504 réponses à ce sujet

[Thy_BZBY]

Okay as per the part of "artistic integrity"...this ladies and gents has a lot of foot hold in this situation but at the same time it does not! Now art is constantly evolving and changing with the times. What is considered art nowadays wasn’t considered art way back when (remember that). What BW did with ME was unprecedented revolutionary to the gaming industry at the time. But by going the choice route they opened a Pandora’s Box scenario. One that they are attempting to close with their “ending”, yes we know that this was to be Shepard’s trilogy but to end it on a philosophical artsy ending is just unfulfilling to say the least. What most of the fan base wants is “closure” it’s that simple. Not more questions and “speculation” I understand where you would be coming from if this was a linear story line where we the fans weren’t given “choice” in the matter. That linear story with this ending would make sense because the story is linear.

Take the “Matrix” style ending (philosophical) ok a lot of people either liked it or they didn’t but hey guess what that was Neo’s story one that we had no say in what so ever. But ME is something totally different we as fans actually had a choice how the characters and world reacted to “your” Shepard, who lived and who died etc… So trying to fall back on the old “status quo” of the whole “artistic integrity” precedence has merit but not a lot in this discussion. You cannot create a new art form with new rules and groundbreaking precedence without realizing that with that comes new ways of dealing with that. You cannot create something new just to fall back on what was?!?
Also what harm would a happy ending do? Or an actually fulfilling ending do? If I want philosophical artsy gloomy ending in my life I’ll just turn on the news or deal with my life for that matter. I play video games, watch movies, read books to escape that if not for a little bit.

Bottom line what you have here BW is a product, like that or not. Consumers have the right to say that your product is faulty or not. But how you head this out cry totally depends on how you handle it. I for one am holding onto my collection of the Mass Effect Trilogy. Just to see how you handle this from here on out, so you may or may not have a loyal Bioware fan is to be seen. Here’s to my deranged skeptical hope for you guys to fix this, actually fix this not just put a “band aid on a broken neck.”

[yahtzo]

Just run with indoctrination theory, make some great DLC and have people worshiping Bioware again.

I think adding some text or putting in the deleted scenes to try and explain the current endings would only enrage the fans even more.

All this art BS arguments aside, what is more important; pissing off a nice portion of your fan base and thus losing future DLC sales but you get to keep your "pride" and a few gaming web sites who won't buy your DLC will "respect" you, or admitting you screwed up and give the fans what they want and make more money in the process.

[SilentWolfie]

I have added on a solution that may or may not solve multiple users discontent with the game. Do you think it will work if 3 seperate DLCs come out?

[Namz89]

Bioware just doesn't get it.

I'll say one thing first - I'm happy for all people who could enjoy the ending(s) as they were - really.
But as I am tolerant about your decisions - I expect from you the same in return - it's give and take people.
Most people would accept that the current endings stay in the game, as long as there are other, vastly different endings to achieve too.

Alright, now what I wanted to get off of my chest (again).

Why does Bioware want to explain the endings to the people who are completely against the endings, in every possible, thinkable way. We explained thousand times why those endings are not acceptable and why we want better ones.

Here an example of how ...stupid the idea of releasing such a DLC is:
When I'm buying a car, because the brochure promised me a big family car, with lots of space and many different options to rearrange the interior. Also I can pick many options for what my car should have.
So the car gets delivered and guess what, it's a compact class car, with room for barely 3 people and the only thing I can rearrange in that car is the mirror. Additionally many if not all of the options I picked when I ordered it were just ignored or aren't even in that car (because it's not a family car and the choices didn't matter) Think carefully. Do I want a "deluxe" edition of that car, with some added extras? Would I want a CD radio in there? Is the fact that they would put in an AC device any good on my problem? Does the addition of spoilers and rims make the car any more useful to me?

NO! I want them to take the joke of a car back and get me the car I expected them to make: The car that was promised to me through so many sources.

And it's really the same with the ending(s) of ME3 and the upcoming DLC.

EDIT: Oh, right, I forgot - Of course there are people who like the car as it was delivered. Would they pay more for the extras they offer? No, because they already got what they wanted.

Modifié par Namz89, 24 mars 2012 - 01:28 .

[Estelindis]

I don't think that any "clarification" could improve the ending as currently written. We are crystal-clear about what happened and we know that it didn't make sense. In order for things to make sense, events would have had to play out differently - or at least have the chance to do so.

[Typhoniel]

I want a completely new ending starting with background music in London, less "shepard thank you for the good time, good bye" more "let's save the galaxy, we are heroes!" going on with more allied troops on the ground giving the feeling of a battlefield and then I want to win this war with some epic reaperslashinglaser....

I don't want to see that starchild ever again. It ruins everything.

If BioWare just adds an investigate option for starchild and a I refuse chosing a color to destroy everything and just sit here in space with my space magic air that I can breath and watch which side wins ending. I will be not amused ans if they try to milk the desperate community by making us pay for the ending we deserve and were promised I will not buy it and will never support that company again.

Hold the Line.

Modifié par Typhoniel, 24 mars 2012 - 02:46 .

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Yes thank you. it's the out come of the endings we have now that I find don't reflect my choices,why would I want longer versions of those same endings that ruined the series for me?

I will hold the line until we get new endings and I will not download longer versions even if they are free.

Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10317489/1

Thank you for your time.

[ChuckieJ]

Really, if you guys would watch the Indoctrination video on Youtube () I think you will be convinced as I am that, not only is it true but it is awesome. The only problem is that there is clearly a missing scene after Shep defeats the Reapers in his mind. I think it should have been after the man tells the child "one more story". We want to see the hero moment!

A hallucination is kind of the wrong word, it's attempted mind control/brainwashing. Indoctrination really is the most appropriate word actually.

It boils down to this: the ending seems wrong/bad and to not fit with the story and your experiences ON PURPOSE. You are supposed to be thinking exactly what you guys are thinking.

1) This is not my Shep!
2) Why trust this ethereal child?
3) Why are these my only choices?
4) This does not reflect the choices I made in the game!
5) Where's my glorious (whether sad or not) hero's ending?

It's not artistic that it is sad and/or weird. It's artistic that we are left to discover the truth in a meta-analysis and that there were hints to the truth the whole time.

A few of them:
1) The little boy is never seen by anyone other than Shep.
2) Those who have been through part of indoctrination report "dreams". The Rachnii report oily ghosts in the dreams.
3) After Shep is hit by the Reaper beam and wakes up, there are objects such as bushes from his dream appearing near the transport beam that were not there before.
4) It is not possible to control Reapers via any known method. TIM clearly failed. The ethereal child is lying to you
5) Synthesis is downright unfair to the organics. It is also what Saren was supposedly trying to accomplish while indoctrinated.
6) Destruction is the only option left. We have no reason to trust the Child that it will also destroy the geth. Destruction is the equivalent of the Exit Button you might see in various sci-fi descriptions of brainwashing or virtual worlds. There has to be (or at least should be) an exit but the Reapers do not want you to choose it (obviously).

R,G,B are not the endings!

Modifié par ChuckieJ, 24 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[DemGeth]

So all I heard from Hold the Line was no...we don't want a happy ending, we just want closure.



Yeaaaa

[Gexora]

Kungfu Nando wrote...

captainbob8383 wrote...

Destruction is actually the 'less bad' of the three options. But still, Sheppard genocide all synthetic lifes, even tho he just saved the geths and knows they are not hostile…

TBF as a Renegade this choice or ending actually is not that bad, it play along with their win at all costs, ends justify the means way of thinking. Yeah the galaxy is screwed but I WIN REAPER SUCK ON IT!  All the renegade convo options also state that shepard doesn't consider EDI or even Legion to be alive, just a machine with powerful resources he needed. Tragically for me, I played a rushed (key word here) renegade femshep and didn't fully grasp the endings were the same, it was only when I tried the other choices the game was ruined for me...

which means you don't understand what renegade is and basically just chose the "biggest jerk" options all the time

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

All we are asking for are choices that we were told would be in the game we bought and we are willing to pay extra for them. How could Bioware or Ea have a problem with that?

Please check out this group and join in.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10317489/1

Thank you for your time.

[Ender99]

Terminus Echoes wrote...

Iwillbeback wrote...

They don't seem to get the problem with the ending.

This.

They say they're listening... BS.

+1

[Mr Indivisible]

They are hanging their hat on 'people liked the ending' they will find out when we all don't buy their games anymore how wrong they were.

Goodbye Bioware.

[Tom Jolly]

Not me... I want the existing ending to stay. I hope dlc clarifys some of it but not necessarily directly

[CronoDragoon]

DemGeth wrote...

So all I heard from Hold the Line was no...we don't want a happy ending, we just want closure.



Yeaaaa

If that's all you heard, you really didn't read many threads.

[shamE12]

It will be a mess..... c u @ PAX

[DemGeth]

CronoDragoon wrote...

DemGeth wrote...

So all I heard from Hold the Line was no...we don't want a happy ending, we just want closure.



Yeaaaa

If that's all you heard, you really didn't read many threads.

No....when I'd asked if they wanted a happy ending I was told it wasn't about that, what they wanted was a coherent ending.  

[TurboQuarian]

Might as well talk to a wall...

[cinderburster]

Sparse wrote...

They were never going to totally remake a chunk of the game. So long as what they come up with isn't another 'lots of speculation' effort it will be a dramatic improvement.

[Turtles_AWD]

I went to sleep when the forums went down so I'm just going to pick this up where it was left off.

ChuckieJ wrote...

I don't think we know any of the above for sure, do we? I admit I am not as steeped in the lore as some, but certainly the Codex description of the process does not say what you describe. The theory says that you are slowly being indoctrinated through most of this game. The slow version (Illusive Man) may allow people to break free at certain points. We simply don't know (as far as I know)! We are not simply a collection of particles, we have minds. Those minds can be broken through a combination of biological and psychological warfare.

Can't you imagine the Illusive Man going through something like this years ago? He chose "Control" and continued to pursue that goal through ME2 and ME3. From getting Reaper stuff implanted to wanting the Collector base intact. He continued to think he was doing what was best and that he could control the Reapers. He was wrong on both counts.

Thanoptis mentions that her first test subject for indoctrination was her predecessor at the lab on virmire. For everyone involved in Saren's research, the indoctrination process was an inevitability. Quicker indoctrination makes the brain lose its higher functioning faster, but the only character who was indoctrinated and "got better" is Shiala.

What indoctrination does is simplify the victims down to essentially an organic machine, and machines eventually wear out. To quote from the codex on the mass effect wiki

"Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher
mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering
animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days
or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for
months or years."

The degradation is bound to happen. It happens faster if the indoctrination is faster, but it can't be avoided in anyone who is indoctrinated which is probably by design of the indoctrination considering what they did to the protheans when they turned them into collectors. The reapers are more interested in tools than individuals.

The only way I can see this being avoided by the ending is if the Deus Ex Machina was supposed to be something like the Thorian, and be exerting control over Shepard in some way to break the indoctrination that's already in place.

I feel like this is most likely Bioware's original intent, as it's the only way to give any of the options in the final scene weight. If the choice is between correct and incorrect endings, it isn't really a choice at all. Even I have trouble believing that they would have gone ahead with an ending sequence that only leads to one viable conclusion.

The moment the renegades are picking an option because Artificial intelligence isn't really alive and they can be sacrificed to end the reaper threat, and the paragons are picking the same exact option because they simply don't believe that the AIs will be sacrrificed, you know something's been lost in translation.

[CronoDragoon]

DemGeth wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

DemGeth wrote...

So all I heard from Hold the Line was no...we don't want a happy ending, we just want closure.



Yeaaaa

If that's all you heard, you really didn't read many threads.

No....when I'd asked if they wanted a happy ending I was told it wasn't about that, what they wanted was a coherent ending.  

While it is clear many people did want a happy ending as well, I heard more people complaining about the lack of choice in the endings than the lack of closure. 

[mrderp27]

lol

[Namz89]

DemGeth wrote...

So all I heard from Hold the Line was no...we don't want a happy ending, we just want closure.



Yeaaaa

What we wanted was an ending, that was promised - one that reflects our choices - good or bad ones - and is effected by them, leading to multiple endings, such as happy endings, bittersweet endings AND bad endings.

[JaylaClark]

cinderburster wrote...

Sparse wrote...

They were never going to totally remake a chunk of the game. So long as what they come up with isn't another 'lots of speculation' effort it will be a dramatic improvement.

This is probably extremely true, at least for short term solutions, getting clarification is what we're likely to get. Anything else will take far too long to do to save DLC sales.

And as long as clarification is free, that's okay with me. But it has to be total clarification. Anything that's not explainable has to be rewritten to be justifiable, or taken out. If we get the actual 'sweet' to the ending and the actual 'ending' to the ending... it's at the very least a start. And with a few tweaks to the plot and a few explanations to the epilogue that I've read on TvTropes, or other places on the forums, I'd be satisfied.

If there's a demand for more, though, and I think there probably is, I'll do my part by reasonably noting that people would really like more options on Twitter, writing alt-uni fics, that kind of thing. Don't worry. Even if I feel I can stop holding the line, I'll still fight for the lost. (I'm officially nominating that to be the next catchphrase if Hold The Line Stage 1 has my predicted level of success.)

[DemGeth]

Namz89 wrote...

DemGeth wrote...

So all I heard from Hold the Line was no...we don't want a happy ending, we just want closure.



Yeaaaa

What we wanted was an ending, that was promised - one that reflects our choices - good or bad ones - and is effected by them, leading to multiple endings, such as happy endings, bittersweet endings AND bad endings.

Meh, the biggest complaint I heard.....and even looking back through the 2k page thread....is that the ending didn't make sense.

You can look thru it if you like and if you disagree that's fine.