76 réponses à ce sujet

[Fapmaster5000]

Okay, this is going to ****** off quite a few people on all sides, but please bear with me: 

First: I love Mass Effect.  I joined this forum after completing ME3, because the endings bothered me so much that I had to commiserate with others who shared the burn.  It was nice, seeing that I wasn't alone in being "wtf - lame" about the endings, as they malfunctioned on so many levels, unless some serious head-canon was applied.  I felt, and still feel, that the endings were either a cool-but-evil sucker move (Indoc) or just sheer bad writing (no-Indoc).  That many of you agreed was empowering.  

I watched the ReTake fleets take shape, and launch, to fight for an ending to a game we all loved, fighting FOR a better ending, not AGAINST the creators.  The charity was brilliant, subverting negative rage into positive results, while also letting people take a stand beyond "+1 like".  The facebook, the twitter, the boards, it was awesome, watching so many people rise up at once, in the same reaction to the same work, and demand, in a meta-game, "This should be better".  It was cool to imagine this both from Indoc and non-Indoc, blending the narrative of the game with the realities of gaming.

And it worked.  Bioware heard us, they responded, and they made a promise to give better closure (how, we don't know).

Which means that this is the end of the line.

The die is cast.  There is nothing more to be gained from "Holding the Line".  Bioware will deliver what they know we want, or they won't.  The fans will, in turn, come back, or they won't.

This is all in the air now.  Nothing we can "hold" will improve this.  Constructive criticism (true constructive, such as "what would you change", "what worked, what didn't", and discussion of breaches in themes/characters) will still be useful, as well as the occasional, "we're still invested, we're still waiting".  But the ball is rolling.  Bioware will either delviver, or they will not.  No amount of anger or forum snarling will help now.

What will help now is cool, respectful, cordial relations.  

The ReTake charity drive is over, successfully raising tens of thousands of dollars for sick kids.  That's awesome.  There's no need to seethe over it's conclusion.  Idealistically, some poor kids got better lives from this.  Loss turned into SUCH greater gain.  Cynically, if you must, the goals of ReTake have been met better than anyone could have hoped on 3/7/12.  

So do not **** about the charity, do not **** about Penny Arcade, and, for the love of all I still hold holy, DO NOT **** ABOUT WASTING YOUR MONEY.  YOU GAVE MONEY TO CHARITY TO HELP SICK KIDS.  If you cynically gave money to "buy an ending", you are a disgrace to this board, a disgrace to this fandom, and a disgrace to humanity.  I think I'm quite clear here.  Get out of my species.

Second: Tempers have flared.  It has become so heated that Bioware employees cannot speak without being torn apart by armchair quarterbacks and PR generals.  Yes, they are spinning.  They are a massive company with a flagship product in a precarious position.  You can be damn sure that they are feeling the burn.  They will watch every word they say, couch everything in business-speak.  Their shareholders expect no less.  We should expect no less.

Yes, Bioware engaged in some amazingly infuriating doublespeak early on, culminating in the infamous "no change will be made" tweet.  This will probably be studied in the history of "Web PR Crisis".  We called them on it, they ponied up, and they made a committment (albeit layered in necessary wiggle-words) to address our complaints.

Calling "Bullsh*t" on anything from this point is counterproductive.  Bioware will deliver, or they will not.  They know, just as we do, what is at stake for them.  There is no need to crucify any messengers, or to cut apart every statement.  Take what they say, apply a grain of salt, be optimistic, and wait for results.  Words are empty, results are everything.  If we want this to turn out well, and I know I do, since I got this involved because of LOVE of a world, then we need to reopen the communications lines, let Bioware know, "Yes, we're burned, but we're willing ot work with you.  How can we help you help us?"  

They will deliver, or they will not.  That's all there is, and nothing to be gained through fury.

In conclusion: we, the loyal fans, have won as much as we could hope to win.  The ball is Bioware's court.  We should be respectful, supportive, and civil.  We will be cautious of their next offering, and they know this.  We have already won.  Any continued fight will only HURT our cause, make us look worse by association with people who whine for money back from charities and pick internet fights with random forum citizens and ground-level employees.  

Take this as a victory, do so with dignity, and keep your eyes on April.  
The line was held in crisis, it must now rest in peace.  They will deliver, or they will not, and there is nothing to be done until that point.

The ball is in Bioware's court, now, so let's be sure we do OUR part to make this one a winner.

[Warrior Craess]

Holding the line is still needed until we see actual results of the retake effort. Until there is an actual product addressing the concerns, it's still no more than double talk. Less vitriol could be used though.

[Fapmaster5000]

Warrior Craess wrote...

Holding the line is still needed until we see actual results of the retake effort. Until there is an actual product addressing the concerns, it's still no more than double talk. Less vitriol could be used though.

No, no, that's all well and fine to want a new ending, and to constructively discuss it.  What I see, what I fear, is the "Liners" getting more and more wrapped up into a mob mentality, where A. Nothing will satisfy them. and B. Nothing will calm them. 

If so, Bioware would be best off writing off the entire group as a loss.

I have to respond to customer surveys every day at work.  You can bet we listen a lot more to the guy who says, "Hey, this was messed up, I shop every week" than to the guy who yells, "OMG YOU SUCK, I'M NEVER COMING BACK".  You can't win that guy over, it's not worth the time.

Hence, the Liners need to calm down, settle in, and be helpful and constructive.  The stick has been delivered.  Now offer a carrot, "Hey, Bioware, you want feedback?  We have plenty!  You need a sounding board?  We'll be here.  Got a good ending?  We'll trumpet it from the rooftops for you."  

And if they don't deliver, let your wallet do the talking and walk away.

There is little to be gained from anger now, and nothing from hysterics.  We should all walk away now, victorious, with dignity, than stay and become what we despise.

Modifié par Fapmaster5000, 23 mars 2012 - 06:26 .

[Reptilian Rob]

Screw this mess, holding with all might.

[UrgentArchengel]

2 weeks man, just be patient. I am sure it will be taken care of a PAX. I hope anyway.

[Fapmaster5000]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Screw this mess, holding with all might.

But what does that mean?

That's my point.  What does "Hold the Line" mean at this point?  They said they'd fix it.

(Okay, they didn't really, but they knew what they were implying.  They will either deliver, and we all rejoice, or they don't, and we keep our money.  They've heard us, they've responded, and delivered far more response than I actually expected.)

There is nothing more to be gained by posting "Hold the Line".  They're working on a solution.  It will be enough, or it won't.  There is nothing to raise awareness of, and no battle to be won.

Any fighting is destructive at this point, or, at best, simply a waste of time better spent.

I, for one, plan on doing some writing, as the endings gave me a nice kick in the "never do this" creative pants.  Maybe I'll play another game.  I've got some projects at work.  If Bioware fixes this, they get my DLC money, and my pre-order trust back.  If they don't, I still have other studios to enjoy.  

Nothing will be improved by me posting "Hold the Line".  Much can be lost.

Take the victory and walk, people.

[KingKhan03]

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Screw this mess, holding with all might.

But what does that mean?

That's my point.  What does "Hold the Line" mean at this point?  They said they'd fix it.

(Okay, they didn't really, but they knew what they were implying.  They will either deliver, and we all rejoice, or they don't, and we keep our money.  They've heard us, they've responded, and delivered far more response than I actually expected.)

There is nothing more to be gained by posting "Hold the Line".  They're working on a solution.  It will be enough, or it won't.  There is nothing to raise awareness of, and no battle to be won.

Any fighting is destructive at this point, or, at best, simply a waste of time better spent.

I, for one, plan on doing some writing, as the endings gave me a nice kick in the "never do this" creative pants.  Maybe I'll play another game.  I've got some projects at work.  If Bioware fixes this, they get my DLC money, and my pre-order trust back.  If they don't, I still have other studios to enjoy.  

Nothing will be improved by me posting "Hold the Line".  Much can be lost.

Take the victory and walk, people.

Haha what if we all settle down like you say and the next DLC to be announced is the retake omega dlc.

[HITMAN629]

Ever here the pharse it aint over till its over, Bioware themselves didnt say they are changing it the media did. Untill the DLC is out, we haven't won

[Fapmaster5000]

KingKhan03 wrote...

Haha what if we all settle down like you say and the next DLC to be announced is the retake omega dlc.

And if it is, don't buy it.  That will deliver the punch far more effectively than posting "hold the line".  The line was held, they received the message.  They will deliver, or they will not.

If that April announcement comes out, and it's "Multiplayer DLC!  FTW!", I know I'm walking.  I don't need to threaten it.  They don't need to hear it, they've already heard it.

I'm not saying stop caring, I'm not saying give up.  I'm saying, take your victory where you can get it, walk away with head high, and see if the reward was worth the fight, because there's nothing to be gained by throwing punches now.

[thesnake777]

OP Until they say directly that they are going to Fix it..and how... people are not going to stop.

Edit: OP that multiplayer FTW comment was good

Modifié par thesnake777, 23 mars 2012 - 06:37 .

[Fapmaster5000]

HITMAN629 wrote...

Ever here the pharse it aint over till its over, Bioware themselves didnt say they are changing it the media did. Untill the DLC is out, we haven't won

WE aren't winning anything.  Bioware is the one playing the game.  They win our money, or they don't.  They delivered a product (or art), and the consumer/patrons were not impressed.  They are licking their wounds (or maybe hammering out an Indoc DLC) and realigning.  We don't need to fight anymore.

They will win us back, or they won't.  We aren't fighing them.  They're trying to win us back, and it will work or it won't.

[Chk-2000]

While I agree with you on most points OP, I don't think it is time yet to just leave BSN and watch from a distance. That might give the false impression, that we no longer cared. As long as it is kept civil, I see no harm in discussing the matter further.

Modifié par Chk-2000, 23 mars 2012 - 06:39 .

[Ghettohawk25]

While i respect your opinion that there in no more point of "Hold the line" , you have probably had time to follow this for a while and reflect on how much has happened.

If you just finished the game a day ago, you're probably still angry and need to vent. I do agree with you for the most part. At the same time though, I don't feel I have any right to tell any fan how to feel or what to do about it.

[MissMaster_2]

That's ish' still holding the line.

[Rekia]

I'm kind of glad at the overall community outrage. It was a relief to come to these forums and find a bunch of like minded individuals who were just as shocked an appalled as I was. I've never been very good at getting upset over something, I usually end up dropping it before I get any results. I've always been much too quick to get over things. I'm glad there are people who could hold the line where I could not.

I'd like to say that it needs to end, but I always think that, about everything. Maybe this time... maybe they do need to keep holding on.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Never give up, never surrender.

[Fapmaster5000]

thesnake777 wrote...

OP Until they say directly that they are going to Fix it..and how... people are not going to stop.

Edit: OP that multiplayer FTW comment was good

Right, but they said, "We're going to expand the content".  Vague, yes.  But, they know what we want (the broad strokes of it).  They WILL NOT tell us more until they have definate plans in motion (production and PR wise).  They would be stupid not to.  Which means, there will be a period of radio silence first.  

If we stay upset, this silence will stew, churn, and turn into poison, and could very well ruin the good that has been done.

This doesn't mean stop, it means bide your time and wait and see.  The ball is not in your court, so stop swinging.

[Mixon]

Hold the line.

[VAIOMANIAC]

I disagree we have gotten Biowares attention now and this is no time to back down, still holding the line.

[Mesmurae]

Hold the Line has become a popular saying, but what exactly does this line consist of?

I'm still confused as to the true goal of Retake Mass Effect.

[Gnaeus.Silvanus]

Never trust to hope OP that's my advise to you. Trust with your wallet, wait for the reviews before attempting to get this fix. If the reaction is bad then you just saved yourself from wasting precious dolla. This will be my mantra from now on with regard to games made by Bioware.

[Ultra Prism]

I didnt take charity as way to buy endings ... I wasn't even aware of Child's play at first place... so you should mind your thoughts before expressing like immature child

[RedMosquito51]

Still holding the line.

[Fapmaster5000]

Ghettohawk25 wrote...

While i respect your opinion that there in no more point of "Hold the line" , you have probably had time to follow this for a while and reflect on how much has happened.

If you just finished the game a day ago, you're probably still angry and need to vent. I do agree with you for the most part. At the same time though, I don't feel I have any right to tell any fan how to feel or what to do about it.

Now, that is true.  And I definately needed to get the BWAH?!! out of my system one day one.  Seeing that is valid, but the rising bile means that we should tone it down.  

Not, "Dont' feel that way", more, "It's not productive to release feelings in that way right now."

Maybe I'm just too analytical for my own good.  It's never really helped with these things you call "Human Emotions".  

[SoldierGryphon]

I actually agree with the OP. The retake movement won and they've agreed to make changes to the ending, but elements of the movement are turning destructive rather than constructive.