429 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

I like how folks just immediately jump to the conclusion that galactic civilization is doomed based on speculation and conjecture, then denounce anyone who thinks otherwise.

[mikelope]

Scyldemort wrote...

mikelope wrote...

It's a new beginning. It ends the war and destroys the reapers never to come back again. And it's supposed to be a difficult compromise. Real historical figures faced more difficult decisions than this, the atomic bomb on Japan for one.

Except the atomic bomb didn't actually have anything to do with ending World War 2. That was just the product of the self-justification of the people who deployed it. Do you seriously think the atomic bomb meant a damn next to the sheer unbridled destruction we were already unleashing on the Japanese populace with our fire-bombing raids? The war was won by logistics. Materiel. We out-produced our enemies, and we'd have done so against Japan with or without the atom bomb.

But that's neither here nor there.

I'm against the deployment of atomic bomb myself, but I think the answer to that is not black and white either. That's all I'm saying. I shouldn't have used a sensitive political example for comparison.

[AllergevKev]

Because neither Mass Effect 1 nor 2 had happy endings right?

I mean, Mass Effect 2 did it perfectly. We're not asking for all roses and sunshine (well some are, but they're not thinking straight) There was still a lot of sadness coming out of the final run in Mass Effect 2, due to some of your squadmates being lost, but the overall feeling was that of victory.

Not only did none of our war assets (sort of the Mass Effect 2 equivalent of loyalty) matter in a meaningful way, but the ending didn't have any real happiness, aside from knowing your squad lived, but that was handled terribly.

[TheTrueObelus]

If they actually explained it as a galactic dark age where the various races survived and eventually found each other again decades or centuries later there would be some closure.

But they didn't explain anything.

[AllergevKev]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I like how folks just immediately jump to the conclusion that galactic civilization is doomed based on speculation and conjecture, then denounce anyone who thinks otherwise.

The game is called MASS EFFECT for a reason, the entire game universe is based on that technology. While galactic civilization may not be doomed, per say, it certainly will no longer be the universe I've spent the last 5 years learning to love.

[VvAndromedavV]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Le sigh.  Another sun worshipper.  At least you spelled canon correctly, I suppose.

Wow, man, get over yourself.

[Beanicus]

I still don't see why they didn't foreshadow this! I could have got my head round the idea if it'd been brought up earlier in the plot and there was some suitably serious/sad discussion. Instead, we get a comment from space child and then a boom (with your favourite colour!). The idea is one as a fan of the universe I dislike, but the complete lack of foreshadowing just meant it really failed to make me feel it was a reasonable addition to the game.

[mikelope]

AllergevKev wrote...

Because neither Mass Effect 1 nor 2 had happy endings right?

I mean, Mass Effect 2 did it perfectly. We're not asking for all roses and sunshine (well some are, but they're not thinking straight) There was still a lot of sadness coming out of the final run in Mass Effect 2, due to some of your squadmates being lost, but the overall feeling was that of victory.

Not only did none of our war assets (sort of the Mass Effect 2 equivalent of loyalty) matter in a meaningful way, but the ending didn't have any real happiness, aside from knowing your squad lived, but that was handled terribly.

Actually, I had no one left behind endings on my two blind playthroughs of ME2. I thought it was too easy. They wanted a tech expert, they got a tech expert. They wanted a good biotic, just remember Jack's and Samara's cutscenes and they got a good biotic. They wanted a leader, there's a squadmate whose passive is called 'Cerberus Leader' (I actually thought Jack was in trouble here.) etc.

ME2's main story is like the Seven Samurai. Get the best samurais in the galaxy and fight evil bandits. Deaths in Seven Samurai's ending made it really great, in my opinion.

I don't want a depressing ending either, but some sacrifice should be in order. And I agree that that ME3's ending is awful, that is not what I am defending.


edit: ME2's ending is really great. Making it more difficult for everyone to survive would have added more dimension to it I think.

Modifié par mikelope, 24 mars 2012 - 12:53 .

[mikelope]

TheTrueObelus wrote...

If they actually explained it as a galactic dark age where the various races survived and eventually found each other again decades or centuries later there would be some closure.

But they didn't explain anything.

Agree. I'm only defending the hypothetical scenario not the actual ending with the boy.

[General User]

In the immediate aftermath of the 2nd Battle of Earth...
The de-orbiting debris from the battle is, I should think, by far the most serious and pressing concern. However, the severity of that threat depends entirely on the exact condition the Galactic Fleet. Their condition may be such that they can interdict much of that debris.

It's important to remember that once all the fires (literal and otherwise) have been put out, no one is really in any immediate danger. The various militaries that took part in the battle should be able to sustain themselves out of existing stores for at least alittle while (longer with rationing).

And of course, in the "long" term... it's only a matter of time (and alot less time than some people might think at that) before someone achieves the technology to eitherconstruct their own mass relays or that makes mass relays themselves obsolete.

The trick, of course, is bridging the gap between the short term and the long term. But, even here, there is reason to be optimistic. The extent of the environmental damage to Earth is somewhat nebulous (at best) and there are additional garden worlds in the area. And despite the disparate nature of the constituent components of the Galactic Fleet, they are (for the time being anyway) disciplined and cohesive military forces.

Modifié par General User, 24 mars 2012 - 01:11 .

[Helishorn]

Spotty Squirrel wrote...

The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3 has a flow chart that shows the Prothean VI stating that the Crucible will cause a "galatic dark age".  Is a galatic dark age a reasonable price to pay for destroying the Reapers forever, or is the price just too high?

...

By calling it the dark ages, commonly called the Middle Ages by modern historians, and assuming this is a bad thing then one is also discounting all the accomplishments that were made during this period of time. This was not a dark period of time by no means it was a period of time that saw major and rapid technological advances.

Ploughs, wine presses, central heating, harbor cranes, mechanical clocks, compound cranks, gun powder, mills, the compass, spectacles, looms, glass making and water wheels just to name a few. Most of these inventions are still used today and a lot of them, like the loom, lead to the creation of other things like the computer.

With this in mind, the whole galaxy being put into a period of time comprised of high invention and technological advancement does not really seem like that bad of a thing to me. 

Sources:

Cathedral, Forge and Waterwheel: Technology and Invention in the Middle Ages
Connections by James Burke

If you would rather not read a book you can even check out the Wikipedia page for a list of some Midle Age inventions

Wikipedia

Modifié par Helishorn, 24 mars 2012 - 01:07 .

[CaptainZaysh]

VvAndromedavV wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Le sigh.  Another sun worshipper.  At least you spelled canon correctly, I suppose.

Wow, man, get over yourself.

Oops, I meant to poke fun at my own grammar Na*iism there. Sorry if that came across as a pop at you, I didn't mean it that way.

[CronoDragoon]

Helishorn wrote...

Spotty Squirrel wrote...

The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3 has a flow chart that shows the Prothean VI stating that the Crucible will cause a "galatic dark age".  Is a galatic dark age a reasonable price to pay for destroying the Reapers forever, or is the price just too high?

...

By calling it the dark ages, commonly called the Middle Ages by modern historians, and assuming this is a bad thing then one is also discounting all the accomplishments that were made during this period of time. This was not a dark period of time by no means it was a period of time that saw major and rapid technological advances.

Ploughs, wine presses, central heating, harbor cranes, mechanical clocks, compound cranks, gun powder, mills, the compass, spectacles, looms, glass making and water wheels just to name a few. Most of these inventions are still used today and a lot of them, like the loom, lead to the creation of other things like the computer.

With this in mind, the whole galaxy being put into a period of time comprised of high invention and technological advancement does not really seem like that bad of a thing to me. 

Sources:

Cathedral, Forge and Waterwheel: Technology and Invention in the Middle Ages
Connections by James Burke

If you would rather not read a book you can even check out the Wikipedia page for a list of some Midle Age inventions

Wikipedia

So the universe went from producing Crucibles to ploughs. Not very interesting.

[VvAndromedavV]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

VvAndromedavV wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Le sigh.  Another sun worshipper.  At least you spelled canon correctly, I suppose.

Wow, man, get over yourself.

Oops, I meant to poke fun at my own grammar Na*iism there. Sorry if that came across as a pop at you, I didn't mean it that way.

Thanks for clarifying. Without being able to read your body language or hear the intonation in your voice, yeah, that statement pretty much came off as extremely condescending and arrogant. I read it and thought, "Here I was enjoying debating with this guy and two hours later he's still on about this?" LOL

I don't think your interpretation of the explosions is wrong and yeah, it's probably what they intended but personally I think it could have used a bit more clarification as the way they went about it seemed sloppy (to me) and directly contradicted canon.

Additionally, as I mentioned, if you watch the explosion in Arrival and you watch the explosion at the end of ME3 it's basically the exact same animation with a different color---and yet one wipes out an entire system and the other one doesn't. Again, this seems sloppy to me.

I agree with you about Star Child's logic being valid. I don't like Star Child and I wish he/it didn't exist at all but the way people are over-simplifying his/its "solution" is just silly. The whole "I heard you don't want to be killed by synthetics so I made synthetics to kill you every 50K years so you wouldn't have to be killed by synthetics" is not even close to what is said in-game, and yet people are parroting that all over the internet as if that is what he/it actually said.

Modifié par VvAndromedavV, 24 mars 2012 - 01:29 .

[Ender99]

TheTrueObelus wrote...

If they actually explained it as a galactic dark age where the various races survived and eventually found each other again decades or centuries later there would be some closure.

But they didn't explain anything.

.....and if the explosion of the Mass Relay's didn't kill everyone, like they did the Batarians.....

[Rob_Nix]

They copied from Star Trek, Battlestar, The Matrix and now Foundation!

[Rob_Nix]

Let's not forget Ender's Game (Rachni).

[Strike2k2]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

zovoes wrote...

it's call the arrivle DLC and internal continuity. if a relay goes boom then it's a super nova and kills everything. the "we don't know that" argument is why poeple call it space magic, energy and radiation don't work like that. it would be like dunking you face in green lava and thinking because its green it wan't burn you.

That's ironic, because people who call it space magic obviously don't know much at all about physics.  An explosion is caused by the rapid release of energy.  That's why breaking the Alpha relay open with a huge asteroid caused the devastating explosion it did.

In the ME3 ending we see the relay discharge its energy before it explodes.  Less energy = smaller explosion.  People used to think the sun coming up in the morning was space magic too, y'know.

Even if we hadn't explicitly seen this in the cut scene, an intelligent person would realise that blowing something up by smashing a small planet into it is likely to cause different results from destroying an object via an energy pulse delivered from the central control unit of the network.

I'm sorry. You're grasping at straws. Before the relay in the Arrival DLC was destroyed it also released energy to send the Normandy into FTL. Is there a difference? Is there a difference in energy released or are we supposed to just ASSUME that there is one? Whos to say that the energy released wasn't microscopic in comparision to the energy that mass relays usually have? This is all just guessing, which means horrible storytelling.

So what you're saying is you get it that makes you smarter? Or you're smarter so you get it? Your argument is built on logical falicies. The main one being special pleeding. We can see the explosions from the galaxy map yet we are supposed to assume that those explosions were just color explosions. As a matter of fact, we never see a main star system after those cinematics so how do we really know if the SOL system is still standing. Plothole/bad storytelling.

[Ryoten]

Galactic dark age is dumb. I would prefer if the reapers won and we all died.

[Tony208]

To go from two Hollywood endings in ME1 and ME2 to this bleak dark sci-fi ending is complete nonsense. To say unicorns and puppies is a little overboard but no one expected this. I fully expected Shepard to die in some endings, live in others, and the reapers would be defeated at a heavy cost but not like this. Every single human and alien is screwed. You don't emotionally attach to these characters over hundreds of hours just to see them all die.

[Helishorn]

CronoDragoon wrote...

So the universe went from producing Crucibles to ploughs. Not very interesting.

Sure Crucibles to ploughs would not be very interesting. However the only bit of ancient technology I saw get destroyed was the mass relays and the citadel. This would not send people back in time in a technological stand point. I.e. they would not all the sudden forget how to build starships or other things. This would only inconvenience people for a brief period of time until they figured out how to build their own form of mass relay system or a more advanced form of engine that did better than 12 light years a day.

As for all life being destroyed....I don't buy it. Sure the Arival DLC stated that if that relay was destroyed it would likely take out an entire system but we don't know how the relays were destroyed. That is, the relays, being the largest collections of mass energy in the galaxy, may have used up all if not most of their energy sending out the reaper beam and simply had a small localized explosion once done more akin to a large ship being destroyed than a super nova. Still looking at the ending I saw my crew survive being hit by the blast and Shepard breathing after the blast so i doubt they killed many people at all.

[kramerfan86]

Problem is in two of the endings you dont actually eliminate the reapers forever anyways.  They are still out there and its just on good faith they wont ever attack again.

[WeAreLegionWTF]

If you remember the conversations with vigil and sovereign from 1 its pretty obvious the relays eventually had to go. However the way in which it was executed was weak, and the reapers ultimate reason for being was childish trite and fail logic.

I pretty much expected the game to end with the destruction of relays, i dont know why people have a problem with this, when the rest of the ending was so inconsistent.

[Strike2k2]

VvAndromedavV wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

VvAndromedavV wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Le sigh.  Another sun worshipper.  At least you spelled canon correctly, I suppose.

Wow, man, get over yourself.

Oops, I meant to poke fun at my own grammar Na*iism there. Sorry if that came across as a pop at you, I didn't mean it that way.

Thanks for clarifying. Without being able to read your body language or hear the intonation in your voice, yeah, that statement pretty much came off as extremely condescending and arrogant. I read it and thought, "Here I was enjoying debating with this guy and two hours later he's still on about this?" LOL

I don't think your interpretation of the explosions is wrong and yeah, it's probably what they intended but personally I think it could have used a bit more clarification as the way they went about it seemed sloppy (to me) and directly contradicted canon.

Additionally, as I mentioned, if you watch the explosion in Arrival and you watch the explosion at the end of ME3 it's basically the exact same animation with a different color---and yet one wipes out an entire system and the other one doesn't. Again, this seems sloppy to me.

I agree with you about Star Child's logic being valid. I don't like Star Child and I wish he/it didn't exist at all but the way people are over-simplifying his/its "solution" is just silly. The whole "I heard you don't want to be killed by synthetics so I made synthetics to kill you every 50K years so you wouldn't have to be killed by synthetics" is not even close to what is said in-game, and yet people are parroting that all over the internet as if that is what he/it actually said.

It's silly, yes. But also damn funny. I laughed so hard the first time i saw it. At face value though it fits simply because we (the player) isn't emotionally invested in characters 10,20 or 100 years from that point. We are interested in the characters that are currently with us. Characters that we have been on this massive quest to save the galaxy with. Killing me and my crew so we won't be killed/wiped-out in the future turns out to be the dumbest **** i've ever heard before. And i used to live in the bible belt. ROFL

[VvAndromedavV]

Strike2k2 wrote...

It's silly, yes. But also damn funny. I laughed so hard the first time i saw it.

It is damn funny, yes.

Strike2k2 wrote...

Killing me and my crew so we won't be
killed/wiped-out in the future turns out to be the dumbest **** i've
ever heard before.

But the Reapers harvest (and store in Reaper form) advanced civilizations only in order to preserve organic life as a whole.