on it saying from Retake ME3 on it.

[magikbbg]

Shavyer wrote...

"charity" and "tool" are the same thing since Man is Man.

charity = guilty
charity = publicity
charity = altruism
charity = reputation
charity = fame

[bleachorange]

I'm not convinced this wasn't due to outside pressure, but if the charity owner gave those reasons, so be it. I understnad and even agree with his reasoning, but am sad to see it happen. still, it's okay to still donate, it just won't be counted toward me3 using a counting app.

[msp]

The Angry One wrote...
I assume therefore that they will no longer accept any developer promotions or anything of the sort for CP as they have in the past. After all, one shouldn't donate for ulterior motives.

To be honest, I was under the impression that they did not allow this stuff - they outright say that they do not do "buy our crap and we'll donate 1% of the proceeds to X" type of fundraisers, for example.

If this is incorrect, they are certainly... err... not very consistent about it, shall we say. Or want to retain absolute control over who is allowed to attached themselves to the cause. 

Modifié par msp, 23 mars 2012 - 05:41 .

[M12311]

As the main point of contact for Child’s Play, Jamie has been buried under mail about this situation. Apparently some of the people giving to the cause seemed to think that they were paying for a new ending to Mass Effect. She’s been asked what the goal is, and how much they need to raise in order to get the ending produced. We’ve also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back. This is in addition to readers who simply couldn’t understand how this was connected to Child’s Play’s mission. We were dealing with a lot of very confused people, more every day, and that told us we had a problem.

Anyone has the timeline on this post? According to their site they posted this excuse way AFTER they shut down the charity. If this is true I am not suprised about the "high number" of refund asks.

The original donation drive founder updated their thread this morning announcing that they effectively pressured them to shut down the donation drive, and makes no mention of this excuse in their update as a rationale.

I call BS on the refunds being the reason for the charity shutdown. Those came after they stopped the drive.

[Vengilus]

Midarc2nd wrote...

The only thing I hope is that when everything is over, one way or another, ChildsPlay would be open to recieving further (perhaps annual) group donations from whatever we become when 'retake' no longer applies.

We did a good thing.
The people who started it did so as a way of using our enthusiasm in a positive direction to the betterment of others.
There's nothing to say we can't do it again.

Perhaps when the attention, divisiveness and associated problems of everything that's going on has faded.

Thank you. /salute

[The Angry One]

deimosmasque wrote...

Bull!  Read their own statement.  People were actually contacting paypal and canceling their donations when they realized it was Child's Play not "New Mass Effect Ending."  It has nothing to do with bias or their relationship with Bioware.  Gabe and Tycho could live off their PAX money alone. 

Yes let's judge every donator on the actions of a few idiots.

If you want to promote a charity fine, promote the charity.  If you want to attach your own groups goals to that charity drive, then you are in the wrong.  If only because you are confusing those who donate.

Using charities to promote causes is done all the time, the reasons for donating were made clear.
If a handful of people were to dense to understand they were donating to a charity that is nobody else's fault.

Think of it this way, divorced from the 'ending controversy:'

If the 'League of Christians Against Abortion' suddenly started raising money for an orgainzation that was meant to watchdown malpractice in hospitals and free clinics.  And part of the LoCaA stated as their mission "To elimiate and criminalize the abortion problem in the USA and abroad," do you think that organization would really think that money was just because those poeple believed in malpractice watchdoging? 

Would those donating only think they were donating only to watchdog malpractice?  Or would they think their donation would help the stated goal of "eliminating the abortion problem?"

Slippery slope fallacies again.

[Lmaoboat]

Eh, I can see both sides. On one hand, it does come off as kinda of a political move, though I don't think that was the intent of the original organizers, on the other hand, they channeled a lot of anger and disappointment to something positive.

[Xivai]

They think WE'RE the entitled ones?! What madness and hypocrisy is this! They're doing this because their vain ego wants their charity to "look" good. But oh **** it if it's making money for children. I understand in some cases this might be an issue like a donation to support murder or some outlandish one. But this? Because they think we don't deserve a new ending they're going to pull the plug on lots of children gaming. Good job. You put the being a douche in the bag.

[KingNothing125]

OP acted like a jerk, swearing in the very first tweet? Way to start a civil conversation, holmes.

I went to PAX Prime 2011, and I actually met Tycho while standing in line to get in. They're both very cool dudes, and you guys are all acting like they're mustache twirling supervillains, "MWAHAHA, OUR BIOWARE OVERMASTERS WILL BE PLEASED!"

Give it a rest, seriously. When people complain about "Retake", all they need to do is look in this thread to reinforce their preconceived notions that you're all a bunch of entitled whiners.

You guys used the charity for your own personal gain... a bit like the guys who tried to raffle off a ME3 Space Edition, give 30% of the money to Child's Play and oh, keep 70% for themselves. Totally altruistic.

Did Child's Play send you your money back? Well show that you're good sports and give it right back to them, no strings or messages attached.

[Quietness]

NeecHMonkeY wrote...

Wow... just wow.
I hope they refunded the money that was raised.

No , i dont want any of the money back, it was for sick kids and the main point of it was for people to gain some kind of good out of all the bs.

If anyone charged back on their donations they should go rot.

[Neow]

They can stop accepting the donation from "Retake", but taking down the page simply rings "We've taken your money, but we're not crediting you for it."

There are anonymous donors, there are donors that deserve acknowledgement.

I'm not saying they should gave the money back, taking the page down is just a display of unappreciative.

Modifié par Neow, 23 mars 2012 - 05:44 .

[charmedmeat]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

defenestrated wrote...

Cody211282 wrote...

So he is refusing money for a charity because he doesn't agree with us? WTF

He's not refusing money but the ChipIn for RetakeME3 is no more because he doesn't want Child's Play associated with any causes that aren't Child's Play.

Thats how I read it too and to be honest it is a valid reason. A charity is not one groups way to attack another group, it should not be for personal gain. A way that could avoided them no longer being linked would of been simple soultion like another person said of changing your stance and description used to drum up donations. It should of been along the lines of give to the charity so at least some good can come from your disappointment but that is not what was done. It was donate to the charity in support of your cause. The latter ethically wrong, the former is completley acceptable. I am glad the charity got some money for the kids but you as a group should of gone about it in another way however because if did as I just explained he would not have had to take such action.

So then why did the PA folks use that same charity to promote PA?  Why did they use it to promote PAX?

[Daedalus1773]

Cody211282 wrote...

So he is refusing money for a charity because he doesn't agree with us? WTF

No. Actually, Tycho tends to agree with us. The reasoning is here:

http://penny-arcade....ake-mass-effect 

The post:

You have almost certainly heard of “Retake Mass Effect” by now. One of many grassroots efforts to get a new ending to Mass Effect 3, it’s part community, part online petition, and part (here is where things get complicated) Child’s Play Donation Drive. They have stopped taking donations now partly because they basically won and partly because we don’t know how to feel about this use of the charity.As the main point of contact for Child’s Play, Jamie has been buried under mail about this situation.  Apparently some of the people giving to the cause seemed to think that they were paying for a new ending to Mass Effect. She’s been asked what the goal is, and how much they need to raise in order to get the ending produced. We’ve also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back.  This is in addition to readers who simply couldn’t understand how this was connected to Child’s Play’s mission.  We were dealing with a lot of very confused people, more every day, and that told us we had a problem.We have policies in place to deal with direct abuse: we don’t allow companies to use Child’s Play in order to sell more stuff.  To that end we do not allow deals like “1 cent of every dollar goes to Child’s Play!” or whatever.  But this isn’t anywhere on that continuum!  This is a passionate community that formed around one thing, and some of that passion was expressed in charitable giving.  I actually support this cause, but I am a pessimist, and I’m thinking about the next time something like this happens - when someone attaches Child’s Play to something we can’t get behind, or leverages your history of generosity and fellow feeling for their own weird bull****.  So, we need to have something like a policy on this.  This is the best way I can think to say it:Child’s Play cannot be a tool to draw attention to a cause.  Child’s Play must be the Cause.[/b]Nothing like this has ever happened in the almost ten years the charity has been running, so it kind of threw me for a loop.  Thanks for listening.(CW)TB

Modifié par Daedalus1773, 23 mars 2012 - 05:43 .

[Goroxx]

People need to learn to ignore Gabe; he's been against the goals of the Retake movement from the beginning, and his belittling comments over the course of all this reflect this.

Tycho's responses are much more thoughtful, and his response on their page tonight is a good one, and its perfectly understandable. I do find it ironic that the charity - which was founded to help kids and combat the negative stereotype of gamers - finds itself rewriting policy because gamers giving to the charity did in fact raise money to help kids and combated the negative stereotype of, well...gamers.

But in the end, we did Good Works, and that's all that matters.

Paragons, indeed.

[Xandurpein]

Would it be unfair to speculate that some major Game producers, like maybe EA, donate a lot of big money to this charity and that EA have now threatened to withdraw their money?

Edit: Apparently this was due to peole asking money back when they realized this was a charity, not money to actually somehow finance a new ending. Makes me sad people should act like that. Still, might as well man up and apologize to EA for my hasty words.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 23 mars 2012 - 06:43 .

[VettoRyouzou]

Going to kindly hope some of the RT3 will listen and just back out of this, this is quickly becoming a bad road to walk down.

[Nuclear Pete]

CavScout wrote...

Nuclear Pete wrote...

How is this any differant to McDonald's supporting charities?

You really see RetakeME as a corporation?

Not really the point, mate.

Those that donated only voiced dissatisfaction with a game. Nobody is profiting from this.

To turn away money like that makes no sense.

Modifié par Nuclear Pete, 23 mars 2012 - 05:46 .

[RogueBot]

I sorta get where they're coming from, but it still seems like such a small thing when you consider the money that's being raised for kids.

[Marixus99.9]

Again people .. read the 2nd page link ... oh well : /

[Actinguy1]

leondes1 wrote...

Actinguy1 wrote...

Greetings, super friends!  Like many of you, I was appalled by Penny Arcade's decision to shut down the charity.  I tweeted "Tycho" and "Gabe" (Penny Arcade's founders) about my dismay.  Gabe was kind enough to respond.  I am @TheFroats.

 @TheFroats:
@cwgabriel @TychoBrahe We say, here, free money to go buy sick children toys...and you say NO??? Have you guys lost your God Damned MINDS?

@TheFroats:
@cwgabriel @TychoBrahe CP used to be about helping kids and combating negative gamer stereotypes. What changed? You forgot your mission.

@cwgabriel:
@TheFroats I don't know what to tell you man. If you read what Jamie said and still think that way I'm sorry.

@TheFroats
I did and I do. If someone says "Support child's play if you like Kiddie Porn", shut that down, totally. But a blanket policy?

@cwgabriel:
@TheFroats Child's Play is not a tool to draw attention to your cause. Child's Play is the cause. That's our feeling on it.

@TheFroats
@cwgabriel It was not a tool to draw attention. It was a tool to fight a negative stereotype...which is why you guys created it, remember?

@cwgabriel:
@TheFroats it's not your tool to fight your negative stereotype. you can not use the charity as a shield.

@TheFroats
@cwgabriel It was a tool to fight "our" negative stereotype...the one you created the charity to fight. Gamers. Not ME3 detractors. Gamers.

@TheFroats
@cwgabriel Maybe I can't change your mind. But you were one of the good guys...and you broke my heart tonight. We wanted to help and we did.

@cwgabriel
@TheFroats I'm sorry man. I hope me taking the time to talk with you about it at least shows you that I care about it.

@TheFroats
@cwgabriel I don't doubt you care, I doubt that you're making the right call. Who's helping the kids, who's hurting them? Thx for your time.
-------------------------------------------------------
Thought I'd post this so people at least can see where they're coming from.  Am I wrong?  Is he?

Don't know if anyone told you this, but forward this to forbes. Seriously.

I appreciate that support, but no.  We gain nothing by causing more problems for Child's Play.  I have no qualms about causing problems for Penny Arcade...or bringing attention to problems they're creating for themselves...and I say that as someone who owns the Penny Arcade series on DVD>  But to cause problems for the charity itself?  We'd be doing a whole lot of bad for ourselves, to say nothing of the children.

[Xivai]

This is what I think.

[A_Lone_Gamer]

I get where they are coming from, that child's play needs to be the cause. However they have hardly been neutral in this whole affair so it's kinda hard to think that if they were on our side that they'd still be doing this.

Given Explanation:
http://penny-arcade....ake-mass-effect

Shown Opinion:
http://penny-arcade....icious-invasion
http://penny-arcade....3/14/chronoloop
http://penny-arcade....es-are-effected