504 réponses à ce sujet

[Nizzemancer]

They're listening but their universal translators all broke..

[Total Biscuit]

This is the problem with giving a one size fits all ending. There needs to be variety to satisfy the incredibly varied reasons people were playing the game, because while there are those of us who just want clarification and are happy with it as is, but just want it to actually make sense, there's also those who are completely unsatisfied by any of the results the current ending gives, and are never going to be pacified with more details for something they HATE. 

Both sides are valid, and both sides should have been catered to with multiple, distinctly different endings.

You know, WHAT WE WERE PROMISED FOR YEARS.

If they don't fix it properly for BOTH camps, they're going to be in trouble and loosing customers from one camp or the other.

I personally hope they go with a more significant change, not just explaining the pick your favourite colour endings better, because while those mostly happy with the basic thrust of the ending will be more likely to accept additional alternative endings, because they're getting more content, options and replay value, those who can't stand the ending, and won't be placated with any amount of 'clarification', will simply drop the series.

And from all the polls and discussion, the group that hates the endings and needs new options and vastly more variety (including the perfectly reasonable to expect ME1&2 style happy ending) is distincly bigger. Bioware ignoring them and just sticking to their guns is a very bad idea.

I'm certainly not buying anything from Bioware again if they don't majorly overhaul these endings. And no, I'm not a simpleton. I'm a bloody Bio-Chemist, I get exactly what the hell the endings were going for, and I could probably do a better job of working out how Synthesis could theoretically work than Mac Walters ever could, but it'd still be space magic bollocks.

Modifié par Total Biscuit, 23 mars 2012 - 06:59 .

[Melgrimm]

The three choices at the end are not problematic: what is disappointing about the game is that the cutscenes they trigger are all fairly homogeneous, and the pacing is choppy. I want more variation in those cutscenes based on the choices I have made as a player, and I want those choices to weave together adequately to produce a coherent ending. My squadmates, for instance, suddenly appearing on the crashed Normandy is disconcerting since there is no explanation as to how they disappeared from the battle. Jeff's jump to some unknown system is equally convoluted since it lacks context. If I didn't have enough war assets, I should probably lose my squad if not the Normandy all together; and since those war assets are directly determined from the choices I made in the previous two games, the game's ending would feel fairly unique.

There only has to be a few variables to make it fairly stellar: Anderson's fate, the squad's the Normandy's, Shephard's, Earth's, and the Reapers'. Many of those variables are covered, and only need tweaks or explanations. As long as these variables are factored in to the ending in some way (perhaps scenes not occurring at all depending on assets/ choices-- as a renegade I could see just not seeing what happens to your squad or the Normandy since you didn't take steps to protect or help them anyway) I would be happy.

This post details some interesting padding that would have helped with continuity. I recommend the read: http://social.biowar...index/9888023/1

[ThePanzer99]

Misterdde45000 wrote...

Now i'm understand why at the dev reunion they said " if bioware do anything the fan will not be satisfied "... Of course if you just take the lazy path and choose to do something that is completly out of our revendication we won't be satisfied. they might as well not doing anything :/

It's hard to feel " listen " in those condition. I'm really feeling like bioware have lost somethings these last years.

One of the dev leads for DA:O left bioware due to how the company changed. ME3, following DA2, proves his point as it increasingly looks like the company's gone off the rails.

[Tyrzun]

cerberus1701 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Talcon Warrior wrote...

@Eterna5

Welcome to Consumerism, my friend. If a portion of customers are dissatisfied with a product, they can take the issues that they have to the producer. 50,000 people are vocal about the disappointment felt, and Bioware is offering to rectify only small bit of the issue (So it seems. I hope to be pleasantly surprised when they release the official product).

To say that we should be satisfied with mediocrity is to tell us that our own opinions don't matter. That this is no longer consumerism, but corporate tyranny. We are rising up to get a superior product.

Anyone who thought Bioware would completely re write the ending was delluded.

This.

10,000,0000,000,000,000 times.

Anything that comes will use the end as a springboard.

It was never....EVER...going to happen that what was there already was going to be wiped away.

The problem is some people just cannot comprehend the ending... No matter how much you break it down for them.  Or they just want to complain and troll.

[Turtles_AWD]

Tyrzun wrote...


Boy oh boy.  WOW that's just wow...

Uh you made ZERO sense at all.

By resisting indoctrination and saying you STILL want the Reapers destroyed you resist it and wake up in London. 

ONLY you added the "Reapers" were destroyed and then you woke up.  When in fact I said now you must go into the Citadel for real and destroy them.  That's called libel, claiming people said something they didn't and changing their meaning and words.  <---- it's an attack on another poster and not sticking ot the topic. 

Again, to be clear when you wake up you have to finish the fight.  NONE of what is happening in your mind actually happened in the real world.

Like I said zero plot holes so you had to make up stuff.

Sure, you resist the indoctrination... and then you wake up in London... still indoctrinated. That's how indoctrination works. Did you play the other games in this series?

And I sure hope you brought some space magic with you to finish that fight since you've already been hit by a reaper beam once. All your squadmates are probably dead and the Reapers know what you're planning, so they'll likely just move the citadel.

Also it's still a plothole that they brought the citadel to earth in the first place, and didn't turn off all the mass relays once they had control of it, like Sovreign was planning to do in ME1...

Seriously, play mass effect 1 and 2, then talk about plotholes.

Modifié par Turtles_AWD, 23 mars 2012 - 06:59 .

[jumpingkaede]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

This is hilarious.

Yes, Commander Shepard! The only being in the galaxy able to consciously control their limbic system and change their brain chemistry at will! If you're indoctrinated, then you're indoctrinated. There's no going back. Even Shiala can still hear the reapers. You can't just "throw off" indoctrination. I remember a little scene from mass effect 1; it went a lot like this:

Shepard: Saren, we can totally beat the reapers, you just have to believe.

Saren: You know what, I think you have a poi-AUUUUUUGGGGH HHHHHHEEEAAAARRGGGHHHH AHHHHHH no sorry Sovreign is just too strong.

You remember that? That happened. You know what you would call it if you just say Shepard doesn't apply to this situation? A plot hole.

In all fairness, Saren probably could've overthrown the indoctrination or gotten talked out of it by Shepard.  You remember.  If Saren hadn't gotten those additional Reaper modifications to steady his indoctrination/resolve.

And that was Saren.  Saren almost managed it anyway and did manage to resist it long enough to off himself which was clearly not part of Sovereign's plans.  That's with Reaper mods in him designed to keep him from resisting.

So why couldn't Shepard manage it?  No Reaper mods in Shepard.

Not a plot hole.

[Vox Draco]

Lil One wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

<trim>

You chose "Control", Textbox pops up:

"Congratulations, you did the right thing! Shepard now controls the reapers in some very, very high-minded way uncomprehensible for you simple videogamey-mind! But the galaxy is at peace now, everything is alright. Oh, and of course the Portals won't EX-plode, they IM-plode, so everything is good here, too. No total annihilation of star-systems. We thought this was clear. And now, watch how Joker races to Earth, picks up all your sqaudmates and rushes to safety! That cool planet is very far away and totally nice to live in. He even becomes the founder of a new civilization, and you might meet them with your new most-beloved Space-hero when ME4 comes out! Oh, and of course, even though the ME-Portals are gone the fleet in Earth-Orbit is alright. It got teleported away, each race to their homeworld. The Star Child did this. You see, here is another cutscene to clarify this! Cool, isnt' it? Now could we all forget this, and you buy the new "Aria as naked squadmate-DLC? Please?"

Thanks for the laugh.

You're welcome! After all this whole controversy shouldn't stop anyone from laughing once in a while...bittersweetly at least...

[Alamar2078]

IMHO BW should just say the endings on disk are the "real" ones. They should release a "What If" DLC where they can state we have alternate but "unofficial" endings. Use this What If DLC to give us the thing we didn't see earlier such as many truely divergent endings, choice really matterings, etc.... Add the closure in this DLC. Embrace the indoctrination theory if that works [it works for me] ...

Pretty much everyone wins.

[Riknas]

Indeed, I don't want clarifications to know how little I affected the entire plot, I want some choices that actually let me have my own impact on the galaxy and find some more consistency in the philosophies presented in this game.

[AntiDave]

Commitment is important no matter what you think really happened. This ending was bad because they left us guessing what the hell had just happened instead of telling  us what really happened. And because they didn't do so there was no way in which we could learn about how your crew and the rest of the galaxy would fare after that ending.

And no matter what you think really happened, Bioware will have to commit to showing us what really happened and what the consequences for this science fiction universe were.

They can do this by retconning the ending, using the Indoc theory or even adding an additional ending in which choices actually matter.

[KingG528]

If the Reapers still win...*blood pressure rising*

[Necrotron]

I'm all game for a clarification, if by clarification, it means I can shoot the starchild and kill the reapers without accepting his faulty logic.

[Tyrzun]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

Tyrzun wrote...


Boy oh boy.  WOW that's just wow...

Uh you made ZERO sense at all.

By resisting indoctrination and saying you STILL want the Reapers destroyed you resist it and wake up in London. 

ONLY you added the "Reapers" were destroyed and then you woke up.  When in fact I said now you must go into the Citadel for real and destroy them.  That's called libel, claiming people said something they didn't and changing their meaning and words.  <---- it's an attack on another poster and not sticking ot the topic. 

Again, to be clear when you wake up you have to finish the fight.  NONE of what is happening in your mind actually happened in the real world.

Like I said zero plot holes so you had to make up stuff.

Sure, you resist the indoctrination... and then you wake up in London... still indoctrinated. That's how indoctrination works. Did you play the other games in this series?

And I sure hope you brought some space magic with you to finish that fight since you've already been hit by a reaper beam once. All your squadmates are probably dead and the Reapers know what you're planning, so they'll likely just move the citadel.

Also it's still a plothole that they brought the citadel to earth in the first place, and didn't turn off all the mass relays once they had control of it, like Sovreign was planning to do in ME1...

Seriously, play mass effect 1 and 2, then talk about plotholes.

You are not indoctrinated when you wake up for "real" in London.  There is no evidenec of that.  IF you were instantly indoctrinated as Harbinger tried to do, you are mentally dead.  The game explains that specifically.  The slow process every other character went through by being on a reaper ship or always near a reaper gets it done slowly.  Harbinger is on the opposite side of the protal very close to you when you are knocked out.

It's also why he chooses the form of the "boy" from your dreams.  Another huge hey pay attention this isn't a coincence... he's reading your mind moment.

[jumpingkaede]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

Sure, you resist the indoctrination... and then you wake up in London... still indoctrinated. That's how indoctrination works. Did you play the other games in this series?

Did you?

And Shepard doesn't have to be unindoctrinated forever and happily ever after.

He just has to be unindoctrinated enough to destroy Harbinger and the Reapers.  Presumably after that, Shepard will either (a) not be indoctrinated anymore because Harbinger is dead or ( will succumb to his indoctrination and be dead.

[Stygian1]

Want to keep this thread alive. BioWare just doesn't understand English apperently.

[Tyrzun]

KingG528 wrote...

If the Reapers still win...*blood pressure rising*

They already didn't win if you choose resist aka destruction.  You just didn't get to finish the fight after you woke up back in London.

When the endings first happen the emotions cloud our judgement, but looking back and watching it again.  It'll be fine.  You can watch the ending on youtube and you'll see what I've been talking about.

Now here is another twist.  EMS actually did matter.  If you don't have enough EMS, then you don't have enough "faith" your side can win, so when you choose destruction you "believe" what Harbinger says about you dying on the citadel in an explosion and you don't wake up.

[B1scuits]

Don't speak for me. I'm happy with closure/explanation.
There's a lot in life that is beyond our control. Death is one of those things.
Shepard had to die. Just need it cleaned up a bit so it's not so confusing.

[PeterG1]

I'll add my support for this. I admit, I did enjoy the current endings. And as much as I would like the current endings to stay and to--yes--have them clarified, I would really like it more if I had additional, alternative endings.

Yes, BioWare, please give us additional alternative endings, not just clarification on the current endings. Please.

[groundhogie]

I doubt there going to make brand new endings. Not trying to be a downer or anything for those of you who are really hoping for it, but yeah... I don't think so. Some sort of epilogue is likely going to be what is changed/added.

[SilentWolfie]

I'm going to bed now, 3 am. Hold the line people! I really don't want clarification/closure. My shephard causing genocide no matter what with the mass relays and lack of pure option? Circular logic involving godchild? That's your idea of clarification, Bioware? No thanks.

Modifié par SilentWolfie, 23 mars 2012 - 07:08 .

[Turtles_AWD]

Tyrzun wrote...


You are not indoctrinated when you wake up for "real" in London.  There is no evidenec of that.  IF you were instantly indoctrinated as Harbinger tried to do, you are mentally dead.  The game explains that specifically.  The slow process every other character went through by being on a reaper ship or always near a reaper gets it done slowly.  Harbinger is on the opposite side of the protal very close to you when you are knocked out.

It's also why he chooses the form of the "boy" from your dreams.  Another huge hey pay attention this isn't a coincence... he's reading your mind moment.

The evidence that you will still be indoctrinated when you wake up in London is every other indoctrinated character in these games, and the codex entries on indoctrination.

The only way in which Shepard could be resisting the indoctrination and remain himself is if the Deus Ex Machina, like the thorian, changes his brain chemistry again in such a way as to remove the controlling aspect of it. If this is true then the Deus Ex Machina is clearly not an agent of the reapers and when it tells you what the different colored options do, there's not a reason to think its lying. If it is lying about the green and blue options, and it is an agent of the reapers, then it is not going to remove the indoctrination effects from Shepard, and he will remain controlled.

[nrcrane]

Modifié par nrcrane, 23 mars 2012 - 07:11 .