429 réponses à ce sujet

[Wildhide]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Wildhide wrote...

The decisions are reflected, but by the way the game ends are made pointless.  Thus they don't actually matter or have any impact.  Who cares if you cured the Genophage?  The Krogan will overpopulate their homeworld that's barely alive and die off.  The rest are going to die stuck at Earth, or just start killing people.

*facepalm*

If you don't believe the krogan are capable of controlling their urges to overpopulate or coexist peacefully, why'd you cure the genophage?  This is the whole point of the genophage argument.  Seriously, were you paying no attention to what everyone was agonising about?

Wildhide wrote...
It was nice of you to give the Quarians Rannoch and have them make peace with the Geth.  Too bad most of them can't get to Rannoch and will starve over Earth.  

Except they have liveships, with FTL drives.  Cloning meat is something we're experimenting with today.  Yes, they'll need to ration, yes, they'll need to innovate, but assuming they will all die is incredibly lazy thinking.

Wildhide wrote...
Of course we're assuming the relays didn't just blow up both solar systems like game lore suggests.

The game lore suggests no such thing, since the method of destruction in Arrival (smash a planet-sized asteroid into it) is different from the method of destruction in ME3 (energy pulse sent from the central control unit).

I don't believe their wasteland planet can support any sort of population boom, even a minor one.  I don't think it can support the population it has now on its own.

Liveships which have been ravaged or destroyed.  And FTL requires fuel.  A lot more than a gas guzzling fleet can likely bring with it.  The Quarian fleet is notorious for requiring unreasonable amounts of resources it cannot support on it's own.  And even if they manage to somehow handle that then you've still returned their world to take it away from most of them for another few decades.

Play Arrival.

And I'm still firmly one of the people that's more concerned about the characters Bioware made me be concerned about than obscure references to the state of the galaxy.  I want to know what happened to my crew and old crew.  And not the the whole them abandoning Shepard midfight to randomly fly througha  relay and land on Jurrasic Park tripe that's in the game.

Poor, poor writing.

[dfstone]

There is no galactic dark age. According to The Arrival DLC in ME2, destroying a relay releases an explosion as powerful as a supernova which would destroy the whole star system the relay is in. That means the entire known galaxy has gone extinct at the end of ME3.

Modifié par dfstone, 23 mars 2012 - 05:14 .

[The Angry One]

CaptainZaysh wrote...
You are right.  The dextros need to do something very smart about either using the liveships as the basis for a bioscience solution to the food problem, or they need to do something very smart with their FTL drives to get them to a dextro world.

Smartness isn't going to get you more fuel.
Smartness isn't going to have the liveships magically produce enough food for both the flotilla and the Turians.

The extent of the damage to Earth is unclear (although it's not exactly the surface of the moon - central London is less devastated than it would have been via nuclear war, for instance).  However there will certainly be a vast challenge ahead in rebuilding it.

Hey guess what the Citadel dropping on Earth is going to cause?
That's right, nuclear winter!

Modifié par The Angry One, 23 mars 2012 - 05:15 .

[111987]

I think the people who say they would rather fight conventionally and lose aren't really thinking things through. I keep hearing "well we'll plan a lot of information and tech around the galaxy so that they can better prepare"...but don't you think the Reapers will realize this? I mean, it's not like we're the only group of species who ever would have thought of leaving behind information for the next cycle. The Reapers will be resetting their traps, and fixing whatever went wrong this time. The Keepers will be re-programmed, or they'll just adjust it so that they don't need to interface with the Keepers to activate the Citadel Relay. They can change their IFF signals so that they can lock down the Relays during the next cycle. In all likelihood, they'll build another Alpha Relay.

So while it would be tempting to just stick it to the Catalyst and duke it out with the Reapers, in the long term you are dooming a lot of other races, as well as your own. Many of the homeworlds are ravaged, and many of the smaller colony worlds will either die or have to relocate. But it's not like every single person in the galaxy is going to die.

Plus if you chose Control, you have the Reapers around that will help the reconstruction process a LOT. Maybe even in Synthesis...they're still around right?

[majormajormmajor]

The Angry One wrote...

Smartness isn't going to get you more fuel.
Smartness isn't going to have the liveships magically produce enough food for both the flotilla and the Turians.

All the smartness in the galaxy isn't going to be of any help without time. You can't replace a crtiically important system that's been built up over thousands of years overnight.

The civilisations of the galaxy don't have enough of it before they collapse utterly.

Modifié par majormajormmajor, 23 mars 2012 - 05:20 .

[Marixus99.9]

The Angry One wrote...

Hey guess what the Citadel dropping on Earth is going to cause?
That's right, nuclear winter!

Mass Effect 4: Planet of the Krogan.

Modifié par Marixus99.9, 23 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[durasteel]

Cheesy Blue wrote...

Their isn't really any other option. As of right now, it's either use the Crucible or die. A galactic dark age sucks but it's the hand we have been dealt.

There isn't any other option in the game, but there is certainly another option from a logical narrative perspective. You have the data from Lawson's lab that decrypts the Reaper's indoctrination signal and methodology. This opens up a possibility that has nothing to do with the crucible.

A device could be made that blocks the reaper indoctrination signal for Shepard's crew, who are therefore able to land on Harbinger's metal hide and gain access to his superstructure. They fight their way to his core, and spike it to use Harbinger's indoctrination and command & control signal to send feedback to the entire Reaper armada like what Sovereign got when Saren was finally destroyed. The result is similar - the Reaper's kinetic barriers drop and the fleet can blow them to hell. Most of the Reapers are in the Sol system with the Citadel, but there will be a few left to threaten the galaxy.  That's ok, because they will see what happened to Harbinger and the others and go into hiding. The Galaxy, united by Shepard, has plenty of opportunity to explore options for finding and destroying the left-over Reapers, and future games can allow us to participate in that process.

[Myrmedus]

My issue with it is that the game's narrative paints the destroy option as being bad, so I don't even feel like it's a victory at great cost...it doesn't feel like a victory at all.

[raider_1001]

[Edit out to start a new thread...]

Modifié par raider_1001, 23 mars 2012 - 06:04 .

[Chrishenanigans]

From a gameplay perspective, going from a vast galactic community to the Dark Ages just isn't fun. And if it isn't fun, it's too high a price for both the players and BioWare.

[CaptainZaysh]

The Angry One wrote...

Every civilised world in the galaxy is devastated. Worlds that had come to rely on trade and supplies from colonies even in their prime.
They need aid from the entire galaxy to get back on their feet and now they have NOTHING.
They WILL starve and they WILL die.

That's muddled thinking.  Nobody needs "aid" to survive.  Aid is just a delivery mechanism.

To survive people need what?  An atmosphere, food, and security.  I think you're playing Chicken Little if you assume that nobody left alive will be able to secure these things without the benevolent wisdom of Galactic Society to help them.

[Marixus99.9]

Myrmedus wrote...

My issue with it is that the game's narrative paints the destroy option as being bad, so I don't even feel like it's a victory at great cost...it doesn't feel like a victory at all.

Maybe a good spoiler for any new players into the series .. "Reapers win in the end"

[CaptainZaysh]

majormajormmajor wrote...

That's the thing, innit? They wanted LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE- problem is, given how apocalyptic society tends to be these days, that speculation is veering off into profoundly negative directions.

This general pervading outlook, and  deduction from what we know of the ME universe, naturally leads to the assumption of catastrophe from most; whereas it will take an avowed optimist considerable leaps of logic for the ending to seem hopeful.

LOL.  Anybody who thinks Western society is apocalyptic has obviously not travelled widely enough.

Maybe the whole happy ending debacle is more a comment on an out-of-touch western audience than anything else.

[majormajormmajor]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

To survive people need what?  An atmosphere

Palaven's has been thrashed so thoroughly by exploding cities you need breathing apparatus on the surface.

CaptainZaysh wrote...
food

Many of the major worlds before the war have populations beyond what they can support, and depend on imports

CaptainZaysh wrote...
security. 

No more mass relays means the collapse of central government and the rise of warlordism. Jesus Christ I think you're making your case worse with every sentence.

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I think you're playing Chicken Little if you assume that nobody left alive will be able to secure these things without the benevolent wisdom of Galactic Society to help them.

Sure there'll be people who will survive- fairly certain some Inuit in Nunavut and Stone Age tribesmen in New Guinea would still be kicking if modern civilisation collapsed tomorrow

[CaptainZaysh]

dfstone wrote...

There is no galactic dark age. According to The Arrival DLC in ME2, destroying a relay releases an explosion as powerful as a supernova which would destroy the whole star system the relay is in. That means the entire known galaxy has gone extinct at the end of ME3.

Wrong.  Destroying a relay by ramming it at relatavistic speed with a huge asteroid creates the results you describe.  You may notice that didn't happen at the end of ME3.

[MB957]

a galactic dark age...till the next cycle. how do we know these are all the reapers?? there could be more!! and maybe it takes more than 50k years...but more reapers will come.

how do we know we are eliminating the reapers? cuz a reaper tells us its so? my shep wouldnt fall for that! thats crazy talk!!

nothing that star child says makes sense. all the options lead to some kind of crazy end...

and galactic dark age? there wont be a galaxy left ...after shep vaporizes it..ala arrival dlc...

[LegatoSkyheart]

 I think it was wrong.
It completely defeats Shepard's whole purpose of saving the galaxy.

[Bomma72]

You are right this was what Bioware was putting across in the game.

And in my opinion all the time playing the 3 games games was really not worth it because of that. It is a game you can't win, and I feel kind of like I wasted my time playing it.

I play games to win, not to speculate about them. Speculation is the icing on top if it done right.

Mass Effect Fails spectacularly at it's purpose. We did not buy a movie, or read a book, ultimately this is a game. A game that can't be won.

[majormajormmajor]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

LOL.  Anybody who thinks Western society is apocalyptic has obviously not travelled widely enough.

Anyone who doesn't hasn't cracked open a newspaper or turned on the TV in living memory.

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Maybe the whole happy ending debacle is more a comment on an out-of-touch western audience than anything else.

LOL Out of touch audience? The audience is never the one out of touch, you cretin. We call this "changing tastes"- and its the artist upon whom all the blame and losses fall if they fail to adapt to it or gauge it correctly.

Modifié par majormajormmajor, 23 mars 2012 - 05:33 .

[dfstone]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

dfstone wrote...

There is no galactic dark age. According to The Arrival DLC in ME2, destroying a relay releases an explosion as powerful as a supernova which would destroy the whole star system the relay is in. That means the entire known galaxy has gone extinct at the end of ME3.

Wrong.  Destroying a relay by ramming it at relatavistic speed with a huge asteroid creates the results you describe.  You may notice that didn't happen at the end of ME3.

No thats not true.  I just replayed that mission in ME2 last night, the Doctor says that destroying a relay releases the same amount of power as a Supernova.  That is exactly what she said.

[CaptainZaysh]

majormajormmajor wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

To survive people need what?  An atmosphere

Palaven's has been thrashed so thoroughly by exploding cities you need breathing apparatus on the surface.

Okay, so this is a great example of what I'm talking about.  Here is the relevant bit of the codex:

The dust and smoke from pulverised cities is now a breathing hazard across much of the planet.

Explain to me how you got from that to "Palaven has no atmosphere".

[majormajormmajor]

CaptainZaysh wrote...
Explain to me how you got from that to "Palaven has no atmosphere".

I didn't. It's your own bloody assumption that I did.

Now try telling me that an atmosphere which is now a breathing hazard is a good long term prospect for healthy living.

Modifié par majormajormmajor, 23 mars 2012 - 05:37 .

[CaptainZaysh]

dfstone wrote...

No thats not true.  I just replayed that mission in ME2 last night, the Doctor says that destroying a relay releases the same amount of power as a Supernova.  That is exactly what she said.

She's hypothesising, based on her intention to ram it with a big rock.  Serious question: can you not understand that smashing a small planet into something might make it blow up in a different way from disabling it with an energy pulse sent from the network's central control unit?  Or are explosions just explosions to you?

[Almostfaceman]

All technology is built around the mass relays. Ships are not designed for long range FTL travel. They do not carry enough fuel. They do not hold enough food. Even the quarians are dependent on the mass relays and travel from place to place using them to re-supply. The fleet gathered to fight the reapers was not prepared for this contingency. The fleet fighting the reapers is to say the least - beat up. There is no emergency infrastructure for ships to make long voyages with their FTL. The only race that even has some sort of chance to make it is the Geth. Even they would have to figure out a way home, have to redesign ships, figure out a course back, and it would take about 30 years if they made no stops to get back to their home system. Probably even longer since they can't travel through the galactic core and would have to go around it.

A whole economy and way of living is gone. Races that built dependencies on each other are going to be in a really bad way. Chaos is going to set in as worlds on fire from the Reapers realize they're cut off from aid and outside supplies.

It would be the same thing as switching off the technology on our planet. People who are now dependent on electricity and cars would go bananas and start killing each other.

All you positive thinkers out there, you can't escape the fact that the authors intended for this to be an issuing into a Dark Age, and the old man and kid are 10,000 years into the future with still no space travel. When the kid asks about the stars, grandpa doesn't say "Hey, we'll go see them right now! Let's jump on a shuttle!"

I did not play Mass Effect for grandpa and the kid. Sorry. I played it for Shep and his squad. It's that simple. I did it to fix the Quarian/Geth problem and the Genophage. I could care less about grandpa and his kid. I really could.

[Duckin50s]

SwobyJ wrote...

It's reasonable, but not at ALL how they show it. There is no actual conclusion, no resolution. It's missing at least 5-10 hours' worth in fact.

too true