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[Orthodox Infidel]

robbyiscool wrote...

"We are creating new content to clarify and add closure as per the request of many loyal fans! That's all"


I'm fairly certain thats not what we've been requesting.  Am I just mistaken and dissatisfied, or are they really just not listening correctly?

"We" are all requesting different things, some of which are mutually exclusive. To be fair to Bioware, their "listening correctly" depends on what their intent was.

If their intent was not to give us the impression that everyone in the galaxy except Joker, the Normandy crew, and Shepard's squad is dead from relay explosions and marooned on a jungle planet with an insufficient breeding population, and that the whole thing was possible because of a giant plot hole introduced in the last five minutes of the game, then they are listening to us more correctly than we might be able to realize. It's possible that the ending they intended made sense, but they utterly failed at portraying it.

If their intent was to give us the impression I outlined above, then yes, they're not listening correctly.

Also, "closure" is something a lot of people are asking for, and feel that the endings don't provide, regardless of whether they want a happy ending with blue babies or not. That word has been used to death by a lot of people who don't like the ending.

[spacefiddle]

The Smitchens wrote...
That seems to be unavoidable at this point.  But they've announced they're handling it.  I'm not suffereing from Stockholm syndrome here.  They've said they're going to heed our requests and give us something new. 

No, they have NOT said that.  What has been said repeatedly is they "stand by their artistic vision," and they're "going to provide clarity."  There is no way to read "give us something new" into this.  There's just not, at all!  They KNOW you're going to get your hopes up. 

It's ironic, they're only reading what they want to see, but they're taking advantage of that same tendency to string us along.  When the "clarity" comes out and the outcry goes up, they can say, "what? We never said anything about new endings!  Why are you insulting our artistic integrity? :(" and we look like the bad guys.

[The Smitchens]

Bantz wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...

Man. Bioware just can't win, can they? It's not like they specifically said what they're going to do with the new content. They've announced they're going to do something. It's not like they're going to divulge every last spoiler or even if they've fully committed to one specific direction to go. They're probably still weighing options, but at the least have decided to take some sort of action.

I'll take it as a victory. I've been holding the line like a bastard, but damn.

when you had your fanbase a steamy pile of dog crap for an ending and proclaim how "proud you are of it" and deliberately go back on promises made regarding the game you lose a lot of goodwill. Bioware can earn back alot of faith from it's customers  but right now they have to understand that anything they say/do is going to be viewed VERY sceptically until we get the full release of information.

It's like if bioware came out and said "we're adding new dialog to the ending to please our fans!' and people got excited because they were going to give us the chance to question starchild, only to get the DLC and find out the added dialog is Anderson ordering a pizza right before the final battle. We need more info before bioware gets the "You're the man now dawg!" treatment.

I'm not saying everyone needs to start kissing their ass.  But considering how much pessemism this one small announcement has garnered it just seems proprtionately out of whack.

[Eivuwan]

I'm going to be sad if the dlc is just them defending their ending decision while ignoring our main arguments. Oh well, it's better than nothing, but if this really happens, I'll be hesitant about buying future bioware games.

[Luiginius]

If they thought the ending fit well to the trilogy, what are the changes they'll do anything now that makes sense.
For all we know it might stuff like:"Learn how many babies joker and your li made, more details about starchild, what happened to Vega, did conrad verner get lucky, all of this and more in omega dlc"

[Nardy86]

Fiddlesticks!!! I want a happy ending and a sad ending...not "clarity". Bioware must have selective hearing (er, reading?).

Ballz to that, I give up. Much love, peace out.

[Spartan_472]

TheWerdna wrote...

But bioware is a buisness, and if the DLC will be payed for, they are going to make something that people who liked the ending would also buy.

Should that come to pass, I will NOT purchase the rest of Mona Lisa's face to complete the incomplete painting Bioware/EA sold us originally. I'll simply return their product and avoid all future items of theirs. I am an unhappy and conscientious consumer.

-Always Hope

[Midarenkov]

No amount of clarification can fix a fundamentally flawed and cliche story element. It cannot remain. . . Throw it out the airlock!

[Jack_Forest]

Well, let's wait and see. At least we have archieved something.
I too believe that they should rewrite the ending completely. Apart from the plot holes, the current ending doesn't even have any real philosophy in it - just some ideas, stolen from Battlestar Galactica, that contradict the entire previous storyline.
This whole thing is actually quite sad - the writers simply took bits from BG and Deus Ex and present it as "original artistic vision". I myself was making up stories this way when I was like 10.

[Chuvvy]

spiriticon wrote...

Clarify and Closure is totally fine by me. It's Bioware's story, so I want Bioware to end as as they originally thought.

For some reason I don't think they meant the ending to be construed as 'Shephard destroying the entire galaxy with his last decision'. It was just poor presentation.

I for one am very excited to see how they explain a green light turing everyone into robots, or the squad being on the normandy or how everyone on Omega didn't starve to death, or how the citadel got to th- Goddamn it, I'm back in anger again. Mother****er.

[Mcfly616]

Umm no....wtf? I'm sorry but when did Bioware forget what they created?

When did they forget what Mass Effect is?

Your Choice affecting the Outcome!!!!!

We were promised a finale with "choice/consequence" playing an even bigger role than ME2's suicide mission! Casey said it himself....


There's no choice....there's mass extinction!

The entire decision tree that's been branching out since ME1, all the sudden gets bottle-necked into 3 choices....Wow..

In ME2, any number between 1 through 12 could die, based on your decisions..they could all live, they could all die, or some can die, or 1 can die....like why wasn't this implemented in ME3, when.Casey said.it would be?

I don't get it....it goes against everything they built this series to be....I'm not asking for a happy ending....I'm saying the ending should be more varying and numerous than ever before....

And there's no excuse for it not be....we just made another full games worth of decisions, which makes it 3 games of decisions.....only to have Starchild tell us, illusion is a choice....

If this isn't remedied, I will never look their way again...

Loyal Fan for over a decade....

[spz123]

Once again people jumping to conclusions over a vague statement. They are doing something and I'll remain open-minded about it until I see it.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Panicomatic wrote...

They can't change the ending, you know this, right?

They can build on, expand on, add to, but cannot change the ending. If they changed the ending it would make investors very nervous. Why? Because it would be an admission that the game's ending was wrong. Best they can do is clarify what happened in the ending. Which best case scenario IMO would be that Shepard was fighting indoctrination and then we get a real ending.

They are meeting us halfway.

Investors don't care about whether the ending was garbage or not, just that the game is profitable. Bioware could release a DLC that puts everyone in pink mumus and changes the whole plot of the game to picking up a hamburger at the local fast food restaurant and the investors wouldn't care as long as it made the EA/Bioware money.

EDIT: Note that this is not the same as expecting Bioware to say they got it wrong. That would make investors nervous, because it would affect sales, not because they care about artistic integrity.

Modifié par Orthodox Infidel, 23 mars 2012 - 06:08 .

[Chuvvy]

Nardy86 wrote...

Fiddlesticks!!! I want a happy ending and a sad ending...not "clarity". Bioware must have selective hearing (er, reading?).

Ballz to that, I give up. Much love, peace out.

Well put dog. Respect.

[savionen]

"Harbinger had an important phone call interview and had to leave abruptly."

"Nobody saw Shepard go up because the scouter wasn't wearing his glasses that day."

[ChampDude]

I'll wait to see what the content is before I judge it, who knows, maybe it will be exactly what I'm looking for. But if it doesn't address our concerns, you can bet I'll be right back here letting them know

[MattFini]

Best of luck to them in all their future endeavors if this is all they're doing.

[The Smitchens]

spacefiddle wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...
That seems to be unavoidable at this point.  But they've announced they're handling it.  I'm not suffereing from Stockholm syndrome here.  They've said they're going to heed our requests and give us something new. 

No, they have NOT said that.  What has been said repeatedly is they "stand by their artistic vision," and they're "going to provide clarity."  There is no way to read "give us something new" into this.  There's just not, at all!  They KNOW you're going to get your hopes up. 

It's ironic, they're only reading what they want to see, but they're taking advantage of that same tendency to string us along.  When the "clarity" comes out and the outcry goes up, they can say, "what? We never said anything about new endings!  Why are you insulting our artistic integrity? :(" and we look like the bad guys.

We don't know that yet.  I don't know if I'm the only one that has noticed this yet or not, but the content hasn't been released yet.  We just plain don't have any kind of basis for this argument.  People are flustered over semantics.  That's it.  It was one sentence that has been read into clearly way too much.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.  That's all I'm taking it as until I see what it is they bring out.

If only there was something that said they were doing this at the behest of their fanbase.  Oh wait.

Link to ME3 Twitter page/Tweet in question

Screenshot of Tweet:

[Evil_medved]

If this is all, this is not enough.

[Silasqtx]

/facepalm

Just add other options, other endings, whatever. Putting a flower near a vomit puddle, as artistic as it would be, doesn't change the fact that a vomit puddle stays a vomit puddle.

[antony1197]

No its not fair we were promised this Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”


Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”


Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people”


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

Whether you're happy or angry at the ending, know this: it is an ending.
BioWare will not do a "Lost" and leave fans with more questions than
answers after finishing the game, Gamble promised.

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations.”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”

Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”

Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is.”


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html

"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a totally different way of playing"


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.”

Guys its just not right

[Scalpels]

The Smitchens wrote...

I'm not saying everyone needs to start kissing their ass.  But considering how much pessemism this one small announcement has garnered it just seems proprtionately out of whack.

Many people, including myself, have lost faith in Bioware. Some have lost it from just ME3's ending. Some have lost it over time since ME2, DA:O day 1 Dlc, DA2 and ME3.

The challenge is for Bioware to fulfill the promises they made in interviews and via press releases. They have to prove again that they are still the company they were before EA bought them.

This is not something that can be fixed by adding scenes explaining what occurs on the Citadel or what happens to your crew.

[Mnementh2230]

How about they make an ending that MAKES SENSE instead of this reaper-starchild-THING? How about an ending that actually follows proper dramatic structure?

[Echo_V]

DreamTension wrote...

Also note that this may not be all negative
Clarification = more details, more explanation, less plotholes and inconsistencies.
Closure = real endings to this wonderful gaming experiences that depend on your action.

I'm hopelessly optimistic. Love you Bioware!!! Please?

same here :innocent:

i will just wait and see what they are coming up with! If they can't fix the plotholes...well, I have faith in you, bioware, you won't let us down again

I can understand why they choose to give vague comments. It's not like one person who decides what the next step will be. They have to consider so many outcomes. But i can also understand why so many players get ticked off by these statements...why did all of this happen in the first place, dam n endings >_<