649 réponses à ce sujet

[D1ck1e]

I'm open minded about it. We'll see.

I don't think adding content that adresses clarity and closure is enough for me, unless it also adresses what their next step is for the future, and clearly. That's about the only way I'll give up trying to make sense of all those plot holes.

[Wattoes]

I was afraid this was going to happen. Looks like were stuck with godchild and spacemagic.

There goes a franchise down the tube.

[bti79]

HenchxNarf wrote...


So here, let me re-word it.

There is a majority of the movement that will not be happy no matter what BioWare chooses to do (which in this case is not to change the endings, just clarif) and I have seen, in this thread alone, that no matter what BioWare gives them, they won't be happy with what they're given. They want more, or something that isn't even on the table as an option.

1) Multiple endings that take into account the choices made thoughout the game(s) - could be as simple as a couple of cutscenes.
2) Options for a brighter ending. Shepard lives - so does his/her LI and friends. The galaxy doesn't get destroyed. More or less selfexplainatory.
3) Fix the plotholes.

Its very very simple. Why wouldn't this be an option? Surely with all the PR this has generated there are good DLC  money to be made here.

[Sc2mashimaro]

GorrilaKing wrote...

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

This is one thing that Bioware's PR has not done as good of a job conveying as they really need to: the reason Bioware is not saying "I'm sorry, we screwed up" and just making an entirely new ending is because this issue causes a conflict with two of their core values as a company. This did not become clear to me until Dr. Muzyka's letter came close to spelling it out (which they SHOULD do, so fans understand what is going on). These two values are: listening and placing value on fan/community feedback AND treating their development teams and their products as "artist" and "art". That's not the precise phrasing Bioware might use, but that's what the conflict boils down to. This is not to say that art cannot be changed: it can, but art is always changed BY THE ARTIST. The artist might do so in reaction to consumer response or simply because they don't like their own work, but it is their perogative to make any and all changes. Bioware is trying to walk a line between this value and "listening and responding to feedback" - which explains their lack of apology and vague language a lot better than "they are horrible and greedy and don't care".

They obviously care, but they also seem to care about how their artists/developers are treated internally. This is another reason why what I've been saying about it not being "us vs. Bioware" is important - we're not fighting the company, we are trying to bring them around to our way of thinking. Doing this will be much more effective at getting the kind of response we are looking for than calling Bioware's spokespersons "liars" and being paranoid about "PR spin".

They have made it very clear that they will not come around to our way of thinking.
After 2 weeks of lots of people rationally explaining why the whole "artistic integrity" argument is void, they still go with it. They also dropped obvious hints signifying their view of us as a "vocal minority". And, from the statements of the DR. and Mr. Hudson, we can safely infer that they either did not understand the issues we have with the endings or, given that they were voiced clearly enough a dozen and more times, have chosen to ignore them for the sake of their own interpretation.
Much of their statements sound irritatingly similar to what one can hear from any politician when asked for a straight answer.
Plus, they sold their values when they went under EA's wing. Since then, their games have become progressively weaker.

I am sorry, really, but their recent moves have made it very clear that we, as customers, hold little value for BW anymore (that EA does not give jack is well-known, look at their track record). Instead, we are carefully fed spoonfuls of non-information and hints so vague they amount to nothing.
That is a common tactic...but used against an obvious enemy. And if that is the view BW has of us, not customers, but an enemy to be outmaneuvered and badmouthed...then I am really sorry, but this is not the company I trusted with my entertainment anymore.

I think that is a very cynical way to look at it. They've come a long way towards our way of thinking in the past couple of weeks and there is no reason to give up trying to move them a little further in that direction. Yes, the statement is vague, but that most likely indicates that they have not settled on a single plan of action yet. The Bioware executives have essentially said that they still run Bioware their own way and that EA has mostly stayed out of the way.

What you are seeing as "selling out their values" are the problems a company encounters when it grows much too fast. Bioware hasn't "sold out", they just can't keep up with their own growth (and SHOULD slow down to let their corporate culture catch up to their size). What they've given us is NOT non-information, they've actually given us very specific insight in to the way they are approaching and thinking about the problem.

The people on this forum have a very narrow and uninformed view of what PR does - Atghunger (sp?) espouses a single perspective on the subject and while his view is valid, it is mostly from the Critical Theorist school of thought, which is only ONE perspective on the subject (and a generally cynical approach to it). Again, it is a valid approach, but far from the only one. I tend to approach it from a Structration and Agency perspective mixed with a generalized Organizational Communication approach and some libertarian theory, which is just as vaild as Critical Theory and one that, I feel, gives us a more positive and active role in influencing the outcome of a given conflict of interest. It's also a perspective that realizes that being overly cynical will not help us get the outcome we want or encourage Bioware to continue to emphasize the importance of fan feedback.

Attitude matters and PR is not a mystery spin machine, it is a company's way of communicating their current thought process and perspective on an issue. It is strategic communication, but that doesn't mean manipulative, it means that the company is getting behind a single message to eliminate confusion. When done well, PR benefits both the company and the consumer. When done poorly, both the company and the consumer suffer. If you really believe that Bioware is engaging in unethical PR (lying) then why stay and petition for a different ending anyway? I would never deal with a company that I believed was doing that and I don't think that is what Bioware is doing.

[Sawtooth357]

It doesn't make much sense to just clarify the star child. Most of the people who hate the ending equally hate the star child as the worst part of it, so just expanding his idea won't satisfy them. And those who think the ending is fine will be upset that Bioware changed anything. Seems like something you'd want to go all-out or not at all with.

[Pkxm]

"It will not be a new version. We are releasing new, additional content."

It sounds like they are not going to change the endings. I don't understand why people insist Bioware has to remove the current endings and replace them with different ones. There are multiple things they could do even if they didn't go with the indoctrination theory.

[Irrelevant SN]

(sorry, continued)

handling have left a bad taste in my mouth. I may swear off EA/Bioware, I may not. But running rough shot with my money and consumer trust, tearing me down with dlcs that are planned pre game and making me pay more instead of including them, ya know, free at lauch?

Abuse your fans too much, and you won't have fans for long.

P.S. This announcement better not be a damn graphic novel or just a crappy tagged on epilouge. That end was not what your team promised, and nothing short of that promise will suffice.

[Icesong]

Well, all I initially wanted was some more closure but then as time went on and I thought about it more I realized the ending was much worse than I first realized. But if they can give me the closure I want I'll take it and run. I swear, if they end my Shepard's story with a half-breath in a place and circumstances unknown, it'll be worse than how Revan was ruined.

Modifié par Icesong, 23 mars 2012 - 11:02 .

[ArenCordial]

FemmeShep wrote...


Of course. I don't think anyone ever thought everyone wanted the same thing.

But the majority did take an issue with the ending choices not really reflecting your choices throughout the entire seires. And I don't think that will be addressed in this DLC. 

This.  If all they are going to do is have something where Hackett orders a retreat to explain Joker's cowardice and the Cataylst arguing that eventually the Geth will turn on everyone etc.....well then Bioware will have failed to understand the backlash/movement.

Modifié par ArenCordial, 23 mars 2012 - 10:58 .

[FemmeShep]

For the record, I'm not against this. I just personally wanted something else. But I think I'm at that stage of acceptance. It is what it is.

Just a shame that one of my favorite stories of all time had what in my view, was a really poor ending that wasn't just a bad ending, but redefined most of the past plot. But it is what it is. I think, fans have to decide for themselves if they want to spend money again on another BioWare product. Ignoring the outcry and protests aside, this is apart of how markets work. It would be no different than you deciding to no longer go see a certain directors movies, because you've felt his past work was poor. 

You as an individual, need to decide what you are going to spend your money on. 

Modifié par FemmeShep, 23 mars 2012 - 11:01 .

[krogstor]

They can explain it all they want, it still doesn't change the fact that the endings are the same 3 videos with different colors and slightly different renderings.

[RadiantLegend]

Can't wait to see how they intend on clarifying the ending.

[Yearlongjester]

To me it sounds like pacification. Let's throw out some vaguely hopeful words so they'll stop complaining about our game. We need people to buy this ****.

[RedMike512]

Ugh. This is not what we want.

Hold the line.

[XqctaX]

Dridengx wrote...

XqctaX wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

ctdmz wrote...

This has the potential to do more damage than if they had done nothing at all. If they offer up something that falls short of what the fans have been asking for the blow-back is going to be insane.

Which in turn proves that nothing will make them happy.

Which also will make BioWare not want to do anything else "for the fans"

trolling is trolling.������������������������

read my sig thanks

i dont care about your sig!
but i do think stating ouragous opions in generalising terms as
fact for no other reason than to argue to be trolling.
there is no reason for a ME3 gamer to oppose a better ending.
other than to refuse others to be happy.
and if you dont like it when i call it as i see it to bad for you.<3$dictionary 2i ;j

[antony1197]

Pairikas wrote...

robbyiscool wrote...

"We are creating new content to clarify and add closure as per the request of many loyal fans! That's all"


I'm fairly certain thats not what we've been requesting.  Am I just mistaken and dissatisfied, or are they really just not listening correctly?

When I'm asking if they CHANGE or ADD something on that Tweet... no answer. As always.

I know how you feel i asked pretty much the same thing, no answer. Then i said i loved the game and guess what? Instant answer

[MandatoryDenial1]

JohnnyG wrote...

Sigh. I think this might be a case of them hearing what they want to hear.

I am afraid your right, but I am going to reserve judgement until I know more from them.

[Offender_Mullet]

Um.....didn't you retake people want clarification and closure?

How many thousands of post asked the following?

"The ending doesn't make sense. Oh mah gawd help us!" = Clarification

"Like zomg what happenz to ur squadmates?" = Closure

The answer is: A LOT. So what else am I missing here? Do you need your rear ends wiped to?

Modifié par Offender_Mullet, 23 mars 2012 - 11:07 .

[havoc373]

we got what we wanted. and you people are still whining and moaning...
i'm done with this so called fanbase. good luck.

[savionen]

Offender_Mullet wrote...

Um.....didn't you retake people want clarification and closure?

How many thousands of post asked the following?

"The ending doesn't make sense. Oh mah gawd help us!" = Clarification

"Like zomg what happenz to ur squadmates?" = Closure

The answer is: A LOT. So what else am I missing here? Do you need your rear ends wiped to?

Honestly, I'm not sure any amount of "clarification" is going to fix the ending. It'll be interesting to see how they try and fill all the plot holes, though.

[krogstor]

Offender_Mullet wrote...

Um.....didn't you retake people want clarification and closure?

How many thousands of post asked the following?

"The ending doesn't make sense. Oh mah gawd help us!" = Clarification

"Like zomg what happenz to ur squadmates?" = Closure

The answer is: A LOT. So what else am I missing here? Do you need your rear ends wiped to?

krogstor wrote...

They can explain it all they want, it still doesn't change the fact that the endings are the same 3 videos
with different colors and slightly different renderings.

Modifié par krogstor, 23 mars 2012 - 11:09 .

[XqctaX]

HenchxNarf wrote...

savionen wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

So here, let me re-word it.

There is a majority of the movement that will not be happy no matter what BioWare chooses to do (which in this case is not to change the endings, just clarif) and I have seen, in this thread alone, that no matter what BioWare gives them, they won't be happy with what they're given. They want more, or something that isn't even on the table as an option.

They just want what Bioware said the game would have. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

In their opinion, they didn't get what Bioware said they would.

Some people think they did. It's their opinion.

the promises made by bioware are proven without any doubt and beyond reson to be FACTS
its not about opinion. to make such a claim is to blatantly LIE or not know what one is talking about....

which are you?table as an option.

[Theb82]

Any developer that offers DLC should offer the ability to correct mistakes and we shouldnt be thanking them for this. If anything they should thank us as we have given feedback to make their product better.

If its free then its a start at least but it all depends how they deliver this content. If I have to pay £10 for "recapture Omega" which includes a minute of cut scenes at the end then I will just youtube it and move on.

[Lankist]

CavScout wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Lankist wrote...

No amount of clarity is going to make space child any more tolerable. None.

This.
I don't want clarification on this nihilistic, torturous ending.
I don't want pithy explanations for why Shepard is a quitter and why Joker is a coward.
I want new endings, not this dark age garbage they forced down our throats.

READ: No matter what you do, unless it is specifically tailored to my own wants and needs, I will still be angry!

Sorry, but I don't give people $60 to do whatever the hell they feel like doing. When I order a steak medium rare and the waiter comes back with a piece of bark, I don't sit there contemplating what the chef wanted to do.

Modifié par Lankist, 23 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[krogstor]

Lankist wrote...

Sorry, but I don't give people $60 to do whatever the hell they feel like doing. When I order a steak medium rare and the waiter comes back with a piece of bark, I don't sit there contemplating what the chef wanted to do.

This  ^^^