I respect that opinion, I really do, but is it really such a terrible thing that we had to make our own connections and conclusions based on the materials given?
I do to, when I expect so. The ending of LOST is a good example, it offered a lot to speculate about. But they did something good, they made an absolute beautiful closure of the characters we grew to love throughout the series. In this one, we aren't just not offered a good closure, something that is implied in their advertisement, but we are given more questions than answers. And even if they did that, it would still be good, what makes it all so bad, is the logic set by the ending, the abundant number of plotholes just demonstrate how poorly written it is.
i loved the part where Galactic society is destroyed and and there is space magic, how Shepard blindly accepts the starchild's logic and Joker runs away from the battle and your squad teleports to the Normandy and are happy to be trapped in Jurassic Park for the rest of their lives....oh wait....i HATED that part
Space magic? Any sufficiently advanced technology would be considered magic by an technologically inferior race <G>
Shepard blindly accepts catalysts logic? He's got 2, 3 choices. What else is he going to do? Shoot the catalyst? I tried it, didn't work. C'mon, work with me here. What is he going to do? If he's in a reaper dream, then I dunno, I'd think psionics that could do that could just shut his brain down. If he's really up there with the catalyst, then he can....well, he can make the decision. Or, he can refuse to make a decision which leaves him sitting on the floor till he passes out from blood loss (he was shot, remember?).
Ok, Joker and Normandy...I gots nothin. I'm with you on that.
Happy to be trapped? Well heck dude! Beats being dead! If I was in a plane that crashed on a deserted jungle island, and I survived intact I'd be pretty dang happy to! C'mon, be honest. Wouldn't you? Or would you sit there griping, "Dangit! I wanted to die in that crash!" Just um, ignore why you were on the plane in the first place.
i loved the part where Galactic society is destroyed and and there is space magic, how Shepard blindly accepts the starchild's logic and Joker runs away from the battle and your squad teleports to the Normandy and are happy to be trapped in Jurassic Park for the rest of their lives....oh wait....i HATED that part
Space magic? Any sufficiently advanced technology would be considered magic by an technologically inferior race <G>
Shepard blindly accepts catalysts logic? He's got 2, 3 choices. What else is he going to do? Shoot the catalyst? I tried it, didn't work. C'mon, work with me here. What is he going to do? If he's in a reaper dream, then I dunno, I'd think psionics that could do that could just shut his brain down. If he's really up there with the catalyst, then he can....well, he can make the decision. Or, he can refuse to make a decision which leaves him sitting on the floor till he passes out from blood loss (he was shot, remember?).
Ok, Joker and Normandy...I gots nothin. I'm with you on that.
Happy to be trapped? Well heck dude! Beats being dead! If I was in a plane that crashed on a deserted jungle island, and I survived intact I'd be pretty dang happy to! C'mon, be honest. Wouldn't you? Or would you sit there griping, "Dangit! I wanted to die in that crash!" Just um, ignore why you were on the plane in the first place.
If I'd left the person I loved behind, and know they are likely dead, I wouldnt be happy. Neither would any of the love interests you see happy at the end. They're just like 'The love of my life is dead, but hey look this jungle is so pretty!'
I respect that opinion, I really do, but is it really such a terrible thing that we had to make our own connections and conclusions based on the materials given?
I do to, when I expect so. The ending of LOST is a good example, it offered a lot to speculate about. But they did something good, they made an absolute beautiful closure of the characters we grew to love throughout the series. In this one, we aren't just not offered a good closure, something that is implied in their advertisement, but we are given more questions than answers. And even if they did that, it would still be good, what makes it all so bad, is the logic set by the ending, the abundant number of plotholes just demonstrate how poorly written it is.
Every game Bioware has made has had plot holes, all have required imagination to fill in blanks and half the content ever created on these forums is about the use of imagination for what something means, how something is done and what it could lead too. Yes there were plot holes and yes there was unexplained elements which leads to use of imagination (as has always been the case) the only difference is scale of use. The DLC based on feedback which always would of been created after retail release even if the retake group had not resorted to so many gimmicks and threats (though the charity one did some good) would of always been created and tried to provide expostion and clarity which leads to closure. Such DLC was always going to be coming and the sheer hissy fit and rage was taken too far by many here even though was also many who were respectable and more reasonable.
Edit: The ones who shout troll and attack anyone who uses that imagination clearly does not understand Bioware, their games or the majority of how this forum works over the years.
I personally absolutely loved the ending(s) and would hate to see them retconned. I believe that many people didn't like to have to make the hard choices and wanted a win all and save all scenario. This is unrealistic and would have made no sense in a galactic war with machines.
Further elaboration would be welcomed but don't change what is already there.
Edit: I am not a troll, I just appreciate the end as I know many others do, I am happy to hear your opinions and counter-arguments, but simply asserting I am wrong or a troll gets you nothing.
The Star Child needs to go, and be replaced on some level with Harbinger Its the only logical thing to do.
I mean seriously, all of ME2 and the DLC arrival was all about setting Harbinger up as the principle antagonist of the series. While the collectors may have appeared to be the big baddies there, it was actually Harbinger, and you actually fought Harbinger every single time you fought any collectors.
So ME3 comes around and then what? All we get from Harbinger is a codex entry, a few seconds in a cutscene, and a brief sequence with him shooting at us.... thats it. They could just as well have cut any reference to Harbinger out completely from ME3, because thats how absent he was.
A final verbal and physical confrontation with Harbinger is a MUST HAVE in order to wrap up this trilogy properly.
I can't argue with this at all, Harbinger's absence was a major mistake.
i loved the part where Galactic society is destroyed and and there is space magic, how Shepard blindly accepts the starchild's logic and Joker runs away from the battle and your squad teleports to the Normandy and are happy to be trapped in Jurassic Park for the rest of their lives....oh wait....i HATED that part
Space magic? Any sufficiently advanced technology would be considered magic by an technologically inferior race <G>
Shepard blindly accepts catalysts logic? He's got 2, 3 choices. What else is he going to do? Shoot the catalyst? I tried it, didn't work. C'mon, work with me here. What is he going to do? If he's in a reaper dream, then I dunno, I'd think psionics that could do that could just shut his brain down. If he's really up there with the catalyst, then he can....well, he can make the decision. Or, he can refuse to make a decision which leaves him sitting on the floor till he passes out from blood loss (he was shot, remember?).
Ok, Joker and Normandy...I gots nothin. I'm with you on that.
Happy to be trapped? Well heck dude! Beats being dead! If I was in a plane that crashed on a deserted jungle island, and I survived intact I'd be pretty dang happy to! C'mon, be honest. Wouldn't you? Or would you sit there griping, "Dangit! I wanted to die in that crash!" Just um, ignore why you were on the plane in the first place.
synthesis makes no sense, at least they could have explained how does that happen, and the Catalyst's logic is flawed because just before i hot the quarians to get peace with the geth, a conflict ORGANICS started, not synthetics as he assumes, and the only Chaos in the Galaxy are HIS machines
Every game Bioware has made has had plot holes, all have required imagination to fill in blanks and half the content ever created on these forums is about the use of imagination for what something means, how something is done and what it could lead too. Yes there were plot holes and yes there was unexplained elements which leads to use of imagination (as has always been the case) the only difference is scale of use. The DLC based on feedback which always would of been created after retail release even if the retake group had not resorted to so many gimmicks and threats (though the charity one did some good) would of always been created and tried to provide expostion and clarity which leads to closure. Such DLC was alawys going to be coming and the sheer hissy fit and rage was taken too far by many here even though was also many who were respectable and more reasonable.
Sure, Bioware games have always had some plotholes, but this time, the entire ending was basically one big plothole. It stands out among all other plotholes in other Bioware games.
"Hard choices"? Yes, it was hard choosing between "Shepard dies, Normandy crashes, relays are destroyed", "Shepard dies, Normandy crashes, relays are destroyed", and "Shepard dies, Normandy crashes, relays are destroyed". Had to really weigh the positives and negatives on that one.
FYI, the last choice, Shepard doesn't die.
And you seem to be throwing out the decisions all together. They are completely different. One, all organic and synthetic life stays as it currently is. (blue, paragon) Two, all organic and synthetic life are now merged into a hybrid lifeform. (green) Three, all synthetic life including the Reapers are destoryed.(red renegade)
The Mass Relays are used to send out that choice using the Element Zero that is contained in their cores.
Those 3 choices are completely different and mean a huge difference to the state of the galaxy.
If you didn't really weigh the positives and negatives to that decision then that says you just didn't care. You couldn't be bothered with the philosophical implications. No need to bash the OP point of view.
Others do care and we definately needed to make the choice that was true to our Shepard, not some random pick where we didn't really care what happens to the galaxy. If we were paragon all the way through it was hard to make a paragon decision that the Illusive Man who we thought of as a total renegade was advocating.
I too love the ending right now (red ending + 4k ems). Just curious how come nobody brought up the leaked ending from a way back? From what i heard about the leaked ending..it did contain stuff from me 2 and 1 (ie: dark energy discussed by tali in me2).
Bioware did what they could to avoid lots of fans being spoiled....and their back up plan (change the endings) worked quite well. If anything, blame the people behind the story leaks. If it weren't for them, we'd prolly all have "better" endngs.
i loved the part where Galactic society is destroyed and and there is space magic, how Shepard blindly accepts the starchild's logic and Joker runs away from the battle and your squad teleports to the Normandy and are happy to be trapped in Jurassic Park for the rest of their lives....oh wait....i HATED that part
Space magic? Any sufficiently advanced technology would be considered magic by an technologically inferior race <G>
Shepard blindly accepts catalysts logic? He's got 2, 3 choices. What else is he going to do? Shoot the catalyst? I tried it, didn't work. C'mon, work with me here. What is he going to do? If he's in a reaper dream, then I dunno, I'd think psionics that could do that could just shut his brain down. If he's really up there with the catalyst, then he can....well, he can make the decision. Or, he can refuse to make a decision which leaves him sitting on the floor till he passes out from blood loss (he was shot, remember?).
Ok, Joker and Normandy...I gots nothin. I'm with you on that.
Happy to be trapped? Well heck dude! Beats being dead! If I was in a plane that crashed on a deserted jungle island, and I survived intact I'd be pretty dang happy to! C'mon, be honest. Wouldn't you? Or would you sit there griping, "Dangit! I wanted to die in that crash!" Just um, ignore why you were on the plane in the first place.
If I'd left the person I loved behind, and know they are likely dead, I wouldnt be happy. Neither would any of the love interests you see happy at the end. They're just like 'The love of my life is dead, but hey look this jungle is so pretty!'
I will never accept that.
Shepard died once and came back, there is always reason for hope (a major theme in the game). Also regardless Shepard's love interest would be relieved to know that the war was finally over and Shep died doing what he set out to do.
i loved the part where Galactic society is destroyed and and there is space magic, how Shepard blindly accepts the starchild's logic and Joker runs away from the battle and your squad teleports to the Normandy and are happy to be trapped in Jurassic Park for the rest of their lives....oh wait....i HATED that part
Space magic? Any sufficiently advanced technology would be considered magic by an technologically inferior race <G>
Shepard blindly accepts catalysts logic? He's got 2, 3 choices. What else is he going to do? Shoot the catalyst? I tried it, didn't work. C'mon, work with me here. What is he going to do? If he's in a reaper dream, then I dunno, I'd think psionics that could do that could just shut his brain down. If he's really up there with the catalyst, then he can....well, he can make the decision. Or, he can refuse to make a decision which leaves him sitting on the floor till he passes out from blood loss (he was shot, remember?).
Ok, Joker and Normandy...I gots nothin. I'm with you on that.
Happy to be trapped? Well heck dude! Beats being dead! If I was in a plane that crashed on a deserted jungle island, and I survived intact I'd be pretty dang happy to! C'mon, be honest. Wouldn't you? Or would you sit there griping, "Dangit! I wanted to die in that crash!" Just um, ignore why you were on the plane in the first place.
synthesis makes no sense, at least they could have explained how does that happen, and the Catalyst's logic is flawed because just before i hot the quarians to get peace with the geth, a conflict ORGANICS started, not synthetics as he assumes, and the only Chaos in the Galaxy are HIS machines
This all assumes the the StarKid is the master of the cycle, what if he is just another slave to it like the Reapers? Just because he is a hologram on the Citadel doesn't mean he is right or knows everything, but what other choice does Shep have than to take one of the three options?
"Hard choices"? Yes, it was hard choosing between "Shepard dies, Normandy crashes, relays are destroyed", "Shepard dies, Normandy crashes, relays are destroyed", and "Shepard dies, Normandy crashes, relays are destroyed". Had to really weigh the positives and negatives on that one.
FYI, the last choice, Shepard doesn't die.
And you seem to be throwing out the decisions all together. They are completely different. One, all organic and synthetic life stays as it currently is. (blue, paragon) Two, all organic and synthetic life are now merged into a hybrid lifeform. (green) Three, all synthetic life including the Reapers are destoryed.(red renegade)
The Mass Relays are used to send out that choice using the Element Zero that is contained in their cores.
Those 3 choices are completely different and mean a huge difference to the state of the galaxy.
If you didn't really weigh the positives and negatives to that decision then that says you just didn't care. You couldn't be bothered with the philosophical implications. No need to bash the OP point of view.
Others do care and we definately needed to make the choice that was true to our Shepard, not some random pick where we didn't really care what happens to the galaxy. If we were paragon all the way through it was hard to make a paragon decision that the Illusive Man who we thought of as a total renegade was advocating.
This is my thought process exactly, we are made to re-evaluate our thoughts and beliefs and make a hard choice, so what if it doesn't show that choice being made effective, it is implied, and that let's us each take our ideas from it.
I personally absolutely loved the ending(s) and would hate to see them retconned. I believe that many people didn't like to have to make the hard choices and wanted a win all and save all scenario. This is unrealistic and would have made no sense in a galactic war with machines.
Further elaboration would be welcomed but don't change what is already there.
You lack of knowledge of basic plot points in the ME universe makes me call into question the entire review. First and foremost suggesting that the Protheans built the Relays. This is one of the huge plot twists in ME1 that the Protheans DIDNT'T build the relays.
So if its unrealistic to have a win-all scenario, is LotR unrealistic? We're not asking for a "kittens and rainbows" ending, but to say there couldn't have been a happy ending for the protagonist is just silly. Yes there can be.
I personally absolutely loved the ending(s) and would hate to see them retconned. I believe that many people didn't like to have to make the hard choices and wanted a win all and save all scenario. This is unrealistic and would have made no sense in a galactic war with machines.
Further elaboration would be welcomed but don't change what is already there.
You lack of knowledge of basic plot points in the ME universe makes me call into question the entire review. First and foremost suggesting that the Protheans built the Relays. This is one of the huge plot twists in ME1 that the Protheans DIDNT'T build the relays.
Lol, he said that? Wow.
Yeah, I'd say you need to do a bit more research, OP.
A deus ex machina (play /ˈdeɪ.əs ɛks ˈmɑːkiːnə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/ DAY-əs eks MAH-kee-nə;[1] Latin: "god out of the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.
I personally absolutely loved the ending(s) and would hate to see them retconned. I believe that many people didn't like to have to make the hard choices and wanted a win all and save all scenario. This is unrealistic and would have made no sense in a galactic war with machines.
Further elaboration would be welcomed but don't change what is already there.
You lack of knowledge of basic plot points in the ME universe makes me call into question the entire review. First and foremost suggesting that the Protheans built the Relays. This is one of the huge plot twists in ME1 that the Protheans DIDNT'T build the relays.
This is questionable. The Reapers building the relays is an assertion made by Sovereign, so is the fact that each reaper is an independent nation, which is clearly not true. But I will respect that questionable material should not assert argument. I will amend that piece.
So if its unrealistic to have a win-all scenario, is LotR unrealistic? We're not asking for a "kittens and rainbows" ending, but to say there couldn't have been a happy ending for the protagonist is just silly. Yes there can be.
I am not necessarily saying that all win-all scenarios are unrealistic, but given the level of destruction that the galaxy had already endured and the enemy a win-all scenario doesn't seem plausible for Shepard.
I personally absolutely loved the ending(s) and would hate to see them retconned. I believe that many people didn't like to have to make the hard choices and wanted a win all and save all scenario. This is unrealistic and would have made no sense in a galactic war with machines.
Further elaboration would be welcomed but don't change what is already there.
Edit: I am not a troll, I just appreciate the end as I know many others do, I am happy to hear your opinions and counter-arguments, but simply asserting I am wrong or a troll gets you nothing.
I read your blog. Few things.
You are not looking at the endings of the game from a critical standpoint. Had you been, you would have realized the plot-holes, inconsistencies of character, and poor execution. I will elaborate.
Plot Holes: Everything up until Harbinger backhands you down to the ground is consistent. When you get up into the Citadel however, things become a little fuzzy. First of all, Anderson says he's come in behind you--yet somehow he manages to make it ahead of you when there is only one linear path from where you teleported up. When you encounter the Illusive Man he seems to appear literally, out of thin air, as on the way TO the console there are no branching paths for him to have possibly come up from behind you. So he just spawns, behind you, and starts trolling. Side note: Where do we see our choice of either blowing up, or saving the Collector Base make a difference? We don't. At any point. So the little scuffle ensues, ultimately the Illusive Man dies, and then so does Anderson.
Here is where things just become... weird. You are taken up on a magical elevator into the final area where you meet the infamous "Star Child." (Nevermind by the way that "Marauder Shields" was literally, the last boss fight. At the end of the other games there were legitimate boss fights. "Marauder Shields" was technically the "boss fight." It's funny because it's true) Here we are introduced an ENTIRELY NEW CHARACTER (I don't care that you see the child in your dreams, this is actually, in fact, a brand new character) and given only 30 seconds of hasty exposition in which you listen to the child just talk at you, with no dialogue options to ask it questions, or, in keeping with true Shepard style whether it be Paragon or Renegade, tell it to go screw off. Nope, you don't get any of those things which to get those options would actually be in keeping with true Mass Effect style.
Now, if we were to believe in the whole Indoctrination theory, each of the three endings would lead you to--not a true ending. Two of the endings involve Shepard being beaten out by the Reapers and becoming Indoctrinated in which case, the battle continues (but we do not know about it). The third ending is the one where we get the half second of breath then cut to credits, in which case... Shepard wakes up in the middle of a pile of rubble in a still ongoing battle on Earth, which means it's actually not over, and this promised ending is not really a promised ending.
That's if we accept the Indoctrination theory. If we don't, then all endings leave us with these incredibly similar cutscenes: Shepard chooses, Reapers leave, Mass Relays blow up, Normandy is stranded on a planet. The only DIFFERENCES being whether or not landmarks are blown up, whether or not the Earth is toast, and of course... the color of the magical radiant space energy. Or... EMP burst as you stated. I'll accept the EMP burst. But since when does an EMP burst make electronics explode, as in the case of the Mass Relays? Wouldn't it simply power them down?
Character Inconsistencies: This is a nice place to start talking about character inconsistencies. Never mind the fact that suddenly Shepard becomes all accepting of the information given to him by the Star Child, which is not in keeping with the true Shepard personality, but our crew has completely ditched us and is running away. At the end of the battle. Joker decided that it was a good time to peace out after you got into the Citadel, and run from the fight. Now, if Joker thought Shepard was dead, wouldn't he still stay to help with the fight anyway? ...It is Earth... Anyway, so somehow he manages to magically locate and pick up your ENTIRE CREW who are scattered about the battlefield, without a proper shuttle, and then jet on out of there and hit a Mass Relay sometime before you actually make your decision. Really? So the Normandy crash lands on a planet somewhere out in the galaxy. I'm supposed to believe that after a violent crash-landing the guy with Vrolik Syndrome is going to not only be the first one out of the ship, but be totally okay? "But he has a limp!" He's had a limp the entire time, it's because his bones are weak. Then everyone is all happy smiley, no one is wondering what the hell happened? No one is like "uh... where are we? Is Shepard okay? What... WHAT HAPPENED?!"
Poor Execution: In many, many press releases, there are quotes you can find all over the Internet where Casey Hudson states that we will see our choices affect the OUTCOME of this third game. That is inclusive of its ending. You said in your blog that we see our choices in the endings of the first and second, and how our choices throughout both games affected the journey in the third. This is true, however, that does not negate the fact that it was said that the ENDING of this game will also see the culmination of our choices, which didn't happen. What choice in Mass Effect 1 or 2 is the reason why Big Ben blows up? (It's one of the possible "endings" in ME3) Why even BOTHER making such a big deal about keeping the Collector Base, or destroying it? Would it have made the Illusive Man horrifically disfigure his troops any sooner? We don't know, we're not told.
What was promised was variety. What was promised was that the collaboration between the gamers and the developers was going to all come together in this end-all for the Shepard story. You said this in your blog:
"This is something to think about, no matter how hard we struggle, how hard we push, can we truly change fate? Or merely delay the inevitable?"
And this is a quote from Casey Hudson on ME3:
"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player, and reflecting a lot of that stuff... the endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them."
What happened at the end, is that our decisions did not matter, not on the scale that Casey Hudson advertised it would be. Not to mention, to quote a fantastic youtuber: "I understand that it's the common belief that in epics like these, the hero 'has to die.' But the phrase 'the hero has to...' anything in a game like Mass Effect that's built around choice and you picking your own destiny, it goes against everything that Mass Effect is all about. If someone plays good for the entire time they should earn a good ending. You know show what's happening with your crew, show Shepard and Garrus on a beach, they're talking with each other, Shepard's all 'well we did it Garrus. We took back Earth.' Garrus is all like 'you took it back Shepard because I was there and I had your back. What would you do without me?' You know they have banter back and forth because they're really strong war buddies, and then you see the beach that they're looking at; and it's a beach, but you see like big dead Reapers sticking out of the water, and they're like: 'well it's gonna take some work, but we took Earth back.'" Link to his video here:
This game for five years has been a COLLABORATION on the part of both the gaming community and the development team. That collaboration fell apart at the end, plain and simple. The endings weren't bad in and of themselves, but they did NOT belong to this story. Not in the slightest.
I personally absolutely loved the ending(s) and would hate to see them retconned. I believe that many people didn't like to have to make the hard choices and wanted a win all and save all scenario. This is unrealistic and would have made no sense in a galactic war with machines.
Further elaboration would be welcomed but don't change what is already there.
Edit: I am not a troll, I just appreciate the end as I know many others do, I am happy to hear your opinions and counter-arguments, but simply asserting I am wrong or a troll gets you nothing.
Your clearly Indoctrinated, i recommend Saren exit strategy during the final events of ME1.
I believe that many people didn't like to have to make the hard choices and wanted a win all and save all scenario. This is unrealistic and would have made no sense in a galactic war with machines.
Umm tons and tons of people already died in my game before the end? Did Thane and Mordin live in your game? Countless others from Reaper attacks? There was enough death from the war that even if all the rest of the squad lived there was still loss from the war. Get out of here
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