649 réponses à ce sujet

[Joy Sauce]

"Clarify" and "Closure" could mean literally anything, and I have no doubt that they will make as minimum an effort as they can if they think they can get away with it. I do not consider that announcement to be a victory in any way, shape or form. There is just too much uncertainty at this point for me to feel comfortable.

[Aetika]

TheWerdna wrote...

Honestly, I never expected Bioware to change the endings, that would be unfair to the people who did like them (no matter how much I or anyone else hates the endings, that would be selfish on our part)

Instead I think it is more reasonable to ask/hope for two things

Additional scenes explaining and expanding on the endings. What should be accomplished in this is to fill in plotholes, makes the endings more different from each other (show us the impact and effect they had), show more scenes with the other characters (giving more closure) and scenes showing the outcome some of our other choices. Also perhaps have a scene showing Shepard and LI reuniting in the ending where Shepard lives.

Then, in addition to this, add a couple of new endings. That way there are more choices and more outcomes, both good and bad. (something that would be beneficial to both people who liked the endings and those who didn't)

These two things would not only benefit those of us who dislike the endings (by giving closure and some more choices), while not upseting the people who were okay with the endings. This would be the most beneficial solution to all invovled.

Actually, this would fit into "clarify and add closure" statement pretty well. They might add informations(clarify) about Catalyst etc. to fill some plot holes and through different closures create more variable endings as TheWerdna nicely described. I can totally see that and I think that could really help. Let´s hope:happy:.

Modifié par Aetika, 23 mars 2012 - 07:08 .

[Wildhide]

If they're going to try and clarify a poorly written and tasteless ending to me, then I simply won't be buying anything from Bioware again that isn't from the bargain bin. They'll have told me they don't want my money for a decent product.

[-Skorpious-]

TheWerdna wrote...

Honestly, I never expected Bioware to change the endings, that would be unfair to the people who did like them (no matter how much I or anyone else hates the endings, that would be selfish on our part)

Instead I think it is more reasonable to ask/hope for two things

Additional scenes explaining and expanding on the endings. What should be accomplished in this is to fill in plotholes, makes the endings more different from each other (show us the impact and effect they had), show more scenes with the other characters (giving more closure) and scenes showing the outcome some of our other choices. Also perhaps have a scene showing Shepard and LI reuniting in the ending where Shepard lives.

Then, in addition to this, add a couple of new endings. That way there are more choices and more outcomes, both good and bad. (something that would be beneficial to both people who liked the endings and those who didn't)

These two things would not only benefit those of us who dislike the endings (by giving closure and some more choices), while not upseting the people who were okay with the endings. This would be the most beneficial solution to all invovled.

I have been saying this the whole time. Bioware doesn't need to destroy the current endings to satisfy most of us; all we want are additional endings.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 23 mars 2012 - 07:12 .

[tiger-tron]

I don't want them to "clarify" and add "closure". I just want an ending that doesn't suck. Seriously, an epilogue that simply adds a bit to the end is not what I want. It doesn't fix the major issues with the ending.

[logan23tom78]

"Clarify" and "Closure" could mean anything.

What I suspect is going on right now is that the Designers are butting together plans on how this could be built, what new assets will need to be made and the over all time schedule and budget.

Bioware will need to get EA approval or find common ground on how this will all be payed.
I'm sure paid DLC to Free DLC has been discussed and what is needed to solve this issue.

If Bioware does Free DLC but then what is provided does not actually solve any issues or cover what the feedback is asking for then the Mass Effect IP will still have this dark could over it and the trust with Fans will further fracture.

If they determine to actually satisfy the feedback coming from the fan base they determine that it will cost a good deal of money then Bioware and EA need to look at can they charge for this and what can they get away with for example 3 dollars for a large content DLC ending or they could bundle it with another DLC and charge you for the price of 1 DLC and you get two,...Even the idea that they could raise the price of future DLC by a dollar to cover the major cost of the new DLC ending.

When it comes down to it they are giving themselves wiggle room because if the DLC ending does not cover what the fan base see as the issues you will see the decline in future single player DLC for ME3. EA/Bioware might have to take a small hit with the cost of this ending DLC in order to guarantee their other mass effect IP side projects are successful financially.

I truly believe the Game Designers would love to go back and add in more to the game they love. It comes down to the budget. If they are given a good budget they could make something great.

Modifié par logan23tom78, 23 mars 2012 - 07:19 .

[General Jack D. Ripper]

They really aren't listening are they? I get that BW has been on a hot streak when it comes to reviews and their games, but for ****'s sake BW, learn to take some criticism.

[Sc2mashimaro]

robbyiscool wrote...

"We are creating new content to clarify and add closure as per the request of many loyal fans! That's all"


I'm fairly certain thats not what we've been requesting.  Am I just mistaken and dissatisfied, or are they really just not listening correctly?

"creating new content" - this we definitely asked for.

"to clarify" - sounds like they may be addressing some of the "plot holes" and parts that people were confused by in the ending. This could also indicate an effort to retool the rhetorical tone of the ending to better match the themes of the rest of the game - in other words, to clarify the intention of the ending. These are major things we have been asking for. Could they still fall short of our expectations here? Yes, of course they could, but better to under-promise by saying "clarify" than to say "will fix everything!" and fall short of what we want.

"and add closure" - this sounds like the other major sticking point for most fans. It actually shows that they realize it isn't about a sunshine and rainbows ending, but rather about feeling closure to the story. There are a number of right or wrong ways they could approach this, but this is definitely something we have been asking for.

In the end, their fix may not be as good as we would like it to be. We all need to be prepared for that fact. Bioware is not made up of mind readers (despite what the excellent story telling on Rannoch and Tachunka would tell you), but they do seem to be made up of people who genuinely care that the ending fell short and want to make a good-faith effort to patch it up. And THAT good faith effort says a lot about them.

Sit back and wait to see what they come up with, it won't be everything we wanted - it could never possibly live up to that - but it will hopefully give some of exactly what they said: clarification and closure. Personally, I think it speaks very highly of Bioware that they are willing to make this gesture and I am excited to see what they will do with the opportunity to do a little reimagining and retooling to their ending.

[Sesshaku]

Joy Sauce wrote...

"Clarify" and "Closure" could mean literally anything, and I have no doubt that they will make as minimum an effort as they can if they think they can get away with it. I do not consider that announcement to be a victory in any way, shape or form. There is just too much uncertainty at this point for me to feel comfortable.

This.

Well, if they want to act like ass#@~@ fine, but don't count on me on buying more games. If they just bring us a crappy DLC that poorly tries to explaing so many plotholes, then Bioware is dead to me.

[Melancholic]

Clarify:
"It's all indoctrination, guys. Read the codex!"

Closure:
The real ending.

Wishful thinking...

[Vovea]

I'm trying to stay neutral and not rant about anything, but a vague tweet doesn't sound like a good sign. The issue was never that the ending wasn't clear. The reasons people hated it have been stated in a massive list of videos, threads and posts that have nothing to do with that.

A little announcement like that is probably to try and quiet most of the rage from the major fans who are invested enough to follow the franchise on twitter or post on forums about it.

I'm betting what we'll get is a pre-ending mission containing lore about the Citadel. Maybe a character has a theory about how the Reapers were made or what the Catalyst is. Something vague that relates to the end in a wink, nudge type of way.

[Yokokorama]

tiger-tron wrote...

I don't want them to "clarify" and add "closure". I just want an ending that doesn't suck. Seriously, an epilogue that simply adds a bit to the end is not what I want. It doesn't fix the major issues with the ending.

Its downloadable content.  They can add a new ending, and whoever liked the old endings can simply NOT download it.  I really don't understand why people are overcomplicating it so much.  They can add new endings without 'destroying' the old endings.

[comrade gando]

Melancholic wrote...

Clarify:
"It's all indoctrination, guys. Read the codex!"

Closure:
The real ending.

Wishful thinking...

Scoped and dropped! I think thats exactly what it is. Also wishful thinking on my part though.

[leytMEknow]

Too vague for me to speculate. I remain optimistic, though.

[Nastrod]

I want the feel good sunshine and lollipops ending. I am not really complaining either way though. ME3 was a great game.

Modifié par Nastrod, 23 mars 2012 - 07:33 .

[Complistic]

sounds good

[I have to go]

No complaints here.

[Sequin]

People, this is called good news. Okay? All we know is, Bioware is going to offer closure for those who felt short-changed. Hold out judgment until it is released, sure, but don't throw around ultimatums before details are even revealed.

Because yeah, that would really motivate me to develop DLC, knowing if it doesn't fit the perfect mold it will be boycotted. If this is the direction you guys are going then I can't understand Retake's position anymore. And although I do not always agree with you guys, up until reading some of the posts in this thread I've had a great deal of respect for your cause and direction.

So, help me out, Shepard, because the line between friend and foe is beginning to blur.

[Skyblade012]

The Smitchens wrote...

Scalpels wrote...

I see what you mean. Wait for them to release the DLC before passing judgement.

I think, at the moment, people are disatisfied with the level of communication and they are not heartened by the official announcements only pushing the "clarity" and "closure" angles. I can only speak for myself, but I think it is important to make sure that these two angles are not the only issues addressed. The primary issue (and the hardest/most expensive to resolve) is the one of choice.

If they added "choice" into their announcements it would go a long way. "Clarity" and "closure" imply that the ending (singular) will not be changed. "Choice" would go a long way to addressing the primary issue: We were promised 16 changes based upon our choices from earlier games. We were given 3 choices that lead to one ending (Galactic Holocaust/Dark Age) that were based on what the Star Child gave us.

Most people, I think, don't understand how statements work.  There are a lot of legalities involved and it's a really fine line as to what you are allowed to say.  I don't know 100% if this is the case here, but when it comes to announcing things they usually come with what's called an embargoed date.

That means that legally people aren't allowed to spill any kind of details on something until X date has been reached.  Consequences can be as simple as someone losing their job or as vast as a law suit.

What they're probably doing is just trying to keep everyone level headed and hopeful for future content while not breaking their rules.  You can see how well that's working out so far.  I don't mean this as offense, but I think a lot of people don't want to wait any longer, but we don't get that option.  We have to.  All this has done thus far is make it worse on ourselves.

If statements have to be vague and noncommital due to issues of legalities, how come the endings we got still meant that 90% of the developer statements on this game's conclusion were outright lies?

Sorry, the post isn't that vague.  It's says they are clarifying and adding more closure.  That's not that vague, and it gives me no reason to expect any good to come from their new work.

[Denethar]

Like I've said before, I'll buy it and give them a chance. Do I think it will actually make me buy any other DLC or one of their games again?, doubtful, Godchild will still be there sadly. I would like working relays and perhaps a chance to reunite with my crew.

[count_4]

robbyiscool wrote...
"We are creating new content to clarify and add closure as per the request of many loyal fans! That's all"

Too bad you can't clarify logical fallacies away...or teleporting squadmates.
Somehow I feel this will be even worse. But it's clever of them. They are doing something and if we keep complaining because it is still BS, we are the villains once and for all.

[Beldamon]

Honestly I believe the only way to properly fix it properly is a complete do-over.

I don't believe that will be possible, though, so enough people have come to the fore in support of the current endings.

So likely the best compromise we can hope for is they expand the range of possible endings (maybe even enough to fill out that 16? No, ok, too optimistic) to better reflect what was said in pre-launch interviews.

I know anything less would be insufficient. For me, at least.

Yes, 'clarity' and 'closure' are important and should be part of the 'content' they are working on, however that only covers a small portion of the issues regarding the endings.

[Sc2mashimaro]

Yokokorama wrote...

tiger-tron wrote...

I don't want them to "clarify" and add "closure". I just want an ending that doesn't suck. Seriously, an epilogue that simply adds a bit to the end is not what I want. It doesn't fix the major issues with the ending.

Its downloadable content.  They can add a new ending, and whoever liked the old endings can simply NOT download it.  I really don't understand why people are overcomplicating it so much.  They can add new endings without 'destroying' the old endings.

This is one thing that Bioware's PR has not done as good of a job conveying as they really need to: the reason Bioware is not saying "I'm sorry, we screwed up" and just making an entirely new ending is because this issue causes a conflict with two of their core values as a company. This did not become clear to me until Dr. Muzyka's letter came close to spelling it out (which they SHOULD do, so fans understand what is going on). These two values are: listening and placing value on fan/community feedback AND treating their development teams and their products as "artist" and "art". That's not the precise phrasing Bioware might use, but that's what the conflict boils down to. This is not to say that art cannot be changed: it can, but art is always changed BY THE ARTIST. The artist might do so in reaction to consumer response or simply because they don't like their own work, but it is their perogative to make any and all changes. Bioware is trying to walk a line between this value and "listening and responding to feedback" - which explains their lack of apology and vague language a lot better than "they are horrible and greedy and don't care".

They obviously care, but they also seem to care about how their artists/developers are treated internally. This is another reason why what I've been saying about it not being "us vs. Bioware" is important - we're not fighting the company, we are trying to bring them around to our way of thinking. Doing this will be much more effective at getting the kind of response we are looking for than calling Bioware's spokespersons "liars" and being paranoid about "PR spin".

[GorrilaKing]

count_4 wrote...

robbyiscool wrote...
"We are creating new content to clarify and add closure as per the request of many loyal fans! That's all"

Too bad you can't clarify logical fallacies away...or teleporting squadmates.
Somehow I feel this will be even worse. But it's clever of them. They are doing something and if we keep complaining because it is still BS, we are the villains once and for all.

And this is exactly the reason why I am probably not going to trust BW and EA with a new product anyway. I will probably buy DLC that comes for ME3 if they fix the ending but that is it.
The way we are treated, not as customers voicing a legitimate complaint but as outright enemies to be outmaneuvered and badmouthed shows how little regard EA and its subsidiaries have for the people who basically pay them (they are not big enough to have it all come from the stock market). And hey, why should I put my trust in people to whom I am the "enemy"?

[SCJ90]

Sigh.... I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO hope that they listen to us instead of thier own damn interpitaion!