149 réponses à ce sujet

[RampantBeaver]

I wish i could play BGII instead it crashes after every 5 mins of play. Maybe just one day it'll actually allow me to play it and i can comment like everyone else does on whether its better than DA:O.

Would be nice for someone like me who never played the game in its hay day to give it an open minded review next to DA:O.

Modifié par RampantBeaver, 01 décembre 2009 - 12:17 .

[purplesunset]

Venthiros wrote...

 advertised for a target audience of 14-17 year old white males

Umm, I wonder why?  Maybe because the majority of Western RPG gamers are white???  Who do you think the target audience of 50 Cent Blood on the sand is targeted toward? LMAO  People cease to amaze me.  Everything has to cater toward everyone else but white people.

I don't mean to nitpick, but rap albums are actually marketted and targetted towards white people. BY FAR,  the people who buy rap albums the most, and who attend rap concerts the most are white. Do some economic research before posting.

I won't address your other points, because this isn't the thread for that.

[Venthiros]

Please do, I can't help that white kids today are retarded and like garbage music. You might be right about the crap-hop music, but that really has no significance in the overall scheme of the OP's post and to what my main point was.

Obviously though we all know who Roleplaying games developed by a company in the Western world are designed for.  I don't know many non-white kids who were playing D&D back in the 70's or many whom are interested in Medieval lore and fantasy besides Asians.

Modifié par Venthiros, 01 décembre 2009 - 12:28 .

[purplesunset]

RampantBeaver wrote...

I wish i could play BGII instead it crashes after every 5 mins of play. Maybe just one day it'll actually allow me to play it and i can comment like everyone else does on whether its better than DA:O.

Would be nice for someone like me who never played the game in its hay day to give it an open minded review next to DA:O.

I didn't play BG 2 in its heyday either, and I still think it's an excellent game. (I actually prefer BG 1 though)


I played Baldur's Gate 1  *after* I played NWN, KOTOR,  and NWN 2, yet I still preferred it over those games. The rose-colored glasses argument doesn't apply to everyone.

[Sirsmirkalot]

RampantBeaver wrote...

I wish i could play BGII instead it crashes after every 5 mins of play. Maybe just one day it'll actually allow me to play it and i can comment like everyone else does on whether its better than DA:O.

Would be nice for someone like me who never played the game in its hay day to give it an open minded review next to DA:O.

Have you made sure you've downloaded the lastest BG2 patch? I remember there being one specifically made to fix BG2 for Vista.

It might be abit of work, but it's worth it.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 01 décembre 2009 - 12:24 .

[purplesunset]

Venthiros wrote...

Please do, I can't help that white kids today are retarded and like garbage music.

Obviously though we all know who Roleplaying games developed by a company in the Western world are designed toward.  I don't know many non-white kids who were playing D&D back in the 70's or many whom are interested in Medieval lore and fantasy besides Asians.

I'm black and I'm the biggest D&D/ Medieval lore, and Tolkien geek I know (to tout my own horns ) I even read the Silmarillion BEFORE the LOTR movies came out.

I also studied German and took a class in Old English just to read Beowulf in the native tongue. The point of my  self-aggrandizing spiel is that black rpg gamers do exist, although we are seemingly invisible.


Anyway, if you want to know more about race in RPG games:

See this thread

Modifié par purplesunset, 01 décembre 2009 - 01:06 .

[Walina]

Dam Wookie wrote...

Then I would feel mildly surprised and pleased with this above average game. Hence the 9/10 rating given to all above average games. Instead I'm left disapointed that it is just yet another above average game and not a genuine classic. The Phantom Menace of gaming.

On another note I know this game has an 18 rating but I couldn't help but feel that it has been designed and advertised for a target audience of 14-17 year old white males. The posts on this forum certainly cement that view.

I thought about buying the extra content and replaying. Then I found myself wondering where my Deus Ex, BG, Planescape Torment and Fallout disks are instead.

+10:wub:

[fro7k]

deathwing200 wrote...

fro7k wrote...

14-17 year old white males

Racist.

You're honestly retarded.

If you don't understand why the statement is racist you should just ask why, there's no need to be rude.

[Auraad]

Dam Wookie wrote...

Then I would feel mildly surprised and pleased with this above average game. Hence the 9/10 rating given to all above average games. Instead I'm left disapointed that it is just yet another above average game and not a genuine classic. The Phantom Menace of gaming.

On another note I know this game has an 18 rating but I couldn't help but feel that it has been designed and advertised for a target audience of 14-17 year old white males. The posts on this forum certainly cement that view.

I thought about buying the extra content and replaying. Then I found myself wondering where my Deus Ex, BG, Planescape Torment and Fallout disks are instead.

Hey! You were able to read my mind ... now I know what's wrong all the time ...

When I'm done with DA:O, I'll have to play the BG series again ...

[Dramonium]

xguild wrote...

While I enjoyed Torment and Baulders Gate, certainly classics in retrospect, to say they where "more mature" is silly. Baulders Gate was ... childish, full standard fantasy clice's and predictable storylines. Baulders Gate was a classic because it used classic storylines that where written hundreds of times with different names and places in thousands of fantasy novals and role-playing games (pencil and paper). Its the type of game I could play with my 5 year old comfertably

Dragon's Age is definitly not a 14-17 game (I would question a parent who allowed a 14 year old to play games like this), its definitly for the mature audiance (violance, gore, sex, demons?) since when are any of those things anything but rated R?

Dragons Age is what Baulders Gate became... its effectivly a future classic. We will be talking about Dragons Age 10 years from now as we do today about Baulders Gate

I agree with you... except it's completely the opposite. One of the things I enjoyed about BG2 was that it wasn't about saving the world, it was a personal story. You didn't know what happened to you or who Irenicus was and what he wanted. It all had a kind of mystery to it. DA:O's story about a special order of the spectres-I mean gray wardens saving Citadel space- I mean Ferelden from an invasion from the geth- I mean darkspawn led by a reaver- I mean archdemon's much more cookie cutter than BG2's story, nearly approaching Oblivion's story. Irenicus was also a much more mature villain than... some dragon-demon out to destroy the world. And demons? Euhm... BG2 had a whole plane full of them, with much more variety than DA:O.

EDIT: Oh crap, I just noticed this is in the no spoilers forum. But the things I mentioned, you really find out in the beginning, right? Even in the trailers and all...

Modifié par Dramonium, 01 décembre 2009 - 02:01 .

[SheffSteel]

Saying something is aimed at white males does not necessarily make one racist or sexist. If you think it does in this particular case, please reason that out and provide an argument justifying your position, rather than insulting people you disagree with,



As for the game.... it is what it is.

[SinYang]

People who continue to praise baldurs gate, uninstall all your weidu mods... including the fixpacks which are also un-official... now try said game.

I used to love baldurs but part of that is because of the additional mods.. infact i was playing baldurs between NWN1 online servers.. up until DA came out..

Ever since i played DA to 14th level on first playthrough.. i just cant imagine going back to d&d stuff or comic style dialogues...

That isnt to say i find DA perfect either... mages are nowhere near as tactical as BG2, but imo its surpassed baldurs gate depth of characters, story and most definately graphics for me.

Stuff id like to see added... but its nitpicking.

- MP co-op...no matter how basic.
- Export/import characters.
- Total party of 6, why not?
- Bags... if not more inventory space.
- More loot.
- One or two more romance choices.
- Bowstrings!
- More offensive & defensive spells rather than AOE, AOE - counters!.
- Skin tone palette choices other than Pale/Dark... why not a RED dwarf for fun?
- Player emotes!


Dragon age "the series", atleast 2 more games with same main character & party.. no nwn shadows of undertide nonsense.

Modifié par SinYang, 01 décembre 2009 - 03:06 .

[addiction21]

Dam Wookie wrote...

Then I would feel mildly surprised and pleased with this above average game. Hence the 9/10 rating given to all above average games. Instead I'm left disapointed that it is just yet another above average game and not a genuine classic. The Phantom Menace of gaming.

On another note I know this game has an 18 rating but I couldn't help but feel that it has been designed and advertised for a target audience of 14-17 year old white males. The posts on this forum certainly cement that view.

I thought about buying the extra content and replaying. Then I found myself wondering where my Deus Ex, BG, Planescape Torment and Fallout disks are instead.

Opinion, opinion, insults, and the classic "ohhhh things were so much better back in the day, I love these rose colored glass's" comment. 

[Emryc]

marshalleck wrote...

Baldur's Gate: 90% nostalgia.

Exactly.

Baldur's Gate is a great and fantastic game in the same way LEGO is still the ultimate toy. It was when I was young and thus, by definition, is still the best.

The same goes for music. The music I like(d when I was younger) is the best, because I like it.

While Dragon Age is not the game to end all games, Baldur's Gate (or Planescape, or Deus Ex, or Ultima Online, or whatever) is not the epitome of game greatness.

Besides, I think Dragon Age is a good game. Thus it is good. Why? I'm an 'old school crpg'er' as well, and my opinion reigns supreme.

[SheffSteel]

Hmp. No reason why BG can't be better than DAO. Who's to say how history will judge them?

It is reasonable to expect graphical performance to increase over time as computers get more powerful. It is a mistake to associate that with an inexorable improvement in gameplay, writing, believability, or any other qualitative measure of a game.
I think this is why some people are disappointed in DAO. They expected something better in every way than what has gone before. I don't know why. When I go to the cinema I expect new and better special effects - and I usually see them - but I am routinely underwhelmed by the scripts, the directing, and often the acting. Games really aren't any different. Indeed, the constantly evolving technology requires more development effort simply to maintain quality, let alone improve on older games.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:16 .

[SheffSteel]

bah

Modifié par SheffSteel, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:15 .

[fro7k]

SheffSteel wrote...

Saying something is aimed at white males does not necessarily make one racist or sexist. If you think it does in this particular case, please reason that out and provide an argument justifying your position, rather than insulting people you disagree with,

As for the game.... it is what it is.

What could possibly make a game aimed at a skin colour?  If you think the game is aimed at a race you must think that that being of a certain race implies certain inherent character traits.

[fro7k]

I think the real litmus test for DA:O is how well it ages. I think Baldur's Gate 2 has a certain measure of timelessness to it; for a 9-year-old game it holds up well. I think people can have their judgement of a game coloured by thinking that as technology improves, the quality of the gameplay or the imagination or creativity the game exhibits must somehow have grown as well, which is often not the case. It seems to stand to reason that games should only get better if they're made by the same company, but oftentimes they get worse instead, and the originals are not improved upon. There're plenty of incredibly shallow games of any era, and some incredibly detailed "you can do anything" games from earlier generations. There's nothing crude or primitive about a game just because it is old. The _only_ guarrantee is that the graphics will be worse (but BG graphics aren't bad, they're merely 2D).



I'd like to see an update of BG in similar vein to what they did with the Secret of Monkey Island remake. Instead of trying to shoehorn it into a 3D engine, which WILL look dated in a few years time no matter which engine you go with, improve on the 2D which is a technology that is maxed out. 3D isn't inherently superior to 2D anyway and 2D served BG very well.

[SinYang]

If Baldurs Gate was remade tomorrow by bioware... you would still get alot of unhappy players

Oh Imoen's hair turned red... its meant to be pink :S
2D is better than 3D..

Besides why does every game have to be either... number 1 or 2, both exist and both are great.. it is my opinion solely that DA is an improvement over BG. If the sequels manage to maintain what we have yet add more story/plots.. then ill be very happy indeed.

NWN2 also promised to improve on NWN1... it failed to do that completely imo.. i dont even consider it a game at all.. just a collection of areas you had to move through in order - character models were also plain ugly, multiplayer was a dead weight.

Modifié par SinYang, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:34 .

[SheffSteel]

fro7k wrote...
What could possibly make a game aimed at a skin colour?  If you think the game is aimed at a race you must think that that being of a certain race implies certain inherent character traits.

No.
Let's say that Joe Marketroid is trying to sell the game to black people. Unfortunately, Joe's sensibilities are stuck in the 70's, so he commissions a series of TV ads featuring black guys with huge afro haircuts, tight spandex pants and purple button-down shirts with massive collars, strutting about to funk music. Joe does this because he thinks that that it what appeals to black people. These are Joe's prejudices, not mine. I can point at Joe's ignorance and prejudice, without being ignorant or prejudiced myself. Indeed, I would be less likely to point this out at all if my world view coincided with Joe's.

That's a somewhat ridiculous example from the world of marketing, but people can make equally stereotypical and ignorant decisions at every stage in the game development process. Pointing and saying "that's wrong" doesn't make you wrong.

[blondesolid]

MerinTB wrote...

You know what else ruins the experience?

Seeing a trailer like Sacred Ashes and expecting gameplay to actually be like that.

Yup, after reading this I stopped reading the thread, it is the end  all arguments DA:O wise lol

[BlueEyes_Austin]

The big issue I have with BG now isn't 2D v. 3D...its how limiting the user interface is compared to modern interfaces.

[Silo99]

marshalleck wrote...

Baldur's Gate: 90% nostalgia

In that case I've played the nastolgia 4 times. I have recommended the nostalgia more times than I can count. I still love the nostalgia,and  I just started a 5th playthrough for the awesome nostalgia. We can call it nostalgia if you like. Unfortunately, I've never played another game since the BG series that became nostalgic.

Modifié par Silo99, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:56 .

[fro7k]

Let's say that Joe Marketroid is trying to sell the game to black people

Well that's all you need to know.  One should market to people.

[purplesunset]

blondesolid wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

You know what else ruins the experience?

Seeing a trailer like Sacred Ashes and expecting gameplay to actually be like that.

Yup, after reading this I stopped reading the thread, it is the end  all arguments DA:O wise lol

Woops, you shouldn't have stopped reading !  For 13 posts down on the same page, I went into more detail as to why there exists such a disjunct between  what you see in the trailers and the actual gameplay.

I should add, however, that the marketing people were just doing their job (as sleazy as it might seem), and it is the customer's fault for basing his purchase solely on a trailer. The customer must do more research, read a wide variety of reviews, watch gameplay videos etc. if he/she wants to make an informed decision.

Modifié par purplesunset, 01 décembre 2009 - 05:11 .