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[Lotion Soronarr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Second of all, your grasp of LotR is twisted, at best. Gandalf died at the peak of Zirakzigil and for all intends and purposes he was gone, and would not be able to return to finish his job. Not even the power of the Valar could save him. Only by the intervention of Eru Illuvatar did Gandalf get ressurected, to finish his job.

Actually no. No one but Eru Iluvatar can REALLY kill a Valar or Maiar. Their physical bodies can be destroyed and they can be weakened enough to be powerless, but they are not really dead.
Saruman, Sauron and Gandalf are all clear examples of this.

[Roxlimn]

Obadiah:



You ARE indicting most of the world and yourself as evil, then? You know there is such a thing as widespread hunger and conflict in the real world, right? And all those criminals? Do you go out at night and wear a mask and make sure your entire city is safe?



That is a slippery slope, and no real moral structure condemns you for being evil for not being a fanatic subscriber to that structure - unless you're a fanatic yourself, belong to a fanatic cult, and believe that taking down tall structures is everyone's obligation.



EmperorSahlertz:



Eru does not directly interfere with the events in Middle-Earth since that was a charge that he left to Manwe. Only once did the Valar lay down their responsibility and duty and that was during the invasion of the Undying Lands by the Numenoreans.



Gandalf is a Maiar - he is bound to the world and cannot leave it until it is unmade, just like the Valar can't. In that he was bound to a physical form as an Istari, he can die, which is what he is referring to when he says "I have been through fire and death," but he can't really be destroyed. He's a lot like Sauron in that sense. Look it up in the Silmarillion.



Given that you don't even know all of this, I wouldn't say that I was the one who has a "twisted" interpretation of LoTR lore.

So first of all you are a guy who is all about: The end justify the means. Which pretty much explains your point of view.

You're mistaken. I'm NOT given to "the ends justify the means." I am simply familiar with many moral systems, and apparently more familiar with any one than you yourself. Tell me, what theology are you getting your moral principles from, anyway? I get the feeling that the deepest reference you can base your moral principles on is a comic book.



There are such things as sins of omission in Christian faith, but in the case of Redcliffe, you DO have other priorities and other responsibilities. It is not your responsibility to see to the responsibilities of others, particularly when your own duties are still left undone. Your character is no more morally beholden to rescue Redcliffe than she is to evacuate Lothering (and in fact, you're not even given a choice to direct your character to do this).



Rescuing Redcliffe and getting the Arl's support are political strategies, not moral obligations. You are there to get the Arl's support in order to win the civil war in order to get a chance to kill the Archdemon, which is your primary moral obligation.



Don't foist your prefabricated pop-moral psychologies on me!

[Lughsan35]

Roxlimn wrote...

Sparhawk was a jerk, too, and David Eddings is about as traditional high fantasy as you get. For that matter, Tanis was a self-absorbed, moody, jerk of a hero. Lots of heroes are jerks. Elric of Melniborne was. Conan was an amoral, selfish, Machiavellian ****. This is normal.

The Broodmother segment was about violation and corruption.  The Dark Lord is all about violation and corruption.  What kinds of horrid things do you think they did to Gollum?  Gollum himself is Broodmother, but much more disturbing, since he isn't only tortured in goodness knows how many ways - but his mind was overthrown by addiction.  The orphanage was creepy, but not much more so than the Path of the Dead.

Nope that's Dark or Anti-Heros

Normal is Lord of the Rings.. the Happy happy joy joy of Earthsea...and others were GOOD is GOOD and EVIL IS EVIL.

[Roxlimn]

Earthsea? Happy, happy joy? We ARE talking about a series where the "hero" tried to summon a Spirit of the Dead (a forbidden practice) and in so doing released a force that not only killed the leader of his order that escapes to wreak havoc on the world? A Spirit that will continually and relentlessly hunt him down so that it can take over his body and then become a walking disaster?



Here, we are talking about a series where the very spirits of the earth you're walking are evil malicious entities who would like nothing better than to crush and destroy whatever they can get their hands on.



"Happy happy joy?" This is "happy happy joy?"



In Lord of the Rings, Denethor is a power-hungry ruler who ultimately consigns his people to death and destruction. This guy is supposedly an ally of the protagonists. So was Boromir, who was a member of the Nine Walkers.



Legolas is also supposed to be "good," but during the Council, he and Gimli didn't exactly see eye to eye. LoTR is a world where anyone could be the next Dark Lord, if only they'd take the power of the Ring, and no small number of people who are supposedly allies were corrupted without even touching the thing. That is why Sauron feared Aragorn - because if Aragorn wanted just to beat Sauron, he himself could take the power of the Ring and he would have a chance.



Note that Aragorn's spurning of the Ring was no sure thing, and he knows himself enough not to trust himself to actually take it to Mordor to get rid of it. Gandalf was deathly afraid of it. He could have turned evil, I think, if the Ring were forced on him.