76 réponses à ce sujet

[HITMAN629]

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

HITMAN629 wrote...

Ever here the pharse it aint over till its over, Bioware themselves didnt say they are changing it the media did. Untill the DLC is out, we haven't won

WE aren't winning anything.  Bioware is the one playing the game.  They win our money, or they don't.  They delivered a product (or art), and the consumer/patrons were not impressed.  They are licking their wounds (or maybe hammering out an Indoc DLC) and realigning.  We don't need to fight anymore.

They will win us back, or they won't.  We aren't fighing them.  They're trying to win us back, and it will work or it won't.

The objective of the RetakeME3 movement is to show that we are not happy with the current endings & request better ones. Bioware now knows that we are not happy but they still havent fixed the probelm. If they release a ending dlc then the retake movement was a sucess aka we won. Think of it this way, if the media annouces that a war is over but people are still fighting, is it really over?
And no, we arent fighting Bioware, we are fighting for a better ending.

Modifié par HITMAN629, 23 mars 2012 - 06:48 .

[Mychosis]

Beautifully worded. I thoroughly agree with you. Though it is important to stand and be a reminder of what we want the time for fighting this genuinely needs to pass.

[KingKhan03]

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

Ghettohawk25 wrote...

While i respect your opinion that there in no more point of "Hold the line" , you have probably had time to follow this for a while and reflect on how much has happened.

If you just finished the game a day ago, you're probably still angry and need to vent. I do agree with you for the most part. At the same time though, I don't feel I have any right to tell any fan how to feel or what to do about it.

Now, that is true.  And I definately needed to get the BWAH?!! out of my system one day one.  Seeing that is valid, but the rising bile means that we should tone it down.  

Not, "Dont' feel that way", more, "It's not productive to release feelings in that way right now."

Maybe I'm just too analytical for my own good.  It's never really helped with these things you call "Human Emotions".  

I agree but this forum is fun haha the humour is pretty great nowadays the majority of the retake community are civil and its fun.

[Fapmaster5000]

Ultra Prism wrote...

I didnt take charity as way to buy endings ... I wasn't even aware of Child's play at first place... so you should mind your thoughts before expressing like immature child

<---- This post is what I'm worried about.

I most probably agree with this poster on the endings, and yet the reply to my post was bile: "mind your thoughts" and "immature child", being directed at OUR OWN COMMUNITY.  Imagine when the trolls dig in.  We will shoot ourselves in the foot if we don't check our output.  We will turn on ourselves and reduce an awesome thing into forum fights.

We stayed strong, we stayed together, now walk away clean while the memory is pure.

[Fapmaster5000]

SoldierGryphon wrote...

I actually agree with the OP. The retake movement won and they've agreed to make changes to the ending, but elements of the movement are turning destructive rather than constructive.

Thank you!

Mychosis wrote...

Beautifully worded. I thoroughly agree with you. Though it is important to stand and be a reminder of what we want the time for fighting this genuinely needs to pass.

 

And to you!


/sleep now.

Modifié par Fapmaster5000, 23 mars 2012 - 06:48 .

[KingKhan03]

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

SoldierGryphon wrote...

I actually agree with the OP. The retake movement won and they've agreed to make changes to the ending, but elements of the movement are turning destructive rather than constructive.

Thank you!

Come on guys the memes are hilarious tho!!

[Chuvvy]

SoldierGryphon wrote...

I actually agree with the OP. The retake movement won and they've agreed to make changes to the ending, but elements of the movement are turning destructive rather than constructive.

That's not what they agreed to. They agreed to "clarify" the endings, that doesn't even have to mean in game, it could be a motion comic, or a forum post. 

[Fapmaster5000]

KingKhan03 wrote...

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

SoldierGryphon wrote...

I actually agree with the OP. The retake movement won and they've agreed to make changes to the ending, but elements of the movement are turning destructive rather than constructive.

Thank you!

Come on guys the memes are hilarious tho!!

Oh, you bet they are.  I got some good laughs from them.  

/ARGH!  SLEEP!

[Qutayba]

But now, we can hold the line for a different, much better reason. We're not holding the line so they hear us. They heard us. Now, we're holding the line because we want them to know that we believe they will succeed. We're not just going to run after something else shiny.

The destructive elements seem to be dying down, if you ask me.

[Chk-2000]

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

Ultra Prism wrote...

I didnt take charity as way to buy endings ... I wasn't even aware of Child's play at first place... so you should mind your thoughts before expressing like immature child

<---- This post is what I'm worried about.

I most probably agree with this poster on the endings, and yet the reply to my post was bile: "mind your thoughts" and "immature child", being directed at OUR OWN COMMUNITY.  Imagine when the trolls dig in.  We will shoot ourselves in the foot if we don't check our output.  We will turn on ourselves and reduce an awesome thing into forum fights.

We stayed strong, we stayed together, now walk away clean while the memory is pure.

But would it be better for the civil party to retreat an leave ALL the field to the flamers?

[Ghettohawk25]

KingKhan03 wrote...

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

Ghettohawk25 wrote...

While i respect your opinion that there in no more point of "Hold the line" , you have probably had time to follow this for a while and reflect on how much has happened.

If you just finished the game a day ago, you're probably still angry and need to vent. I do agree with you for the most part. At the same time though, I don't feel I have any right to tell any fan how to feel or what to do about it.

Now, that is true.  And I definately needed to get the BWAH?!! out of my system one day one.  Seeing that is valid, but the rising bile means that we should tone it down.  

Not, "Dont' feel that way", more, "It's not productive to release feelings in that way right now."

Maybe I'm just too analytical for my own good.  It's never really helped with these things you call "Human Emotions".  

I agree but this forum is fun haha the humour is pretty great nowadays the majority of the retake community are civil and its fun.

The simple fact is: most people that purchased the game haven't finished it yet. If the backlash follows the same as the rest that have, I can't see things dying down anytime in the near future for Bioware.

[Melancholic]

OP, they haven't agreed to do anything but "clarify". For all we know they are of the popular mindset we are too dumb to understand the ending, and write a blog post that explains them.

Even if they do make an in-game solution, there's no guarantee it'll be any good or anything we actually wanted.

We're not done yet.

Modifié par Melancholic, 23 mars 2012 - 06:53 .

[Deaddude56]

This is exactly what this forum needs! We just need to provide constructive criticism for Bioware to craft an excellent and proper ending that will satisfy us. Spamming "Hold the Line" doesn't help anything at this point. We have succeeded in our initial campaign, so now we just need to finish the fight by providing constructive feedback. I trust in what Bioware is doing for us now, and I think they will do their best to make amends for us fans.

[sammysoso]

I think that the Retake movement still has use. It has become a place to vent frustration, to learn about new articles and videos pertaining to Mass Effect, to share theories and jokes. Never underestimate how much we value camaraderie. Hold the Line has become almost like a code word that belongs to member of a club or something.

I think it's a good place, and as long as we continue to remain a Paragon protest I think we'll be just fine.

The OP does make really good points about being patient, this isn't going to be a "quick fix"

[CDRSkyShepard]

Mesmurae wrote...

Hold the Line has become a popular saying, but what exactly does this line consist of?

I'm still confused as to the true goal of Retake Mass Effect.

Get the ending changed into something that makes sense and doesn't leave a bad taste in the mouth. Simple as that.

[SpiritReaver72]

I agree with OP. If they're not going to do anything at this point they never are. If they will we've won already. if they do, great. If they don't then next time just vote your wallet like any other consumer. We can only hurt ourselves at this point.

[EllOneillE]

HITMAN629 wrote...

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

HITMAN629 wrote...

Ever here the pharse it aint over till its over, Bioware themselves didnt say they are changing it the media did. Untill the DLC is out, we haven't won

WE aren't winning anything.  Bioware is the one playing the game.  They win our money, or they don't.  They delivered a product (or art), and the consumer/patrons were not impressed.  They are licking their wounds (or maybe hammering out an Indoc DLC) and realigning.  We don't need to fight anymore.

They will win us back, or they won't.  We aren't fighing them.  They're trying to win us back, and it will work or it won't.

The objective of the RetakeME3 movement is to show that we are not happy with the current endings & request better ones. Bioware now knows that we are not happy but they still havent fixed the probelm. If they release a ending dlc then the retake movement was a sucess aka we won. Think of it this way, if the media annouces that a war is over but people are still fighting, is it really over?
And no, we arent fighting Bioware, we are fighting for a better ending.

Indeed.

At this point very little has been said about this promised fix. If anything the movement needs to keep pressing on the idea that we have problems with the concept of the ending, that it is not a problem of not understanding it or finding it sad.

The easiest thing for Bioware to do would be to simply add scenes to the ending, but that would hardly be considered a fix by many of us. We should reiterate our desire for alternatives that are interactive and reflect player choices.
You know, something like the promised 16 endings.

[Captiosus77]

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

And it worked.  Bioware heard us, they responded, and they made a promise to give better closure (how, we don't know).

Which means that this is the end of the line.

Sigh.

What we got was (and let me emphasize it for clarity) the exact same PR presser we got before, only lengthier and with a "bigger" name attached. Read it again. And again. You'll see it literally says nothing that hasn't been said before by others. Namely: "We're listening" and "Provide constructive feedback". The only thing it dares to guarantee is a timeframe for another announcement. Not a change, not an acknowledgement, just another statement.

Don't be fooled by the fact that it came "from the top". That is done so PR doesn't spiral out of control; One statement, issued from someone very high up, that can be used, thereafter, as the go-to piece when the topic is brought up. Don't be fooled by the vagueness or the appeal to emotion rhetoric. In short: It's a net gain of nothing.

If we do not continue to make our voices heard (politely, I agree), and we do not continue to keep up the pressure, we don't "win", we lose - because it shows we can be easily placated by a vague statement if it comes from high enough up the corporate chain. If that happens, the entire initiative can easily be dismissed afterward with the typical marginalization rhetoric of "vocal minority", et cetera.

Consider this a union picket line. Are you going to turn scab the minute the corporate side releases a statement saying they're sad to hear about the complaints of the union workers, but the place has been voted a great place to work by some outside sources, yet they want to hear constructive criticism then come back with another statement later? Hell no you wouldn't! You'd keep picketing until the union and the corporation have some semblence of a deal worked out.

/soapbox

Modifié par Captiosus77, 23 mars 2012 - 07:07 .

[Janus382]

We don't know what it is they're planning to give us. We also have no indication of when such a thing is coming. So, "the line must be held" until we're certain they are giving us what we want, or we actually have it. It's not as simple as "either they will deliver, or they won't", as they may very well add in some previously cut dialogue and a two minute epilogue consisting of text walls... which would be very disappointing... but we don't know yet. If they do that, it doesn't mean it's over.

That said, the line must be held differently. I've noticed that as people tired of retreading the same conversation topics over and over, people latch on to BW-related news (or representative) or each other. It will probably (and hopefully) take a great deal of time for BW to produce whatever it is they're promising... so the way we've been, that is, hanging by every moment... just won't work.

So prop up some lawn chairs on that line. There's nothing to gain by shoving everyone's face into our agenda and being all ravenous about every tidbit of news and BW communication we get... but there is A LOT to lose. Pop in every day or two for a bit, make relevant comments on whatever threads you want, and plop some "Hold The Line" lingo at the end. Make it clear that we're not going away and that this is still important to us. Just relax a bit.

Holding the line, cool as a cucumber.

[TLK Spires]

tl;dr, still holding the line

[Vaktathi]

 We need to keep holding to ensure they actually understand what it is we are after. Dr.Muzyka's statement basically refered to "clarifications" and "answers" on the current ending, which quite frankly just isn't salvageable. They need to realize their efforts need to go into something other than trying to save that which cannot be saved unless they want to go with the "easymode" indoctrination thing. 

There's too much violation of the player-developer contract, too little accounting for what Shepard is and stands for in the universe and to the player, too little follow through on promises as the what the ending would be like, too little choice and variation in outcome, too little representation of war assets and the results of player choices, *FAR* too many plotholes, and above all...it just doesn't feel like a Mass Effect encounter. 


They need to scrap it or basically throw the bone and go with the "indoctrination" thing so we can all pretend it didn't happen without having to do a major overhaul and then give us a segment on Shepard overcoming the indoctrination and achieving victory from there. 



If they just continue to try and find ways to make the current ending suck less, that's not going to work, it's not going to make anyone happy, and it's going to leave a permanent mark black mark on the franchise and Bioware as a whole. 

Nobody want that. 

Modifié par Vaktathi, 23 mars 2012 - 07:12 .

[djarlaks10]

Threads like this make EA happy. We have not won yet guys. They can release DLC explaining not the endings, but some other stuff, like how Cerberus got indocrinated etc. Or even better, when devs look at the boards and see that everyone from the Retake ME3 movement had already left, they'll think that everyone forgot about the sucky endings and they are good. After that, the DLC can be postponed, and later cancelled.
So hold the line till you see the announcement saying that a new endings DLC will be released tomorrow.

[Xandurpein]

I think the OP makes a very good case. Bioware are committed to deliver some form of update to the ending and they ought to know that even if things calm down here on the forum it will be a new ragestorm here if their additional material doesn't address the legitimate concerns about the ending voiced here by many people. Concentrate your efforts on stating as constructively as possible what specifically you think needs changed, because I think we all know we probably only get one shot at getting this right, and by us I mean both Bioware and the fans.

[Cgrissom]

We don't have to stop holding the Line. We just need to calm things down a bit. There's a difference.

[jess05]

Holding.

You have to take a stance sometime. Not just for ME3, but gaming in general. If not, things start becoming the norm and gets out of control.

We need have our voices heard that we expect promises fullfilled.


If we do not, it only gets worse. look at Day 1 DLC.
It started out as free, Now theres a prcie attached to it.    Where does it go from here?



I do agree all the hate should settle down.  We can voice our concerns and even protest what we do not like, but that doesnt mean causing harm to others.

Modifié par jess05, 23 mars 2012 - 07:18 .