328 réponses à ce sujet

[Roxlimn]

 Somehow, I can't imagine how this game can possibly bill itself as "dark" fantasy when the iconic fantasy staples in Western culture - Grimm Fairy Tales and Lord of the Rings, for instance, go into so much more horrible things than it does.

Cannibalism, rape, torture, war, betrayal - all staples of normal and high fantasy.  What's so freaking dark about Dragon Age?

If anything, Dragon Age is significantly more innocent.  For instance, the game reveals the fact that a Grey Warden has to die in order to kill the Archdemon and it's such a huge deal in terms of sacrifice and all that jazz.  That's complete BS.  It's a big deal because the player expects (and the game assumes) that everyone important to the player character lives through and past the climactic conflicts of the Age.

If this were a Grimm Brothers Fairy Tale, this would not be a point of sacrifice but of honor - being only one of three people capable of slaying the Archdemon on the field, everyone else should be more than willing to die just so you get your chance.  That means THEY DIE before you do.  If I were army commander, I'd stick an entire elite regiment to the Grey Warden and tell the damn fool not to risk getting into any fight until the demon shows its head.  Heck, I'd assign a Mage and a Champion just to chaperone them around.

Sure, you die at the end.  So did thousands of other people.  Why is your life worth more?  Why is it that in the climactic conflict of the Age, nearly NO ONE dies at the roof of Fort Drakon except for Darkspawn and the Archdemon.  It's like it's GI Joe!

If this were Lord of the Rings, half your party would be dead along with you, or at least permanently crippled.  Frodo ended the War with nine fingers and his health shattered - and this is considered an uncommonly happy ending.  Many of Aragorn's Ranger friends died.  Haldir died.  Theoden died.  Theodred died.  How many major characters die in this game?  2?  3?

In Lord of the Rings, Saruman, who you thought was your freaking Leader, turned out to sell you out to the Dark Lord.  Denethor, who you thought was at least a replacement, turned out to be not much better.  How many times are you backstabbed out of the blue in this game?  None.

I know it's all just marketing hype, but does anyone seriously refer to this game as dark?  Dark compared to what?  Rainbow Brite?

[Taleroth]

It tries to bill itself more as DARK HEROIC fantasy.

Which I guess is their way of saying "there's lots of blood" and "it's okay for your hero to be a jerk."

Modifié par Taleroth, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:09 .

[eschilde]

Well, it had its dark bits. Like the broodmother. Or the orphanage.

[The Angry One]

The thing about Lord of the Rings is that they were all level 1 noobs, except for Aragorn, who was level 3, and Gandalf, who was a freaking hax0r.

[ReubenLiew]

It's no 40k, but it has it's moments.

[Roxlimn]

Sparhawk was a jerk, too, and David Eddings is about as traditional high fantasy as you get. For that matter, Tanis was a self-absorbed, moody, jerk of a hero. Lots of heroes are jerks. Elric of Melniborne was. Conan was an amoral, selfish, Machiavellian ****. This is normal.

The Broodmother segment was about violation and corruption.  The Dark Lord is all about violation and corruption.  What kinds of horrid things do you think they did to Gollum?  Gollum himself is Broodmother, but much more disturbing, since he isn't only tortured in goodness knows how many ways - but his mind was overthrown by addiction.  The orphanage was creepy, but not much more so than the Path of the Dead.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:16 .

[Bibdy]

Sorry if you were expecting hardcore tentacle rape of under 16 year olds, living people getting sawn in half and naked genitals every 3 inches.

[Herr Uhl]

Yes, the fact the grey warden killing the archdemon traditionally dies is the "dark" part in this game.



Not the raping of second citizen elves, social outcasting of the casteless, imprisonment of magi and destruction of the country.

[Noble_House]

Compared to, say, Neverwinter Nights, yeah.



But I agree with you completely. Characters spouting comic relief?! Not a single party member who will actually die an unavoidable death in the entire game? No treachery?



Mind you, it's still the best RPG in this aspect that I've played, but yes - it could be much better.

[Bhatair]

Well, Dark Fantasy sounds better than "Candle lit" Fantasy..no?

[eschilde]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Yes, the fact the grey warden killing the archdemon traditionally dies is the "dark" part in this game.

Not the raping of second citizen elves, social outcasting of the casteless, imprisonment of magi and destruction of the country.

What, that doesn't sound like a good time to you?

[Taleroth]

I would have settled for random party banter leading to members attack each other. In some ways, Baldur's Gate was even darker.

[The Angry One]

You do realise some of you are comparing this single Dragon Age game to entire sagas?

The first in a series is traditionally the most upbeat, relatively speaking. Look at what they're promising for Mass Effect 2 (how much makes it to the final product of course remains to be seen).

[Bhatair]

Honestly, this game does the whole 'morality' thing better than any I've seen before it.

[Roxlimn]

The raping and slavery of the Elves and the Casteless are portrayed well in this game because it depicts them as despicable acts. In Grimm tales, this is portrayed as normal. In Arthurian fantasy, any knight could have his way with a peasant woman in whatever way he deems fit and not be less of a hero for it. Isn't that darker?

In Tolkien lore, the Rohirrim drove the Men of the Hills from their homes using goodness know what methods, but whatever it was, the Men of the Hills hated their guts for it. Given that they were prone to think of the Men of the Hills as animals, I can only imagine what kinds of atrocities they routinely commit.

At no point in this game does your character take slaves and beat them for it and exploit them for it.  Normal in Arthurian tales.  At no point in this game does your character talk about the wholesale slaughter of cities, men, women, and children, as if it were normal policy.  Conan might.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:23 .

[Bibdy]

Roxlimn wrote...

The raping and slavery of the Elves and the Casteless are portrayed well in this game because it depicts them as despicable acts. In Grimm tales, this is portrayed as normal. In Arthurian fantasy, any knight could have his way with a peasant woman in whatever way he deems fit and not be less of a hero for it. Isn't that darker?

In Tolkien lore, the Rohirrim drove the Men of the Hills from their homes using goodness know what methods, but whatever it was, the Men of the Hills hated their guts for it. Given that they were prone to think of the Men of the Hills as animals, I can only imagine what kinds of atrocities they routinely commit.

...so? Yes, its darker. Well done. You were able to place it on a chart and say that A is darker than B. Good job.

That doesn't make B any less dark.

Heck, you just described the Orlesian Chevaliers in that first paragraph, with the whole 'raping and plundering the riches of any woman's drawer's they so wish' thing going on.

Just because you've been desensitized so such things over the years, doesn't make this a fricking lovely roses, petals and happy bunny-fluffybears approach to fantasy story-telling.

Modifié par Bibdy, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:25 .

[ReubenLiew]

The Angry One wrote...

You do realise some of you are comparing this single Dragon Age game to entire sagas?
The first in a series is traditionally the most upbeat, relatively speaking. Look at what they're promising for Mass Effect 2 (how much makes it to the final product of course remains to be seen).

I don't see why something needs to be long and overdrawn to have the setting planned out before.
I mean, if we take the Slaves to Darkness book from Warhammer, that was the earliest book on Chaos, and that was dark as hell. They had to tone it down later on because seriously some of that s**t is NOT meant for kids.

[Karl45]

I dont get it, almost everything you mentioned here is in the game.



Cannabalism(not really, but people are force-fed darkspawn, and turn into monstrosities) Rape(yes), torture(yes), war(yes), betrayal(yes).



"Why is it that in the climactic conflict of the Age, nearly NO ONE dies at the roof of Fort Drakon except for Darkspawn and the Archdemon.?" Did you miss the part where you collect a giant army to use at your disposal in the final battle?



"How many times are you backstabbed out of the blue in this game? None."

Yeah except for that time Loghain leaves you, the king, the grey wardens and a giant army to die in first few hours of the game.(there are also other betrayals)



"If this were Lord of the Rings, half your party would be dead along with you, or at least permanently crippled. Frodo ended the War with nine fingers and his health shattered"



Frodo was a little wiener, if it were really as dark as you were making it out to be, he would have been killed in the first chapter.





Im not saying its that dark, but your not petting kittens and hugging rainbows either.

[The Angry One]

Roxlimn wrote...

The raping and slavery of the Elves and the Casteless are portrayed well in this game because it depicts them as despicable acts. In Grimm tales, this is portrayed as normal. In Arthurian fantasy, any knight could have his way with a peasant woman in whatever way he deems fit and not be less of a hero for it. Isn't that darker?

No, it's just vulgar.
Besides which, the rape events depicted here in the City Elf origin for example are told from the perspective of the victims.
Of-bloody-course it's going to be shown as despicable, you're on the receiving end of it!

To say nothing of the fact that you can just let the other girls stay and be raped some more in exchange for money. Not dark enough for you?

[Roxlimn]

What it means is that normal fantasy is darker than this so-called dark fantasy. Since the norm is darker, then shouldn't Dragon Age be called "Light-hearted fantasy?"

[The Angry One]

ReubenLiew wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

You do realise some of you are comparing this single Dragon Age game to entire sagas?
The first in a series is traditionally the most upbeat, relatively speaking. Look at what they're promising for Mass Effect 2 (how much makes it to the final product of course remains to be seen).

I don't see why something needs to be long and overdrawn to have the setting planned out before.
I mean, if we take the Slaves to Darkness book from Warhammer, that was the earliest book on Chaos, and that was dark as hell. They had to tone it down later on because seriously some of that s**t is NOT meant for kids.

40k practically self-pleasures itself on it's grimdarkness, it has an excuse.

[Bibdy]

Roxlimn wrote...

What it means is that normal fantasy is darker than this so-called dark fantasy. Since the norm is darker, then shouldn't Dragon Age be called "Light-hearted fantasy?"

Who defines the NORM here? What do you think Dragon Age's competition is here? Super-cannibal bloodgore rapefest IV?

[The Angry One]

Bibdy wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

What it means is that normal fantasy is darker than this so-called dark fantasy. Since the norm is darker, then shouldn't Dragon Age be called "Light-hearted fantasy?"

Who defines the NORM here? What do you think Dragon Age's competition is here? Super-cannibal bloodgore rapefest IV?

Urgh, now you've done it. Watch somebody try to bring up The Witcher or Gothic as grand examples of dark fantasy when they're really just generic GRIMDARK affairs with attempts to shock-and-horror.

[ReubenLiew]

That wasn't even 40k, that was fantasy, which as we all know is slightly more light-hearted than 40k

Besides the earliest concepts of fantasy was supposed to be light-hearted, but satirical and also slightly disturbing in it's own way. Even in it's concept stage it had an idea how dark it wanted to be.



I'm not saying that DA isn't dark, mind you, it's pretty shadowy on it's own right, just saying sagas aren't the only ones with allowances to be grimdark!

[Bhatair]

Have you played the Dwarf Noble origin? It's basically everything you're babbling about.