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#401
tiger-tron

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Yokokorama wrote...

tiger-tron wrote...

I don't want them to "clarify" and add "closure". I just want an ending that doesn't suck. Seriously, an epilogue that simply adds a bit to the end is not what I want. It doesn't fix the major issues with the ending.


Its downloadable content.  They can add a new ending, and whoever liked the old endings can simply NOT download it.  I really don't understand why people are overcomplicating it so much.  They can add new endings without 'destroying' the old endings.

Well yeah, thats what we want. A DLC that adds a new ending. The minority that like the current ending don't have to download it.

Not sure what your point is...:S

#402
CGramn

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All I hear is: "Our endings were fine. You want some more of this?"

Because really, it's been stated over and over that they fully believe the ending they gave us was sufficient, and there has been no sign of them ever believing that anything should be changed.

The flaws of the ending can only be removed at its root, which, it would appear, is never going to happen. It's sad, but I really have no interest in having them "clarify" the ending for me, because no amount of exposition is going to turn this ridiculous ending into something believable.

I think the collective voices of "Lots of speculation from everyone" on this subject proves that point quite clearly. If the same large group of people who found all the plotholes are unable to logically explain them away with anything but hallucination, then there is very little hope that the people who wrote that abomination is going to be able to.

#403
The Almighty Ali

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Well we don't know what the Clarify and closure contains, For all we know the Clarfiy part could be indoc. theory and the closure part could be new endings.

Like usual it's all speculations and thus jumping the gun isn't reliable.

#404
hatori1181

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/sigh
Really, Bioware. A couple of minutes of additional dialogue and a couple of DA:O blurbs are not gonna cut it.

#405
Yokokorama

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tiger-tron wrote...

Yokokorama wrote...

tiger-tron wrote...

I don't want them to "clarify" and add "closure". I just want an ending that doesn't suck. Seriously, an epilogue that simply adds a bit to the end is not what I want. It doesn't fix the major issues with the ending.


Its downloadable content.  They can add a new ending, and whoever liked the old endings can simply NOT download it.  I really don't understand why people are overcomplicating it so much.  They can add new endings without 'destroying' the old endings.

Well yeah, thats what we want. A DLC that adds a new ending. The minority that like the current ending don't have to download it.

Not sure what your point is...:S


I was just agreeing with what you said and building upon it.

#406
Sc2mashimaro

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count_4 wrote...

robbyiscool wrote...
"We are creating new content to clarify and add closure as per the request of many loyal fans! That's all"

Too bad you can't clarify logical fallacies away...or teleporting squadmates.
Somehow I feel this will be even worse. But it's clever of them. They are doing something and if we keep complaining because it is still BS, we are the villains once and for all.


Actually, you can clarify logical fallacies away - if the story was presented in an incomplete fashion. Which is exactly what seems to have happened.

And, no, you don't have to be happy with the new ending, but the fact that they are responding by CREATING NEW CONTENT (costing them time, resources, and money that could be spent elsewhere) speaks highly of Bioware's commitment to their values (listening and responding to fan/community feedback). So, you don't have to like the ending they make (the one you are judging before you see) but you are hurting the community if you can't see the gesture for what it is: an attempt to mend things with fans who were unhappy. And that is admirable, regardless of whether they ultimately succeed or fail to meet our expectations.

#407
GorrilaKing

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Sc2mashimaro wrote...

This is one thing that Bioware's PR has not done as good of a job conveying as they really need to: the reason Bioware is not saying "I'm sorry, we screwed up" and just making an entirely new ending is because this issue causes a conflict with two of their core values as a company. This did not become clear to me until Dr. Muzyka's letter came close to spelling it out (which they SHOULD do, so fans understand what is going on). These two values are: listening and placing value on fan/community feedback AND treating their development teams and their products as "artist" and "art". That's not the precise phrasing Bioware might use, but that's what the conflict boils down to. This is not to say that art cannot be changed: it can, but art is always changed BY THE ARTIST. The artist might do so in reaction to consumer response or simply because they don't like their own work, but it is their perogative to make any and all changes. Bioware is trying to walk a line between this value and "listening and responding to feedback" - which explains their lack of apology and vague language a lot better than "they are horrible and greedy and don't care".

They obviously care, but they also seem to care about how their artists/developers are treated internally. This is another reason why what I've been saying about it not being "us vs. Bioware" is important - we're not fighting the company, we are trying to bring them around to our way of thinking. Doing this will be much more effective at getting the kind of response we are looking for than calling Bioware's spokespersons "liars" and being paranoid about "PR spin".


They have made it very clear that they will not come around to our way of thinking.
After 2 weeks of lots of people rationally explaining why the whole "artistic integrity" argument is void, they still go with it. They also dropped obvious hints signifying their view of us as a "vocal minority". And, from the statements of the DR. and Mr. Hudson, we can safely infer that they either did not understand the issues we have with the endings or, given that they were voiced clearly enough a dozen and more times, have chosen to ignore them for the sake of their own interpretation.
Much of their statements sound irritatingly similar to what one can hear from any politician when asked for a straight answer.
Plus, they sold their values when they went under EA's wing. Since then, their games have become progressively weaker.

I am sorry, really, but their recent moves have made it very clear that we, as customers, hold little value for BW anymore (that EA does not give jack is well-known, look at their track record). Instead, we are carefully fed spoonfuls of non-information and hints so vague they amount to nothing.
That is a common tactic...but used against an obvious enemy. And if that is the view BW has of us, not customers, but an enemy to be outmaneuvered and badmouthed...then I am really sorry, but this is not the company I trusted with my entertainment anymore.

#408
DreamTension

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Yokokorama wrote...

tiger-tron wrote...

Yokokorama wrote...

tiger-tron wrote...

I don't want them to "clarify" and add "closure". I just want an ending that doesn't suck. Seriously, an epilogue that simply adds a bit to the end is not what I want. It doesn't fix the major issues with the ending.


Its downloadable content.  They can add a new ending, and whoever liked the old endings can simply NOT download it.  I really don't understand why people are overcomplicating it so much.  They can add new endings without 'destroying' the old endings.

Well yeah, thats what we want. A DLC that adds a new ending. The minority that like the current ending don't have to download it.

Not sure what your point is...:S


I was just agreeing with what you said and building upon it.



I will agree with both of your agreeing.

#409
Faded-Myth

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Watch it be 20 minutes of the Stargazer standing there, explaining what happened to his grandkid. 20 minutes of Buzz Aldrin rather painfully reading from a script. Very slowly.

I love the guy as much as anyone, but good god, that dialog...

#410
The Smitchens

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DreamTension wrote...

Yokokorama wrote...

tiger-tron wrote...

Yokokorama wrote...

tiger-tron wrote...

I don't want them to "clarify" and add "closure". I just want an ending that doesn't suck. Seriously, an epilogue that simply adds a bit to the end is not what I want. It doesn't fix the major issues with the ending.


Its downloadable content.  They can add a new ending, and whoever liked the old endings can simply NOT download it.  I really don't understand why people are overcomplicating it so much.  They can add new endings without 'destroying' the old endings.

Well yeah, thats what we want. A DLC that adds a new ending. The minority that like the current ending don't have to download it.

Not sure what your point is...:S


I was just agreeing with what you said and building upon it.



I will agree with both of your agreeing.


I agree.

#411
Cgrissom

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 Wonderful, clarity and closure.

But we still get Space Magic and an inability to look for alternatives to ****ing the Galaxy. Just wonderful.

:(

#412
The Smitchens

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Cgrissom wrote...

 Wonderful, clarity and closure.

But we still get Space Magic and an inability to look for alternatives to ****ing the Galaxy. Just wonderful.

:(


I don't see how those two sentences work together.  Isn't the clarity and closure supposed to do something about the space magic?

#413
Cgrissom

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The Smitchens wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

 Wonderful, clarity and closure.

But we still get Space Magic and an inability to look for alternatives to ****ing the Galaxy. Just wonderful.

:(


I don't see how those two sentences work together.  Isn't the clarity and closure supposed to do something about the space magic?


My suspicion is that the clarity is for the effects of our choice. Not how the Space Magic works. 

#414
legionaireshen

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starchild, color picking, normandy crash
no matter how they "clarify" the ending, it still suck

#415
The Smitchens

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Cgrissom wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

 Wonderful, clarity and closure.

But we still get Space Magic and an inability to look for alternatives to ****ing the Galaxy. Just wonderful.

:(


I don't see how those two sentences work together.  Isn't the clarity and closure supposed to do something about the space magic?


My suspicion is that the clarity is for the effects of our choice. Not how the Space Magic works. 


Well.  Now you're just presuming to have a prerequisite
understanding as to how they're going to apply said clarity and
closure.  It's a bit preemptive to say we're stuck with the space magic
in that case.

#416
Aurellia

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Cgrissom wrote...

 Wonderful, clarity and closure.

But we still get Space Magic and an inability to look for alternatives to ****ing the Galaxy. Just wonderful.

:(


This is called polishing a turd rather than making something that doesn't stink.

#417
BunnyisCthulhu

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I'm starting to think that this is a PR way of dividing the movement. Get them fighting amongst themselves about what they actually want and weaken them that way.

#418
CronoDragoon

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The Smitchens wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

 Wonderful, clarity and closure.

But we still get Space Magic and an inability to look for alternatives to ****ing the Galaxy. Just wonderful.

:(


I don't see how those two sentences work together.  Isn't the clarity and closure supposed to do something about the space magic?


My suspicion is that the clarity is for the effects of our choice. Not how the Space Magic works. 


Well.  Now you're just presuming to have a prerequisite
understanding as to how they're going to apply said clarity and
closure.  It's a bit preemptive to say we're stuck with the space magic
in that case.


Is there anything they can clarify to keep synthesis from being space magic?

#419
Cgrissom

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The Smitchens wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

 Wonderful, clarity and closure.

But we still get Space Magic and an inability to look for alternatives to ****ing the Galaxy. Just wonderful.

:(


I don't see how those two sentences work together.  Isn't the clarity and closure supposed to do something about the space magic?


My suspicion is that the clarity is for the effects of our choice. Not how the Space Magic works. 


Well.  Now you're just presuming to have a prerequisite
understanding as to how they're going to apply said clarity and
closure.  It's a bit preemptive to say we're stuck with the space magic
in that case.


I read that the clarity and closure was going to be added on at the end.  Which would leave it very unlikely that we can get an explanation as to how Space Magic works. 

#420
Tsantilas

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Taking bets on who thinks indoctrination theory will end up being canon.

#421
The Smitchens

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Legionaire-Shen wrote...

starchild, color picking, normandy crash
no matter how they "clarify" the ending, it still suck


Side note:  Despite the fact that I'm quoting you I am not singling you out.  You're just the first example I have off hand.

Am I really the only one that thinks this is a glimmering beacon of hope?  The only reason Bioware made an announcement was because of us.  If we never started speaking up to begin with they wouldn't have even thought twice about the ending (presumably).  Or if they had they might have pushed forward in a different direction.  As it is now we've all been as vocal as possible.  We've gotten a reaction and they're doing something because of us as a whole.

There is no elbow room to second guess.  The best thing we can do is keep giving them feedback as to what we all want.  Ultimately they'll go where the masses go.  But we have to be professional and actually contribute to it.  The fact we've been addressed a few times this week is proof they're listening and taking us into account.  What gets us results is suggestions.  Plans.  Ideas.

#422
StarGateGod

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Tsantilas wrote...

Taking bets on who thinks indoctrination theory will end up being canon.

pretty sure that would invove changing the ending which the weet says they arnt doing. I would like it to be indoc, id even take as someone ese has said that everything after Harby's beam was a dream to shepards mind in order to pass on, id take that ending over the one given
and the crazy stargazeer 10k years into the future

#423
The Smitchens

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Cgrissom wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

 Wonderful, clarity and closure.

But we still get Space Magic and an inability to look for alternatives to ****ing the Galaxy. Just wonderful.

:(


I don't see how those two sentences work together.  Isn't the clarity and closure supposed to do something about the space magic?


My suspicion is that the clarity is for the effects of our choice. Not how the Space Magic works. 


Well.  Now you're just presuming to have a prerequisite
understanding as to how they're going to apply said clarity and
closure.  It's a bit preemptive to say we're stuck with the space magic
in that case.


I read that the clarity and closure was going to be added on at the end.  Which would leave it very unlikely that we can get an explanation as to how Space Magic works. 


The only verification we've gotten that they're doing is a passive tweet.  All it said that we can solidly take is that something is coming regarding the ending.  What it ends up being can either turn into a disaster or it can turn into the greatest thing since sliced bread.  We all have a much greater role in that already.  The fact that they've said they're doing this for us alone says that.  If we tell them what we want they'll produce it.

#424
Cgrissom

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The Smitchens wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

The Smitchens wrote...

Cgrissom wrote...

 Wonderful, clarity and closure.

But we still get Space Magic and an inability to look for alternatives to ****ing the Galaxy. Just wonderful.

:(


I don't see how those two sentences work together.  Isn't the clarity and closure supposed to do something about the space magic?


My suspicion is that the clarity is for the effects of our choice. Not how the Space Magic works. 


Well.  Now you're just presuming to have a prerequisite
understanding as to how they're going to apply said clarity and
closure.  It's a bit preemptive to say we're stuck with the space magic
in that case.


I read that the clarity and closure was going to be added on at the end.  Which would leave it very unlikely that we can get an explanation as to how Space Magic works. 


The only verification we've gotten that they're doing is a passive tweet.  All it said that we can solidly take is that something is coming regarding the ending.  What it ends up being can either turn into a disaster or it can turn into the greatest thing since sliced bread.  We all have a much greater role in that already.  The fact that they've said they're doing this for us alone says that.  If we tell them what we want they'll produce it.


This is true. I just tend to be a natural pessimist. I'm truly hoping this turns out well. Until then I think I will adopt a position of nuetrality. And attempt to to have no opinion either way.

#425
Porfirmir

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To me, the only satisfactory tweet would read: "We are looking into adding content that is significantly divergent from what is currently in place due to overwhelming fan response. Thank you for your continued support."