58 réponses à ce sujet

[Darpaek]

Poor OP getting all beat up on.



I like DA:O. I don't really have an opinion on the OP's opinions. However, as per the difficulty settings:



The game was intended to be played on Hard. There are several mechanics changes like full Friendly Fire, etc. Somewhere late in the development cycle they realized the game was pretty tough, so they switched the default to Normal (the original Easy) and created an easier difficulty (the new Easy, or Casual for the console kiddies). It's kinda like the default for Baldur's Gate - the game was intended to be played on Core, but the difficulty just below Core is actually the default (because Core was too tough for most people).



The reason I just wrote all that is - there's not a ton of difference between Hard and Nightmare. In fact, I really haven't noticed any differences other than NM enemies are a little thicker. Once you make the jump from Normal to Hard - there isn't really a challenge anywhere else beyond that.



And worse, every patch Bio puts out keeps making the stupid game easier.



So, for all your folks jumping on the OP, at least he's essentially correct in his analysis of the lack of difficulty settings.

[Blakes 7]

Thanks Darpaek, I read these forums sometimes and wonder how some people completely miss the points others are making. I guess where passions are involved you will get that from time to time. Have no fear through, I am thick skinned.

[Kaosgirl]

Volourn wrote...
Where is BG2's depth comes to mage lore? dwarven politics? the fade? the blight?

Drawn from the entire pre-existing canon of the Forgotten Realms universe.  

[Kaosgirl]

Darpaek wrote...

Poor OP getting all beat up on.

I like DA:O. I don't really have an opinion on the OP's opinions. However, as per the difficulty settings:

The game was intended to be played on Hard.

That's just... odd.  If that was the intended setting, why not call that one "normal"?

Oh, wait.  I get it - it's like vanity sizing, where they hand you a size 10 dress and call it a size 8?

[Darpaek]

GG KG. That made me giggle. Vanity sizing.



As per BG2 mage depth - those ancillary anti-mage spells BG2 included were amazing. Breach, Pierce Magic - totally revolutionized the mage duel. I was still in my PnP phase at the point in my life (well, near the end), but those spells because permanent fixtures in our PnP gaming.



If BG2 had Virulent Walking Bomb - it would have been PERFECT. =D

[Kaosgirl]

Darpaek wrote...

GG KG. That made me giggle. Vanity sizing.

As per BG2 mage depth - those ancillary anti-mage spells BG2 included were amazing. Breach, Pierce Magic - totally revolutionized the mage duel. I was still in my PnP phase at the point in my life (well, near the end), but those spells because permanent fixtures in our PnP gaming.

If BG2 had Virulent Walking Bomb - it would have been PERFECT. =D

Heh.  I hate hate *hate* vanity sizing.  

Honestly, I started playing on Normal because I thought it was... well, normal.  The default setting.  I played BG under "Core" because they described it as standard D&D.  I always go for 'standard.'  Not hard, not easy.
If Hard is what was intended as Normal, I have to start over again now

[Blakes 7]

Yeah I do remember a developer stating that for those used to tactical rpgs hard was the intended setting - for everyone else it was normal

[Darpaek]

Word to the wise:



When making the jump from Normal to Hard - learn Group Heal BEFORE you learn Virulent Walking Bomb... =D

[Godeshus]

 Started the game on Nomal...and got ROCKED hard. couldn't get past level 10. Poor leveling choices and all that. The game simply wasn`t fun at all. I didn't rage quit, though. I dedicated a couple of days on the forums reading up on people's tactics, and just experimenting in the game on a couple different origins, to get a better feel. The thing is, I learned the game; how it played itself out, some of the technicalities, etc. Now I'm playing through on Hard and it's not that hard, tbh.

What's the point? Anyone who learns and then knows the game, its quirks and tricks, its strengths and weaknesses, High points and shortcomings, will no longer be satisfied on Normal. Hard may even be unchallenging. The point is, you can't expect the same challenge on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th playthrough. You anticipate things that your character would never anticipate.

Things like "ok, there's a random encounter after this bit and it is hella tough, so I'm gonna make sure now when I level up my mage to give him spell "X", and I'm gonna make sure I have "y" character in my party because those guys over there were devastating me.  Of course the game will be easier when you're prescient. It doesn't mean, though, that the difficulties should be patched.  It means that you now have experience under your belt, and what may have been challenging before is now a walk in the park.

I'n not denying that the difficulty scaling could have been made more intuitively, though. I think level scaling should have been a bigger part. 

ie. easy: enemies are 3 levels below player character

Normal: enemies are on par with player character

Hard: enemies are 3 levels above player character

Nightmare: enemies are 6 levels above player character.

Add increasingly better ai throughout this as well.

Regardless, like I said, I don't think it needs to be patched, but perhaps for future sequels this could be considered.

Modifié par Godeshus, 01 décembre 2009 - 06:07 .

[Kaosgirl]

Godeshus wrote...

 Started the game on Nomal...and got ROCKED hard. couldn't get past level 10. Poor leveling choices and all that. The game simply wasn`t fun at all. I didn't rage quit, though. I dedicated a couple of days on the forums reading up on people's tactics, and just experimenting in the game on a couple different origins, to get a better feel. The thing is, I learned the game; how it played itself out, some of the technicalities, etc. Now I'm playing through on Hard and it's not that hard, tbh.

What's the point? Anyone who learns and then knows the game, its quirks and tricks, its strengths and weaknesses, High points and shortcomings, will no longer be satisfied on Normal. Hard may even be unchallenging. The point is, you can't expect the same challenge on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th playthrough. You anticipate things that your character would never anticipate.

True.

Though I have a different issue.  I see RPG and think in P&P terms rather than 'tactical computer mechanics' terms.  I start with a character in mind, level him as a character instead of according to the best mechanical advantage, and work with what I've got.  Doing that... sometimes I get a powerbuild that makes the game feel easy, usually I don't.

Godeshus wrote...
Add increasingly better ai throughout this as well.

I dislike this idea.  What I want in an RPG is 'appropriate AI.'  Mindless hordes that act like mindless hordes, and smarter enemies that make better decisions.  This should be independant of difficulty level.

In the spirit of the article cited, that would be sexy.

Modifié par Kaosgirl, 01 décembre 2009 - 06:35 .

[Wolfva2]

Skellimancer wrote...

Bah! Baldur's Gate 1 is the best..

NO!  Pools of Radiance!
Eye of the Beholder even! 
/ducking

[phordicus]

DAO having reams of backstory/history/lore doesn't automatically translate to it having "depth". they made an internally consistent alternate world full of stories that do not interact with each other and therefore present no level of complexity at all. there's nothing piquing my curiosity because i've got this portable library that gets expanded every time i click on a book somewhere. the only inheritance from bg/bg2 is the NPC development and interaction. it's hard to come up with epic plot lines, but to suggest DAO's main plot is anything near BG2's in originality is laughable.

[Darpaek]

Your job is to kill darkspawn.



If this were a PnP game, your character would neglect their combat skills? Even if you "have a character in mind", wouldn't your character react to their situation? If they're spending their days knee deep in darkspawn - are they seriously going to double on lockpicking because that's what they'd planned to do before they got conscripted into the GWs?

[Darpaek]

phordicus wrote...

DAO having reams of backstory/history/lore doesn't automatically translate to it having "depth". they made an internally consistent alternate world full of stories that do not interact with each other and therefore present no level of complexity at all. there's nothing piquing my curiosity because i've got this portable library that gets expanded every time i click on a book somewhere. the only inheritance from bg/bg2 is the NPC development and interaction. it's hard to come up with epic plot lines, but to suggest DAO's main plot is anything near BG2's in originality is laughable.

Alright... first off I LOVE BG2.  So I'm not going there.

But - REALLY - how original was BG2?  Even within the CRPG genre - captured... going to die if you don't hunt down your captors... It was called Curse of the Azure Bonds.

[Godeshus]

double post.

Modifié par Godeshus, 01 décembre 2009 - 06:57 .

[Godeshus]

Double post

Modifié par Godeshus, 01 décembre 2009 - 06:58 .

[Godeshus]

Darpaek wrote...

Your job is to kill darkspawn.

If this were a PnP game, your character would neglect their combat skills? Even if you "have a character in mind", wouldn't your character react to their situation? If they're spending their days knee deep in darkspawn - are they seriously going to double on lockpicking because that's what they'd planned to do before they got conscripted into the GWs?

I can't be understanding this. Please tell me that you're not saying that the way Kaosgirl plays her character in her game is wrong. Please.

[phordicus]

wtf. you made me google Curse of the Azure Bonds. either way, the Evil Horde that Threatens the World thing is about as cliche' as they get.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

I agree to that RPG games made now a day has lost alot of there charm as well... after having completed DAO a couple of times that is... it seem more like an MMO in and Singleplayer world as it is now... like WoW... or Starwars Galaxies or whatever, also you pretty much know what you can expect all the time in game... the older games from the Golden Era there was more unexpected content in a much more positive way...



I like playing DAO said that 100s of times now, but it lack some zass... some magic for long term gaming, you cannot chose between professions, the start is always the same when you have been through them all as in you are pre set no matter what you do in some kind of way..

[Sereaph502]

Just another person whining about how they can't have everything their way.



Nothing to see here.

[Darpaek]

LOL! Well, I feel I did you a courtesy by introducing you to CotAB. =D



And, in no way am I saying another's playstyle is "right" or "wrong". Simply, if you start with a character concept in mind - should you stick with the concept you had at the beginning without being influenced by the world around you. Maybe you wanted an all utility rogue... but if the world around you is constantly throwing you into head-on conflicts - shouldn't your character concept adjust accordingly with what the game world throws at you?

[adam_nox]

Having not played bg1 or 2 here's my thoughts on DA's story.



It is honestly kind of bland and at times contrived. Morrigan's story for example is very contrived. So is Sten's. No one is particularly interesting or surprising. I expected there to be something to loghains treachery, but he's either just crazy or it doesn't really explain.



There's a lack of connections. A game like this would have been ripe for interesting coincidences and correlations. Different characters realizing that they had a connection in the past they didn't know about. yet... nothing.



Everything is on the surface. The only mysteries are if the old chanters tales are true and the game doesn't touch it. The blight is plain, the archdemon is just some dragon. And while there are a few futile attempts to make some demons out to be a little less malevonent, it fails. Kill them all.



I don't even know what the darkspawn are. Are they goblins, orcs? Are they people transformed? Game doesn't really say. They say the taint makes grey wardens immune to the blight, which implies that people are transformed into darkspawn, yet we never see this happen to anyone.



I feel like maybe about a third of the story was cut, the important third, and then denerim seige was tacked on the end.

[Darpaek]

While a certain few story parts feel contrived, as a whole it seems that you've missed out on a lot of the game's story - probably due to user error. I could answer every one of your questions from listening to the dialogue and reading the codices.



However, this is the no spoilers forum and your post is incredibly inappropriate.

[adam_nox]

Darpaek wrote...

While a certain few story parts feel contrived, as a whole it seems that you've missed out on a lot of the game's story - probably due to user error. I could answer every one of your questions from listening to the dialogue and reading the codices.

However, this is the no spoilers forum and your post is incredibly inappropriate.

Not in this already spoilerific topic.   Fact is you can't come back with anything.   I didn't miss out on a single part.