Keep stating what we would like in a calm manner. If we go silent now, they do not have to come through. We don't want to hate Bioware - most of us love their product and would like more of it. We just want what was promised and we want the epic storytelling of the ME series to continue straight to the end.
End of the Line
Débuté par
Fapmaster5000
, mars 23 2012 06:14
Retour en haut
#52
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 07:25
s.nebulous
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Well said OP.
I think the message that many many fans are upset with the ending has been heard.
Now that Bioware has promised to address it in some fashion, a change in tactics would not be unreasonable.
Most everyone came together under the banner that they are upset with the endings, however I think they will find that as a group we are not all actually looking for the same conclusion to the story.
Now is the time to give feedback on what you as an individual would like to see in the endings, but not fight with each other over it. No matter what happens, a lot of people I fear will be disappointed.
It is time to give your constructive feedback on what you would like to see. And remember, you might not get it.
Just to give a few examples of frequent ending concerns that people have varying opinions on.
The destruction of the mass relays.
The Stranding of the Normandy.
The Normandy leaving the battle.
The fate of your love interests.
No Happy ending.
We do not agree as movement on these points and we will not.
There are more, but I said enough.
If you, not the movement, want anything in particular changed, now is the time to leave the feedback.
Just my two cents.
I think the message that many many fans are upset with the ending has been heard.
Now that Bioware has promised to address it in some fashion, a change in tactics would not be unreasonable.
Most everyone came together under the banner that they are upset with the endings, however I think they will find that as a group we are not all actually looking for the same conclusion to the story.
Now is the time to give feedback on what you as an individual would like to see in the endings, but not fight with each other over it. No matter what happens, a lot of people I fear will be disappointed.
It is time to give your constructive feedback on what you would like to see. And remember, you might not get it.
Just to give a few examples of frequent ending concerns that people have varying opinions on.
The destruction of the mass relays.
The Stranding of the Normandy.
The Normandy leaving the battle.
The fate of your love interests.
No Happy ending.
We do not agree as movement on these points and we will not.
There are more, but I said enough.
If you, not the movement, want anything in particular changed, now is the time to leave the feedback.
Just my two cents.
Modifié par s.nebulous, 23 mars 2012 - 07:27 .
#53
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 07:29
evisneffo
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Good thoughts, and response to those stupid people who demanded their money back from the charity. I agree with this though:
There hasn't been a cue for the movement to bugger off just yet. It should simmer but not boil.
Cgrissom wrote...
We don't have to stop holding the Line. We just need to calm things down a bit. There's a difference.
There hasn't been a cue for the movement to bugger off just yet. It should simmer but not boil.
#54
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 07:30
Jadebaby
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We won a few battles, but not the war. I will hold the line constructively and humorously until the war is won.
It's like that saying: don't kick someone when they're down.
It's like that saying: don't kick someone when they're down.
#55
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 07:42
DarthSyphilis59
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Holding the line means that we stick to our guns. Bioware has a simple choice: either ignore their fans, and lose future business regarding upcoming DLC, and other titles; or they can listen to their fans and try to fix their product to satisfy their consumers, and restore faith in their brand. Ultimately, its their choice. But choices have consequences, and I as a consumer will do my best to hold them accountable for promises they made concerning this product. As for me, I will continue to POLITELY hold the line.
#56
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 07:42
Madecologist
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Actually I am cynical cruel man. I never thought the charity was needed. The flaws in the ending of ME3 and the overall attitude people have about its merit (both by the staff and those that like it) is indicative of the sorry state of writing in the videogame industry. I do believe in the intent of the team wanting to make a great game, but even I have done really bad or stupid things with the nobliest intentions.
The movement did not need to champion a cause to validate itself. The product itself and false hype was evidence enough of its validity.
Also, even if Bioware has opened the table, they (I do not consider myself part of the movement... my opinions are far... more severe in consequences) still have a lot of work to do. They still need to convey what they are dissatisfied about and keep reminding people of why. Since no one wants any more mistakes.
Never mind that there are still new commers that show up fustrated about the endings, people who only just now finished the game. So the movement still acts as a group to allow these people to find support and others that share common ground.
The movement did not need to champion a cause to validate itself. The product itself and false hype was evidence enough of its validity.
Also, even if Bioware has opened the table, they (I do not consider myself part of the movement... my opinions are far... more severe in consequences) still have a lot of work to do. They still need to convey what they are dissatisfied about and keep reminding people of why. Since no one wants any more mistakes.
Never mind that there are still new commers that show up fustrated about the endings, people who only just now finished the game. So the movement still acts as a group to allow these people to find support and others that share common ground.
#57
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 07:55
HurricaneGinger
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I will still hold the line in a respective, hopeful manner. 
#58
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 07:56
Billabong2011
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omg i read the title and thought it was Stanley hahahah sorry stanley, we love you!! 
#59
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 08:02
s.nebulous
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Madecologist wrote...
Never mind that there are still new commers that show up fustrated about the endings, people who only just now finished the game. So the movement still acts as a group to allow these people to find support and others that share common ground.
Good point.
#60
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 08:29
lucidfox
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No, they haven't. We got a vague PR post that can be twisted in any way they want.SoldierGryphon wrote...
I actually agree with the OP. The retake movement won and they've agreed to make changes to the ending, but elements of the movement are turning destructive rather than constructive.
#61
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 09:15
Omega Torsk
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Uhh, no... I'm gonna have to pass on that.
I will continue to hold the line in a mature and respectful way, of course. But I'm not gonna sit and watch from a distance. I did that before March 6th and... well...
Simply put, we can't give them the impression that we're just gonna wake up one day and accept it. The current ending doesn't allow that.
So, hold the line! Hold fast to hope and let our voices be heard (respectfully)!
I will continue to hold the line in a mature and respectful way, of course. But I'm not gonna sit and watch from a distance. I did that before March 6th and... well...
Simply put, we can't give them the impression that we're just gonna wake up one day and accept it. The current ending doesn't allow that.
So, hold the line! Hold fast to hope and let our voices be heard (respectfully)!
Modifié par Omega Torsk, 23 mars 2012 - 09:17 .
#62
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 09:24
tjmax
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"Holding the line"
what does it mean to everyone...
to me it means:
Respectfully voicing our opinions, and having them heard. >done
We started the drive for innocent purposes, somehow it became twisted and used to champion our cause, it needed to end for the sake of the cause since people where manipulating the reasons to their own end. >done
We have accomplished a good thing and i think its time to hold the line silently and allow them the time they need. The forums are ablaze with people intent on causing harm to anyone and everyone posting ignorant accusations against Bioware, EA and the fans.
Its time to step back and let the waters calm.
what does it mean to everyone...
to me it means:
Respectfully voicing our opinions, and having them heard. >done
We started the drive for innocent purposes, somehow it became twisted and used to champion our cause, it needed to end for the sake of the cause since people where manipulating the reasons to their own end. >done
We have accomplished a good thing and i think its time to hold the line silently and allow them the time they need. The forums are ablaze with people intent on causing harm to anyone and everyone posting ignorant accusations against Bioware, EA and the fans.
Its time to step back and let the waters calm.
#63
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 09:34
Paparob
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I got a text from a friend today. It read "God damn it." I knew immediately he was referring the Mass Effect 3 endings. I'm not going to stop sending mail to Bioware to express my displeasure nor will I stop voicing it when the topic is brought up. The only way I'm going to do that is if they tell us "No", and in which case I'm going to be incredibly uneasy about buying their products again or "Yes and here is what we're going to do specifically", in which case I'll hang around and wait politely after they make that public statement.
#65
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 09:37
Spherexius
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You're playing straight into the PR-tactics they use. Their only real way for them to diffuse this, without caving in to the demands or accepting the loss of a large part of their most dedicated fans, is to slowly separate us through doubt, vague remarks and the resulting infighting.
Keep it civil, constructive and calm, but hold the line until the end. Accept nothing else, or they've already won.
Keep it civil, constructive and calm, but hold the line until the end. Accept nothing else, or they've already won.
Modifié par Spherexius, 23 mars 2012 - 09:40 .
#66
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 09:44
emperoralku
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I respectfully disagree with the OP. The statement bioware released was a page of filler, committing to nothing. We already knew they were doing dlc and providing clarity does not fix the mess they made of the ending.
The way the statement was worded means they can still do nothing if we back down and this blows over as they hope it will.
The way the statement was worded means they can still do nothing if we back down and this blows over as they hope it will.
#67
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 09:52
s.nebulous
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I think the line won this thread, I surrender my post.
#68
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 09:56
FoxShadowblade
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They have stated they will 'look into it', nothing official has been announved beyond that. And until it is, we will hold the line.
This is a victory, one battle won. The war is not over.
This is a victory, one battle won. The war is not over.
#69
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 10:00
Spectre-00N7
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SoldierGryphon wrote...
I actually agree with the OP. The retake movement won and they've agreed to make changes to the ending, but elements of the movement are turning destructive rather than constructive.
Shouldn't the movement stay around making sure everyone stays civil? To me "Hold the Line" now means that we should be patient and wait till further news is released while staying polite and helping out the community.
#70
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 10:01
Axolotl Shepard
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We want RESULTS before we back down. We've seen comments before, but we want stuff to ACTUALLY be done.
#71
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 10:04
MadRabbit999
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Unfortunately this will never be over... even if BW fixes the endings by adding extra content that explains them, this boards will still be littered with complaints because that is what people do.
I am not siding with BW, but this "line" stuff is a war lost at the start because nobody will be completely satisfied no matter how many DLC they release, that is why I have learned to accept it and make peace with it after I watched the endings.
I am not siding with BW, but this "line" stuff is a war lost at the start because nobody will be completely satisfied no matter how many DLC they release, that is why I have learned to accept it and make peace with it after I watched the endings.
#72
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 10:05
Pelle6666
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Bioware will probably not have a dlc ready any time soon so I think that we shouldn't stop sharing our thoughts and opinions with them. After all, they said they are taking our feedback into consideration in the development of further content.
#73
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 10:08
Aerevane
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An ambigious statement that isn't clear in purpose nor eventual result is to be taken with some grain of salt. Especially if you consider the BioWare promises pre-release, I'd say I wouldn't take everything on first value anyway...Fapmaster5000 wrote...
But what does that mean?Reptilian Rob wrote...
Screw this mess, holding with all might.
That's my point. What does "Hold the Line" mean at this point? They said they'd fix it.
(Okay, they didn't really, but they knew what they were implying. They will either deliver, and we all rejoice, or they don't, and we keep our money. They've heard us, they've responded, and delivered far more response than I actually expected.)
#74
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 10:19
Mavaras
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I definitely understand what the OP is getting at, but I think the degree of what we have accomplished is highly subjective ATM. Our goal was to get a better ending right? We don't have that yet. Until deliverance, I think we need to maintain our dialogue and keep working the angles. The only reason we have a chance at anything is because we have strength in numbers and Bioware cares about its fans.
/Soapbox
People of BSN, of Mass Effect, my comrades... I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the gusto of this movement fails, when we forsake the ending and break all bonds of gamership, but it is not this day. An hour of QQs and shattered dreams when the Age of Bioware comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear in this good franchise, I bid you hold the line, men and women of RME!
/Soapbox
People of BSN, of Mass Effect, my comrades... I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the gusto of this movement fails, when we forsake the ending and break all bonds of gamership, but it is not this day. An hour of QQs and shattered dreams when the Age of Bioware comes crashing down, but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear in this good franchise, I bid you hold the line, men and women of RME!
Modifié par Mavaras, 23 mars 2012 - 10:20 .
#75
Posté 23 mars 2012 - 10:40
navi88hh
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We have gained nothing so far. Just digital words. Nobody outside EA/Bioware knows exactly what will happen. And therefore, I will hold the line until I'm back enjoying the best franchise ever made in RPG history.
This is not about being part of a movement for me, this is because I love Mass Effect, it's characters (especially Shep and Liara) and I want it to continue the way it has been going all these years.
The ending of ME3 just doesn't fit in all of this, unless it's part of the indoc theory. Which I still hope and think is a viable and reasonable outcome of the stories.
Worst case scenario for me is paid DLC leaving the ending untouched containing just a bunch of side quests (without extra main cast voice acting) and multiplayer stuff. I can't be bothered less about that.
And for me it also feels wrong to tell bioware what I expect from them to do next, what I want from them to do. It's like requesting a birthday present for your own birthday. Ofcourse, getting something you want feels good. But that would be like watching a movie for the second time knowing all exactly what will happen. It's not nearly as good as watching it for the first time. Oh God, I remember my first playthrough with Mass Effect 1. 2 days of non-stop amazement. At that moment my life was Mass Effect, and I was commander Shepard. There was nothing else besides that.
The power of the ME series has always been the element of surprise and astoundment, not knowing what to expect and if think you do, getting overwhelmed with something way beyond that expectation.
I think Mass Effect's most dedicated fans such as myself are in this heartbreaking state because we all knew ME3 would be the end of the series, and therefore our expactations have been sky high. And then after the ending, it was for the first time we didn't get something beyond our expectation, but for the first time, the contrary. And it happened on the worst possible moment, the end. It's like beaking up with a loved one after such a long time while thinking everything was going so well. It's bitter hard.
I still can't understand how the most dedicated fans could come up with an ending like this. Because I think and hope Bioware must have put so much love and effort in the ME series that they must have become one of their own biggest fans. And that's why I fear, and really do not hope, that it's all about the money and they planned a bad ending all along so their post DLC's will pick up more interest. I know this may sound naive in some folks ears, but I still like to see Bioware as a paragon here, and haven't given up hope on them. How could we, after such an amazing series. (On the other hand, I know the outcome of the DA series. But that on a side note).
I still hold the line. Why? Because I haven't given up on Mass Effect, nor Bioware. Wheter they have tricked us into indoctration theory, or doing their outmost best to continue doing what they do best; writing amazing SCI-FI to undo this bad after taste of an non-sensical ending.
This is not about being part of a movement for me, this is because I love Mass Effect, it's characters (especially Shep and Liara) and I want it to continue the way it has been going all these years.
The ending of ME3 just doesn't fit in all of this, unless it's part of the indoc theory. Which I still hope and think is a viable and reasonable outcome of the stories.
Worst case scenario for me is paid DLC leaving the ending untouched containing just a bunch of side quests (without extra main cast voice acting) and multiplayer stuff. I can't be bothered less about that.
And for me it also feels wrong to tell bioware what I expect from them to do next, what I want from them to do. It's like requesting a birthday present for your own birthday. Ofcourse, getting something you want feels good. But that would be like watching a movie for the second time knowing all exactly what will happen. It's not nearly as good as watching it for the first time. Oh God, I remember my first playthrough with Mass Effect 1. 2 days of non-stop amazement. At that moment my life was Mass Effect, and I was commander Shepard. There was nothing else besides that.
The power of the ME series has always been the element of surprise and astoundment, not knowing what to expect and if think you do, getting overwhelmed with something way beyond that expectation.
I think Mass Effect's most dedicated fans such as myself are in this heartbreaking state because we all knew ME3 would be the end of the series, and therefore our expactations have been sky high. And then after the ending, it was for the first time we didn't get something beyond our expectation, but for the first time, the contrary. And it happened on the worst possible moment, the end. It's like beaking up with a loved one after such a long time while thinking everything was going so well. It's bitter hard.
I still can't understand how the most dedicated fans could come up with an ending like this. Because I think and hope Bioware must have put so much love and effort in the ME series that they must have become one of their own biggest fans. And that's why I fear, and really do not hope, that it's all about the money and they planned a bad ending all along so their post DLC's will pick up more interest. I know this may sound naive in some folks ears, but I still like to see Bioware as a paragon here, and haven't given up hope on them. How could we, after such an amazing series. (On the other hand, I know the outcome of the DA series. But that on a side note).
I still hold the line. Why? Because I haven't given up on Mass Effect, nor Bioware. Wheter they have tricked us into indoctration theory, or doing their outmost best to continue doing what they do best; writing amazing SCI-FI to undo this bad after taste of an non-sensical ending.
