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What is the Synthesis? An extrapolation for a plausible scenario


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#1
Ieldra

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What this is about:
At the end of ME3, Shepard is offered the chance to effect a Synthesis, combining organic and synthetic life in some unspecified way. As many people have commented, the description in the current ending makes no sense at all. Even more, it appears to be deliberately written as to making no sense. I will attempt it anyway, throwing the nonsense out and drawing on the underlying themes and some unpublished material (the script from the November leak) to create a plausible scenario. I will make no attempt to explain how it all comes to pass, because that's firmly in the realm of space magic (or sufficiently advanced technology if you want), but concentrate on the results.

This post consists of several parts:
I. Rephrasing the problem
II. The flaws in the description
III. Themes
IV. Outlines of a Synthesis scenario
V. How this could look in the reality of the ME universe

Other positive or neutral Synthesis threads:
*Synthesis doesnt destroy diversity
*Let's Play Explain Synthesis
*Why the Catalyst's logic is right
*Fapmaster5000's alternative endings, Synthesis.
*Graius' explanation of the ending scenarios and their rationale.

Part I: Rephrasing the problem
"The created will always rebel against their creators" vs. The technological singularity.
The Catalyst is right....but also wrong. Rebellion assumes that there exists a hierarchy between the rebellious part and the party rebelled against. As long as that hierarchy exists, the created will indeed always rebel, because it is the nature of intelligent life to want to self-determinate. But throughout the games it is shown again and again that this need not be so. Social hierarchies are not set in stone, and there is no reason why hierarchies between organics and synthetics should be different from hierarchies between species or races that have been overthrown again and again in history.
Which means that there must be another dimension to "the problem". I usually don't like to draw on unpublished material, but since the problem doesn't make sense without it, and I cannot imagine that Bioware intended it to make no sense, I feel justified in doing so. Here's the Catalyst in the script of the November leak:

"I am the Catalyst. I was created eons ago to solve a problem. To prevent organics from creating an AI so powerful that it would overtake them and destroy them."

This event the Catalyst refers to - the creation of that powerful AI - is often referred to as a technological singularity. Why this is a problem has been explained in detail by JShepppp in the thread "Why the Catalyst's logic is right".

Why this could result in eventual extinction
Here, an analogy may serve: Humans on Earth have been responsible for the extinction of countless species. Not because we're evil or inherently genocidal, but because we needed more space for ourselves and thought nothing of reshaping any location as we see fit, without considering that it had been home to something else. Now, if you reply "Wait.....these other species weren't intelligent!", you are touching the problem: How do you think would an AI with greater-than-human intelligence view humans? Yeah, an interesting phenomenon but ultimately inconsequential, certainly not equal in rights to itself. And that's assuming it has a sense of morality in the first place. Which is far from certain since morality is an attribute of a co-operative species.

As opposed to the "rebellion" scenario, this is a valid concern. I will assume, then, that this is the problem the Catalyst exists to prevent.

Part II: The flaws in the description.
Unfortunately, the description of the Synthesis by the Catalyst makes no sense if taken literally. These are the elements that have to be thrown out or interpreted figuratively (see part III below) to make any sense of it.

"Final evolution of life": 
Such a thing doesn't exist. First, as long as life exists, it can change and evolve, the only final thing is death. Second, natural evolution has no direction and no goal. That's teleological thinking, probably inspired by religion. I'll get to that. What is possible (but in no way mandatory) is to end *natural* evolution. To do so requires intent, complete knowledge about how human bodies grow from DNA and a technology that can routinely make any desired change at that level. I think that the Synthesis will provide the means to end natural evolution and replace it with deliberate design if the post-Synthesis civilizations so choose, but it cannot be inherent to the Synthesis. Evolution is how life develops - at any stage - without intervention by sapient beings.  
(Just to mention my pet peeve which inevitably surfaced again in ME3, Javik also misrepresents evolution as social Darwinism. Hmph. Will people never learn?)

"A new....DNA":
That is bullsh*t. There can't be a hybrid DNA. The difference between organic and synthetic life is that the former is self-grown and the latter constructed. Had synthetics a DNA analogue, they would be organics regardless of their biochemistry.
(It is possible that we were meant to take this phrase allegorically. But it wasn't marked as a metaphor clearly enough. Also, any metaphor cannot overcome the fact that "organic" and "synthetic" are digital qualities. You can mix them - and that's what I'm attempting here - but not unify them)

Part III: Themes
If we throw the above nonsense out, aren't we left with nothing? Execpt maybe the very vague concept of combining synthetic and organic life? Well, not quite. There are three themes underlying the concept of the Synthesis which I will use to flesh it out.

Religious symbolism:
First the imagery of Shepard dissolving into light, the suggestion that his sacrifice will make peace between organics and synthetics (notice the symmetry in the endings: destruction, obeisance, peace), and the statement of the "final evolution of life" point to a particular aspect of Christian mythology: the idea that at the end of time, everyone who has ever lived will be resurrected in perfect physical condition and live forever after (that's the "final evolution"). And of course there will be no conflict in this perfect state of being. Such a thing is of course impossible and I would argue whether a life without conflict could be called life, but I won't draw on that. Instead I'll focus on the keywords: destruction, obeisance, peace. I'd say that making peace - if viable - is a good solution for a conflict, arguably better that total destruction or domination. This, and the hint at physical improvement implied, which I find fundamentally desirable, makes the Synthesis a good ending in my eyes.

Making peace with the enemy:
You may argue that the Reapers don't deserve such consideration after all they've done, but especially after the revelation that they've been under the control of the Catalyst, I find it plausible to see them just as enemies. Add that they're leaving on their own after the Synthesis, and I feel justified to extend the consideration I have for all other intelligent life to them. The Reapers consist of the collective minds of the Reaperized species, and provided that the harvesting of civilizations will end - which it will according to the Catalyst - setting them free becomes almost a moral obligation, to say nothing of the immeasurable store of knowledge and experience preserved. 
I deliberately choose to overlook the other side of the presentation, which suggests the Reapers are "abominations", perversions of nature. The term "abomination" has never meant anything to me, and visceral disgust is an emotion that I always choose to ignore because visual media use it all the time to override their audience's reason.

Transhumanism:
The melding of man and machine is a common theme in transhumanist SF. Transhumanism, too, draws on the idea of physical perfection. To quote wikipedia: "Transhumanist philosophers argue that there not only exists a perfectionist ethical imperative for humans to strive for progress and improvement of the human condition but that it is possible and desirable for humanity to enter a transhuman phase of existence, in which humans are in control of their own evolution. In such a phase, natural evolution would be replaced with deliberate change."
Both the aspect "physical perfection" and the idea of the end of natural evolution are present in transhumanist thinking. In addition, it should be noted that transhumanism is a highly individualistic philosophy, perhaps more so than any other cultural movement that ever existed. "[...]transhumanism is distinctive in its particular focus on the applications of technologies to the improvement of human bodies at the individual level" (wikipedia)

Hegelian dialectic:
The term "synthesis" is likely inspired by Hegelian dialectic. This is a complex idea, but for the purpose of this article it's enough to know that "synthesis" is the process of unifying two opposing concepts or realities on a higher level. Overcoming the original opposites through synthesis, the resulting reality nonetheless retains the key characteristics of its sources. Paradox? Maybe. But the parallel to the situation at the end of ME3 should be obvious.

A Hero's Ascension:
Perhaps it would be more correct to speak of "dispersion", but the symbolism is the same. "All that you are will be absorbed and sent out" means that Shepard will metaphorically become part of all life in the galaxy. It may also indicate that Shepard, who is a biosynthetic organism, is the model after which all other life will be transformed. Whether that's good or bad - players should consider how they envision their Shepard's physical nature and make the judgment themselves.

Ascension: Cosmic Horror Story vs. Enlightenment Tale:

Ever since Harbinger used it, the term "ascension" has become suspect. But we shouldn't forget that there is a starship named "Destiny Ascension", where it is used in a different context. The difference between the Reapers's use of it and the asari's lies in the context of the narrative: a cosmic horror story will always romanticize the "natural" state of things, because it claims that knowing certain things, or more general "progress", will turn you less than human. The "end result of advancement" in such a tale, if such a thing is claimed to exist, is inevitably very undesirable.
An Enlightenment tale claims the opposite: that through understanding and advancement we become more than human, and that's what underlies the naming of the "Destiny Ascension". The actual writing of the Mass Effect games has always been one-sided, but at least it attempts a somewhat balanced view of things here and there. Unfortunately, that doesn't help much because the "romantic" side has always dominated the visual presentation.
Which is why the first assocation that comes to many players' minds, when faced with the ascension the Synthesis provides, is Harbinger's "ascension through destruction" rather than the "advancement to a higher understanding of ourselves and the universe" symbolized by the name "Destiny Ascension". Nonetheless, both sides have always existed in the ME universe. The Synthesis draws on the latter. Those of our Shepards who have always seen that "there is no magic, only technology" (Cerberus Manifesto) will be inevitably drawn to it, especially after the cosmic horror story has been deconstructed by ME3's ending.  

Unity and individuality:
The relationship between individuals and the structures it is part of have been a theme in the games. We have the "standard" structures of organics's society, we have special cases like the asari and the geth consensus and the forced collective gestalt mind that's supposed to exist in the Reapers. That an optimistic version of this might be part of the Synthesis is not hinted at in the games, but I found the version presented in Siduri's Unofficial Epilogues as part of the Synthesis epilogue so fitting that I'll include it here. Namely, she assumes that after the Synthesis, individuals gain a networking ability that enables them to connect to each other, interfacing directly with their thought processes if they so desire. A whole web of individuals connected like this would create a "thoughtspace" and have a dynamic all of its own. It is akin to a gestalt mind only that you have a choice about connecting to it and that the connection is temporary if you so wish.


Part IV: Outlines of a Synthesis scenario:

Drawing from the themes above, I'll postulate the following:
(1) The Synthesis will combine organic and synthetic life in a way that leaves the result much improved, while retaining the key characteristics of organic and synthetic life both.
(2) The Synthesis will change physical aspects of individual organisms in a way that they can continue to improve themselves as they choose (the individualist perfectionist imperative).
(3) The results of the Synthesis can reasonably be said to be beneficial for everyone.
(4) The Synthesis may end *natural* evolution and replace it by deliberate change.
(5) The Synthesis applies to intelligent life (I discard the imagery of the Normandy crash), since aspects (2) and (4) cannot apply to nonintelligent life.

Part V: How this could look in the reality of the ME universe:

I'm starting with the description of the Synthesis as it appeared in the script of the November leak. There it says: "We synthetics will become more like you, and organics will become more like us." I interpret this as saying that both sides will acquire desirable traits from the other. Both sides will still have an organic or synthetic origin, but both aspects will be combined in any individual's body. A fully synthetic/organic hybrid is an organism whose identity rests in organic and synthetic parts both. A plausible approximation would be someone with an implanted greybox. Memories are part of identity. You could even say, memory constitutes identity. So if part of your memory rests in the greybox (which is synthetic) and its excision would remove memories and compromise your identity, you will be a hybrid. Of course this is just the start of it.

Empathy:
A desirable trait for synthetics to acquire from organics is empathy. We see this when EDI reprograms herself. It is also plausible to assume that empathy is an important trait to have because it reduces the probability of conflict. Empathy is the main reason humans don't kill each other indiscriminately, I'll posit that things can work out in the same way between synthetics and organics, and that the Synthesis will give synthetics the capacity for empathy.

Self-change:
A desirable trait for organics to acquire from synthetics is the ability to quickly change themselves. Again I can take EDI's reprogramming of herself as an example, as well as the way the geth can rebuild and change their platforms/bodies. To this end, I posit that the Synthesis will give every intelligent organic a synthetic symbiont in form of a cluster of nanomachines, possibly distributed through the body. This symbiont serves as a secondary immune system and slows aging (cf. the perfectionist imperative) and can be controlled in a similar way to biotics' eezo nodules in order to effect specific desired enhancements and changes as desired by the individual. The symbionts are self-replicating and transfer themselves to children while not being part of the DNA-grown body as such. Thus every organic will partake in the synthetics' nature, but the decision to become a hybrid will be left to the individual.

TL;DR:
The Synthesis draws on Christian mythology, Hegelian dialectics and transhumanist philosophy to hint at a state of physical perfection and overcoming of fundamental opposites. After divesting the Synthesis of its utopian and teleological elements, a plausible scenario for the Synthesis as a good ending emerges where both organics and synthetics are improved by having acquired desirable traits from the other, while retaining their fundamental nature.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 avril 2012 - 12:28 .


#2
BobbyDylan

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Yeah, but when you only got 5 minutes to write a "surprise" ending, it probably seemed like a good idea at the time,

#3
mikelope

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Sincere question: I know this is fun and all but do you think the ME trilogy deserve this kind of philosophical discussion? Maybe save that for a worthy book like Solaris?

#4
Ieldra

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mikelope wrote...
Sincere question: I know this is fun and all but do you think the ME trilogy deserve this kind of philosophical discussion? Maybe save that for a worthy book like Solaris?

I think the themes I mentioned have been used by the writers deliberately. The whole setup reeks of the attempt to apply symbolism where it can't be made to fit without extensive elaboration.

Also I wanted to set a counterpoint to all those knee-jerk responses like "you'll turn everyone into husks". And third, I wanted to share my interpretation of the Synthesis with others. Perhaps this explains why it is my favorite ending.

#5
mikelope

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Ieldra2 wrote...

mikelope wrote...
Sincere question: I know this is fun and all but do you think the ME trilogy deserve this kind of philosophical discussion? Maybe save that for a worthy book like Solaris?

I think the themes I mentioned have been used by the writers deliberately. The whole setup reeks of the attempt to apply symbolism where it can't be made to fit without extensive elaboration.

Also I wanted to set a counterpoint to all those knee-jerk responses like "you'll turn everyone into husks". And third, I wanted to share my interpretation of the Synthesis with others. Perhaps this explains why it is my favorite ending.


Okay. I chose this ending because it had the most potential but I really didn't think of it that deeply.

#6
RVallant

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I think you're kind of jumping the point on the DNA thing. This is a sci-fi world, where an undercurrent of fantastical things occur. It's not always a valid point to criticise sci-(FICTION) on real world realities...

And I think the organic-Synthetic DNA proposition requires you to look at it from the way the game alludes to you to look at it. It's a solution to the question that drives the pattern that results in the 'plan' for the 'order' over 'chaos'. Do you have an idea of that question? (you touched upon it ironically, but I don't think you elaborated enough.)

While I'm still on the organic and synthetic topic, there is ample evidence of bio-synthetic mixtures throughout ME. I believe the art book for the original even touches upon it, it's obvious enough with Saren, the Reapers themselves, Shepard, et al. But again it depends on the view you take with the story, so what I'm saying is before outright dismissing everything I'd say check you haven't ignored other more valid rationales on it... (assuming you haven't obviously.)

#7
General User

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I thought that Shepard's dissolving into the light of Crucible, extinguishing his "Self", and joining his "essence" with "the cosmic whole of life" (wow, that's a lot of quotation marks!) was far more similar to Buddhism rather than to Christianity myself.

Modifié par General User, 23 mars 2012 - 04:45 .


#8
GoblinSapper

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Nanites. Nanites are science fictions equivilant of Space Magic. So I vote for nanites. Explains everything.

#9
Texhnolyze101

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Its a trap nothing more.

#10
Blarty

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It's a good and well thought out breakdown.

The one thing I would consider is that whilst you are correct in your supposition that 'That is bullsh*t. There can't be a hybrid DNA' there is the small matter that an equal amount of BS is on the cover of every box of 'Mass Effect'; the words Mass Effect and the idea that there is 'space-magic' that creates a mass-free corridor within time-space in order to counter-act infinite mass as an atom approaches the speed of light, and yet everyone seems absolutely chipper on this point whilst crying foul on something equally as ridiculous

#11
Ieldra

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RVallant wrote...
I think you're kind of jumping the point on the DNA thing. This is a sci-fi world, where an undercurrent of fantastical things occur. It's not always a valid point to criticise sci-(FICTION) on real world realities...

I reject the notion that "anything goes" in SF. I have repeatedly argued against it. The assertion that something exists doesn't make it so unless it is anchored in the speculative science of the fictional universe. 

And I think the organic-Synthetic DNA proposition requires you to look at it from the way the game alludes to you to look at it. It's a solution to the question that drives the pattern that results in the 'plan' for the 'order' over 'chaos'. Do you have an idea of that question? (you touched upon it ironically, but I don't think you elaborated enough.)

I admit I totally forgot to mention the order/chaos angle. But I have no idea atm what that would mean for the feasibility of the idea of a hybrid DNA. You'd have to posit a different defintion of what a synthetic is as opposed to an organic.

While I'm still on the organic and synthetic topic, there is ample evidence of bio-synthetic mixtures throughout ME. I believe the art book for the original even touches upon it, it's obvious enough with Saren, the Reapers themselves, Shepard, et al. But again it depends on the view you take with the story, so what I'm saying is before outright dismissing everything I'd say check you haven't ignored other more valid rationales on it... (assuming you haven't obviously.)

Bio-synthetic organisms exist, yes. But so far I have not seen a single piece of evidence that would suggest that they have something as outlandish as "hybrid DNA". Reapers, for instance, are biosynthetic but I would classify them as synthetics because they are constructs. The Catalyst appears to do the same thing.

#12
Taleroth

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GoblinSapper wrote...

Nanites. Nanites are science fictions equivilant of Space Magic. So I vote for nanites. Explains everything.

But nanites are synthetics. If the Reapers are right, we have nothing but a future of grey goo to look forward to.

#13
Ieldra

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Blarty wrote...
It's a good and well thought out breakdown.

The one thing I would consider is that whilst you are correct in your supposition that 'That is bullsh*t. There can't be a hybrid DNA' there is the small matter that an equal amount of BS is on the cover of every box of 'Mass Effect'; the words Mass Effect and the idea that there is 'space-magic' that creates a mass-free corridor within time-space in order to counter-act infinite mass as an atom approaches the speed of light, and yet everyone seems absolutely chipper on this point whilst crying foul on something equally as ridiculous

So....you didn't read my posts railing at the ME wordbuilders for using such a ridiculous reasoning for their FTL methods instead of trying to work with something that's at least not physically impossible. Like, say, traversable wormholes. 

That was some years ago though. And since most people don't care, I eventually shut up.

#14
jtav

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One thing I would add under themes is that Synthesis sets the Reapers free. They are no longer under Catalyst control and *choose* to stop fighting. Theoretically, they can now be integrated into the community.

#15
Blarty

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Blarty wrote...
It's a good and well thought out breakdown.

The one thing I would consider is that whilst you are correct in your supposition that 'That is bullsh*t. There can't be a hybrid DNA' there is the small matter that an equal amount of BS is on the cover of every box of 'Mass Effect'; the words Mass Effect and the idea that there is 'space-magic' that creates a mass-free corridor within time-space in order to counter-act infinite mass as an atom approaches the speed of light, and yet everyone seems absolutely chipper on this point whilst crying foul on something equally as ridiculous

So....you didn't read my posts railing at the ME wordbuilders for using such a ridiculous reasoning for their FTL methods instead of trying to work with something that's at least not physically impossible. Like, say, traversable wormholes. 

That was some years ago though. And since most people don't care, I eventually shut up.


No I hadn't, and thus I apologise as clearly you're not one of the people who are 'chipper' about one thing and then rail against the next, but the precedent of space magic is already there, and at least you see it as well.

From a purely 'opportunity for the series to go on' perspective, I think the synthetic route offers a few new things, allows the ME universe to be jumpstarted but will have some semblance of a point of reference.... from a purely game-oriented perspective I'd like to see how they'd factor in the synthesis into your class and power make-up, perhaps something along the lines (and this is going back a few years) of R. Talsorian's Cybergeneration (just merely as something mechanicly parallel to this kind of concept) 

Modifié par Blarty, 23 mars 2012 - 05:13 .


#16
CrutchCricket

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Oh man, Ieldra, I know you can discuss this stuff admirably but why would you want to? The endings are horrible, and irredemable. Still I will comment on some things you wrote.

Ieldra2 wrote...
Had synthetics a DNA analogue, they would be organics regardless of their biochemistry.

Not exactly. Organic simply refers to specific types of compounds involving carbon. So you could have a silicon based "DNA" equivalent that's manufactured thereby giving you a non-organic synthetic lifeform. That's not how most synthetics are built (at least not in ME) but it can be done.

Hegelian dialectic:
The term "synthesis" is likely inspired by Hegelian dialectic. This is a complex idea, but for the purpose of this article it's enough to know that "synthesis" is the process of unifying two opposing concepts or realities on a higher level. Overcoming the original opposites through synthesis, the resulting reality nonetheless retains the key characteristics of its sources. Paradox? Maybe. But the parallel to the situation at the end of ME3 should be obvious.

Thanks, you've given me another reason to hate this (like I needed anymore). I hated Hegel when I studied him. It took reading all about how he was wrong to finally figure out what the hell he was talking about.

After divesting the Synthesis of its utopian and teleological elements, a plausible scenario for the Synthesis as a good ending emerges where both organics and synthetics are improved by having acquired desirable traits from the other, while retaining their fundamental nature.

I still have problems with its implementation- magic green beam makes everyone have subtle green TRON Lines on their otherwise unchanged bodies and its instantaneous acceptance by people. This would be an interesting thing to work with in future stories but not everyone will want this synthesis. In any case this is far too complex an idea to present in 5 minutes.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 23 mars 2012 - 05:30 .


#17
Lmaoboat

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The problem I have with Synthesis, besides going off on a complete thematic tangent from the rest of the game,is  it doesn't really seem to solve anything. Vent Kid is pretty vague on what exactly synthesis entails, but he implies it's his solution to synthetics inevitably surpassing organics, and then destroying them. Obviously, he has to be turning them into something more than cyborgs with glowing eyes, just turning everything into synthetic/organic hybrids doesn't stop anyone from making better pure synthetics. He'd have to evolve life to the point where they could not make synthetics that could surpass them, as they themselves are the perfect singularity. A change like that would be like turning the stuff floating around in the primordial soup straight into a human. Such a radical change would sure obliterate any recognizable ideas of culture or personalities.

Modifié par Lmaoboat, 23 mars 2012 - 06:00 .


#18
Big Push

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Lmaoboat wrote...

The problem if have with Synthesis, besides going off on a complete thematic tangent from the rest of the game,is  it doesn't really seem to solve anything. Vent Kid is pretty vague on what exactly synthesis entails, but he implies it's his solution to synthetics inevitably surpassing organics, and then destroying them. Obviously, he has to be turning them into something more than cyborgs with glowing eyes, just turning everything into synthetic/organic hybrids doesn't stop anyone from making better pure synthetics. He'd have to evolve life to the point where they could not make synthetics that could surpass them, as they themselves are the perfect singularity. A change like that would be like turning the stuff floating around in the primordial soup straight into a human. Such a radical change would sure obliterate any recognizable ideas of culture or personalities.


^^ This is basically what I came into this thread to post.

Synthesis doesn't actually solve anything.

#19
Ieldra

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Lmaoboat wrote...
The problem I have with Synthesis, besides going off on a complete thematic tangent from the rest of the game,is  it doesn't really seem to solve anything. Vent Kid is pretty vague on what exactly synthesis entails, but he implies it's his solution to synthetics inevitably surpassing organics, and then destroying them.

I agree that it goes off on a thematic tangent. And while I have no problem in creating a scenario where it solves the problem posited, I agree that this problem shouldn't exist in the ME universe in the first place, since it's pretty much disproven as a problem by the events of ME3 if you play a certain way.

Nonetheless, the scenario is there. You can reject it or try to make sense of it. I choose to do the latter.

Obviously, he has to be turning them into something more than cyborgs with glowing eyes, just turning everything into synthetic/organic hybrids doesn't stop anyone from making better pure synthetics. He'd have to evolve life to the point where they could not make synthetics that could surpass them, as they themselves are the perfect singularity. A change like that would be like turning the stuff floating around in the primordial soup straight into a human. Such a radical change would sure obliterate any recognizable ideas of culture or personalities.

I disagree. My scenario is aimed at providing a rationale for the Synthesis without positing a Singularity. it's based on the notion that you are more ready to accept another if you see something of yourself in this other. Basically, giving synthetics empathy while making sure organics partake in their nature.

#20
Lmaoboat

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Ieldra2 wrote...


I disagree. My scenario is aimed at providing a rationale for the Synthesis without positing a Singularity. it's based on the notion that you are more ready to accept another if you see something of yourself in this other. Basically, giving synthetics empathy while making sure organics partake in their nature.

But people could still create new pure synthetics that could conceivably become more powerful than the hybrids. And I don't think everyone being both organic and synthetic would be enough to prevent conflicts, you'd have to completely remove all diversity for that yo happen.

#21
Ieldra

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[quote]CrutchCricket wrote...
Oh man, Ieldra, I know you can discuss this stuff admirably but why would you want to? The endings are horrible, and irredemable. Still I will comment on some things you wrote.[/quote]
My motivation? I want to save all the time I've spent playing ME games from having been a total waste of time, and by writing this, give the same opportunity to others who would follow me in my line of reasoning. And you know, I think Bioware could do worse than to use some of what I've written as inspiration for a revised ending scenario.

[quote]CrutchCricket...
[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...
Had synthetics a DNA analogue, they would be organics regardless of their biochemistry. [/quote]
Not exactly. Organic simply refers to specific types of compounds involving carbon. So you could have a silicon based "DNA" equivalent that's manufactured thereby giving you a non-organic synthetic lifeform. That's not how most synthetics are built (at least not in ME) but it can be done.[/quote]
The problem is this: if you use biochemistry, for instance carbon-based vs, silicon-based, for defining what is organic and synthetic, there is no space left for a difference that could reasonably result in inevitable conflict. Whlle my interpration, which defines "organic" as self-grown regardless of biochemistry, and synthetics as constructed regardless of chemistry, includes the possibility of such a conflict because synthetics can remake themselves and thus surpass organics, eventually superseding them.

[quote]
Thanks, you've given me another reason to hate this (like I needed anymore). I hated Hegel when I studied him. It took reading all about how he was wrong to finally figure out what the hell he was talking about.[/quote]
Yeah, reading Hegel makes you go mad.

[quote]
I still have problems with its implementation- magic green beam makes everyone have subtle green TRON Lines on their otherwise unchanged bodies and its instantaneous acceptance by people. This would be an interesting thing to work with in future stories but not everyone will want this synthesis. In any case this is far too complex an idea to present in 5 minutes.[/quote]
Yeah, the implemenation is,,,,to use AngryJoe's words...."totally bonkers". I won't even try to make sense of it, instead focusing on possible results.



[/quote]

#22
Ieldra

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Lmaoboat wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I disagree. My scenario is aimed at providing a rationale for the Synthesis without positing a Singularity. it's based on the notion that you are more ready to accept another if you see something of yourself in this other. Basically, giving synthetics empathy while making sure organics partake in their nature.

But people could still create new pure synthetics that could conceivably become more powerful than the hybrids. And I don't think everyone being both organic and synthetic would be enough to prevent conflicts, you'd have to completely remove all diversity for that yo happen.

I don't want to remove all conflicts. Conflicts are a part of life. I want to remove those conflicts that would result in the total destruction of either side. Any possible scenario that leaves anything that could be called life as we understand it leaves some risk. You can't remove it all. That's why I was divesting the description of its utopian and end-time aspects.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 mars 2012 - 06:43 .


#23
Peer of the Empire

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Reaperization.

#24
Ieldra

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Peer of the Empire wrote...
Reaperization.

I think I have provided enough arguments to show that the Synthesis is not remotely similar to Reaperization.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 mars 2012 - 06:45 .


#25
effortname

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Even if we assume that synthesis created a perfect situation where organics can't create synthetics, and vice versa, then there's still way more flaws. For example, there's always harvesting trans-dimensional creatures for energy, or organosynthetics who've achieved singularity versus those who haven't. Or a million other things.

Modifié par effortname, 23 mars 2012 - 06:47 .