319 réponses à ce sujet

[Getorex]

Lightice_av wrote...

Sigh yourself. We have stargazer at the VERY ass end of the ending talking to the kid. They are CLEARLY on the same planet that the Normandy crashed on. They are clearly intended to show far, distant descendants of the Normandy crew surivivors of the crash.

First, there are not enough people on the Normandy for this. EVERYONE on that planet is a brother or sister after only a few generations. There is no way for stargazer and kid to exist, particularly as stargazer indicates that the details (of the stories of Shepard) are lost in history. THAT means a REAL LONG TIME.

For this reason they can't be the descendents of the Normandy crew. As you say, too long time, too few people. Hence, the planet was either colonized before, or they made contact with other systems and were rescued. I prefer to take the discussion as metaphorical, not conveying ignorance of the universe but making a point of the vastness of the cosmos and all the wonders that can be found there. And who knows, the Synthesis end might have literally seeded every single planet with new kind of half-synthetic life.

You are DESPERATELY clutching at straws!

They did NOT show the crew climbing out of the crashed Normandy onto a colonized planet.  If that is what they intended to convey or meant, they would have showed a COLONY in the distance when the crew stepped out and looked off into the distant horizon.  There would have sat, in the far distance, a colony/city/something that indicated inhabited/colonized planet.  They didn't show this, they showed raw nature CLEARLY to convey that the crew has landed on a virtually pristine planet.  

Tali and Garrus are F*CKED.  The planet cannot both be healthy and compatible with humans and Asari (Liara) AND with Tali and Garrus.  One or the other.  No in between.  Some people are royally screwed on planet Incest (in the non-kinky way).  

Stop reaching beyond what is clearly presented.  Hell, their NOTES don't even support a single line of your made up straw-grasping panic. 

They did NOT think this out deeply.  They did not actually think this out AT ALL.  They grabbed the first half-assed idea they pulled out of a hat!  

They should have stuck with their apparently original idea to bring dark energy into the game again (remember ME2?) and somehow tie that to the Reapers, their harvesting, etc.  They dropped it, left dark energy hanging out there like a dingleberry and went full retard. 

[Lightice_av]

Fine, how about Beren then? One of the staples of Middle Earth mythology. Maimed, ultimately died, but was restored to life to live out a peaceful, mortal existence in the end.

A couple of years with the woman he loved, and then both literally burned out by the divine light of his lover's necklace. Yeah, that's bittersweet too. But you can just as well infer that Shepard gets ascended to a higher synthetic being at least in the Control ending, in which case he's still watching over his loved one. Different kind of bittersweet, but still rather poignant.

People here seem to think that Shepard is a God who can make everything right with the wave of his hand if he just tries really hard. But s/he's just a man or a woman who makes the best of the situation however s/he can. There isn't always a magic solution that allows everything to go just as intended; sometimes hard decisions and great sacrifices have to be made to save the day. Be happy that there is a magic solution to save everybody else, at least.

[Siegdrifa]

If Shep had to die in all ending, no.

[Giltspur]

I would be okay with Shepard dying all endings. I didn't like the endings we in fact got, but an array of intersting dead Shepard endings would have been fine.

Modifié par Giltspur, 25 mars 2012 - 06:22 .

[AlanC9]

Lightice_av wrote...

However, there is a possibility that the QEC network was centralized on the Citadel, and so a lot of it could be gone.

It was not centralized anywhere. In fact it's not centralized at all. The quantum entanglers can only communicate between two points at a time. I am assuming that every major ship in the fleet had an entangler that contacts to their home world and nowhere else.

Right. But since it is point-to-point and the links are relatively expensive, one reasonable way to set up a QEC network would be to have a lot of the points at one central point. Then you can pass messages between nodes at the central point and so link all of the outer nodes with minimal delay. For instance, instead of linking Earth with Thessia, Earth with Palaven, Palaven with Thessia, and all three with the Citadel, you'd only link all three to the Citadel  and then pass Earth-Palaven messages through the Citadel hub.

Obviously that would still leave a bunch of functional QECs even if there was such a central hub and it's gone. Earth would probably have functional communications with most human-settled clusters, since the Alliance seems to be using QECs for fleet communication.

[Lightice_av]

Stop reaching beyond what is clearly presented. Hell, their NOTES don't even support a single line of your made up straw-grasping panic.

Panic? I have no particular reason to panic. I infer from the data available what is possible to happen in order to the conditions shown in the end to take place. There are several possibilities, I'm just describing one possible explanation.

They should have stuck with their apparently original idea to bring dark energy into the game again (remember ME2?) and somehow tie that to the Reapers, their harvesting, etc. They dropped it, left dark energy hanging out there like a dingleberry and went full retard.

Except that the dark energy was not the original idea at all. It was something they came up with while writing ME2, and hoped to think of something to do with it, but didn't. The original ending for the series thought during ME1 involved the Citadel and the Mass Relays, like the ending that we had.

[Lightice_av]

Right. But since it is point-to-point and the links are relatively expensive, one reasonable way to set up a QEC network would be to have a lot of the points at one central point. Then you can pass messages between nodes at the central point and so link all of the outer nodes with minimal delay. For instance, instead of linking Earth with Thessia, Earth with Palaven, Palaven with Thessia, and all three with the Citadel, you'd only link all three to the Citadel and then pass Earth-Palaven messages through the Citadel hub.

They are confidental military communicators, not a generalized communication network. The Extranet existed for that purpose. They are not connected everywhere. They only connect military commanders to their headquarters. There is absolutely no evidence of the existence of nodes or hubs in the system. I am presuming that every command ship is connected to its home planet. Nothing more is needed for the vital communications to continue taking place.

[AlanC9]

Getorex wrote...
They did NOT show the crew climbing out of the crashed Normandy onto a colonized planet.  If that is what they intended to convey or meant, they would have showed a COLONY in the distance when the crew stepped out and looked off into the distant horizon.  There would have sat, in the far distance, a colony/city/something that indicated inhabited/colonized planet.  They didn't show this, they showed raw nature CLEARLY to convey that the crew has landed on a virtually pristine planet.  

Even if I believed that, so what? Plenty of ships left in the ME universe, and garden worlds are almost all colonized by somebody. There will be ships there within weeks.

[Tirigon]

Lightice_av wrote...

People here seem to think that Shepard is a God who can make everything right with the wave of his hand if he just tries really hard.

That is because for 2 games he kinda was.

[Lightice_av]

That is because for 2 games he kinda was.

Not really. Shepard could not hope to face Saren and the Sovereign in a direct fight, or to avoid working with Cerberus. Shepard does not control the situation more than 90% of the time. S/he only reacts to the choices that are available.

[AlanC9]

Lightice_av wrote...

They are confidental military communicators, not a generalized communication network. The Extranet existed for that purpose. They are not connected everywhere. They only connect military commanders to their headquarters. There is absolutely no evidence of the existence of nodes or hubs in the system. I am presuming that every command ship is connected to its home planet. Nothing more is needed for the vital communications to continue taking place.

I had forgotten that. Of course, the HQ becomes a node in this case, though the QEC en-points don't really have to be located close together. So Bio can cut the turians, etc, off from news of their homeworlds if they really want to for a sequel. But it isn't mandatory.

[chengthao]

Siegdrifa wrote...

If Shep had to die in all ending, no.

^this

options would be nice, since this game is supposedly about making decisions . . . and i hope the renegade ending isn't the "survivng" ending

[Iakus]

Lightice_av wrote...

People here seem to think that Shepard is a God who can make everything right with the wave of his hand if he just tries really hard. But s/he's just a man or a woman who makes the best of the situation however s/he can. There isn't always a magic solution that allows everything to go just as intended; sometimes hard decisions and great sacrifices have to be made to save the day. Be happy that there is a magic solution to save everybody else, at least.

Not everything.  One thing.  Shepard living.  That's what this thread is all about.  Would it be so bad if there was one ending where Shepard could survive and live out his/her life as a mortal?  Even if another sacrifice had to be made?

[The Razman]

Lightice_av wrote...

That is because for 2 games he kinda was.

Not really. Shepard could not hope to face Saren and the Sovereign in a direct fight, or to avoid working with Cerberus. Shepard does not control the situation more than 90% of the time. S/he only reacts to the choices that are available.

But you as the player-character could "win" every situation you were put into. Two crewmates not getting along? There's a dialogue option for that. Want everyone to survive and be happy? There's an option for that. Want to have sex with one of your crewmates? Take your pick, you're a frickin' god in their eyes, all you gotta do is talk to them enough and they'll eventually break down and do the nasty with you.

The ending is the first occasion where players of Mass Effect aren't being given a way of bending everything that comes to hand in the universe to their will and being able to "win". People are angry at that without really realising the implications.

[The Razman]

iakus wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

People here seem to think that Shepard is a God who can make everything right with the wave of his hand if he just tries really hard. But s/he's just a man or a woman who makes the best of the situation however s/he can. There isn't always a magic solution that allows everything to go just as intended; sometimes hard decisions and great sacrifices have to be made to save the day. Be happy that there is a magic solution to save everybody else, at least.

Not everything.  One thing.  Shepard living.  That's what this thread is all about.  Would it be so bad if there was one ending where Shepard could survive and live out his/her life as a mortal?  Even if another sacrifice had to be made?

Yes.

[Iakus]

The Razman wrote...

iakus wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

People here seem to think that Shepard is a God who can make everything right with the wave of his hand if he just tries really hard. But s/he's just a man or a woman who makes the best of the situation however s/he can. There isn't always a magic solution that allows everything to go just as intended; sometimes hard decisions and great sacrifices have to be made to save the day. Be happy that there is a magic solution to save everybody else, at least.

Not everything.  One thing.  Shepard living.  That's what this thread is all about.  Would it be so bad if there was one ending where Shepard could survive and live out his/her life as a mortal?  Even if another sacrifice had to be made?

Yes.

Bolded the last line of my previous statement in case you missed it.

Also:  Dragon.  Age.  Origins

[Tirigon]

The Razman wrote...

But you as the player-character could "win" every situation you were put into. Two crewmates not getting along? There's a dialogue option for that. Want everyone to survive and be happy? There's an option for that. Want to have sex with one of your crewmates? Take your pick, you're a frickin' god in their eyes, all you gotta do is talk to them enough and they'll eventually break down and do the nasty with you.

The ending is the first occasion where players of Mass Effect aren't being given a way of bending everything that comes to hand in the universe to their will and being able to "win". People are angry at that without really realising the implications.

It makes no sense. You could win every time so far, and in fact winning is what makes games great - it is the one thing they have over books as a story-telling medium.

Why take that chance away now.

[The Razman]

iakus wrote...

The Razman wrote...

iakus wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

People here seem to think that Shepard is a God who can make everything right with the wave of his hand if he just tries really hard. But s/he's just a man or a woman who makes the best of the situation however s/he can. There isn't always a magic solution that allows everything to go just as intended; sometimes hard decisions and great sacrifices have to be made to save the day. Be happy that there is a magic solution to save everybody else, at least.

Not everything.  One thing.  Shepard living.  That's what this thread is all about.  Would it be so bad if there was one ending where Shepard could survive and live out his/her life as a mortal?  Even if another sacrifice had to be made?

Yes.

Bolded the last line of my previous statement in case you missed it.

Also:  Dragon.  Age.  Origins

Tell me that the death of the Warden in Dragon. Age. Origins. was emotional and hit you hard, and you have a point. Otherwise, pointing out something which tried to do exactly what you want and failed as a result ... isn't convincing.

[stysiaq]

I think we deserve an ending where Shepard gets old. But his/her death should also be an option.
Gosh, the more I think about it the more I want a New Hope ending.

[Tirigon]

The Razman wrote...

Tell me that the death of the Warden in Dragon. Age. Origins. was emotional and hit you hard, and you have a point. Otherwise, pointing out something which tried to do exactly what you want and failed as a result ... isn't convincing.

Actually the ending of DAO was more emotional than the entire Mass Effect series, even if your Warden DIDNT die.

I still remember how I cried when Alistar sacrificed himself because he couldnt live without the Warden, and of course she was sad because for the very same reason she intended to sacrifice herlsef but that guy just grabbed the sword faster:crying::crying::crying:

[jeweledleah]

see, at least in dragon age, warden having to die ACTUALLY MADE SENSE. becasue that's what was required to destroy the Archdemon, for the warden making a final blow to die. and we STILL get an out from it. someone else could die. or we could perform a dark ritual.

Shepard always dying makes ZERO sense in context of the story and the universe. Shepard must die in order for universe to live.. kinda.. what is this, a biblical analogy all of a sudden? in the last 10 minutes? there is no other way to activate the crucible? no way to just duke it out force against force? the reasoning for Shepard always dying is so flimsy, it literally comes down to "happy endings make bad stories"

to quote the dude?

that's just like.. your opinion man.

[jeweledleah]

The Razman wrote...

iakus wrote...

The Razman wrote...

iakus wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

People here seem to think that Shepard is a God who can make everything right with the wave of his hand if he just tries really hard. But s/he's just a man or a woman who makes the best of the situation however s/he can. There isn't always a magic solution that allows everything to go just as intended; sometimes hard decisions and great sacrifices have to be made to save the day. Be happy that there is a magic solution to save everybody else, at least.

Not everything.  One thing.  Shepard living.  That's what this thread is all about.  Would it be so bad if there was one ending where Shepard could survive and live out his/her life as a mortal?  Even if another sacrifice had to be made?

Yes.

Bolded the last line of my previous statement in case you missed it.

Also:  Dragon.  Age.  Origins

Tell me that the death of the Warden in Dragon. Age. Origins. was emotional and hit you hard, and you have a point. Otherwise, pointing out something which tried to do exactly what you want and failed as a result ... isn't convincing.

you mean completely optional death of the warden that you had at least 3 different ways to avoid?  and yes, when you do chose the sacrifice?  it was emotional.  I only have one warden that died.  and she was very difficult to play and yes, I cried at the end.  but I replayed the game, becasue I knew that I wasn't stuck into it.

emotional impact is great and all, but positive emotions are NOT evil.  on the contrary.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 25 mars 2012 - 06:44 .

[Iakus]

The Razman wrote...

Tell me that the death of the Warden in Dragon. Age. Origins. was emotional and hit you hard, and you have a point. Otherwise, pointing out something which tried to do exactly what you want and failed as a result ... isn't convincing.

Okay, the Warden's death in Dragon.  Age.  Origins is emotional and hit me hard.  Especially Leliana's epilogue if you romanced her.

Heck letting Alistair die to kill the archdemon was painful to do.

Am I convincing yet?

[The Razman]

Tirigon wrote...

The Razman wrote...

But you as the player-character could "win" every situation you were put into. Two crewmates not getting along? There's a dialogue option for that. Want everyone to survive and be happy? There's an option for that. Want to have sex with one of your crewmates? Take your pick, you're a frickin' god in their eyes, all you gotta do is talk to them enough and they'll eventually break down and do the nasty with you.

The ending is the first occasion where players of Mass Effect aren't being given a way of bending everything that comes to hand in the universe to their will and being able to "win". People are angry at that without really realising the implications.

It makes no sense. You could win every time so far, and in fact winning is what makes games great - it is the one thing they have over books as a story-telling medium.

Why take that chance away now.

Because stories where the good guys win all the time are stale, predictable and just not very emotional. If you always have the option of going back and winning, then there's no real tragedy in losing.

Would Final Fantasy VII have been as emotional if there was a choice or action you could take which would've resulted in Aerith surviving?

[FFinfinity1]

I would be ok with shepard dying but the way he did in ME3 just plain made no sense, I mean if he died setting of the crucible and saving the galaxy, i would have been ok with that, but the addition of the deus ex machina star child made me angry.

Modifié par FFinfinity1, 25 mars 2012 - 06:43 .