504 réponses à ce sujet

[seek37]

I think I would be most happy if they just gave up on this and went back to the drawing board and made a new more well thought out ME3 at this point.

[Turtles_AWD]

jreezy wrote...

B1scuits wrote...

Don't speak for me. I'm happy with closure/explanation.
There's a lot in life that is beyond our control. Death is one of those things.
Shepard had to die. Just need it cleaned up a bit so it's not so confusing.

You're way off if you think Shepard's death is what the majority have a problem with.

I think he's also way off if he thinks Shepard had to die. Jesus is not the only hero figure in western mythology, people. It is possible to emulate others!

[Tyrzun]

jreezy wrote...

Iwillbeback wrote...

They don't seem to get the problem with the ending.

I hope people will not believe BioWare when they say "we listen to our fans" now because there is so much evidence of the contrary.

That's not true at all.  In fact it's the opposite.

Dr. Ray Muzyka said this
"So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations."

He called the us the core fans, aka the primary fans.  Not the minority.  He gave us great respect by calling us that and acknowleded we have been there to build up Bioware.  He then admitted the real problem and didn't spin it like so many have tried.  He mentioned they didn't deliver on the expectations they built for us.

So, for anyone to claim they aren't listening is preposterous and totally not based on fact.

We didn't get our endings that show what happended with all the choices we made, and thus got to see our "different" endings compared to the choices others made.  We got our abbreviated we wake up in London after resisting Ind. none of what happened while knocked out happened.

The only remaining issue is if we will get the "completed" ending for free or not.  We still have that fight to fight, but that may end up being against EA.  

[ChuckieJ]

Tovanus wrote...

So yes, it was a Deus Ex Machina. They introduced an utterly unexplained plot device that solved all your problems using an inscrutible set of magic beams. The fact that the Crucible appeared in the third game of the trilogy early on doesn't redeem it. All that means is that they missed an opportunity to use the rest of the third game to diffuse the danger of falling into "deus ex machina." And the fact is that if the explanation at the very end had been well thought out, obviously pre-planned, and worked with previous games, they still could have diffused people's deus ex machina complaints.

Trying to argue that the Starchild is not a deus ex machina plot device is inane.

The Starchild does not exist.  One of the pieces of evidence is that no one on the shuttle tries to help the child jump on to it. He must swing one leg up and get on that way by himself. Surely a refugee would have helped him get on if only to speed the evacuation process.

The child is merely another tool in the Reapers' indoctrination arsenal. It tries to convince you that Control or Synthesis are preferable to Destroying the Reapers. 

The Magic Beams also do not exist. The entire sequence is in your mind but that doesn't make it unimportant  or unreal. The consequences of what happens in your Citadel-mindspace are very real.
If you give in, you become like Saren or the Illusive Man. 
If you don't, you wake up in London (hopefully) ready to finish the fight. 

Now let's finish it! 

Turtles_AWD wrote...

I think he's also way off if he thinks Shepard had to die. Jesus is not the only hero figure in western mythology, people. It is possible to emulate others!

Jesus is a historical figure from the Middle East. 

Modifié par ChuckieJ, 23 mars 2012 - 07:14 .

[KingG528]

Tyrzun wrote...

KingG528 wrote...

If the Reapers still win...*blood pressure rising*

They already didn't win if you choose resist aka destruction.  You just didn't get to finish the fight after you woke up back in London.

When the endings first happen the emotions cloud our judgement, but looking back and watching it again.  It'll be fine.  You can watch the ending on youtube and you'll see what I've been talking about.

Now here is another twist.  EMS actually did matter.  If you don't have enough EMS, then you don't have enough "faith" your side can win, so when you choose destruction you "believe" what Harbinger says about you dying on the citadel in an explosion and you don't wake up.

Ok I see what you mean. But does that mean that the relays were still destroyed and Joker ran off or did Shepard just imagine it then?

[Turtles_AWD]

ChuckieJ wrote...


The Starchild does not exist.  One of the pieces of evidence is that no one on the shuttle tries to help the child jump on to it. He must swing one leg up and get on that way by himself. Surely a refugee would have helped him get on if only to speed the evacuation process.

The child is merely another tool in the Reapers' indoctrination arsenal. It tries to convince you that Control or Synthesis are preferable to Destroying the Reapers. 

The Magic Beams also do not exist. The entire sequence is in your mind but that doesn't make it unimportant  or unreal. The consequences of what happens in your Citadel-mindspace are very real.
If you give in, you become like Saren or the Illusive Man. 
If you don't, you wake up in London (hopefully) ready to finish the fight. 

Now let's finish it! 

There's a picture of the kid on the memorial wall. To view him as an agent of indoctrination is interesting but unplanned by bioware and just as problematic regarding the ending.

[Wildhide]

If all that comes out is "clarity and closure" for a bad writing, then I just won't be buying Bioware anymore. If I want bad writing I'll go play a random FPS.

[Greed1914]

I really want them to do more than just some sort of quick scene or an epilogue full of text.  One of the big problems I have with the ending is that it's so obvious that corners were cut.  War assets were not represented, the video was recycled with different color, etc.  The point I'm making is that it was not what I consider their best effort.  Mass Effect deserves better, and I know Bioware is fully capable of doing  better.  The rest of the series proves that.  Cutting corners once and then cutting corners again is not going to impress many people.

[ThePasserby]

I'll reiterate that if Bioware is going to let the ending stay as is and only dressing it up, I'm done with this company. There are more games out there than there is time to play.

[AlexMBrennan]

I honestly don't care any more. ME3 endings suck and I don't see that changing.

[Tyrzun]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

Tyrzun wrote...


You are not indoctrinated when you wake up for "real" in London.  There is no evidenec of that.  IF you were instantly indoctrinated as Harbinger tried to do, you are mentally dead.  The game explains that specifically.  The slow process every other character went through by being on a reaper ship or always near a reaper gets it done slowly.  Harbinger is on the opposite side of the protal very close to you when you are knocked out.

It's also why he chooses the form of the "boy" from your dreams.  Another huge hey pay attention this isn't a coincence... he's reading your mind moment.

The evidence that you will still be indoctrinated when you wake up in London is every other indoctrinated character in these games, and the codex entries on indoctrination.

The only way in which Shepard could be resisting the indoctrination and remain himself is if the Deus Ex Machina, like the thorian, changes his brain chemistry again in such a way as to remove the controlling aspect of it. If this is true then the Deus Ex Machina is clearly not an agent of the reapers and when it tells you what the different colored options do, there's not a reason to think its lying. If it is lying about the green and blue options, and it is an agent of the reapers, then it is not going to remove the indoctrination effects from Shepard, and he will remain controlled.

You are speculating and based on nothing.

The things I said are not speculation and are based on what you see.

Knocked out 20 meters from the Portal in full armor

Wake up with a pistol that has infinite ammo  <-----  That directly screams impossible.

So, the discussion stops right there.  None of that is possible.

You're "armor" blown off theory.  Well, Sheps armor goes all the way around ALL of his limbs and his torso.  There is no way to "blow" it off without blowing him apart.  <------ That directly screams impossible

So, in 2 ways Bioware says HEY what you are seeing is impossible.

Then you resist and wake up back with your full N7 armor on again.


You're other option is to believe Shep REALLY WAS in the citadel.  Chose destruction while wearing no armor, survived the explosion, survived being in space with no armor or helmet, survived falling through the atmospher without a helmet or armor, hit the earth at over 130mph minimum with no armor or helment, and then wakes up back in his full armor.


Those are your only 2 choices. 

It's pretty clear that one is plot hole free and makes sense and the other... the one you keep defending is ridiculous illogical.

[B1scuits]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

jreezy wrote...

B1scuits wrote...

Don't speak for me. I'm happy with closure/explanation.
There's a lot in life that is beyond our control. Death is one of those things.
Shepard had to die. Just need it cleaned up a bit so it's not so confusing.

You're way off if you think Shepard's death is what the majority have a problem with.

I think he's also way off if he thinks Shepard had to die. Jesus is not the only hero figure in western mythology, people. It is possible to emulate others!

I must have a lot in common with Bio.. I seem to have failed to explain myself properly.

[Ruari]

Wildhide wrote...

If all that comes out is "clarity and closure" for a bad writing, then I just won't be buying Bioware anymore. If I want bad writing I'll go play a random FPS.

I will go on record right now (for anyone keeping track of this maddness) and say that if this DLC only "clarifies" how Shepard F***ed up the glaxay, I will not purchase it (I'm assuming Bioware is going to charge). As part of the retake movement I was not fighting to better understand how bad the ending was. A turd still looks like a turd even if you "clarify" your view on it through a microscope.

Bioware, I'm laying off the pressure right now because you have said you're working on something. PLEASE, make it a bridge to your fans, not a giant middle finger statue that will mark the gravesite of your company's access to my wallet.

[Lil One]

Vox Draco wrote...

Lil One wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...
<trim>
You chose "Control", Textbox pops up:
<trim>

Thanks for the laugh.

You're welcome! After all this whole controversy shouldn't stop anyone from laughing once in a while...bittersweetly at least...

There's our toast.  To just bittersweetly laugh.

Modifié par Lil One, 23 mars 2012 - 07:20 .

[Fruxie]

I said this to my boyfriend the other day... clarification would be ok, I wouldn't be happy, but alright... ending extensions/alternate endings/addition game play would be bloody fantastic! I would be jumping up and down with joy. I would love Bioware long time.

[ChuckieJ]

Turtles_AWD wrote...


There's a picture of the kid on the memorial wall. To view him as an agent of indoctrination is interesting but unplanned by bioware and just as problematic regarding the ending.

That doesn't make him real. If someone else said "Hey remember that boy that died just as we escaped?", while pointing at the picture, then sure. No one sees him except Shepard ever. The youtube video about the Indoctrination Theory lays it all out pretty well. ()

The main problem I have with the Theory is that the hints were too subtle. I was tired after work trying to get through the campaign before it was spoiled for me and I missed most of them. In hindsight, they were there all along. Hence, not a Deus Ex Machina.

In fact it may be that the Crucible is not a solution at all and it was just a ruse. Then you must rely on your fleet strength alone to win after defeating indoctrination. We'll have to see!

[Nathan Redgrave]

SilentWolfie wrote...

We want a new ENDING NOT SOME CLARIFICATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/Rant.

Kindly don't speak for everyone, because not everyone agrees with you.

I'm happy with the concept of the current ending, I just think it's not cohesive enough and lacks any real sense that Shepard's previous choices had any impact on events.

[Tyrzun]

Turtles_AWD wrote...

ChuckieJ wrote...


The Starchild does not exist.  One of the pieces of evidence is that no one on the shuttle tries to help the child jump on to it. He must swing one leg up and get on that way by himself. Surely a refugee would have helped him get on if only to speed the evacuation process.

The child is merely another tool in the Reapers' indoctrination arsenal. It tries to convince you that Control or Synthesis are preferable to Destroying the Reapers. 

The Magic Beams also do not exist. The entire sequence is in your mind but that doesn't make it unimportant  or unreal. The consequences of what happens in your Citadel-mindspace are very real.
If you give in, you become like Saren or the Illusive Man. 
If you don't, you wake up in London (hopefully) ready to finish the fight. 

Now let's finish it! 

There's a picture of the kid on the memorial wall. To view him as an agent of indoctrination is interesting but unplanned by bioware and just as problematic regarding the ending.

I have to agree.  The kid is obviously real.  The people thinking the kid is part of a slow indoctrination have no evidence at all.  He haunts Shep from Earth.  Harbinger does later choose that form when attempting to get you to indoctrinate yourself though.  He's in your mind after all.

Also, these slow indoctrination theorists aren't remember what it takes to indoctrinate you.  You must be constantly in the presence of the "Fields" reapers project for indoctrination to occure.  Shep never is.  Unless he is actually fighting Reapers up close.  Like Harbinger at the end.  Which is why Harbinger goes the direct mental assualt route.  The only reason Harbinger could try is Shep was already knocked out.  

[maxloef]

Samtheman63 wrote...

Not "we", you, and a bunch of other ignorant numptys

The ending is fine, just fill in the blanks

statistics dont lie buddy more people hate the ending then like it, everyone i KNOW thats played it HATES the ending...

[Persephone]

Not everybody "wants a new ending". I for one do NOT want them to retcon the endings OR scrap them. (Not possible) I want them expanded and more consequences shown in the end. If they ADD new endings ON TOP of that, fine. But that's it.

What are the next demands going to be?

Modifié par Persephone, 23 mars 2012 - 07:25 .

[SCJ90]

Indeed but lets just see what they have in store for us, shall we? Lets just see where it goes, and please BW have an open discution with us fans

[Morladin]

Leafs43 wrote...

If they aren't going to do the indoctrination theory

-We want star child to disappear because the idea behind him sucks
-We want to have the option of not nuking the entire galaxy
-We want a more conclusive way of killing reapers other than space magic
-We'd like the ending most of all to make sense.

Concise and well said. My biggest issue with the current ending is all the plot holes caused by the space magic and the godchild.

[Persephone]

maxloef wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

Not "we", you, and a bunch of other ignorant numptys

The ending is fine, just fill in the blanks

statistics dont lie buddy more people hate the ending then like it, everyone i KNOW thats played it HATES the ending...

Quantity clearly stands for quality....oh wait....

Never mind the hysteria and bandwagon hopping.

[Pee Jae]

Putting all of the "video games as art" to the side, as it stands right now, Mass Effect 3 is a video game that can't be "won". When I beat a game, this is typically how I react:



ME3 did not give me this reaction at all in any of it's "endings." Only dissatisfaction, questions without answers and ultimately, depression that this great series had to end like this.

[Ruari]

Tyrzun wrote...

Turtles_AWD wrote...

ChuckieJ wrote...


The Starchild does not exist.  One of the pieces of evidence is that no one on the shuttle tries to help the child jump on to it. He must swing one leg up and get on that way by himself. Surely a refugee would have helped him get on if only to speed the evacuation process.

The child is merely another tool in the Reapers' indoctrination arsenal. It tries to convince you that Control or Synthesis are preferable to Destroying the Reapers. 

The Magic Beams also do not exist. The entire sequence is in your mind but that doesn't make it unimportant  or unreal. The consequences of what happens in your Citadel-mindspace are very real.
If you give in, you become like Saren or the Illusive Man. 
If you don't, you wake up in London (hopefully) ready to finish the fight. 

Now let's finish it! 

There's a picture of the kid on the memorial wall. To view him as an agent of indoctrination is interesting but unplanned by bioware and just as problematic regarding the ending.

I have to agree.  The kid is obviously real.  The people thinking the kid is part of a slow indoctrination have no evidence at all.  He haunts Shep from Earth.  Harbinger does later choose that form when attempting to get you to indoctrinate yourself though.  He's in your mind after all.

Also, these slow indoctrination theorists aren't remember what it takes to indoctrinate you.  You must be constantly in the presence of the "Fields" reapers project for indoctrination to occure.  Shep never is.  Unless he is actually fighting Reapers up close.  Like Harbinger at the end.  Which is why Harbinger goes the direct mental assualt route.  The only reason Harbinger could try is Shep was already knocked out.  

I'm fine with the general idea of the Indoc theory. I don't even think it has to be slow. To me it's just a "mental assault" the reapers are trying. We still don't know what they're capable of, heck maybe everyone of them around Earth just focuses on Shepard in one attack. Who knows?

That would just make it all the more epic when Shep wins