170 réponses à ce sujet

[fafnir magnus]

you make as many pointless assumptions as critics of the ending are accused of making.
1) you imply that the people posting online are the sole group of dissatisfied gamers and consumers
2) you imply that the majority of people who don't comment online think the ending is good
3) you attempt to draw parallels between the matrix, a series depicting the finer points of zen buddhism in an allegorical sense, to an action/adventure space RPG. The religious overtones of Neo were there from the start with a prophecy, and the arc built consistently to that rather enjoyable(and expected) conclusion. Shepard is not space jesus. There is no foreshadowing of shepard's role as an individual, and even the whole synthetic/organic hybridization that was his resurrection is mostly left alone except for a few bursts in ME3.
4) the entire topic of the mass relays, element zero, dark matter, and star lifecycles that was foreshadowed in ME2 and would have been a very enjoyable, well grounded soft science ending justification was completely ignored and replaced by an illogical justification about the cycle.
5) The cycle is inherently illogical. Defense of the cycle and assault of the cycle must both be based in proving non-existence and are thus as fruitless as discussions of the existence of god. What directly undermines any claims of practical examples of the cycle in the geth are undermined by the lack of a significant AI threat or development in the prothean empire. In fact, all prothean research seems to have been devoted to replication of the mass relay technology, and stasis. VI interfaces were well shackled tools, with no true decision making processes beyond stimulus-response.

[RxP4IN]

tontoodioso wrote...

davidt0504 wrote...

You lack of knowledge of basic plot points in the ME universe makes me call into question the entire review.
First and foremost suggesting that the Protheans built the Relays. This is one of the huge plot twists in ME1 that the Protheans DIDNT'T build the relays.

This is questionable. The Reapers building the relays is an assertion made by Sovereign, so is the fact that each reaper is an independent nation, which is clearly not true. But I will respect that questionable material should not assert argument. I will amend that piece.

Questionable? Ugh...you're flat out wrong. Period.

[fafnir magnus]

also please note: in the architect sequence of the Matrix you draw from, Neo does more than continue the cycle. He BREAKS the cycle, creating a new state of potential harmony between man and machine as those who cannot be freed from the system are allowed to remain incorporated with it. He does not send humanity spiraling into the dark ages, but instead completely halts the machine assault, bringing peace to humanity's last bastion. This ending was infinitely more enjoyable, logical, and well grounded in the series than the entire catalyst sequence.

[Iwillbeback]

Wolfva2 wrote...

ediskrad327 wrote...

i loved the part where Galactic society is destroyed and and there is space magic, how Shepard blindly accepts the starchild's logic and Joker runs away from the battle and your squad teleports to the Normandy and are happy to be trapped in Jurassic Park for the rest of their lives....oh wait....i HATED that part

Space magic?  Any sufficiently advanced technology would be considered magic by an technologically inferior race <G>

No its a plot hole.
If it involves the crucible it is a plot hole.

[Christianswe]

I respect that you post your feelings about the ending. And i respect that you like the ending.
But for me?? Sorry, it´s one of the worst, empty, nonsensical ending i have ever seen.
Just my opinion. But they will probaly just add to the endings they have. I hope not.

[Untold]

tontoodioso wrote...

I personally absolutely loved the ending(s) and would hate to see them  retconned. I believe that many people didn't like to have to make the hard choices and wanted a win all and save all scenario. This is unrealistic and would have made no sense in a galactic war with machines.

Further elaboration would be welcomed but don't change what is already there.

Read my full explanation on my thoughts here.

Edit: I am not a troll, I just appreciate the end as I know many others do, I am happy to hear your opinions and counter-arguments, but simply asserting I am wrong or a troll gets you nothing.

I gave your blog a read and while I respect your opinion on the endings, I believe you missed a lot of what the outrage was about. Most of the people that were a little miffed at the ending were not so over the fact that you couldn't save everyone. That for many was never an issue. We expected going into the game that there was a good chance Shepard and even entire civilizations would not come out of this encounter in tact. So I'll give you the cliff notes of some of the issues.

Continuity:

• Shepard's crew members that were in his party on the final charge end up back on the Normandy - How?
• The Normandy is fleeing the system seemingly leaving the Victory Fleet behind and apparently traveling and unfathomable speeds to reach the Mass Relay before it explodes and thus being caught in the explosion - Again how?
• Why does Shepard take a breath at the end of the Destruction ending and where is he? It doesn't look like space or the Citadel, especially since it blew up.
• Who is grandpa and the kid at the end and why are they in all 3?
• Given that the Mass Relay explosions have been known to destroy entire solar systems, did they all just go up at the end as well? Never explained.
• How does Admiral Hackett know you're on the citadel when it was reported no one made it and the whole team was wiped out?
• What happens to those stranded at Earth.
• In the Synthesis ending - How can it be possible to merge human and synthetic DNA (even though I'm pretty sure bots don't have DNA) and create a new merged synthesis for everyone. How does that work for Krogan, Turian and Asari again? By that I mean Human + Synthetic = no Krogan, Asari or Turian DNA.
• The introduction of Star Child was abrupt and felt out of place. The entire Mass Effect series is reduced to a 10m segment of an all powerful, all controlling new character that we never heard. I think if this was your endgame it could have used a bit more development.
• Better question still - if Star Child is responsible for all of this why does he say Shepard has to make a decision again? There's a lot there that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

That's just a quick yank off the top of my head and a few questions that could do with a little more answering. It's not all about a must-have happy ending, though I can't see why multiple endings to fit the desires of players is a problem. It's kind of been the staple of the series - choice matters. ME2 being a keen example of just how much it can matter by losing team members and crew based on your decisions. Even Shepard if you weren't careful.

I still just have this feeling that BioWare had plans for post-ending DLC. I could be wrong but some things that make me think that is the fact that during the series Shepard never faced possible Indoctrination, which you would think would have to be a must for such a big plot point. The possible corruption of a hero. Also, Harbinger was built up pretty big in 2 and he only shows up at the end for a blasty cameo.

While I am not one of the outraged at the ending, it, In my opinion, did an otherwise excellent story and the series an injustice. There are ways to leave things bittersweet that don't involve leaving people scratching their head and asking what the heck just happened. But BioWare does have clever writers and for all we know they could be playing us all. We'll find out next month.

I hope that clears up things a bit. While I certainly accept your opinion on the ending, we'll have to agree to disagree on it being a fitting end.

Now if the Indoctrination Theory that everyone keeps talking about turns out to be true and it turns out that BioWare played us all to see who managed to avoid it and who didn't, that could be a clever turn, but then there's that other DLC thing we'll have to deal with.

Modifié par Untold, 23 mars 2012 - 08:48 .

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Everyone who I have talked to irl who have beaten ME3 hate the endings. Make of that what you will

[RxP4IN]

fafnir magnus wrote...

you make as many pointless assumptions as critics of the ending are accused of making.
1) you imply that the people posting online are the sole group of dissatisfied gamers and consumers
2) you imply that the majority of people who don't comment online think the ending is good
3) you attempt to draw parallels between the matrix, a series depicting the finer points of zen buddhism in an allegorical sense, to an action/adventure space RPG. The religious overtones of Neo were there from the start with a prophecy, and the arc built consistently to that rather enjoyable(and expected) conclusion. Shepard is not space jesus. There is no foreshadowing of shepard's role as an individual, and even the whole synthetic/organic hybridization that was his resurrection is mostly left alone except for a few bursts in ME3.
4) the entire topic of the mass relays, element zero, dark matter, and star lifecycles that was foreshadowed in ME2 and would have been a very enjoyable, well grounded soft science ending justification was completely ignored and replaced by an illogical justification about the cycle.
5) The cycle is inherently illogical. Defense of the cycle and assault of the cycle must both be based in proving non-existence and are thus as fruitless as discussions of the existence of god. What directly undermines any claims of practical examples of the cycle in the geth are undermined by the lack of a significant AI threat or development in the prothean empire. In fact, all prothean research seems to have been devoted to replication of the mass relay technology, and stasis. VI interfaces were well shackled tools, with no true decision making processes beyond stimulus-response.

This.

I'm all for counter-arguments and debate, but people who ramble in ignorance and promote themselves is just in bad taste. Unfortunately, many in this thread have already highlighted his numerous faulty conclusions and yet he continues to defend his point.

OP, go back to the drawing board--do some research, read a comprehensive synopsis on the series, think before you write, then come back with an argument that makes sense.

[Shaigunjoe]

I thought your blog post was good. I also liked the endings though for different reasons than you did. I was glad to see you touched on issues with ME3 that I think are bigger than the ending complaints. Though in my opinion the tali picture was just a huge let down.

[retic]

I dont understand the tali pic haters when in fact, manshep, mirnda and dianna allers were all based on people IRL.

[Joccaren]

I disagree with you 100%.
We can't have a good ending, it wouldn't fit in with the Mass Effect universe!
Yeah, right:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn6hFZ9jYMc

Your choices do matter? Get real. Show me one point in any part of the ending sequences where my choices change anything. I can make the exact opposite choices throughout all three games, and the exact same thing will still happen.
Sure, throughout the game things change, but that is crapped on in the ending. Here is what we can conclude:
All ships in the Sol system are at least 30 years away from their nearest port of call at regular FTL speeds, and over 100 years for the Quarians/Geth [Note: The galaxy is 100,000 light years across, and they live on pretty much the exact opposite side, and they can't travel through the galactic core, so they have to take an even more indirect route to Rannoch]. They are unlikely to have the supplies to make this journey (They are military vessels, not deep space exploration vessels. Quarian and Geth Ships being the only exceptions). All colonies that were not 100% self sufficient are now doomed to die out due to the amount of time it would take them to create a starship, get to the resources they need, then bring them back.
Galactic Civilization is destroyed. It is now galactic tribalism due to the loss of the relays.

Also note: Reaper motives make no sense.
I'm all for asking the audience to think about things, but make them think about the right things. Make them question the Reaper Motives, and who created them, not what happened to the galaxy and those they were told would have a conclusion to their story. Make them question whether the unity in the races will last, or if they will eventually split again - not whether any race survived after the attack. Imagine if the Star Wars Sesology ended like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4O5PRrWDT8
It would be crap.
There are perfectly legitimate reasons to be upset with the endings. I'm happy you enjoyed them, most didn't.

[Abram730]

kofelover wrote...

If I want harsh realism, I look to CNN World News, not my game library.

You put CNN and realism in the same sentence? Mistake?

Also, why not just rent disney movies?  Mass effect is rated M.

Modifié par Abram730, 24 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[Lexagg]

Well, good for you OP. I wish I did.

[Ryoten]

I honestly cant fathom how people like these endings. It's beyond me.

[Ryoten]

Also if i wanted realism, id step outside my house and get hit by a car. That cold hard reality.

[KingKhan03]

Ending*

[Unholy Misery]

 www.youtube.com/watch

[FortitudeSon]

As has been pointed out ad nauseam, this is not about a sunshine and puppies ending, it's about an ending that makes senses, and rewards our hours of gameplay and choices.

The current ending (singular for effect) is not connected to the rest of the story in any significant logical or thematic way, and does a major disservice from virtually every angle.

That said, there's no reason Bioware can't simply add DLC for ADDITIONAL endings, as opposed to a different ending entirely.

[Biotic Sage]

I loved the endings too. I was genuinely surprised by the amount of hatred I saw on the Internet after I finished the game and thought it was the best game of all time. Obviously I thought that it was going to be polarizing, but not almost universally despised by fans. Personally I think the spark of a vocal few at the very beginning spread like wildfire and infected people/colored their views before they could form their own. This whole phenomenon is extremely interesting to me, but it became scary when I realized that Bioware actually was considering retconning something I consider to be near perfect.

[Sublime82]

retic wrote...

I dont understand the tali pic haters when in fact, manshep, mirnda and dianna allers were all based on people IRL.

Well personally I would have much rather seen a real, ingame model of Tali's face than a hastily done photoshop of a stock photo from google images.  But that's just me.

[JPN17]

tontoodioso wrote...

I personally absolutely loved the ending(s) and would hate to see them  retconned. I believe that many people didn't like to have to make the hard choices and wanted a win all and save all scenario. This is unrealistic and would have made no sense in a galactic war with machines.

Further elaboration would be welcomed but don't change what is already there.

Read my full explanation on my thoughts here.

Edit: I am not a troll, I just appreciate the end as I know many others do, I am happy to hear your opinions and counter-arguments, but simply asserting I am wrong or a troll gets you nothing.

I take it you love circular logic and plot holes too.

[JPN17]

Biotic Sage wrote...
Personally I think the spark of a vocal few at the very beginning spread like wildfire and infected people/colored their views before they could form their own.

Nope, it's just most people realize the ending is riddled with plot holes that not only ruin the story of this game, but even the ones that it came from. It's something I didn't think was possible, but Bioware pulled it off.

[Sublime82]

Biotic Sage wrote...

I loved the endings too. I was genuinely surprised by the amount of hatred I saw on the Internet after I finished the game and thought it was the best game of all time. Obviously I thought that it was going to be polarizing, but not almost universally despised by fans. Personally I think the spark of a vocal few at the very beginning spread like wildfire and infected people/colored their views before they could form their own. This whole phenomenon is extremely interesting to me, but it became scary when I realized that Bioware actually was considering retconning something I consider to be near perfect.

I'm pretty sure it's just the fact that the endings are bad.  There are plenty of well written, satisfying stories where the protagonist sacrifices himself.  Mass Effect 3 is not one of them.. for reasons that have been discussed ad nauseam.

[WeAreLegionWTF]

did you all notice how every paid pro ender/reviewer uses the same canned and bioware approved arguments, most notably."I thought it was perfect" & "It would set a bad precedent.". or the condescending "well I understood it.".

What does bioware PR hand out a script for them to read along with their paychecks?

Modifié par WeAreLegionWTF, 24 mars 2012 - 06:00 .

[Biotic Sage]

Sublime82 wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

I loved the endings too. I was genuinely surprised by the amount of hatred I saw on the Internet after I finished the game and thought it was the best game of all time. Obviously I thought that it was going to be polarizing, but not almost universally despised by fans. Personally I think the spark of a vocal few at the very beginning spread like wildfire and infected people/colored their views before they could form their own. This whole phenomenon is extremely interesting to me, but it became scary when I realized that Bioware actually was considering retconning something I consider to be near perfect.

I'm pretty sure it's just the fact that the endings are bad.  There are plenty of well written, satisfying stories where the protagonist sacrifices himself.  Mass Effect 3 is not one of them.. for reasons that have been discussed ad nauseam.

I'm pretty sure that many people had not even gotten to the endings yet, and a vocal minority of hardcore fans that finished the game almost right after it came out took to the internet and yelled REALLY loudly, coloring the opinion of everyone going into the ending before they could actually form their own views.

And I have responded to these criticisms ad nauseam as well, but to be honest all of my responses have been largely ignored on this forum because people have already worked themselves into a Krogan bloodrage and it's far easier to stay entrenched and keep raging than to actually re-evaluate a perspective.