328 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

No but generally a saga will have much, much more room for dark events and character deaths.

[ReubenLiew]

Wait witcher was dark?

[Bibdy]

The Angry One wrote...

Urgh, now you've done it. Watch somebody try to bring up The Witcher or Gothic as grand examples of dark fantasy when they're really just generic GRIMDARK affairs with attempts to shock-and-horror.

That's fine. They're all dark in their own right, but when your competition is flamboyant colourful crap like Final Fantasy its pretty easy to look at Dragon Age and go "Yep. Ain't no rape and slitting the throats of unconcious kids in Final Fantasy. That's pretty dark."

I think the term that should be used is REAL. This is actually believable. People in power getting away with whatever the hell they want, people not in power getting trodden on, but not going down to levels of absolute and total outright depravity and degradation of those not in power. Just people trying to get by in life and getting **** on.

Modifié par Bibdy, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:32 .

[Driveninhifi]

Well, I'd agree that it's not nearly as dark as the ads make it seem. I'm not sure "dark" was what they were going for outside of certain endings though (which actually makes the darker endings seem kind of out-of-place). It's not Terry Pratchett-esque light heartedness, but it's not really super dark. Which is good, as it probably wouldn't be that fun to play a blank slate PC where you have no chance of winning. It would feel too much like the writers are screwing you over.

I think the game's tone, for the most part, is fine. It's inconsistent in places where it kind of feels the writers were reaching for a memorable moment - but that's more a function of forcing the player to passively accept what's happening instead of the active role they've been playing.

[Roxlimn]

 Karl45:

Did you miss the part where you collect a giant army to use at your disposal in the final battle?

That's normal for war.  I was talking about the rooftop combat.

Yeah except for that time Loghain leaves you, the king, the grey wardens and a giant army to die in first few hours of the game.(there are also other betrayals)

Nope.  Saw that one coming from a mile off.  I'm sure Duncan had his suspicions as well.  Howe's betrayal was pretty predictable, too, given the nature of Ferelden politics.

Frodo was a little wiener, if it were really as dark as you were making it out to be, he would have been killed in the first chapter. 

He nearly was in the middle of the story.  At the time Aragorn was tracking down Merry and Pippin, the party of Nine was down to Three and many of your party are presumed dead.

Im not saying its that dark, but your not petting kittens and hugging rainbows either.

I'm not saying it's not dark, but in Hansel and Gretel, we're talking about child abandonment, cannibalism, exploitation, and murder BY children.  By that standard, Dragon Age is pretty much just par for the course.

[The Angry One]

Bibdy wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Urgh, now you've done it. Watch somebody try to bring up The Witcher or Gothic as grand examples of dark fantasy when they're really just generic GRIMDARK affairs with attempts to shock-and-horror.

That's fine. They're all dark in their own right, but when your competition is flamboyant colourful crap like Final Fantasy its pretty easy to look at Dragon Age and go "Yep. Ain't no rape and slitting the throats of unconcious kids in Final Fantasy. That's pretty dark."

You obviously missed the scene in Final Fantasy VII where Cloud gets ganged by a group of large men with mustaches in a hot tub!

[ReubenLiew]

The Angry One wrote...

No but generally a saga will have much, much more room for dark events and character deaths.

True if one were telling a story, but Dark Fantasy incorporates more towards the idea of the setting being dark and backward, an extreme medievalism, if you will. I like the way they handled the Broodmother, that was pretty dark and disgusting, and the second-classism of the elves is also a nice touch, but you don't really get abused that much on the fact you're an elf in this game.
I mean, where's the racism! They should be spitting on you, guards should be searching you for no reason, Grey Wardens should be chased by guards whereever they go!
Berzerk was dark as hell too and it was dark from the very first book!

[Rhys Cordelle]

You seem to be confusing your desire to play a ruthless, raping bastard of a character with the concept of Dark Fantasy. Dark Fantasy doesn't necessarily mean that your character is the one causing the darkness. That being said, there are plenty of opportunities to do some pretty heinous things in this game. It's darker than any rpg I've ever played (including BG2. Who said that was darker? Please.)



Lord of the rings is not dark fantasy. To be fair, you're comparing three large novels to one game. There's more scope within those novels for characters to die.

[Roxlimn]

Everyone here is talking about the class abuse of Elves and Casteless in this game as if it weren't a norm in Fantasy games and stories. This is normal folks. In fact, Dragon Age is less dark because it portrays rape as an abnormality, and class abuse as evil. In Final Fantasy, when you're a low class citizen, your life force gets harvested to power spells and engines.

[The Angry One]

Roxlimn wrote...

Everyone here is talking about the class abuse of Elves and Casteless in this game as if it weren't a norm in Fantasy games and stories. This is normal folks. In fact, Dragon Age is less dark because it portrays rape as an abnormality, and class abuse as evil.

If rape is so abnormal why is Vaughan so casual about it?
And did you even play through Orzammar, where class abuse is the absolute norm? How about the stories of the Chevaliers of Orlais who take what and whoever they choose without consequence?

In Final Fantasy, when you're a low class citizen, your life force gets harvested to power spells and engines.

In what Final Fantasy has that ever happened?

[Bhatair]

Roxlimn wrote...
 In Final Fantasy, when you're a low class citizen, your life force gets harvested to power spells and engines.

Sold into slavery/turned into a battery. Either way were talking about using people as objects, which is pretty dark.

[ReubenLiew]

Sooo... you want humans walking around the Alienages and going all white trash on them?

I don't think it's portrayed as abnormal either, unless you're playing a different game than I am. Nobles rape elves all the time, and elves apparently steal, kill and mug people all the time.



The only reason why it looks abnormal is because your pc reacts to it abnormally, although you could act like it's all normal too, which works. But because your pc is a crazy, ax-wielding psychopath, well, you're not really all that normal anyway!

[Herr Uhl]

Yes, I don't call DAO specifically dark, but I got peeved that the point you held up was the archdemon deal.



I want more bigotry, sexism and Arl Howes in general.

[Roxlimn]

Even with the scope of Lord of the Rings, by the end of the first book, your party is scattered to the winds, and you don't know if they're still alive and your leader is dead. That is a far more hopeless situation that anything that happens to your party in Dragon Age.



Moreover, in Lord of the Rings, a feudal system is also in effect. Indeed, it is heavily implied that the massive armies of Uruk-hai that Saruman produces were amassed through dark deeds. That's horrible atrocity on a grand scale, even if we don't consider that he essentially plans for Rohan to be eliminated through genocide.

[Tonya777]

You ask how many times your character is stabbed in the back in the game?



Zevran can turn on you and try to kill you with the antivan crows in an alley before the landsmeet



Morrigan can ditch you and run away and leave you to end the blight without her



Thats 2x backstabs in the game at least

[Tonya777]

Does this LOTR story you speak of exist in Xbox 360 video game form? It sounds fun

[ReubenLiew]

Actually every character except Dog and Alistair (well he won't attack but he'll leave, but I digress) can turn on your character.

[Tonya777]

Oh yeah thats true

If you desecrate the ashes of Andraste w/ Wynne and/or Lelianna in your party they will turn on you , but its not really an unmeritted backstab imo

Edit : How do you get Oghren Sten and Shale to turn on you?

Modifié par Tonya777, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:52 .

[The Angry One]

Roxlimn wrote...

Moreover, in Lord of the Rings, a feudal system is also in effect. Indeed, it is heavily implied that the massive armies of Uruk-hai that Saruman produces were amassed through dark deeds. That's horrible atrocity on a grand scale, even if we don't consider that he essentially plans for Rohan to be eliminated through genocide.

Are you aware of how darkspawn armies are produced?
If that isn't a dark deed to you, I don't want to know what is.

[Roxlimn]

Tonya777:



Both totally forseeable. Frankly, I was surprised Zevran didn't turn sooner, given how badly I was treating him. For that matter, Shale, Wynne, and Leliana can all turn on you, but every one of those is believable and predictable.



The Angry One:



In all cases in Orzammar, the treatment of the casteless is portrayed negatively. In Arthurian tales, raping women is considered normal. Which is the darker tone?



The elven situation is also portrayed as evil, with the rapist always being something of a villain. We don't, for instance, get Alistair randomly raping some elven wench and acting like it was perfectly normal. Even the chevaliers are portrayed as antagonists. It would be MUCH darker if Wynne were to, say, take all the Elfroots from the Alienage because the army needed it, and it's clearly normal to sacrifice the lives of elves for the comfort of soldiers...



In FF VII (I think), common soldiers were turned into experimental subjects by Shinra for the purpose of creating energy. Some of them were turned into batteries. This was not actually portrayed negatively.



ReubenLiew:



In all cases where rape of elves was occurring, it was a villain. We don't, for instance, get instances where Arl Eamon requests random elves to service your character, just as a courtesy.

[Herr Uhl]

Tonya777 wrote...

Edit : How do you get Oghren Sten and Shale to turn on you?

Sten, be an ass

Shale, kill Caradin

Oghren, be a bad wingman.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Roxlimn wrote...

Everyone here is talking about the class abuse of Elves and Casteless in this game as if it weren't a norm in Fantasy games and stories. This is normal folks. In fact, Dragon Age is less dark because it portrays rape as an abnormality, and class abuse as evil. In Final Fantasy, when you're a low class citizen, your life force gets harvested to power spells and engines.

"Dark fantasy is a subgenre that combines elements of fantasy, including marvelous abilities, with those of horror.[1]
Another definition of the genre is "a type of horror story in which
humanity is threatened by forces beyond human understanding."

I'd say both definitions fit Dragon Age quite well.

Did you buy this game hoping you'd be able to rape people without consequence? Do you think that should be part of dark fantasy games?

Dark Fantasy isn't about how people in the fantasy world percieve things, it's about how WE do. Even if rape of an elf were considered a perfectly respectable activity for humans to engage in, the point is how we as the audience react to that concept. It is dark because it horrifies us.

[Roxlimn]

The Angry One:



You are making a nonsensical point. I DIDN'T say these things weren't dark. I said they were par for the course for normal fantasy.

[Tonya777]

Cool I guess , I'm gonna kill Sten , Shale , & Oghrens useless annoying asses on a newer save then



I did kill Caridin on many of my saves , but didn't have Shale there with me when I did it so do I have to bring him to that fight to get him to turn on me? I would LOVE to kill Shale hes a f*****!

[ReubenLiew]

Sten if you don't have your approval high enough and take him to Andraste's ashes, he'll turn on your for wasting his time going here for some random reason or another.

Shale, side with branka as Herr Uhl said.

Oghren, on his personal quest you mess it up. BIG time.



Well you don't SEE it happening doesn't mean it doesn't. Vaughan was an ass, but apparently the rest of his guards, his father, the nobility doesn't see it as a fault and lets him get it on. In the human noble origin if you fail to get Iona to sleep with you and you turn to the other dude apparently he looks down on you for mingling with the lesser people.

And this guy was a nice guy too!