882 réponses à ce sujet

[Taritu]

Carfax wrote...

Avalla'ch wrote...

Well, not my case(since I easily identify with playing dude characters) but I am not sure if I understand you correctly.

Terrified as in... male players feeling threatened by these "strong" archetypes thus not being able to identify or something?

Yes, they can not identify with a strong masculine archetype because they feel threatened by it.  The hate that Vega got before the game launch was also indicative of this.  Vega is another strong, masculine archetype, and a lot of guys on here were hating on him just because of the way he looked..

That says something to me.  And when you consider that a significant percentage of the guys on here are probably of the typical nerd variety, then it begins to make sense, because those kind of guys tend to naturally be at odds with the Western ideals of masculinity.

*Shrug*  Not buying it. What I notice is that guys who hate the idea of playing women often have an undertone of fear.  It reminds me of the way homophobes tend to be closet homosexuals (there are actual scientific studies that back that up, feel free to do a search.)  Normal het guys don't give a damn if a guy is screwing another man as long as they don't hit on them.  They don't spend time thinking about it.  Hell, the more men screwing men, the better.  I'll take the women, thanks.

Nor do they need to play a man in a video game in order to "identify" with him.  

Western ideals of manlyness change pretty frequently.  A manly man in many periods dressed more finely than women and was expected to be able at the "gentle" arts of civilization (a gentleman).  Same thing with Samurai, depending on the period, as an aside--be a bruiser with a sword all you like, but if you can't extemporaneously come up with a poem, or do a tea ceremony, you're not a complete man.

In the end, it's a roleplaying game.  And yeah, if I'm going to stare at someone's butt for hundreds of hours, it might as well be a woman's butt.

[Taritu]

The whole spec op thing is valid. Except that in the future it's implied that there are implants and they may make the differences between male and female a round-off error.

And if your female Shepard is biotic, well, you take what you can get and biotic amplified strength does make normal physical strength virtually irrelevant.

I'll note that amongst the best snipers in history by kill count, a number have been female, and when you look at the Soviet Army (which actually used them) they did just fine. Pre-ME3 hitting people was really minor in ME.

Which is to say, if you want to suspend disbelief that a woman is an N7, it's more than possible to do so, between implants, biotics and the record of female snipers (female infiltrators). Being one of the best 10 snipers in history is still pretty damn impressive.

Modifié par Taritu, 28 mars 2012 - 05:32 .

[Tirigon]

Carfax wrote...


Yes, they can not identify with a strong masculine archetype because they feel threatened by it.  The hate that Vega got before the game launch was also indicative of this.  Vega is another strong, masculine archetype, and a lot of guys on here were hating on him just because of the way he looked.

Well but Vega doesnt realy look masculine to me. More like a Stripper who should have cut back on the steroids a little while ago.

[Carfax]

Janus Prospero wrote...

It's an interesting thought. Women typically don't have the physical strength of men, but from Olsen's perspective it wouldn't be about that. It seems like while the criteria for a woman getting into the SEALS might be more lax from a physical strength standpoint, they would be fulfilling somewhat different roles. Regardless, hell week breaks most men, so I'd love to meet the woman that makes it through that.

You don't have to be very strong to be a Navy Seal, but I'd definitely disagree that strength wouldn't be a factor.  You have to have some strength to make it through the training after all, and then to lug all of the gear around when you go on missions.

Endurance will be a more important factor though, but women aren't up to par with men on that either.  Also, susceptability to certain injuries is greater in women due to their lighter skeleton, as one guy said.

[Deflagratio]

Carfax wrote...

Janus Prospero wrote...

It's an interesting thought. Women typically don't have the physical strength of men, but from Olsen's perspective it wouldn't be about that. It seems like while the criteria for a woman getting into the SEALS might be more lax from a physical strength standpoint, they would be fulfilling somewhat different roles. Regardless, hell week breaks most men, so I'd love to meet the woman that makes it through that.

You don't have to be very strong to be a Navy Seal, but I'd definitely disagree that strength wouldn't be a factor.  You have to have some strength to make it through the training after all, and then to lug all of the gear around when you go on missions.

Endurance will be a more important factor though, but women aren't up to par with men on that either.  Also, susceptability to certain injuries is greater in women due to their lighter skeleton, as one guy said.

Biotic Femshep rectifies the sexual dimorphism issues, since all biotics are highly valued by the military. Also all soldiers in the alliance also undergo genetic enhancement, but it never specifies exactly what that entails, so that's open to interpretation.

[Artemis_Entrari]

As a male, I always run through games as a male character a couple of times.  I only attempt female characters after I've exhausted all options, and that's the only one left I haven't attempted.

For me, it comes down to roleplaying.  Taking on the role of the character, it's easier for me to do so if it's a male character.  I can put myself in their shoes, and make the kind of decisions they make.

This is especially true in games where there's romance options.  If my character is going to be flirting, it'll be with female party members because I can actually relate to a male hitting on a female.

[Indylavi]

Carfax wrote...
 
I didn't crawl out of a cave.  In fact, I'm a veteran myself, so I actually know what I'm talking about, unlike you.

I never said, or implied that there weren't any women in the Military.  How silly is that? 

What I meant was, there aren't any women that are at the elite Spec Ops level that Shepard is supposed to be.

No female elite Spec Ops? So I guess the female special forces of Israel, South Korea, Russian Spetsnaz, and even the British SSR are just made up? Just because the US Military doesn't have highly trained intergrated and/or strictly female units. Doesn't mean there aren't other nations that don't have them.

[Hydralysk]

Most of my characters are male Shepards since I do feel his voice is more immersive. Maybe it's because my first Shepard back in ME1 was male so my mind has made Mark Meer's voice Shepard's "true" voice for me. I'd always play through once as a femshep at least to see what it's like (at least I did with 1 and 2). Also, Garrus is my favorite character in the series, and I couldn't pass up a chance to romance him.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 28 mars 2012 - 06:25 .

[Janus Prospero]

When I first started Mass Effect I created a Male Infiltrator Shepard. I played a rogue in World of Warcraft and I love the whole...spy thing. So it seemed an appropriate choice. But in the end, I only had one goal: I wanted to bang an alien. (Don't judge me).

At the time I had a really difficult go at creating an attractive male Shepard, and even though I wasn't successful, I soldiered on. I got through the Citadel and both Garrus and Wrex established themselves as my favorite squadmates, but then some issues started to surface. I realized that there was some redundancies in my squad choice as both Garrus and I had the ability to hack stuff. Furthermore, I realized that I would have to do the majority of the gun-based damage, so in hindsight I started to wish that I had rolled a soldier. I started to think about rerolling as a solider and running with Garrus and Wrex. At the time I didn't know what the romance options were so I thought it might be cool to roll a female Shepard and attempt to hook up with Garrus as he was my favortie character and I dig the whole beauty and beast thing.

So I started over and rolled a female soldier, which was much easier to make attractive, and I've never looked back. I based her off of Ellen Ripley from the Alien series (Aliens is my all time favorite movie). I named her Ellen and made her a Spacer and Sole Survivor (just like Ripley). Sadly, I eventually found out that you couldn't romance Garrus and had to settle for Kaiden, but by then I had grown very attached to my Shepard. She's the only Shepard I played for years. When ME2 came out and it was revealed that Garrus actually was a romance option, I flipped my sh- ...I was pretty stoked.

I eventually did go back and create a couple male Shepards in ME1 (An engineer and an adept) in order to get 100% completon of the ME1 achievements. I transfered those characters into ME2. I eventually even managed to create a somewhat attractive looking male Shepard. But Ellen Shepard will always be my primary canon Shepard.

Modifié par Janus Prospero, 28 mars 2012 - 06:29 .

[barenas]

I've done at least two play throughs in each of the Mass Effect games. So I play both male shep and fem shep. I've always started off with male shep though.

Also, I don't see how anyone can complain about the two main voice actors. Both of them are fantastic in my opinion.

[Dreadstruck]

Indylavi wrote...
Women in Russian Spetsnaz

Never heard of any. Hell they are not even in the Airborne divisions and Viktor Suvorov is also very vague about any "female combatants"

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 28 mars 2012 - 10:03 .

[Irx]

I always play male characters and generally dislike when I'm forced to play females (even in games like Tomb Raider etc.)

The friends who usually play females say they prefer to watch females asses more than male. =) Probably a legit way to play barbie dolls which was discouraged when they were kids. -D

[Carfax]

Taritu wrote...

*Shrug*  Not buying it. What I notice is that guys who hate the idea of playing women often have an undertone of fear.  It reminds me of the way homophobes tend to be closet homosexuals (there are actual scientific studies that back that up, feel free to do a search.) 

I already know about those studies, and I'm very skeptical of them for a number of reasons.....number one reason being that the method used for determining sexual arousal isn't very accurate.  The same method they used in those studies, also showed women to be sexually aroused when watching chimpanzees (or some kind of monkey) mating.

And the term homophobe is really, really ridiculous.

Nor do they need to play a man in a video game in order to "identify" with him.

And yet the vast majority of video games feature male protagonists.  Why?  Because it's normal for men to identify more with other men and masculinity, as it is for women to identify more with other women and femininity.

Western ideals of manlyness change pretty frequently.  A manly man in many periods dressed more finely than women and was expected to be able at the "gentle" arts of civilization (a gentleman).  Same thing with Samurai, depending on the period, as an aside--be a bruiser with a sword all you like, but if you can't extemporaneously come up with a poem, or do a tea ceremony, you're not a complete man.

I'm talking about contemporary masculinity.

In the end, it's a roleplaying game.  And yeah, if I'm going to stare at someone's butt for hundreds of hours, it might as well be a woman's butt.

I don't care whether anyone wants to play MaleShep or FemShep, but I think the reasoning behind peoples' decisions is more subtle than most people think.

[Merci357]

Carfax wrote...

I don't care whether anyone wants to play MaleShep or FemShep,

Nothing else needs to be said.

[Carfax]

Taritu wrote...

The whole spec op thing is valid. Except that in the future it's implied that there are implants and they may make the differences between male and female a round-off error.

Unless you're talking about cybernetic implants, the implants don't increase physical performance.

And if your female Shepard is biotic, well, you take what you can get and biotic amplified strength does make normal physical strength virtually irrelevant.

This is true.

I'll note that amongst the best snipers in history by kill count, a number have been female, and when you look at the Soviet Army (which actually used them) they did just fine. Pre-ME3 hitting people was really minor in ME.

I understand what you mean, but the truth is a sniper's skill doesn't have anything to do with their kill count. 

[Carfax]

Indylavi wrote...

No female elite Spec Ops? So I guess the female special forces of Israel, South Korea, Russian Spetsnaz, and even the British SSR are just made up? Just because the US Military doesn't have highly trained intergrated and/or strictly female units. Doesn't mean there aren't other nations that don't have them.

The Israelis, British and Russians have no female spec ops units so check your sources.  S.Korea may have one I think, but since their military is largely inactive, it's not really a good example.

[Indylavi]

Carfax wrote...

Indylavi wrote...

No female elite Spec Ops? So I guess the female special forces of Israel, South Korea, Russian Spetsnaz, and even the British SSR are just made up? Just because the US Military doesn't have highly trained intergrated and/or strictly female units. Doesn't mean there aren't other nations that don't have them.

The Israelis, British and Russians have no female spec ops units so check your sources.  S.Korea may have one I think, but since their military is largely inactive, it's not really a good example.

Multiple examples of integrated operations forces

http://www.jewishvir...ure/womidf.html


http://en.wikipedia....ssance_Regiment
and
http://news.bbc.co.u...ews/4412907.stm

SSR is also an integrated operations unit.

Modifié par Indylavi, 28 mars 2012 - 07:05 .

[Phategod1]

Better voice acting Meer was a lot better this go round and I haven't used my femshep yet but His ME3 performance still pales to Hale's ME1 or 2 performance.

[J0HNL3I]

TornadoADV wrote...

Basically sexualizing and fantasizing from guys acting like pigs. (welcome to the gamer culture!)

Basically it, i play as male because if im meant to make my own choices say/ what i would etc it would seem weird coming from a female in-game

[Carfax]

Indylavi wrote...

Carfax wrote...

Indylavi wrote...

No female elite Spec Ops? So I guess the female special forces of Israel, South Korea, Russian Spetsnaz, and even the British SSR are just made up? Just because the US Military doesn't have highly trained intergrated and/or strictly female units. Doesn't mean there aren't other nations that don't have them.

The Israelis, British and Russians have no female spec ops units so check your sources.  S.Korea may have one I think, but since their military is largely inactive, it's not really a good example.

Multiple examples of integrated operations forces

http://www.jewishvir...ure/womidf.html


http://en.wikipedia....ssance_Regiment
and
http://news.bbc.co.u...ews/4412907.stm

SSR is also an integrated operations unit.

According to your BBC link, only some of the positions in SSR are open to women, which implies that while the regiment is integrated, combat oriented positions are still barred to women.

As for Israel, I'll partially concede that they have made use of female soldiers, and still do.  Why I say partially, the Israelis still don't have female operators in any of their elite units, and by elite, I'm talking about Shayetet 13, which is their version of the Navy Seals.

Israel is pretty much forced to use women at any rate, due to their small size (they have conscription for both sexes), and the fact that they are surrounded by belligerent, if not outright hostile nations.

[78stonewobble]

Han Shot First wrote...

Women are much more prone to stress fractures than men. That makes them less capable as infantrymen, generally.

The "generally" part was well hidden there.  

While one can make some general assumptions allways leave room for an individual to surprice you.

[Arkitekt]

I notice a lot of passive aggressiveness machismo coming from all those who can't get around the idea of men playing femsheps.... I wonder where this comes from.

[Jezwira]

There were actually some studies about this, is it the possibility of controlling a strong female? Being able to tell her what to do, who to do etc?

or just the ass

[Arkitekt]

Of course these people will deny any homophobia, any mysogeny, any psychological trauma of being considered "less" male on their youth... or something, while at the same time behaving like silly children berating or bullying others for their choices.

My money is on unsolved issues from childhood / teenagedom.

[Arkitekt]

Jezwira wrote...

There were actually some studies about this, is it the possibility of controlling a strong female? Being able to tell her what to do, who to do etc?

The idea of roleplaying a different gender without being a homossexual / bissexual (or having any "sexual issue") is just something that you cannot possibly understand. It's beyond your abilities.