504 réponses à ce sujet

[durasteel]

@OP:  Preach it, Brother.

Modifié par durasteel, 23 mars 2012 - 06:17 .

[Tyrzun]

SilentWolfie wrote...

Twitter
@masseffect
"We are creating new content to clarify and add closure as per the request of many loyal fans! That's all."







Do we speak Alien? Are we not clear enough as Legion?

We want a new ENDING NOT SOME CLARIFICATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/Rant.








PS: Since so many people wants to know how many are "we want a new ending", I have a small poll selection.

http://social.biowar...36/polls/30267/

No change to current ending, simply extend: 38 votes (14%)
Adds on indoctrination theory                       : 116 votes (43%)
New ending, without godchild, indoctrination: 114 votes (43%)




http://news.cnet.com...fect-3s-ending/

9400 votes as of this writing.

83 %  -    Yes. The ending is unacceptable.
4 %    -    No. It's just fine as is.
8%     -    Only if it's a brighter ending. The current options are too bleak.
3%     -    It's too late. I won't be able to accept a different ending
2%     -    Others.

No we do not want a DIFFERENT endings.  WE NEVER EVER said that.  You are and you don't speak for the Retake movement.  Most of the movement I know GETS the ending.

We want a "new" ending.  The ending as it is, is incomplete but it's still brilliant.  Getting players to blindly follow Harbinger and indoctrinate themselves after they warn you for 3 games not to believe them is just awesome.   That's all that poll shows.

We have to finish the fight where we wake up back in London while all you indoctrinated people are dead.  You have to replay the game.  Just as if you made poor decisions in ME2 and got you and yourself killed.  We have to actually get into the Citadel now and fight for it.  Then we get our many diffeernt ending choices.

Modifié par Tyrzun, 23 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[Tovanus]

Hudathan wrote...

Tovanus wrote...

The ending currently in the game lacks artistic integrity. The REAL meaning of artistic integrity that is: an author showing integrity to the plot and world they've devised. Deus ex machina devices are the embodiment of abandoning artistic integrity. If they keep the ending we've seen as something to accept at face value, and just want to "clarify" it, it will be disappointing.

If you actually believe that then you might as well ask them to make a whole different game. The entire game was about the Crucible and they set it up as the plot device everything else was going to revove around very early in the story. It was neither sudden nor a surprise by the end. But of course people just like using that word.

I've seen this discussion before. If you can't admit it was a deus ex machina, you are blind.

A) We're not talking about a stand-alone game. We're talking about a trilogy. There was never any indication that the Crucible or Catalyst existed in the prior games (the Catalyst is particularly bad though because the Citadel has been around as a major plot point since ME 1, its revelation as a "mass relay" was key in ME 1, and the idea that it is "part" of a god-creature was NEVER introduced until the tail-end of ME 3).

Everyone's spider sense probably went off when the Crucible was conveniently introduced right as the Reapers invaded, despite no indication of the Crucible in either of the previous two games. That said, people were expecting the Crucible to be explained more after the start of ME 3, for people to learn more about it, for there to be a history that made sense and to understand how it could stop the Reapers. Did they introduce the name "Crucible" early on? Yes. But they left it a blank. It could have been many things, they chose to render it into a deus ex machina. Anyone with any understanding of plot devices can see that.

C) Even when the item is actually used, they STILL fail to explain how it works. They take more time to explain how ammunition with mass effect fields works, on-board microframe computers work, and how omni-tools work than they do for explaining how this device does anything. Worse, they introduce new unexplained questions (a great hallmark of deus ex machina).

The Catalyst is a true god-creature controlling the Reapers? Okay. How did prior civilizations learn about him? How did they figure out they could change his logic and "change his options" by building this device? All these races worked on it the Crucible bit by bit? Did none of them know what it did? Yet they each could add to it? And none of them could finish it? Did they all conveniently find the plans just as Reapers invaded? And the Reapers never wiped out traces of the plans over millions of years worth of cycles when they could have done so? The sad truth is that the Crucible would have made more sense if it had been a simpe Prothean discovery, like the Conduit was in ME 1.

So yes, it was a Deus Ex Machina. They introduced an utterly unexplained plot device that solved all your problems using an inscrutible set of magic beams. The fact that the Crucible appeared in the third game of the trilogy early on doesn't redeem it. All that means is that they missed an opportunity to use the rest of the third game to diffuse the danger of falling into "deus ex machina." And the fact is that if the explanation at the very end had been well thought out, obviously pre-planned, and worked with previous games, they still could have diffused people's deus ex machina complaints.

Trying to argue that the Starchild is not a deus ex machina plot device is inane.

Modifié par Tovanus, 23 mars 2012 - 06:28 .

[Kersca]

Tyrzun wrote...


No we do not want a DIFFERENT endings.  WE NEVER EVER said that.  You are and you don't speak for the Retake movement.  Most of the movement I know GETS the ending.

We want a "new" ending.  The ending as it is, is incomplete but it's still brilliant.  Getting players to blindly follow Harbinger and indoctrinate themselves after they warn you for 3 games not to believe them is just awesome.   That's all that poll shows.

We have to finish the fight where we wake up back in London while all you indoctrinated people are dead.  You have to replay the game.  Just as if you made poor decisions in ME2 and got you and yourself killed.  We have to actually get into the Citadel now and fight for it.  Then we get our many diffeernt ending choices.

Good lord that scenario is even more ridiculous than what we got in the game.

[SilentWolfie]

Tyrzun wrote...

No we do not want a DIFFERENT endings.  WE NEVER EVER said that.  You are and you don't speak for the Retake movement.  Most of the movement I know GETS the ending.

We want a "new" ending.  The ending as it is, is incomplete but it's still brilliant.  Getting players to blindly follow Harbinger and indoctrinate themselves after they warn you for 3 games not to believe them is just awesome.   That's all that poll shows.

We have to finish the fight where we wake up back in London while all you indoctrinated people are dead.  You have to replay the game.  Just as if you made poor decisions in ME2 and got you and yourself killed.  We have to actually get into the Citadel now and fight for it.  Then we get our many diffeernt ending choices.

WHOA. Perhaps I don't speak for Retake movement, but I am very certain the majority's sentiment is to have a new ending, that perhaps encompasses decisions and different choices. If you think for one moment that "we" will accept Shephard causing mass genocide with 3 different colors with extra clarification and closure, you are dead wrong. "We" want more decisions and more choices, just like what you wrote. Goodness, you completely misinterpreted what I wrote.

Modifié par SilentWolfie, 23 mars 2012 - 06:31 .

[Vox Draco]

For me the only satisfying conclusion would be to add to the current ending, based upon the Indy-Theory or Hallucination. This way the current ending can remain (for those elite enough to see how "awesomely artistic" they are) and the vast majoity of Fans might get a real Ending, full with a videogamey-bossfight, several endings and epilogues etc...

Quite a lot I am asking for? You bet! But I don't care, I have made up my mind. If this isn't what we're going to see in April (and if it wasn't planned from a long start before the launch of the game, it is fairly unrealistic to expect this), well then ME has died for me, the same senseless way Shepard did...

But I can already make up some possible clarification for you, if you like:

You chose "Control", Textbox pops up:

"Congratulations, you did the right thing! Shepard now controls the reapers in some very, very high-minded way uncomprehensible for you simple videogamey-mind! But the galaxy is at peace now, everything is alright. Oh, and of course the Portals won't EX-plode, they IM-plode, so everything is good here, too. No total annihilation of star-systems. We thought this was clear. And now, watch how Joker races to Earth, picks up all your sqaudmates and rushes to safety! That cool planet is very far away and totally nice to live in. He even becomes the founder of a new civilization, and you might meet them with your new most-beloved Space-hero when ME4 comes out! Oh, and of course, even though the ME-Portals are gone the fleet in Earth-Orbit is alright. It got teleported away, each race to their homeworld. The Star Child did this. You see, here is another cutscene to clarify this! Cool, isnt' it? Now could we all forget this, and you buy the new "Aria as naked squadmate-DLC? Please?"

[AlcyoneNoth]

It's ridiculous how Bioware are treating us as if we don't understand the ending

I swear, if all they end up doing is adding some condescending dialogue that explains the current ending as if they're talking to a child who simply doesn't understand, I'm going to be even more mad with them than I am now.

[Malevolence65]

daftPirate wrote...
In fact most of the Retake/Line Holding people are saying just the opposite, they don't want a new ending, they want additional endings/closure/clarification.

wrong

[gmboy902]

I dunno. While I do want a new ending, I would be able to resume Mass Effect 3 replays/buy DLC so long as we got some sort of closure regarding not only the fate of the galaxy, but also how our choices affected the ending.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like a new ending, but we can't have exactly what we want. Whether or not I continue to buy from BioWare will depend on the quality of this "closure DLC"

[Joykilledme]

Very simple I think most of us can agree we want a new ending... not further closure on the crap they gave us.

OPTIONS!!!

Happy ending as a Option
Bittersweet ending as a Option
Terrible ending as a Option!

What the bloody hell would be wrong with doing that Bioware?...

[Eterna]

Would you guys shut the hell up. If you really thought Bioware was going to rewrite the endings then that's your problem and it stems from your unrealistic expectations, be bloody happy you're getting something. This is far more than any of you deserve, you should be damn grateful.

Modifié par Eterna5, 23 mars 2012 - 06:37 .

[MadRabbit999]

I want more explanation, not a new ending... I can accept a bitter medicine, just tell me why I am taking it.

[Turtles_AWD]

Adding my voice to this thread. Hold the line.

[Hunter_Wolf]

Hudathan wrote...

You don't speak for all of us.

This. 


What you mean to say is, "I want the ending redone." 

If they do it right, which there is a lot of doubt there, they can tie it off all pretty well. But I doubt the ending of what I'd be expecting will get conveyed anywhere close to what I was expecting. After all, I figured The Arrival would feature Shepard defecting from Cerberus and uncovering a plot which would get carried over and into ME3. Didn't happen.

[Tyrzun]

SilentWolfie wrote...

Tyrzun wrote...

No we do not want a DIFFERENT endings.  WE NEVER EVER said that.  You are and you don't speak for the Retake movement.  Most of the movement I know GETS the ending.

We want a "new" ending.  The ending as it is, is incomplete but it's still brilliant.  Getting players to blindly follow Harbinger and indoctrinate themselves after they warn you for 3 games not to believe them is just awesome.   That's all that poll shows.

We have to finish the fight where we wake up back in London while all you indoctrinated people are dead.  You have to replay the game.  Just as if you made poor decisions in ME2 and got you and yourself killed.  We have to actually get into the Citadel now and fight for it.  Then we get our many diffeernt ending choices.

WHOA. Perhaps I don't speak for Retake movement, but I am very certain the majority's sentiment is to have a new ending, that perhaps encompasses decisions and different choices. If you think for one moment that "we" will accept Shephard causing mass genocide with 3 different colors with extra clarification and closure, you are dead wrong. "We" want more decisions and more choices, just like what you wrote. Goodness, you completely misinterpreted what I wrote.

Once again I'll explain the ending to you, the only ending that has NO plot holes in it.  Since you apparently can't take the time to read the hundreds of threads that explain it to you.  Apparently you miss the part how we get our choices as we finish the fight.  You're just whinning about the direction they went in now and that is wrong!

THIS is what happened, no plot holes.

Harbinger knocks you out 20 meters from the portal in your N7 armor

You wake up in your "Casual clothes".  I guess Bioware should have had a rep pop on scream and go
LOOK LOOK LOOK this is obviously not reality.  

You meet Harbinger/Star Child and tell him you know the Reapers are bad and want to destroy them.

You wake up back in London back in your N7 armor.

Obviously everything in between was not reality.  They couldn't have made that more clear without
someone on the screen popping up and telling you.

Why it isn't a dream or hallucination, because you are destroyed and you don't wake up if you go
blue or green.  

Your will is given up. ONLY if you keep true to your mission and insist the Reapers die, do you
wake up.

It's cut and dry.

Congratulation you resisted indoctrination.

There is one wrinkle that leaves room for speculation on WHY it happened, not if it happened..  

If I don't have enough EMS I don't wake up if I choose destroy.  That's because in the
"indoctrination" world they told you that you would DIE in the citadel explosion if you chose
Red.  You knew better but weren't strong enough to break out.  It took massive effort from
Benezia to break out for a minute etc...  So, Bioware tied EMS into your belief you can win.  

The reason Bioware's ending is "unique" and they are proud of it is getting people to disregard
everything they've learned about the Reapers through over 100 hours of gameplay and indoctrinate
themselves anyways.  It's freaking awesome they got people to indoctrinate themselves.  THAT has
never been done.

Note- Shep was not "slowly" indoctrinated.  TIM aka The Illusive man was, he was the "traitor"
every race has according to the Prothean AI.  However, they can do it quick in emergencies and
that's what the battle is with Harbinger.  A full out mental war.  

It is made clear that IF you loose the instant indoctrination attempt the "victim' looses all
higher mental capabilities.  AKA your mind is instantly toast.  Which is why you indoctrinated
people will NEVER wake up, your done.

Now stop being misleading and cutting out the part where I explain how Destruction is your resisting indoctrination.  When you respond.  Everyone that logically looks at it knows there are NO plotholes.  Which is why you ignored it.

Modifié par Tyrzun, 23 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[MassEffecter132]

I think this'll be the last EA/ Bioware I bought/ will be ever buy again.

[Tovanus]

Eterna5 wrote...

Would you guys shut the hell up. If you really thought Bioware was going to rewrite the endings then thta's your problem and it stems from your unrealistic expectations, by bloody happy you're getting something. This is far more than any of you deserve, you should be damn grateful.

People should push for the highest quality thing they can get. To talk about "deserving" in the way that you do betrays a fundamental lack of understanding as to the relationship between Bioware and its customers. If fans think they deserve a better ending, they should push for it. If Bioware decides they don't deserve a better ending, there's really nothing they can do about it beyond not buying their products in the future and telling friends that their money can be better spent elsewhere. As it is, I think the highest quality will involve either disowning the Starchild (via indoctrination) or flat out erasing him.

I don't think anyone really has a strong expectation of success here. But until Bioware has made their decision and announcement as to what they will put in Ending DLC, there's no reason for them not to push for the best outcome.

Modifié par Tovanus, 23 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[kofelover]

Joykilledme wrote...

Very simple I think most of us can agree we want a new ending... not further closure on the crap they gave us.

OPTIONS!!!

Happy ending as a Option
Bittersweet ending as a Option
Terrible ending as a Option!

What the bloody hell would be wrong with doing that Bioware?...

You speak for me, and it's not unreasonable in a "choice-driven" game to have "choices" at the end.

[AntiDave]

Kersca wrote...

Tyrzun wrote...


No we do not want a DIFFERENT endings.  WE NEVER EVER said that.  You are and you don't speak for the Retake movement.  Most of the movement I know GETS the ending.

We want a "new" ending.  The ending as it is, is incomplete but it's still brilliant.  Getting players to blindly follow Harbinger and indoctrinate themselves after they warn you for 3 games not to believe them is just awesome.   That's all that poll shows.

We have to finish the fight where we wake up back in London while all you indoctrinated people are dead.  You have to replay the game.  Just as if you made poor decisions in ME2 and got you and yourself killed.  We have to actually get into the Citadel now and fight for it.  Then we get our many diffeernt ending choices.

Good lord that scenario is even more ridiculous than what we got in the game.

Lol yeah, some people cling to the idea of Shepard just being indoctrinated, which of course would be a way for a new ending to work. I just want to be able to reunite Shepard and his squad and getr some kind of idea about what happened to galactic civilization after Bioware destroyed the traffic network that held this galaxy and sci-fi universe together. The idea that all of this could just be indoctrination seems meh to me.

Just some way fpor people that cannot handle the truth that Bioware poorly wrote this ending.

I just want Biopware to deliver a higher quality now. More choice about the final fate of the galaxy and Shepard couldn't hurt. Retcon the entire existing ending would of course be the most awesome thing they could do. But then this is EA and Bioware, when have they ever cared about creative quality?

Modifié par AntiDave, 23 mars 2012 - 06:45 .

[clarkusdarkus]

im amazed they thought the endings were fine in the first place, now were gonna get some crappy cgi just adding to the drama, there hearts arent into it because there being forced which is there own fault in the first place, should have told me about the A/B/C endings before release as then could have saved money and spoke to my girlfriend instead of smelling of cheese on the sofa

[Tyrzun]

kofelover wrote...

Joykilledme wrote...

Very simple I think most of us can agree we want a new ending... not further closure on the crap they gave us.

OPTIONS!!!

Happy ending as a Option
Bittersweet ending as a Option
Terrible ending as a Option!

What the bloody hell would be wrong with doing that Bioware?...

You speak for me, and it's not unreasonable in a "choice-driven" game to have "choices" at the end.

And all of us are saying we will GET our choices.  The ending is not and should not be changed. 

The battle has just begone.  WE woke up back in London and still have to go into the Citadel for real!  We still have to defeath the Reapers etc..  The only thing Bioware did is not finish the ending and the overestimated people's abilities to pay attention and understand what is going on.

[Talcon Warrior]

@Eterna5

Welcome to Consumerism, my friend. If a portion of customers are dissatisfied with a product, they can take the issues that they have to the producer. 50,000 people are vocal about the disappointment felt, and Bioware is offering to rectify only small bit of the issue (So it seems. I hope to be pleasantly surprised when they release the official product).

To say that we should be satisfied with mediocrity is to tell us that our own opinions don't matter. That this is no longer consumerism, but corporate tyranny. We are rising up to get a superior product.

[nrcrane]

I think this all could have been avoided if they just did what they said they would do and have multiple endings that were impacted by previous choices.

Don't really understand why people are fighting that idea. Is it really so bad to have the multiple endings that they said this game would have? Why are people defending Bioware for coming up short on what was expected and promised? Even if you are fine with the current ending there is no reason to be against having more.

[Eterna]

Tovanus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Would you guys shut the hell up. If you really thought Bioware was going to rewrite the endings then thta's your problem and it stems from your unrealistic expectations, by bloody happy you're getting something. This is far more than any of you deserve, you should be damn grateful.

People should push for the highest quality thing they can get. To talk about "deserving" in the way that you do betrays a fundamental lack of understanding as to the relationship between Bioware and its customers. If fans think they deserve a better ending, they should push for it. If Bioware decides they don't deserve a better ending, there's really nothing they can do about it beyond not buying their products in the future and telling friends that their money can be better spent elsewhere. As it is, I think the highest quality will involve either disowning the Starchild (via indoctrination) or flat out erasing him.

I don't think anyone really has a strong expectation of success here. But until Bioware has made their decision and announcement as to what they will put in Ending DLC, there's no reason for them not to push for the best outcome.

 Bioware will not rewrite the ending, anyone who thought that would happen is delluded.  Be happy they have listened and decided to give you closure. They didn't have to do anything.

[Carlthestrange]

Keep the original endings if they really want. I'd just like some extra options to get the different ending we requested.