149 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

purplesunset wrote...

blondesolid wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

You know what else ruins the experience?

Seeing a trailer like Sacred Ashes and expecting gameplay to actually be like that.

Yup, after reading this I stopped reading the thread, it is the end  all arguments DA:O wise lol

Woops, you shouldn't have stopped reading !  For 13 posts down on the same page, I went into more detail as to why there exists such a disjunct between  what you see in the trailers and the actual gameplay.

I should add, however, that the marketing people were just doing their job (as sleazy as it might seem), and it is the customer's fault for basing his purchase solely on a trailer. The customer must do more research, read a wide variety of reviews, watch gameplay videos etc. if he/she wants to make an informed decision.

Poo.  It was a cinematic created to attract interest in a game.  Games have always done this since you could get graphics to look cool.
Marvel Ultimate Aliiance - not that old, but it has cinematic scenes far in excess of the actual gameplay.
Final Fantasy's - remember the "pure romance" ad campaign for FF8?
Starcraft - they look date now, sure, but they were the height at their time, those cinematics
any Lucasarts game from the computer adventure gaming time - check out the cut scenes for Full Throttle or Day of the Tentacle and the look at what gameplay looks like

Anyone who trusts an ad to tell them what they are getting deserves a shamwow, some homeopathic medicine, all their money invested in gold and opening night tickets to New Moon.

[Drake Sigar]

fro7k wrote...

Let's say that Joe Marketroid is trying to sell the game to black people

Well that's all you need to know.  One should market to people.

Not really. There's a target audience for many products. Twilight is aimed at teenage girls for example. There's a teenage culture, an Internet culture, black culture, gaming culture, religious culture, etc (Christian Rock ugh). And they'll always be someone advertising a product for a specific group. Unless they pack it full of negative stereotypes, what's the problem?

Modifié par Drake Sigar, 01 décembre 2009 - 05:52 .

[ushae]

I wonder how well a recreation of Baldurs Gate series would have done ? Hmm

But lets be fair here, DA is amazing in its redefining of combat mechanics gameplay. I admit BG2 still has the crown for storytelling, but Da isn't far off. There's always room for sequals.

[SheffSteel]

fro7k wrote...

Let's say that Joe Marketroid is trying to sell the game to black people

Well that's all you need to know.  One should market to people.

But by your logic, if you think I'm racist then you're a racist too.

[Cream_Poof]

I'm kinda glad I never played BG2 cos maybe I would compare the two games. After reading so much about the game on this forum though I was actually tempted to download it, but I just can't face playing something that would now appear so dated. Then again, if the gameplay really is all that, maybe it's still worth playing today...dunno.

[adam_nox]

Wolfva2 wrote...

I think people bring up BG2 so often is because it had an emotional impact. I mean, some of the story arcs just punched you in the gut.

I'm sure it really seems like that since you were a kid when you played it.

[Dark83]

MerinTB wrote...

And Deus Ex - what is with all the Deus Ex love?  I had a friend who couldn't stop talking about that game.  Granted, I only tried the sequel (which is probably a mistake) but I know fairly quickly that it wasn't my kind of game.

You have no basis upon which to judge Deus Ex. Invisible War was a piece of **** that nobody acknowledges existed.

Venthiros wrote...
Who do you think the target audience of 50
Cent Blood on the sand is targeted toward?

Middle-Upper class
White boys from the suburbs who nonetheless are all about "keeping it
real" with "their homies" with misfitted pants and delusions of squalor?

PS: What Baldur's Gate 2 has over DA:O is sheer quantity of (quality) content and dialog. In spite of what the wanna-be illiterate action crowd may want, unique dialog creates a rich backdrop to wander around in. The most "immersive" RPG system remains P&P, and it's all talk there.
...of course, BG2 has so much stuff that I tend to be burned out before ever finishing a playthrough. I must have done Chapters 1-3 at least twenty times without getting past Chapter 4. I don't know if I ever got past Spellhold...

[Legion-001]

adam_nox wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

I think people bring up BG2 so often is because it had an emotional impact. I mean, some of the story arcs just punched you in the gut.

I'm sure it really seems like that since you were a kid when you played it.

I played it just last week and it still has a lot of emotional impact.

[adam_nox]

MerinTB wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

blondesolid wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

You know what else ruins the experience?

Seeing a trailer like Sacred Ashes and expecting gameplay to actually be like that.

Yup, after reading this I stopped reading the thread, it is the end  all arguments DA:O wise lol

Woops, you shouldn't have stopped reading !  For 13 posts down on the same page, I went into more detail as to why there exists such a disjunct between  what you see in the trailers and the actual gameplay.

I should add, however, that the marketing people were just doing their job (as sleazy as it might seem), and it is the customer's fault for basing his purchase solely on a trailer. The customer must do more research, read a wide variety of reviews, watch gameplay videos etc. if he/she wants to make an informed decision.

Poo.  It was a cinematic created to attract interest in a game.  Games have always done this since you could get graphics to look cool.
Final Fantasy's - remember the "pure romance" ad campaign for FF8?

No offense but ur dumb. In other games FMV sequences actually happened at some point during your actual gameplay, and did not just exist as marketing materials as in DA.

[DragonRageGT]

Volourn wrote...

DA > BG2

signed!

[adam_nox]

Legion-001 wrote...

adam_nox wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

I think people bring up BG2 so often is because it had an emotional impact. I mean, some of the story arcs just punched you in the gut.

I'm sure it really seems like that since you were a kid when you played it.

I played it just last week and it still has a lot of emotional impact.

Yes but that wasn't the first time you played it.  What you feel is just an echo from your previous experiences.  You aren't unique, this is how it works.  Certain things just get embedded into people's brains and they worship them above all else until the end of time, during a certain point in a young person's life.

[Legion-001]

adam_nox wrote...

Legion-001 wrote...

adam_nox wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

I think people bring up BG2 so often is because it had an emotional impact. I mean, some of the story arcs just punched you in the gut.

I'm sure it really seems like that since you were a kid when you played it.

I played it just last week and it still has a lot of emotional impact.

Yes but that wasn't the first time you played it.  What you feel is just an echo from your previous experiences.  You aren't unique, this is how it works.  Certain things just get embedded into people's brains and they worship them above all else until the end of time, during a certain point in a young person's life.

No I was 19 When I first played BG2 hardly a kid the emotional impact comes from having consistently believable party members, and a high quality game... It's not Nostalgia if you've played the game recently.
For me DA:O feels far too 'shut in' none of the choices you make in the game really have much in the way of consequences and it seems as if you're just following a linear script or a set of rails with no choice in real direction, people don't react to your characters actions in the least steal whatever you please, kill whoever you like, race through town with an army of bandits chasing you no-one will even care. It's like the cities aren't really alive, although the people may 'look' like people they actually little more than talking points there only to make a statement or offer a quest and that's it, this game has no soul to it and that's something that BG and BG2 had in abundence, LIFE.
Even the 'random' encounters are scripted and pre-set, there isn't really anything random about this game in the least and to gain approval just shower your party members with cheap gifts, it isn't like that in the Baldur's Gate series. Add to this the fact that DA:O has so few items and the back stories of said items are so short and really it's just another RPG.

Modifié par Legion-001, 01 décembre 2009 - 06:52 .

[MerinTB]

I was in my twenties when I played BG2 (bought the CE when it came out - very cool box!) and had a blast with the game.

I've restarted it twice since then, but never "finished" it - one time with an evil cleric that got to the start of Throne of Bhaal, and another time with a bunch of mods added to the game and I don't think I made it half-way through the Amn storyline.

It was fun in its day, and in many ways revolutionary, and I'll always appreciate what it brought to gaming -
but it's failed to be that replayable for me - my memory of it is always higher than my experience trying to replay it.
That said, at least it was 2nd Edition D&D rules.

Modifié par MerinTB, 01 décembre 2009 - 07:24 .

[MerinTB]

adam_nox wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

purplesunset wrote...

blondesolid wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

You know what else ruins the experience?

Seeing a trailer like Sacred Ashes and expecting gameplay to actually be like that.

Yup, after reading this I stopped reading the thread, it is the end  all arguments DA:O wise lol

Woops, you shouldn't have stopped reading !  For 13 posts down on the same page, I went into more detail as to why there exists such a disjunct between  what you see in the trailers and the actual gameplay.

I should add, however, that the marketing people were just doing their job (as sleazy as it might seem), and it is the customer's fault for basing his purchase solely on a trailer. The customer must do more research, read a wide variety of reviews, watch gameplay videos etc. if he/she wants to make an informed decision.

Poo.  It was a cinematic created to attract interest in a game.  Games have always done this since you could get graphics to look cool.
Final Fantasy's - remember the "pure romance" ad campaign for FF8?

No offense but ur dumb. In other games FMV sequences actually happened at some point during your actual gameplay, and did not just exist as marketing materials as in DA.

No offense but I'm dumb?  Thanks, I guess I'll actually take offense at being called dumb.
Offense intended, but you are missing the point.  Either purposefully because you have an agenda, or because you have a comprehension problem.  You decide which it is.

Do you know what FMV is?  It's actually recordings of live people.  Games like Voyeur and Wing Commanders 3 & 4 used FMV, a staple of many games in the mid-90s.  It's not really done anymore (C&C had Wurher, I think) - and it is not the same thing as CGI scenes.  Your ignorance on what FMV actually means suggests that maybe you shouldn't argue with people whom you clearly are not understanding.

All the examples I gave were of games using cut scenes created via computer graphics, not video of live actors, that were not representative of the graphics or style of gameplay.  If you saw the ads for FF8 and the CGI of the scenes shown and then played the game you may well be extremely disappointed that the gameplay is nowhere near that quality.

If someone showed the intro to Starcraft or Full Throttle and expected the game to look like that they would be very disappointed.

The difference between the ads for DAO and the non-FF8 examples I gave were that the sequences created for the ads were not also used in the game.  Big deal.  If they had tagged the Sacred Ashes trailer at the front of the game, you know before the options screen before you start the game (like MUA, like the ONLY REAL story element of L4D) would that have been that much of a difference?

The ads for MUA and MUA2 used the cut scens that in no way looked like gameplay.  Big deal.

My point was if you buy any game based only on ads (or anything for that matter, be it a movie, book or house cleaning product), you are likely to be disappointed if you believe the sales pitch verbatim.

[SheffSteel]

To be fair, FMV may be used to refer to any pre-rendered cutscene material. While that usage is debatable, it's understandable that some gamers have only seen it, and not the older more precise usage to refer only to live action video.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Volourn wrote...

DA > BG2

I'd say DAO = BG2.

DAO < BG, though

[Dark83]

Bah, ignorance is no excuse.
Speaking of which, what's MUA?

(L4D's "story" tends to unfold around the graffiti anyways, with character development occuring through their comments. Granted, there's more character development in L4D2, which can be seen in how they talk to each other in the different episodes.)

[Dark83]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Volourn wrote...

DA > BG2

I'd say DAO = BG2.

DAO < BG, though

But BG2 > BG1!

[MerinTB]

SheffSteel wrote...

To be fair, FMV may be used to refer to any pre-rendered cutscene material. While that usage is debatable, it's understandable that some gamers have only seen it, and not the older more precise usage to refer only to live action video.

This - http://en.wikipedia....ll_motion_video
This - http://www.pcguide.c...f/video/fmv.htm
This - http://fmvworld.com/
This - http://www.sega-16.c...ll Motion Video

Now maybe some people are misusing FMV to mean any pre-rendered scenes, but that's just misuse of language.  Will the language change to fit that wrong definition?  Maybe - I remember when "gang-banger" didn't mean a kid acting like a thug.


I can find many misuses of the term online easily, so yes many people are misusing the term - but Full Motion Video is not the same as Pre-Rendered CGI.

And, honestly, that would seem a nit-pick of what I meant -
EXCEPT that many games had FMV as part of the ACTUAL GAMEPLAY.   All of Voyeur, many of the dialog option scenes in the Wing Commander games, all of Under A Killing Moon, all of Phantasmagoria, etc.   The FMV was the gameplay.

So I'm not just being pedantic - I was talking about something other than what the responder brought up.

[SheffSteel]

Just trying to explain a communication problem. Sorry if it seemed like a nitpick.

On topic, don't the C&C and Red Alert games have lots of FMV cutscenes?
Guaranteed to be shown in TV ads, and nothing like the gameplay.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 01 décembre 2009 - 08:00 .

[CarlSpackler]

Different strokes for different folks. Allow me to add my voice to the "I love DAO" crowd. I admired BG2, its ambition, its story, etc. But for pure "fun" KOTOR has been my fav Bioware game. Its hard to say if DAO will replace KOTOR, won't know probably for a couple years, another playthrough but I can honestly say this engaged me more emotionally than any game since KOTOR. While I liked BG2, Planescape, and the original Fallout, I was always more of an old school Ultima fan. Doubtful any game will be able to surplant those due to nostalgia alone(or older sierra quest games for that matter ), still DAO was a more enjoyable gaming experience for me than any of the Infinity Engine games (heh I realize that is near sacrelige here.) But as I said, different strokes can move the world... er something along those lines.

Modifié par CarlSpackler, 01 décembre 2009 - 08:04 .

[MerinTB]

SheffSteel wrote...

Just trying to explain a communication problem. Sorry if it seemed like a nitpick.

On topic, don't the C&C and Red Alert games have lots of FMV cutscenes?
Guaranteed to be shown in TV ads, and nothing like the gameplay.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't have reacted so harshly had the kid not called me "dumb" and implied that I didn't know what I was talking about when he, clearly ...

Yeah, C&C loves the misleading ads.  The FMV scenes in C&C have nothing to do with gameplay - they are corny, cheesy, and a little fun though.  Sometimes.

[Kaosgirl]

deathwing200 wrote...

fro7k wrote...

14-17 year old white males

Racist.

You're honestly retarded.

Ableist
.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Dark83 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Volourn wrote...

DA > BG2

I'd say DAO = BG2.

DAO < BG, though

But BG2 > BG1!

I disagree entirely, in almost every respect.

[DragonRageGT]

I love some of the FMV in some games...
Prince Arthas's Betrayal in Warcraft 3 is simply epic!

"What are you doing, my son?"... "Succeeding you, father!" .. that's a good sig too.. lol

if you don't own the game... don't buy based on the cinematics... it's a simple RTS...  not action rpg as the movie might show.. lol

Modifié par RageGT, 02 décembre 2009 - 12:40 .