429 réponses à ce sujet

[Strike2k2]

VvAndromedavV wrote...

Strike2k2 wrote...

It's silly, yes. But also damn funny. I laughed so hard the first time i saw it.

It is damn funny, yes.

Strike2k2 wrote...

Killing me and my crew so we won't be
killed/wiped-out in the future turns out to be the dumbest **** i've
ever heard before.

But the Reapers harvest (and store in Reaper form) advanced civilizations only in order to preserve organic life as a whole.

I know. I'm saying that's ****ing dumb. lol.

[CaptainZaysh]

VvAndromedavV wrote...

Thanks for clarifying. Without being able to read your body language or hear the intonation in your voice, yeah, that statement pretty much came off as extremely condescending and arrogant. I read it and thought, "Here I was enjoying debating with this guy and two hours later he's still on about this?" LOL

Yeah, that was the gag I was going for, that I was still really upset about it.  :-D

VvAndromedavV wrote...
I don't think your interpretation of the explosions is wrong and yeah, it's probably what they intended but personally I think it could have used a bit more clarification as the way they went about it seemed sloppy (to me) and directly contradicted canon.

I don't think anybody could argue with you that they could have executed it less ambiguously.  That's what I expect they'll do to correct the ending: add some extra dialogue with the Catalyst, and maybe expand on the cut scenes some.

Of course the Herd the Liners won't be satisfied with that, but at least they will be revealed for what they are: a bunch of cry babies who can't hack an ending without rainbows and unicorns, who are dressing up their emotional immaturity by wilfully misunderstanding simple things like the whole "I heard you hate being killed by synthetics" thing.

[CaptainZaysh]

Strike2k2 wrote...

I'm sorry. You're grasping at straws. Before the relay in the Arrival DLC was destroyed it also released energy to send the Normandy into FTL. Is there a difference? Is there a difference in energy released or are we supposed to just ASSUME that there is one? Whos to say that the energy released wasn't microscopic in comparision to the energy that mass relays usually have? This is all just guessing, which means horrible storytelling.

So you concede that if the answer is "yes", then this is a non-issue, right?  If that's the case then I agree that BioWare could have added more exposition to help those in the audience who couldn't work out that destroying every solar system with a relay in it was probably not the writing team's intent.

Exposition always comes at a cost of pacing, though, so I can see why they chose not to dwell on it.  In this case it was a bad call - they misestimated the ability of the audience to follow along without it being explained to them - but I can see why they made it.

Strike2k2 wrote...
As a matter of fact, we never see a main star system after those cinematics so how do we really know if the SOL system is still standing. Plothole/bad storytelling.

Shepard's survival in one of the endings confirms it, but I accept that a portion of the audience wouldn't necessarily have seen it.

[CaptainZaysh]

Scyldemort wrote...

Alternately, what if the "organics" invest huge resources into transcending their own limits? What if humans modify the human genome in such a way as to produce one that's smarter than a salarian? What if that human creates a new variant that's smarter than itself? What if we alter the brain in such a way as to vastly improve its processing speed, or set ourselves to go through a continuous cycle of our bodies resetting to, say, 20 years of age every 20 years? Or if you want to go for something specific to the mass effect universe, what if in the future humanity alters itself to be an entirely biotic race?

Synthetic life does not have a monopoly on that sort of advancement.

Yeah, if you could invent that kind of biological transcendance then you're right, there'd be parity.  My challenge to you would be that you could easily find yourself hoping for theoretical leaps forward in bioscience while the geth are actively working on their Dyson Sphere.

[ahandsomeshark]

I think it would be reasonable if you actually had the option. The problem if you don't have the option.

[CaptainZaysh]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I think it would be reasonable if you actually had the option. The problem if you don't have the option.

But if there were a choice to save everybody AND keep the relay network, why wouldn't everybody take it?

[ahandsomeshark]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I think it would be reasonable if you actually had the option. The problem if you don't have the option.

But if there were a choice to save everybody AND keep the relay network, why wouldn't everybody take it?

Well I don't neccessarily think it would have been save everybody. It might have been save everybody & relays but die yourself. Or save everybody but your crew dies. Or it would have been a choice you'd only gotten after making multiple other hard choices prior to it . Like the explanation posted last night where harbinger said he would spare earth if you gave up now and if you chose to spare earth you don't get to the later option and if you refuse you have to face some huge battle and see tons of people and possibly crew members die, who dies would depend on earlier choices, and then you get to the save everyone and keep the relay network open. Or even an option to sacrifice earth but keep the relays open (I might have actually done this).

[CaptainZaysh]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Well I don't neccessarily think it would have been save everybody. It might have been save everybody & relays but die yourself. Or save everybody but your crew dies. Or it would have been a choice you'd only gotten after making multiple other hard choices prior to it . Like the explanation posted last night where harbinger said he would spare earth if you gave up now and if you chose to spare earth you don't get to the later option and if you refuse you have to face some huge battle and see tons of people and possibly crew members die, who dies would depend on earlier choices, and then you get to the save everyone and keep the relay network open. Or even an option to sacrifice earth but keep the relays open (I might have actually done this).

Those all sound like interesting ideas.  My guess is that the dev team wanted to achieve a unified starting point for ME4, though, and they wanted it to be post-relays.  (I guess their idea is, go out and reclaim the galaxy.)

[Pallid]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I think it would be reasonable if you actually had the option. The problem if you don't have the option.

But if there were a choice to save everybody AND keep the relay network, why wouldn't everybody take it?

Well, some people said that they don't like happy endings, but love "grimdark", "bittersweet" or sad endings. I guess they will choose that kind of ending.

[Kilethion]

Hey even if the galaxy is plunged into a dark age, that leaves the door open for the next major title: Mass Effect 4 - Rise of the Amish

Modifié par Kilethion, 24 mars 2012 - 05:53 .

[CaptainZaysh]

omskman wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I think it would be reasonable if you actually had the option. The problem if you don't have the option.

But if there were a choice to save everybody AND keep the relay network, why wouldn't everybody take it?

Well, some people said that they don't like happy endings, but love "grimdark", "bittersweet" or sad endings. I guess they will choose that kind of ending.

Okay, but why would their Shepards choose that ending?  It seems pretty lame that in order to get an ending that isn't rainbows and unicorns we'd have to deliberately not gather EMS or whatever.

[mikelope]

Kilethion wrote...

Hey even if the galaxy is plunged into a dark age, that leaves the door open for the next major title: Mass Effect 4 - Rise of the Amish

Was ME4 really planned? If that's the case they can get inspiration from Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun. 

[Pallid]

CaptainZaysh wrote...
Okay, but why would their Shepards choose that ending?  It seems pretty lame that in order to get an ending that isn't rainbows and unicorns we'd have to deliberately not gather EMS or whatever.

Are you saying that bad ending without choice is a good thing, and a choice between good, bad, and may be "middle of the road" ending is lame? And that everybody will pick a happy ending regardless? Well then maybe everybody wants a happy ending, they just lie about their love for sad, dark or "bittersweet" stuff.

Modifié par omskman, 24 mars 2012 - 06:05 .

[Kilethion]

mikelope wrote...

Kilethion wrote...

Hey even if the galaxy is plunged into a dark age, that leaves the door open for the next major title: Mass Effect 4 - Rise of the Amish

Was ME4 really planned? If that's the case they can get inspiration from Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun. 

I don't know if ME4 is planned or not, I was just being sarcastic, considering the ending of ME3.

[mikelope]

omskman wrote...


Are you saying that bad ending without choice is a good thing, and a choice between good, bad, and may be "middle of the road" ending is lame? And that everybody will pick a happy ending regardless? Well then maybe everybody wants a happy ending, they just lie about their love for sad, dark or "bittersweet" stuff.

My opinion on this: based on the tone of ME3 from very beginning, bittersweet (which may have Shepard survive) is a good starting point up to a really dark failure ending. I just don't think you can have a very happy ending without stretching credulity.

[NormanRawn]

Spotty Squirrel wrote...

The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3 has a flow chart that shows the Prothean VI stating that the Crucible will cause a "galatic dark age".  Is a galatic dark age a reasonable price to pay for destroying the Reapers forever, or is the price just too high?

I think it is a reasonable, but very high, price to pay.  If the Reapers were not eliminated, they would destroy most of the Galaxy's life anyway.

I think your viewing the only possible outcomes, based on what BioWare showed you, but they could have just as easily wrote it another way, that solved the Reaper threat, and kept the Mass Relays in tact.

None of this happened, it isn't history, it's storytelling, and BioWare wrote a story that could have been written in another way. They could have just as easily wrote that the crucible just transferred the energy without destoying the Relay network.

I think a new game could have been just as interesting, by introducing new species and civilizations that would have been introduced in the next cycle, after the current one was purged by the Reapers. Seeing some of them be hostile and oppose the old galaxy's civilizations, a new "Contact War" for instance.

[HeliusCarthaxis]

In addition to our friends being stranded...its such a cadmean victory, it's ridiculous.

[CaptainZaysh]

NormanRawn wrote...

I think a new game could have been just as interesting, by introducing new species and civilizations that would have been introduced in the next cycle, after the current one was purged by the Reapers. Seeing some of them be hostile and oppose the old galaxy's civilizations, a new "Contact War" for instance.

I'm not sure I agree.  Any new threat has to pale into insignificance when compared with the Reapers.  So for me ME4 was always going to have to be on a much smaller scale (like playing a C-SEC cop solving murders, or something).  I couldn't see any way they'd be able to do a grand space opera again without trivialising Shep's efforts against the Reapers ("and we thought the Reapers were bad.  The Kreapers are EVEN MORE INFINITELY POWERFUL!").

I think the solution they've come up with is pretty awesome.  We now have an excuse to head back out into the galaxy on a mission of exploration.  Encountering what the asari, turians, krogan etc have become will be genuinely exciting once more.  And the next hero's efforts to reclaim the galaxy are as epic as Shep's efforts to save the galaxy, but they develop on the story rather than just rehashing it.

[N7Infernox]

Silent Rage wrote...

They don't even give us a choice to use it or not.

QFT

[Evil_medved]

But i played as Shepard who give no **** about galaxy and fight reapers only to save himeself and few people he cares about. But i end up as Space Christ no matter what i do. Why? Where "I don't like surprises, not when my ass is on the line" went?

[CaptainZaysh]

Evil_medved wrote...

But i played as Shepard who give no **** about galaxy and fight reapers only to save himeself and few people he cares about. But i end up as Space Christ no matter what i do. Why? Where "I don't like surprises, not when my ass is on the line" went?

Well, it's not possible for the devs to incorporate every weird personality type into their protagonist.  (I'd suggest that somebody so dysfunctional as to not care about the survival of his own species is extremely unlikely to ever rise to a position of serious responsibility in a democratic military, also.)

I mean, it's not possible for me to play as a Shepard who rejects war and wants to defeat the Reapers through nonviolent resistance, or a Shepard who rejects the burden of command and goes pirate with Jack because she's the love of his life.  But that's not a flaw with the game.

[knightnblu]

rma2110 wrote...

So it will become Fallout Effect 4? A post apocalyptic setting just wouldn't feel like Mass Effect.

That's right. Combine that with trillions of deaths subsequent to the destruction of the mass relays and presto! You have the situation at the end of the game with the Normandy magically escaping it all. But wait, there's more! It's going to take 230,000 years for everybody to get back together again! Good times.

[CaptainZaysh]

knightnblu wrote...

That's right. Combine that with trillions of deaths subsequent to the destruction of the mass relays

Are you one of those people who believes blowing up a relay by smashing an asteroid into it has to cause the same explosion as blowing it with an energy pulse sent from the network control unit?

Or are you one of those people who thinks societies are impossible to organise without mass relays?

[majormajormmajor]

[CaptainZaysh]

majormajormmajor wrote...

:-D