79 réponses à ce sujet

[eldrjth]

I noticed in recent matches teams are now trying to play from the 2 desk area farthest from the landing pad in firebase white. its usually a sal engineer or 2 taking this position and exposing the back of anyone staying anywhere but near them. in this location you cant LoS easily or hull-down like in the top location. in fact you give your enemy that advantage, in that primes that spawn can hit you if you try to LoS using the back of the building. trying the wield a sniper in the enclosed area, behind a desk, that is being shook up by tech burst and prime-fire/rocket troopers is frustrating and ineffective. their dps drops about 50% (from having to shoot out of cover) while the sal engineers may increase slightly and is able to grab enemies that wouldve died in a matter of secs to sniper fire at the top.

I know this is a pub match and players really a free to try out strats and techniques but playing to this horrendous strat continuously is NOT fun and is prone to failure more often than the default location. when a new strat develops shouldnt it be BETTER than the previous ones?
 

Modifié par eldrjth, 01 avril 2012 - 03:52 .

[meteng]

Going down the stairs removes that as a spawn point so the defenders up the top will not get flanked. It also gives an opportunity to seriously thin out the lower room before they go outside. A QI with Sabotage can tear this area up.

[Sidney]

DevilDoc8404 wrote...

I normally take the downstairs area solo, or with another on gold.
1). I can choke up all the mobs that would flank the stairs.
2) I can fire out the second door at a lot of the targets you are.
3) the really tough mobs spawn there, and allows me more time retreating to kill, or hurt them. And/or get multiple bosses with a missile.

Or you can get banshee'd to death on the top. Your choice really. If two players can't hold the best ground on the map, then maybe those two need to get better.

I do similar. i sit at the top of those stairs until the wave is announced. That stops spawning in that room and then head down next to the ammo boxes. If you have grenades it is so easy to just toss grenades, grab more and keep throwing - until the box gives out.  Some foes will drive me out - banshees and Geth Primes - but then you fall back to the top of the first stairs. Fire from cover, fall back to the corner of the stairs, fall back up the stairs. That is a lot of firepower you can keep pouring on them. Plus, you give the snipers at the top a ton of warning about what is coming and when.

You can really shut down that room plus if there is a hack in there as there often is to can grab the hack and start defending it.

[thefiresidecat]

fafnir magnus wrote...

On white you don't want to be up top. go bottom in the room split with people behind the cover near the rear exit. enemies won't spawn back there, and everything funnels in right in front of you. 1 good decoy will hold down everything, allowing damage classes to set up headshots/combos. They probably just think you have a bad strategy, as sitting up top on anything but the actual landing pad allows you to instantly get outflanked by rocket troopers spawning on the landing pad, and even the landing pad itself can get overwhelmed since you're covering two firing lines and also have the ladder on the left side.


TL;DR they might have a better strat than you

This, all four people in the back room dominate that on white/geth. we've won game after game doing that (quickly, 22 minutes or so) that top area everyone wants to mob is a death trap. 

they don't come from behind as long as everyone stays in the room. they only come from two directions and it's very easy to defend. 

at least one decoy in the center between the two desks is required and drones help as well. 

Modifié par thefiresidecat, 01 avril 2012 - 04:29 .

[Highlord Heian]

Drummernate wrote...

eldrjth wrote...

I notice that the win rates drops significantly when you do that. this has only started happening recently. what is the reasoning behind this?

Then your teams must be terrible.

I did like 40 Gold runs yesterday and won every single time, in less than 30 minutes. (Fastest being 23:46).

You need Geth, Gold, FB: White.

1-2 engineers on the bottom table putting decoys in the middle.

1 Infiltrator to do hack objectives. Sitting kinda outside and to the right on the reversed L shaped cover, where he can snipe anyone coming from the landing pad zone.

1 Turian Sentinel to spam Chain Overload. Sitting on the L that can see the doorway clearly, but not the door leading to the middle room.


Just because people finally learned to set up defenseive positions does not mean they need to change the decoy, map, or enemy AI.

40 gold runs x approximately 30 minutes each = 20 hours played.

[eldrjth]

thefiresidecat wrote...

fafnir magnus wrote...

They probably just think you have a bad strategy, as sitting up top on anything but the actual landing pad allows you to instantly get outflanked by rocket troopers spawning on the landing pad, and even the landing pad itself can get overwhelmed since you're covering two firing lines and also have the ladder on the left side.


TL;DR they might have a better strat than you

This, all four people in the back room dominate that on white/geth. we've won game after game doing that (quickly, 22 minutes or so) that top area everyone wants to mob is a death trap. 

they don't come from behind as long as everyone stays in the room. they only come from two directions and it's very easy to defend. 

at least one decoy in the center between the two desks is required and drones help as well. 

the part in bold is why I created this thread in the first place. I dont think that the strat is better at all, even considering the points you mentioned and esp not for pub matches where players dont follow your strat to the letter and might end up in 2 groups. top and bottom (almost always guaranteed actually). when you mention the time you complete your runs it makes it even more dubious imo (since its slower).

--anyway--

the reason I bought this thread back is not the guy(s) around the bend, but now its the guys sitting in the farthest desk location.

rocket troopers present a prob only for very noobie groups really. after playing more than 10 gold matches in firebase white players should realise the threat presented by rocket troopers on the landing pad, and easily deal with them (since they have very low HP). in fact I can counter them on my own and no-one even knows they were there. 

BUT realise from the top location I can basically shot continously with little down time (made up of reloading my weapon) and with little threat of return fire (from any enemies like primes/rocket troopers/hunters etc.) so any location that doesnt provide that adv. is inferior.

the reason why the top of the ladder position is so safe is because it offers protection in the form of distance (not many enemies carry sniper rifle ranged weapons), LoS, hulldown, a back area to retreat from enemies.

Modifié par eldrjth, 01 avril 2012 - 05:03 .

[Lazy_ Boy]

You guys should post gameplay videos, that would be far more helpful than a 3 page thread.

[SeaJayX]

Lazy_ Boy wrote...

You guys should post gameplay videos, that would be far more helpful than a 3 page thread.

If you just search for FB:White, Geth, Gold then you'll find a match with people doing it.

I do it when I want some easy gold wins.

[Terraflare]

Ive done all types of gold geth runs on white. The bottom right room is SAFER but slower (seriously, you can NEVER die to anything in that room) With 1 good decoy everything is safely locked down. No one can step outside the room if not troopers might flank from behind (though if youre fast with the ammo point its okay).

Up top is FASTER but RISKIER (but its still not very risky). Occasionally I will see 3 hunters spawn in the room to the right of the camping spot (usually only on wave 6 eliminate objective waves). Other than that, all you need to do is have 1 infiltrator always cover landing pad at start of spawn (it really is not a problem at all unless he is a bad shot). Preferably SI or BW/Valiant user so you can down those very quick. A non SI Widow downs them too slowly.

Everything else just proceeds as planned. The top is much faster - suicide on wave 10 = 16 minutes 75k runs, extraction is almost always 18 minutes with a good group. The bottom room is slower, usually 20 minutes without extraction, 22 with.

Really there is not much comparison if SPEED is what you're after. If you have level 15 sentinals you are carrying through, then I agree the bottom room is better for max power aoe spammage and 0 chance of dying.

[Raging Nug]

Drummernate wrote...
I did like 40 Gold runs yesterday and won every single time, in less than 30 minutes. (Fastest being 23:46).

... If your fastest was 23:46, playing around 40 games would have taken at 'least' fifteen and a half hours.

How do you kill that which has no life?

[xtorma]

ol MISAKA lo wrote...

Stop playing with randoms. Jesus, what is it with people like you? Don't you realize people the majority of random players you run in to aren't going to want to listen to you or your advice, especially if they have their own strategies that they know/ think they know work? Get over it and get a party dude. We're all getting sick of these WAAAAAAAH posts about bad players in multiplayer unless they're funny posts.

And this isn't funny. It's annoying.

Douche

[humes spork]

eldrjth wrote...

I never use a mic in the game

Wait, hold the phone. You don't communicate with your team and you're complaining your team doesn't coordinate its efforts?

If you hit yourself in the crotch with a baseball bat would you then complain your nuts hurt?

[MartialArtsSurfer]

SeaJayX wrote...

Lazy_ Boy wrote...

You guys should post gameplay videos, that would be far more helpful than a 3 page thread.

If you just search for FB:White, Geth, Gold then you'll find a match with people doing it.

I do it when I want some easy gold wins.

vs. geth
there's multiple strategies for it, just 3 of many below:

upstairs crossroads = faster for snipers by about 2 mins, riskier
upstairs with decoy by ladder = fastest with engineer by about 4 mins

bottom Interior room/launch ramp (don't need decoy) = easiest/safest,20-25 mins, easily done with any class

video links in my sig

Modifié par MartialArtsSurfer, 01 avril 2012 - 06:24 .

[TSCIGAR]

I was wondering when people were going to start realizing the implication of Drummernate's post. If no one said anything, I was gonna. I think we should be concerned. An intervention might be in order.

Anyway, there are different viable strategies for running FB White. I personally don't care which one my team uses, as long as we use just one. That's why it's important to me to have teammates that I'm talking to. Makes it more fun too, IMO. At the top of the ladder though is probably my least favorite strategy, because most people are really bad at keeping an eye on their flanks. It's a lot easier to be surprised by a swarm of hunters coming up the stairs than having them come through one of 2 covered chokepoints. And that ladder is a huge weakness in my book- why would I defend a point where an enemy can suddenly appear amidst us? I also don't know how you've NEVER had anyone sneak up behind you from the other path to the LZ- hell, I've seen enemies drop directly behind us from the spawn point right above it before. It doesn't happen often, but it's one more point you have to be aware of.

The best strategy for taking on White is always going to change to whatever your team collectively does best at. I'll only stay up top if that's what everybody else is doing and familiar with. If we can do 2/2 at the bottom, or 2 inside at the top of the stairs and 2 at the bottom, then I'd rather do that. There's just less ways it can go wrong.

Modifié par TSCIGAR, 01 avril 2012 - 07:13 .

[Lazy_ Boy]

SeaJayX wrote...
If you just search for FB:White, Geth, Gold then you'll find a match with people doing it.

I do it when I want some easy gold wins.

I only found one short video

I was hoping to find a full game video

[eldrjth]

Terraflare wrote...

Ive done all types of gold geth runs on white. The bottom right room is SAFER but slower (seriously, you can NEVER die to anything in that room) With 1 good decoy everything is safely locked down. No one can step outside the room if not troopers might flank from behind (though if youre fast with the ammo point its okay).

I dont think the bottom room is safer if youre running with engineers/infiltrators. against geth you get overwhelmed with primes/pyros/hunters/rocket troopers with less time to react and less room to maneuver. youre either pinned  behind a desk or can only cast out of cover, relying on miserly tech damage to kill primes. your sniper damage is lower since you have to wait for full reload and zoom up animation (since your crosshairs move when you shoot out of cover) and enemies can sometimes target you while in stealth too. not safer at all. in the top location a decoy can stall every enemy that comes your way. you can probably 2 man gold from the top by taking adv. of the retreat area and playing 1 sal eng, 1 sal inf quite easily.

humes spork wrote...

Wait, hold the phone. You don't communicate with your team and you're complaining your team doesn't coordinate its efforts?

If you hit yourself in the crotch with a baseball bat would you then complain your nuts hurt?

without a mic everyone somehow locates themselves in the middle section. but the guys who think they have a better strat run to a different spot. the place I refer to is intuitive and players seem to play there natuarally or in 2 other formations. I gather they read this very forum to get the other strats from and play worse for it.

[Pandaman102]

Just ran several games in FB:White on Gold vs. Geth. Used the room with the two desks, and here's why I like it:

Enemies only spawn from one direction.

The enemy only comes down two paths: the stairway from the smaller room and the stairs from the landing pad. If you toss a decoy in the doorway, enemies coming from both approaches see that first and focus fire on it.From there it's easy pickings for the rest of the team, you never have to worry about stuff coming from behind (because they simply down spawn there when you're in that room), and you only need one Infiltrator to run around enabling/disabling devices.

The ladder platform, on the other hand, has three fronts: from the landing pad, the stairway, and the long stretch in front of the ladder. Covering the stairway leaves you exposed to fire from the landing pad, while covering the landing pad leaves you exposed to the stairway, and covering the long stretch leaves you exposed to both.

It's easy to get overwhelmed at the ladder if someone fails to cover one of the sides, but it's practically impossible to get overwhelmed in the room below because all four players are focusing fire in one direction. It's not very exciting, but it works.

Modifié par Pandaman102, 03 avril 2012 - 06:25 .

[phos4us]

eldrjth wrote...

I dont think the bottom room is safer if youre running with engineers/infiltrators. against geth you get overwhelmed with primes/pyros/hunters/rocket troopers with less time to react and less room to maneuver. youre either pinned  behind a desk or can only cast out of cover, relying on miserly tech damage to kill primes.

The bottom room is safer for pubs if everyone stays down there. This way the enemies always spawn in the same locations.

For those who don't know what strategy this is it's 


One of the biggest assets of the L shaped cover is grab insta-kills. If Pyros/Hunters get too close, you just grab them and repeat until they are all gone. Usually the Primes will get stuck outside b/c of the decoy. 

The top of the stairs works fine on bronze and silver, but the bottom area works for gold. Hunter's can't sneak up on you downstairs. They frequently do up top, at least in the public lobbies.


There's a better strategy to farm on Firebase white. I haven't seen it on BSN yet, but me and my friends do it often against Cerberus.We've been clearing gold in 19 minutes on average.

[venetiancrusader]

there is so much trolling in this post LOL!!!!!!!!

[MartialArtsSurfer]

phos4us wrote...

eldrjth wrote...
I dont think the bottom room is safer if youre running with engineers/infiltrators. against geth you get overwhelmed with primes/pyros/hunters/rocket troopers with less time to react and less room to maneuver. youre either pinned  behind a desk or can only cast out of cover, relying on miserly tech damage to kill primes.

The bottom room is safer for pubs if everyone stays down there. This way the enemies always spawn in the same locations.

For those who don't know what strategy this is it's 

One of the biggest assets of the L shaped cover is grab insta-kills. If Pyros/Hunters get too close, you just grab them and repeat until they are all gone. Usually the Primes will get stuck outside b/c of the decoy. 

The top of the stairs works fine on bronze and silver, but the bottom area works for gold. Hunter's can't sneak up on you downstairs. They frequently do up top, at least in the public lobbies.

There's a better strategy to farm on Firebase white. I haven't seen it on BSN yet, but me and my friends do it often against Cerberus.We've been clearing gold in 19 minutes on average.

QFT

the instant grab kills makes it possible to carry level 1s there (who can grab kill no matter what class/level they are).. Eldarj just has to do it & see for himself instead of hyothesizing why it can't work when it obviously does (the strategy was first posted on the forums weeks ago & now spreading, which is a good thing since the 'everyone stay up top by the ladder' shouldn't be the only strategy --

it's always a good thing to have MORE OPTIONs & ALTERNATIVES than just one 'stay up top by ladder'..

Some people prefer 99% success of 75,000 credits every 22 minutes bottom-room strategy instead of 60% success rate of the top-ladder strategy for 75,000 credits every 18 minutes.. 4 minute difference for guaranteed credits  vs. risking more with a public lobby to save 4 minutes..

eh, when I play with friends, I go with any strategy but with risky public groups, I'd prefer not to risk wipe just to save 4 minutes & rather get the guaranteed payoff than gambling that public lobbies have good enough players to cover flanks on the top ladder position

BTW, what's the your 18-min strategy against Cerebrus on Gold?

Modifié par MartialArtsSurfer, 03 avril 2012 - 06:54 .

[phos4us]

MartialArtsSurfer wrote...

BTW, what's the your 18-min strategy against Cerebrus on Gold?

I'm surprised I haven't seen it around yet. Firebase White, against Cerberus or Geth.

2 Asari Adepts, 1 Salarian engineer (or 2), 1 other class (adept, infiltrator, sentinel, soldier, vanguard even, we've done it with every class)

First two rounds are a free for all, just go around quickly killing enemies. Then move into the stairway. Split into two squads, one salarian engineer at top of stairs, one at the bottom (or 1 salarian engineer at top, other 3 at the bottom). Place decoys out in front of the stairways at beginning of each round.

Adepts spam Biotic Explosions. Other classes do their best to support. Geth Primes/Atlases are fantastic b/c they are large, mobs get stuck around them, and biotic explosions kill them while you're damaging the larger enemies.
1 Salarian engineer at the top is usually good enough to keep enemies busy up top. There are less mobs that spawn up there. You can move safely between the top and bottom of the stairs depending on where enemies spawn, but keep 1 person at the opposite entry to the stairs at all times to not get flanked.

Get to end of round 10, die (saves 2 minutes). 

The first 2 rounds take up the most time. Everyone uses one missile per game, usually on wave 9 or 10 just to speed things up.

Modifié par phos4us, 03 avril 2012 - 07:10 .

[eldrjth]

MartialArtsSurfer wrote...

the instant grab kills makes it possible to carry level 1s there (who can grab kill no matter what class/level they are).. Eldarj just has to do it & see for himself instead of hyothesizing why it can't work when it obviously does (the strategy was first posted on the forums weeks ago & now spreading, which is a good thing since the 'everyone stay up top by the ladder' shouldn't be the only strategy --

I play all my matches in pub games. I will exit a match if I dont think the group is up to it and will kick level 1s because they cant assist the team at all. I dont mind that theres a single strat for a single map against a single enemy. it means that communicating what you want others to do is not necessary and everyone knows the strat inside out. or should.

seeing as I usually play either sal eng/inf  I will find players of similar build, while avoiding groups that are heavy in biotics, and theres no real 'good' strat as a group of eng/snipers apart from the top ladder.  

MartialArtsSurfer wrote...

it's always a good thing to have MORE OPTIONs & ALTERNATIVES than just one 'stay up top by ladder'..

Some people prefer 99% success of 75,000 credits every 22 minutes bottom-room strategy instead of 60% success rate of the top-ladder strategy for 75,000 credits every 18 minutes.. 4 minute difference for guaranteed credits  vs. risking more with a public lobby to save 4 minutes.. 

I have 90%+ success rate using the above the ladder approach and have close to a 40% success rate with the desk area. its noobs using noob tactics basically, is my assessment. if they can handle the top of the ladder comfortably (quite easy really) they wouldnt pick an inferior spot (thats advertised as a (false) defensive 'easy win' position). they are on cruise control the entire match and hope to spam abilities to victory. they also hate using weapons.

 

MartialArtsSurfer wrote... 
eh, when I play with friends, I go with any strategy but with risky public groups, I'd prefer not to risk wipe just to save 4 minutes & rather get the guaranteed payoff than gambling that public lobbies have good enough players to cover flanks on the top ladder position

BTW, what's the your 18-min strategy against Cerebrus on Gold?

I dont play cerberus usually, and not on firebase white. they are better played from firebase dagger imo, where you can secure the entry points easily while having a good view of the entire battlefield. a sal engineer as usual will tie up units in your blind spots. having said that the top of the ladder is also good against cerberus, and reapers. just that pub teams arent consistant enough against them.

[Pandaman102]

eldrjth wrote...

seeing as I usually play either sal eng/inf  I will find players of similar build, while avoiding groups that are heavy in biotics, and theres no real 'good' strat as a group of eng/snipers apart from the top ladder.

Right, why don't you actually try the strategy next time with a group that knows it, so you can actually support your opinion with facts rather than blind speculation?

Edit: hell, you don't even need a group that knows it, really. As long as you don't have idiots running off to rack up kills you'll be fine, but the same can be said for the ladder strategy.

Modifié par Pandaman102, 03 avril 2012 - 07:48 .

[eldrjth]

Pandaman102 wrote...

eldrjth wrote...

seeing as I usually play either sal eng/inf  I will find players of similar build, while avoiding groups that are heavy in biotics, and theres no real 'good' strat as a group of eng/snipers apart from the top ladder.

Right, why don't you actually try the strategy next time with a group that knows it, so you can actually support your opinion with facts rather than blind speculation?

I have. they are worse players imo than the top of the ladder group. esp in obj rounds. when Im forced to play bottom position with my sal engineer the team lacks firepower/skill as a whole and gets overwhelmed with primes/pyros/rockets/hunters easily. I cant carry a group from there, like a can with a sniper infil on top. they cant dish out the dps and rely on poor dps tech skills in place of highly damaging sniper rifles. I dont even get it honestly. I lead the scoreboard when I play sal infil from down stairs with the screen shacking all the time from rockets/primes/burst, yet the team gets consistantly wiped? they are obviously lesser skilled players looking for an easy location and dont realise its actually more difficult.

[NotPotato]

People hold the bottom room because it's much safer than the top. However this safety makes it much slower, because the spawn points are so far, and the enemies' visibility is zero for a good while after spawning.
If you have the DPS to deal with the potential swarm going up the stairs, you'll finish much faster holding the top of the stairs, rather than the bottom room. A couple rocket troopers spawn on the landing pad each wave, but they can be dealt with easily after the first rocket hits (thus notifying the infiltrator posted close to them).
Tested this with SE/HE/SI/SI (specced for chain overload sparklyness); time difference can be as much as 5 minutes (17/22, with extraction).

Modifié par NotPotato, 03 avril 2012 - 08:22 .