79 réponses à ce sujet

[swjobson]

For a four man team with one Salarian Engineer, the best position is to have two seperate two-man squads. One pair goes to the west end of Lower Level and the other should be just north of that on the Launch Ramp. This will prevent mobs from spawning near or behind the entire team.

The Salarian Engineer should be in position on the west side of the big dark crate on Lower Level, next to the door that leads in/out of the control room. From there the Salarian can pop out and place a Decoy right where all of the enemies will walk by and be the first to strike with Energy Drain. The biggest threat to the Engineer will be Hunters coming out of the control room but ignore the Decoy or enemies that come down the ladder from of the Landing Pad.

His squad mate should stay farther west, either behind the ammo box or the waist-high barricade wall. It really doesn't matter who this player is because they will get easy kills for the whole mission due to the Decoy and Energy Drain. I personally prefer that this player be an Infiltrator in case something happens to me, they can easily Cloak and pick me up.

The other pair should be in the corner of the Launching Ramp where another ammo box is. This gives them a clear view through the control room to the stairs leading up from the Lower Level. Whoever is using weapons that only have a handful of extra magazines should be here because the ammo box is more accessible from this position than the one on the Lower Level. Carinfex Adepts or Widow Infiltrators are the best choices.

The real trick is making sure that the Engineer stays alive for the whole time, because if he dies then the setup is ruined. Team mates at the Launching Ramp have a protected path that will take them straight to the Engineer's position, but only one should leave at a time to make sure that mobs don't spawn in the control room.

All other methods of playing on this map are inferior.

[stu_]

OH it's you again..

Moaning.

AGAIN

[eldrjth]

stu_ wrote...

OH it's you again..

Moaning.

AGAIN

I dont sing praise when I post, thats pointless.

--

just had another match and the same thing happens. what the 2 dopes downstairs dont realise is that its not easy to fend off units at the top area if one person dies, say to a lone hunter/pyro that makes his way to the top (which one will inevitably). its not efficient to have one person survey the landing pad and another to clear the main strip that spawns many difficult units such as hunters/prime/pyros/rocket troopers. so while the unit composition and quantity could be slightly less, its harder for the guys on top to hold that area compared to the 2 guys at the base who can focus soley on units in one direction of attack, directly infront, and also have decoys set up to avoid taking damage. where is this protection for the dps'ers? 

seems like both squads are prone to getting wiped, since if a single player falls it leaves that flank vulnerable (and the engineers in the building are prone to getting wiped too), and reviving by cloaking out is not as effective as it was, nor is it when a guy falls during a large battle. dont expect one of the guys on top to revive anyone at the bottom since theyre too preoccupied watching 3 areas effectively: the landing pad, units in the far distance and those that might appear right on top of the ladder.

the only adv of this is the engineers in the building can bolster their score while entering auto-pilot.

Modifié par eldrjth, 25 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[Duranndal]

I never understood why players constantly take up the worst positions possible on all the maps.
"Hey guys lets set up where we can get attacked from all 4 directions and the enemy will have plenty of cover while coming at us!"

People take the downstairs position because it prevents hostiles from spawning on the stairs or ladder and flanking the team.. Its also a very easily defended chokepoint. Almost anywhere else on the entire map would be a better place to defend from than that 4 way crossroads upstairs.

I'm so sorry you can't figure out that the dudes downstairs are doing just fine but you're dying like crazy upstairs. HMMMM I WONDER WHY THAT IS.

[eldrjth]

where did you get the idea from that I was dying like crazy? its harder for 2 ppl to handle 2 flanks than it is for 2 ppl to handle one (I could take the bottom flank with decoy assistance easily and on my own while top scoring as engineer, but the decoy is better served at the base of the ladder holding up the main force, even though you may take a hit points wise). its from countless games that ive played on that map that I based my comments on, and I rarely get topped kill/point wise. in fact last few games I played I got around 150k XP (my score) without random xp boost. the games that fail to finish is from having the two engineers in the building and no crowd control on top. where did that strat originate? its terrible and prone to squad wipes.

[eldrjth]

Duranndal wrote...


People take the downstairs position because it prevents hostiles from spawning on the stairs or ladder and flanking the team.. Its also a very easily defended chokepoint. Almost anywhere else on the entire map would be a better place to defend from than that 4 way crossroads upstairs.

I'm so sorry you can't figure out that the dudes downstairs are doing just fine but you're dying like crazy upstairs. HMMMM I WONDER WHY THAT IS.

to directly quote you, no, having 2 ppl in the building doesnt prvent hostiles from climbing the ladder. its does exactly the opposite. my point is they are dealing with ONE flank only. where as ONE single engineer usually can hold up the MAIN force alone at the base of the ladder. now thats already a loss of efficiency and dps right there. even if we do clear the round its nowhere near as safe/easy as it were with the other strat.

[Duranndal]

eldrjth wrote...

Duranndal wrote...


People take the downstairs position because it prevents hostiles from spawning on the stairs or ladder and flanking the team.. Its also a very easily defended chokepoint. Almost anywhere else on the entire map would be a better place to defend from than that 4 way crossroads upstairs.

I'm so sorry you can't figure out that the dudes downstairs are doing just fine but you're dying like crazy upstairs. HMMMM I WONDER WHY THAT IS.

to directly quote you, no, having 2 ppl in the building doesnt prvent hostiles from climbing the ladder. its does exactly the opposite. my point is they are dealing with ONE flank only. where as ONE single engineer usually can hold up the MAIN force alone at the base of the ladder. now thats already a loss of efficiency and dps right there. even if we do clear the round its nowhere near as safe/easy as it were with the other strat.

Wait, what?  You didn't directly quote me...   ???  I never said anything about "preventing hostiles from climbing the ladder."  Do you know what "directly quoting" means?  This has almost nothing to do with the ladder.  The point is, in that outside/upstairs position, you're getting attacked from all sides.  You can literally get attacked from a full 360 degrees at any time.  In basically any strategy or FPS video game I can think of (not to mention in real life combat situations), this is what we commonly refer to as "being stupid."  I really can't think of a worse place on the map to be, except maybe the landing pad, since enemies hop up right behind/next to you.  Move the team inside.  The entire building is basically one big chokepoint.  I do it all the time with organized groups and with pugs.  When we don't get that one retard who absolutely refuses to go anywhere besides the upstairs "crossroads," its basically a free gold game.  11 waves no deaths, 20 minute games all the time every time.  You can easily shave 6 minutes off of that by moving the team to the double L desks further inside, if you have a good composition.

tldr: everyone inside the building = vastly superior strategy.  Faster clear times, no messy situations, no deaths.

Modifié par Duranndal, 25 mars 2012 - 08:25 .

[aimlessgun]

Upstairs top of the ladder is fine if you do it correctly. As long as someone holds down the inside route and someone keeps a close eye on the landing pad, it's smooth sailing.

That top of ladder position is ridiculously strong. A single sentinel/adept can hold the main advance vs Geth.

Problem is objectives, but that's an issue no matter where you set up, if the RNG gods dislike you.

Modifié par aimlessgun, 25 mars 2012 - 08:22 .

[eldrjth]

Duranndal wrote...


Wait, what?  You didn't directly quote me...   ???  I never said anything about "preventing hostiles from climbing the ladder."  Do you know what "directly quoting" means?  This has almost nothing to do with the ladder.  The point is, in that outside/upstairs position, you're getting attacked from all sides.  You can literally get attacked from a full 360 degrees at any time.  In basically any strategy or FPS video game I can think of (not to mention in real life combat situations), this is what we commonly call "being stupid."  I really can't think of a worse place on the map to be, except maybe the landing pad, since enemies hop up right behind/next to you.  Move the team inside.  The entire building is basically one big chokepoint.  I do it all the time with organized groups and with pugs.  When we don't get that one retard who absolutely refuses to go anywhere besides the upstairs "crossroads," its basically a free gold game.  11 waves no deaths, 20 minute games all the time every time.

the first post didnt quote you the second did. hard to understand right? just like the strat I detailed that has one salarian engineer at the base of the ladder and is superior to the dumbarse hybrid strat that doesnt really work well in a pug situation nor is it better in an organised match. ived cleared a pub match in 18:37 using the outside rather than inside the building approach, which delays the time you react to enemy spawn too. you can headshot troopers as they land and are no threat, not the case when youre in an enclosed area and are susceptible to aoe attacks pyros/hunters. like I said it favours only the dumbarse engineers inside the building that cant hack it in sniping.

you can also hull down primes in the top location. you cant do that inside the building either.

Modifié par eldrjth, 25 mars 2012 - 08:28 .

[Duranndal]

eldrjth wrote...

Duranndal wrote...


Wait, what?  You didn't directly quote me...   ???  I never said anything about "preventing hostiles from climbing the ladder."  Do you know what "directly quoting" means?  This has almost nothing to do with the ladder.  The point is, in that outside/upstairs position, you're getting attacked from all sides.  You can literally get attacked from a full 360 degrees at any time.  In basically any strategy or FPS video game I can think of (not to mention in real life combat situations), this is what we commonly call "being stupid."  I really can't think of a worse place on the map to be, except maybe the landing pad, since enemies hop up right behind/next to you.  Move the team inside.  The entire building is basically one big chokepoint.  I do it all the time with organized groups and with pugs.  When we don't get that one retard who absolutely refuses to go anywhere besides the upstairs "crossroads," its basically a free gold game.  11 waves no deaths, 20 minute games all the time every time.

the first post didnt quote you the second did. hard to understand right? just like the strat I detailed that has one salarian engineer at the base of the ladder and is superior to the dumbarse hybrid strat that doesnt really work well in a pug situation nor is it better in an organised match. ived cleared a pub match in 18:37 using the outside rather than inside the building approach, which delays the time you react to enemy spawn too. you can headshot troopers as they land and are no threat, not the case when youre in an enclosed area and are susceptible to aoe attacks pyros/hunters. like I said it favours only the dumbarse engineers inside the building that cant hack it in sniping.

you can also hull down primes in the top location. you cant do that inside the building either.

You are literally not reading my posts.  Your second post said "
to directly quote you, no, having 2 ppl in the building doesnt prvent hostiles from climbing the ladder " but I never said anything of the sort?

I never said anything about a "hybrid strategy."

Anyways, I've done all kinds of strats on that map.  In fact, most of the time we DO have everybody up in the outside crossroads.  I've cleared it plenty of times up there (and with -gasp- the top score almost every time... which I find funny that you for some reason referenced, since you were just barely decrying the engineers for point-whoring... lol)

Setting up the team inside is hands down the better strategy.  Doesn't matter what class you are.  I've cleared gold matches inside in 16 minutes with infiltrator/sniper, soldier, adept, sentinel... you name it.  Team splitting up with 2 different strategies = fail.  I agree with you.  What you are somehow not getting is that the "crossroads" upstairs position is just a bad position/strategy in almost all cases.  Can it be done with the right people?  Sure!  I've done it plenty.  But its also the strategy that fails the most.

Modifié par Duranndal, 25 mars 2012 - 08:42 .

[killnoob]

you mad? lol
deal with it

[eldrjth]

you said prevent spawn at the ladder. I have no idea what that means other than units climbing it. what the fk do you mean?

also I mentioned I topped scored almost all the time in reference to you saying I was dying like crazy in the top position. and engineers sometimes score 100k (literally) less than me (and also less than other infiltrators) since I/they kill so much quicker that engineers want to find another location that doesnt clear as quick and favours they ability spam more.

I actually doubt your clear times. 20 mins flat with 4 ppl inside the building since Ive seen how terrible the aoe damage engineers output is (in comparison to biotic explosions and) compared to 4 sal/qua infil with their cloak/SD aoe.

--

also the area you keep referring to as a 4 way intersection is actually only 3. and one of the paths in completely blocked off by a sal engineer who has vision inside the building too from the bottom of the ladder position. you as a team have better map awareness as well as more cover/more opportunity to shoot back since you can hull-down units. and can rez easier.

Modifié par eldrjth, 25 mars 2012 - 08:53 .

[Duranndal]

eldrjth wrote...

you said prevent spawn at the ladder. I have no idea what that means other than units climbing it. what the fk do you mean?

also I mentioned I topped scored almost all the time in reference to you saying I was dying like crazy in the top position. and engineers sometimes score 100k (literally) less than me (and also less than other infiltrators) since I/they kill so much quicker that engineers want to find another location that doesnt clear as quick and favours they ability spam more.

I actually doubt your clear times. 20 mins flat with 4 ppl inside the building since Ive seen how terrible the aoe damage engineers output is (in comparison to biotic explosions and) compared to 4 sal/qua infil with their cloak/SD aoe.

--

also the area you keep referring to as a 4 way intersection is actually only 3. and one of the paths in completely blocked off by a sal engineer who has vision inside the building too from the bottom of the ladder position. you as a team have better map awareness as well as more cover/more opportunity to shoot back since you can hull-down units. and can rez easier.

Alright, there's clearly some communication errors here.  You're either not reading what I'm writing, or you're assuming much different things than what I'm writing.  I'm not saying half the things you say that I'm saying.

I never once said anything about strategies involving engineers, nor did I say anything about climbing ladders.

Here is all that I am saying:

The upstairs crossroads intersection (it is technically 4 ways: the ladder, the path directly to the landing pad, the back path to the landing pad [which enemies sometimes take e.g. phantoms], and the stairs down into the building) is a bad position for the vast majority of scenarios and team compositions.  Its probably the most convenient for snipers/infiltrators, since your targets are far off and you have plenty of time and opportunity to pick a target - makes it extremely easy to snipe.  Which is probably why you're getting top score.  Thats where I usually get top score as infiltrator.

Setting up inside the building, however, is strategically superior.  You are funneling the enemy through 1 or 2 chokepoints, making AoE extremely easy and efficient.  The way the spawn points are set up (locale and FoV, etc) means that the enemy will spawn closer to you as well, making the runs go faster.  class type is fairly irrelevant (unlike the crossroads strategy where infiltrators and sal engy are requirements), but combo biotics are a fairly easy go-to.  I've been in a in-doors clear (pretty sure it was under 20 min) that was 3 infiltrator and 1 soldier.  0 deaths.

My beef is with people who stubbornly refuse to leave the upstairs crossroads position, even when everybody else has set up elsewhere.  Its hugely telling when its easy for 1 person to hold downstairs, but 1 person in the "crossroads" alone is constantly dying.... as has been my experience time after time after time...  Its just overall a bad position unless the entire team sets up around there just so the infiltrator can be safe and get his kills/points.

Modifié par Duranndal, 25 mars 2012 - 11:21 .

[GGW KillerTiger]

 Love how your post answers your own question. Hey engineers why do you play smart and go down to the area where enemies can only come at you 2 ways instead of coming at you from 3+ ways? ..... Uh think about it?

[TeamLexana]

Drummernate wrote...

Just because people finally learned to set up defenseive positions does not mean they need to change the decoy, map, or enemy AI.

Yup.

[eldrjth]

Duranndal wrote...

Alright, there's clearly some communication errors here. You're either not reading what I'm writing, or you're assuming much different things than what I'm writing. I'm not saying half the things you say that I'm saying.

I never once said anything about strategies involving engineers, nor did I say anything about climbing ladders.

Duranndal wrote...

People take the downstairs position because it prevents hostiles from spawning on the stairs or ladder and flanking the team..

jez. why do I have to quote thing you say only a few post ago. you mention it prevents hostiles from spawning at the ladder. NO it doesnt. units that climb the ladder present the biggest challenge for the guys on the top (apart from the rocket troopers), and having an engineer at the bottom is invaluable both in protecting the players at the top and also have less 'down-time' where they take cover and cant shoot. the fastest clear times ive had was when a sal engineer takes that position.

Duranndal wrote...
Here is all that I am saying:

The upstairs crossroads intersection (it is technically 4 ways: the ladder, the path directly to the landing pad, the back path to the landing pad [which enemies sometimes take e.g. phantoms], and the stairs down into the building) is a bad position for the vast majority of scenarios and team compositions. Its probably the most convenient for snipers/infiltrators, since your targets are far off and you have plenty of time and opportunity to pick a target - makes it extremely easy to snipe. Which is probably why you're getting top score. Thats where I usually get top score as infiltrator.

Setting up inside the building, however, is strategically superior. You are funneling the enemy through 1 or 2 chokepoints, making AoE extremely easy and efficient. The way the spawn points are set up (locale and FoV, etc) means that the enemy will spawn closer to you as well, making the runs go faster. class type is fairly irrelevant (unlike the crossroads strategy where infiltrators and sal engy are requirements), but combo biotics are a fairly easy go-to. I've been in a in-doors clear (pretty sure it was under 20 min) that was 3 infiltrator and 1 soldier. 0 deaths.

My beef is with people who stubbornly refuse to leave the upstairs crossroads position, even when everybody else has set up elsewhere. Its hugely telling when its easy for 1 person to hold downstairs, but 1 person in the "crossroads" alone is constantly dying.... as has been my experience time after time after time... Its just overall a bad position unless the entire team sets up around there just so the infiltrator can be safe and get his kills/points.

technically 4 paths. but really no units come from the back since everybody is at the front of the intersection and no units flank there EVER. unless a guy decides he wants to snipe from the ammo rack at the rear. so no point counting a path no enemies take.

im not going to debate whether its faster to clear maps from inside or out of the building at this point, since I object to a split between 2 groups and its usually the engineer that runs to the inside area that imo is strategically worse and I already outlined the reasons I think that. everyone else remains outside.

I have the opposite opinion to your finial paragraph. its the lone engineer or the two that go into the building that compromise chances of success. I rarely if ever have incompletes when everyone is outside.

Modifié par eldrjth, 25 mars 2012 - 11:38 .

[eldrjth]

TeamLexana wrote...

Drummernate wrote...

Just because people finally learned to set up defenseive positions does not mean they need to change the decoy, map, or enemy AI.

Yup.

whats your fastest clear with the engineer using the inside of the building? I just had a 18:00 game by playing as engineer outside the main building in the location that I suggest engineers take:-



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[Duranndal]

eldrjth wrote...

Duranndal wrote...

Alright, there's clearly some communication errors here. You're either not reading what I'm writing, or you're assuming much different things than what I'm writing. I'm not saying half the things you say that I'm saying.

I never once said anything about strategies involving engineers, nor did I say anything about climbing ladders.

Duranndal wrote...

People take the downstairs position because it prevents hostiles from spawning on the stairs or ladder and flanking the team..

jez. why do I have to quote thing you say only a few post ago. you mention it prevents hostiles from spawning at the ladder. NO it doesnt. units that climb the ladder present the biggest challenge for the guys on the top (apart from the rocket troopers), and having an engineer at the bottom is invaluable both in protecting the players at the top and also have less 'down-time' where they take cover and cant shoot. the fastest clear times ive had was when a sal engineer takes that position.

Duranndal wrote...
Here is all that I am saying:

The upstairs crossroads intersection (it is technically 4 ways: the ladder, the path directly to the landing pad, the back path to the landing pad [which enemies sometimes take e.g. phantoms], and the stairs down into the building) is a bad position for the vast majority of scenarios and team compositions. Its probably the most convenient for snipers/infiltrators, since your targets are far off and you have plenty of time and opportunity to pick a target - makes it extremely easy to snipe. Which is probably why you're getting top score. Thats where I usually get top score as infiltrator.

Setting up inside the building, however, is strategically superior. You are funneling the enemy through 1 or 2 chokepoints, making AoE extremely easy and efficient. The way the spawn points are set up (locale and FoV, etc) means that the enemy will spawn closer to you as well, making the runs go faster. class type is fairly irrelevant (unlike the crossroads strategy where infiltrators and sal engy are requirements), but combo biotics are a fairly easy go-to. I've been in a in-doors clear (pretty sure it was under 20 min) that was 3 infiltrator and 1 soldier. 0 deaths.

My beef is with people who stubbornly refuse to leave the upstairs crossroads position, even when everybody else has set up elsewhere. Its hugely telling when its easy for 1 person to hold downstairs, but 1 person in the "crossroads" alone is constantly dying.... as has been my experience time after time after time... Its just overall a bad position unless the entire team sets up around there just so the infiltrator can be safe and get his kills/points.

technically 4 paths. but really no units come from the back since everybody is at the front of the intersection and no units flank there EVER. unless a guy decides he wants to snipe from the ammo rack at the rear. so no point counting a path no enemies take.

im not going to debate whether its faster to clear maps from inside or out of the building at this point, since I object to a split between 2 groups and its usually the engineer that runs to the inside area that imo is strategically worse and I already outlined the reasons I think that. everyone else remains outside.

I have the opposite opinion to your finial paragraph. its the lone engineer or the two that go into the building that compromise chances of success. I rarely if ever have incompletes when everyone is outside.

Like I said.  Spawning at the ladder.  Not climbing.  I never said anything about climbing.  I've stated that like 3 times now.  Why is the word "spawning" so hard to read/understand?

I wasn't just debating that clearing inside the building is faster - I'm saying that being inside the building is better in all aspects.  The engineers (or whoever else, doesn't matter the class) who go downstairs are playing smart.  Why should they set up in a clearly inferior position just to block enemies from getting to you so YOU can get more points?  Even if staying outside was as strategically sound as going inside, they would have just as much right being annoyed at you staying outside as you are at them for going inside.  So I fail to see why your argument has any validity even in your own eyes.

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

 Love how your post answers your own question. Hey engineers why do you play smart and go down to the area where enemies can only come at you 2 ways instead of coming at you from 3+ ways? ..... Uh think about it?

Couldn't have said it better myself. 

Besides, it has been proven in plenty of other threads that camping inside can produce around 15 minute clears no deaths with a variety of classes.  Your strategy is demanding a whole lot of very specific things out of a group of random strangers.  Loads of opportunity for failure.

You're probably annoying others a whole lot more than they're annoying you by stubbornly staying up in that spot when they go downstairs.  That said, its usually better to strick to 1 strategy rather than having 4 people try 2 different strategies, no matter how bad that strategy might be.

Modifié par Duranndal, 25 mars 2012 - 12:07 .

[Terraflare]

I have to agree with OP on this matter.

Holding the bottom bend with 1 + 1 engi is quite inefficient because many primes/pyros/heavy hitters will stack up on that decoy at the doorway and take forever to kill with just 2 people's dps. Often times this happens, as an SI on top i have to go down to the bend and help them clear after the top main assault way has stopped spawning.

Having one engineer at base of ladder, spawning the decoy in view of both main assault way spawns and far room spawns will lure EVERYTHING out of the building making it easy for 3 infiltrators to clear in record times. Landing pad spawns easily dealt with at the start of round with 1 dedicated infiltrator (usually me), and right room spawns (very occasionally) by someone keeping an eye out.

Duranndal you might have missed the part where he mentioned this is solely for GETH GOLD speed runs, where you dont have to worry about any back path/ weird spawns.Last night i did 2x geth gold runs with 3 infiltrators and 1 engi who knew what he was doing luring everything out to the ladder and we also cleared in 19 mins flat.

[Duranndal]

Terraflare wrote...

I have to agree with OP on this matter.

Holding the bottom bend with 1 + 1 engi is quite inefficient because many primes/pyros/heavy hitters will stack up on that decoy at the doorway and take forever to kill with just 2 people's dps. Often times this happens, as an SI on top i have to go down to the bend and help them clear after the top main assault way has stopped spawning.

Having one engineer at base of ladder, spawning the decoy in view of both main assault way spawns and far room spawns will lure EVERYTHING out of the building making it easy for 3 infiltrators to clear in record times. Landing pad spawns easily dealt with at the start of round with 1 dedicated infiltrator (usually me), and right room spawns (very occasionally) by someone keeping an eye out.

Duranndal you might have missed the part where he mentioned this is solely for GETH GOLD speed runs, where you dont have to worry about any back path/ weird spawns.Last night i did 2x geth gold runs with 3 infiltrators and 1 engi who knew what he was doing luring everything out to the ladder and we also cleared in 19 mins flat.

He never mentioned the geth at all - at least not on the first page, much less "solely for GETH GOLD."  I'm also talking about gold - cerb OR geth.  I think the inside strategy has even been done with reaper.  Also, the bottom spawns only get crowded/backed up if the people up top stay outside in the "crossroads."  If the person(s) up top go inside, everything goes quite quickly and smoothly.  So either the ppl downstairs change their strategy, or the ppl upstairs do.  I've already made my case, as have others, for setting up inside.

Modifié par Duranndal, 25 mars 2012 - 12:15 .

[eldrjth]

Duranndal wrote...

Like I said.  Spawning at the ladder.  Not climbing.  I never said anything about climbing.  I've stated that like 3 times now.  Why is the word "spawning" so hard to read/understand?

NO fking units EVER spawn there when youre outside. get that into your head. they CLIMB the ladder after stealthing into the location or walking in from the narrow unseen part mid-way down that corridor to the left.

 

Duranndal wrote... 
I wasn't just debating that clearing inside the building is faster - I'm saying that being inside the building is better in all aspects.  The engineers (or whoever else, doesn't matter the class) who go downstairs are playing smart.  Why should they set up in a clearly inferior position just to block enemies from getting to you so YOU can get more points?  Even if staying outside was as strategically sound as going inside, they would have just as much right being annoyed at you staying outside as you are at them for going inside.  So I fail to see why your argument has any validity even in your own eyes.

I know thats what youre saying ffs. Ive already presented a few reason why I dont think thats the case. the blocking of enemies allows you to AOE the guys next to the decoy. also noet enemies arrive in waves  close to one another anyway. theres really NO need to funnel the enemy as that is how they arrive. you have more fire power at your desposal when most of your team-mates can view all positions and attack without fear of retribution using LoS and hull-down. since youre on level ground (with really only one side cover location when looking into the control room) while also in a confined area inside the building youre open to Hunter ambushes and also rocket trooper/pyro/prime attacks. where are you going to run to when 2 primes attack the top and the bottom simultaneously? youre fk'ed. 

I posted a time that I completed that map in a public game. its faster than what can be acheived inside the building (unless you cobra rocket spam ffs). since youre always duckng for cover as your decoys attract aoe fire.

 

Duranndal wrote...  
Besides, it has been proven in plenty of other threads that camping inside can produce around 15 minute clears no deaths with a variety of classes.  Your strategy is demanding a whole lot of very specific things out of a group of random strangers.  Loads of opportunity for failure.

jeez. ALMOST everyone naturally stands in the outside position. it doesnt demand anything off them but you DEMAND they work as a team according to your strat. I only have to play sal engineer and stand in the location at the bottom of the ladderfor it to work.

Modifié par eldrjth, 25 mars 2012 - 12:20 .

[Terraflare]

Duranndal wrote...

Terraflare wrote...

I have to agree with OP on this matter.

Holding the bottom bend with 1 + 1 engi is quite inefficient because many primes/pyros/heavy hitters will stack up on that decoy at the doorway and take forever to kill with just 2 people's dps. Often times this happens, as an SI on top i have to go down to the bend and help them clear after the top main assault way has stopped spawning.

Having one engineer at base of ladder, spawning the decoy in view of both main assault way spawns and far room spawns will lure EVERYTHING out of the building making it easy for 3 infiltrators to clear in record times. Landing pad spawns easily dealt with at the start of round with 1 dedicated infiltrator (usually me), and right room spawns (very occasionally) by someone keeping an eye out.

Duranndal you might have missed the part where he mentioned this is solely for GETH GOLD speed runs, where you dont have to worry about any back path/ weird spawns.Last night i did 2x geth gold runs with 3 infiltrators and 1 engi who knew what he was doing luring everything out to the ladder and we also cleared in 19 mins flat.

He never mentioned the geth at all - at least not on the first page, much less "solely for GETH GOLD."  I'm also talking about gold - cerb OR geth.  I think the inside strategy has even been done with reaper.  Also, the bottom spawns only get crowded/backed up if the people up top stay outside in the "crossroads."  If the person(s) up top go inside, everything goes quite quickly and smoothly.  So either the ppl downstairs change their strategy, or the ppl upstairs do.  I've already made my case, as have others, for setting up inside.

Ah yes i went to recheck his post if he did mention GETH only. OP do you mean geth only? All your post you refer to using only geth mobs. I only do gold speed runs on geth though, way more straight forward for random pubs to follow (which is also OPs point i guess). For Cerb ive tried both tactics (all out vs all in) and all in i felt was SAFER but SLOWER. For geth all out was both SAFER and FASTER. Hope that clarifies.

[Duranndal]

eldrjth wrote...

Duranndal wrote...

Like I said.  Spawning at the ladder.  Not climbing.  I never said anything about climbing.  I've stated that like 3 times now.  Why is the word "spawning" so hard to read/understand?

NO fking units EVER spawn there when youre outside. get that into your head. they CLIMB the ladder after stealthing into the location or walking in from the narrow unseen part mid-way down that corridor to the left.

 

Duranndal wrote... 
I wasn't just debating that clearing inside the building is faster - I'm saying that being inside the building is better in all aspects.  The engineers (or whoever else, doesn't matter the class) who go downstairs are playing smart.  Why should they set up in a clearly inferior position just to block enemies from getting to you so YOU can get more points?  Even if staying outside was as strategically sound as going inside, they would have just as much right being annoyed at you staying outside as you are at them for going inside.  So I fail to see why your argument has any validity even in your own eyes.

I know thats what youre saying ffs. Ive already presented a few reason why I dont think thats the case. the blocking of enemies allows you to AOE the guys next to the decoy. also not enemies arrive in waves that sit close to one another anyway. theres really NO need to funnel the enemy as that is how they arrive. your have more fire power when most of your team-mates can view all positions and attack without retribution by LoS the enemy. since youre on level ground while also in a confined area inside the building youre open to Hunter ambushes and also rocket trooper/prime attacks. where are you going to run when 2 primes attack the top and the bottom simultaneously? youre fk'ed.

I posted a time that I completed that map in a public game. its faster than what can be acheived inside the building (unless you cobra rocket spam ffs). since youre always duckng for cover as your decoys attract aoe fire.

 

Duranndal wrote...  
Besides, it has been proven in plenty of other threads that camping inside can produce around 15 minute clears no deaths with a variety of classes.  Your strategy is demanding a whole lot of very specific things out of a group of random strangers.  Loads of opportunity for failure.

jeez. ALMOST everyone naturally stands in the outside position. it doesnt demand anything off them but you DEMAND they work as a team according to your strat. I only have to play sal engineer and stand in the location at the bottom of the ladderfor it to work.

I know they don't spawn there if you're above the ladder.  I never said they didn't.  Again, you're making stuff up about what I said.

Also, you clearly have not tried any kind of inside strategy.  You don't have any problems with hunters/pyros/primes/atlases/etc etc at all when inside.  They die too quickly.  That is the whole point of being inside is that everything only comes through a single and rarely a second entrance.  Even if they come from 2 entrances at the same time, there's so much firepower going into a small space that nothing survives in there for long.

Trying to convince you is pointless, since you're so stubborn and stuck on staying up in that terrible crossroads position where you require an infiltrator and sal engy every time.  But its pretty clear to anyone who has tried both strategies which one is better and more flexible.  Again, the "crossroads" is just a bad place to be in general.  People just set up there out of habit, nothing else.  Its the same as people setting up in bad positions in most of the other maps.

Modifié par Duranndal, 25 mars 2012 - 12:31 .

[eldrjth]

Terraflare wrote...


Ah yes i went to recheck his post if he did mention GETH only. OP do you mean geth only? All your post you refer to using only geth mobs. I only do gold speed runs on geth though, way more straight forward for random pubs to follow (which is also OPs point i guess). For Cerb ive tried both tactics (all out vs all in) and all in i felt was SAFER but SLOWER. For geth all out was both SAFER and FASTER. Hope that clarifies.

I play only against geth to farm for items, and only in pub matches. have almost maxed everything now. the manditory engineer half implies this though.

[Terraflare]

Yup i was thinking that as well cuz i do the same and i understand your points. Duranndal i think was trying to highlight why it would be better on cerb to stay inside, which i also agree might be possible. Outside is hard to manage with phantoms spawning on landing pads (without stasis).