882 réponses à ce sujet

[VanityUnfair]

Mary Sue buff bald male space marine savior of the galaxy hero of everything is passe.

[Carfax]

Lynata wrote...

Whilst that may be true, I believe this is because a lot of people are still stuck in 20th century thinking, probably due to religious indoctrination or simply the "values" taught during their upbringing. Hell, a couple decades ago, women weren't even allowed to vote. This kind of separation that had remained protected for a few millennia is hard to get out of peoples' heads, especially since it was endorsed by popular religious organizations and incorporated into their dogma.

Not, it's not due to anything of that sort.  It's completely natural to identify with one's own sex moreso than the opposite sex. 

If we didn't identify with our own sex first, then transgendered behaviour would be far more common, which would definitely not be a good thing.

In truth, "masculinity" and "feminity" are nothing but stereotypes imprinted onto people by whatever the contemporary culture teaches them. As Taritu mentioned on page 24, said stereotypes change depending on the era and culture you're looking at. It's not in people's genes, so unsurprisingly you can have macho women just like you can have wimpy men. Which makes steadfast separation by gender instead of character, physique or actual performance just a very obvious bias, just like it would be with race or ethnicity.

This isn't true.  Masculinity and femininity are both objective and subjective.  Objective because there are real hormones that create real biological changes and effects correspondent to both masculinity and femininity, and subjective because Society/Culture often determines what is acceptable or unacceptable behaviour for both men and women.

Fortunately, all this is in the process of changing towards equality - and the growing number of men and women playing game characters of a different gender is just one of many signs of this development.

If this equality can only come through laws and regulations, then is it real?  Or is it an illusion?

It does, and I'm not sure why South Korea currently not being in a war changes anything about their requirements or training.

A lot of countries have Militaries with special units, but there are very few countries with active Militaries.  And by active, I mean Militaries that are constantly engaged in significant war time activities across the globe.

At any rate, I admit I don't know much about the 707th Special Mission Battalion, but on their wiki page, it says:

The unit also has a small number of female special forces operatives. They are used in counter-terror operations where the presence of a woman is not seen as a threat to a terrorist

Link

Thats actually quite clever of them, because women are always viewed as less threatening.

Lastly, perhaps we should keep in mind that we're talking about Shepard, not Rambo. Whilst raw strength is an asset, this stopped being the most important thing in a soldier the moment humanity switched swords and clubs for firearms, as exemplified by countless female troops in active combat throughout the past century, including both world wars, and just because female fighting formations were dissolved soon after peace was restored doesn't change their stories of success, it only goes to show how big the obstacle is that the idea of a female warrior has to overcome.

I can tell you've never held a gun, because guns are often much heavier than swords.  The modern day infantryman carries more weight in terms of equipment, weapons etc than any previous warrior in history.  As time goes by, they keep packing on more weight, not reducing it.

If mass accelerated weapons did exist, I have no doubt they would be heavy as hell.....and thats not even considering the armor.

Modifié par Carfax, 28 mars 2012 - 06:38 .

[SilentNukee]

Pappi wrote...

Fellas I'm disapointed in you--you don't have to justify wanting to play a female character because you want to 'stare at her arse' - I'm going out on a limb here but I generally make the assumption that people who enjoy bioware games are people who are a little bit deeper than that. So I will say this: IT IS OKAY TO JUST WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

It is okay to play as a female character if you are male, you don't have to man it up by implying it gives you sexual pleasure. That is all.

I love you.

[Janus Prospero]

Neria Rose wrote...

This took a turn to me explaining why I don't play the opposite gender. My apologies.

Don't apologize. I actually think what you wrote is very germaine to the topic, super interesting, and sheds some light on how different people play these games differently.

Neria Rose wrote...

Appreciating a strong female character and playing a strong female character are two different things, though. At least for me. I've heard some people consider their characters as puppets or actors they're directing and that's fine. Personally, I like to get into my character's head and make their decisions that way. And I've said this in a million threads like this before, but since I love being female and viewing and interacting with my environment as a female, I completely lack any interest in trying it as any gender but my own.

Another thing is just perspective. A man may play as a woman or a woman as a man, but because most of us lack the same proportion of hormones and social upbringing as the opposite sex, I believe the odds we'd guess the 'most likely' response for our opposite gender character is unlikely. Obviously, you can always say "Well, I created this character and only I know how he/she will respond to x stimulus", and of course everyone is free to do that. But when I'm playing a character, I like being able to think that the character is acting in a way that would be typical for someone with her upbringing/background.

I have certainly used characters in games as avatars of myself, especially in MMOs. And that was my original intent with Mass Effect when it came out. That's just not how it wound up. It was an interesting experiment, and I'm glad I did it.

In hindsight, comparing a male gamer with a female Shepard to a movie fan appreciating Ripley probably wasn't the best analogy. A more apt analogy would be a male author writing a female character. I don't think Ripley is any less legitimate because James Cameron wrote the script for Aliens. I don't think Lisbeth Salander is any less legitimate because Stieg Larsson wrote her. And I don't think my Shepard is any less legitimate because I control her and pick her dialogue options.

Is there a lot of me in my female Shepard? Yes, but I pull from a lot of sources for any character I'm playing.
My Soldier is Me on a Good Day + Ellen Ripley
My Infiltrator is Me on a Bad Day + Jack Bauer
My Vanguard (which is the closest thing in Mass Effect I have to an author avatar) is Me + Jack Harkness

I think it's just a different way people approach role playing games. A lot of times it is fun inserting yourself into fantastic universes. But it's also fun putting yourself in a position that is much different from your own, seeing how characters react to you in that position, reflect on those interactions, and react accordingly. It's a good time to be a gamer. We are on the precipice of something amazing and I can't wait to see where we go from here.

[GarethJShep]

I bet men play female shep so they can Look at their Ass all Day! xD!

[Deviija]

It's entertaining to see how many use the 'if I got to stare at a butt for x hours, I rather it be a female' excuse/tired defense, especially because ME3's default camera angle does not go below the waist/hips unless you are actively running. And even then, there's not much to see in those armors.

[GarethJShep]

True tho xD

[jamesp81]

BULLETWASTER wrote...

 I notice that a lot of male players seem to play as a female Commander Shepard. My friend told me that he prefers femdhep because Jennifer Hale is a better voice actor than Mark Meer (not sure if that's his name). But from what I've heard I wouldn't say her voice acting is particularly good. Even her role as Naomi in MGS4 I found lacking. I find males like to play a female character in other games too and I've never understood the motivation. If I have a choice I always choose a male character because, being a male, I feel I can relate to the character more or see myself in their role. So why do guys play as female characters?

I almost always play male characters because I can relate to them more easily.  I thought Mark Meer did a fine job portraying Cmdr Shepard.

The only exception I've ever really made to this rule is with Dragon Age Origins.  I play a female human Warden because it opens up my favorite possible ending to that game.  In all other RPGs that give you a choice, however, I always play a male character.

[Tirigon]

Carfax wrote...


I can tell you've never held a gun, because guns are often much heavier than swords.  The modern day infantryman carries more weight in terms of equipment, weapons etc than any previous warrior in history.  As time goes by, they keep packing on more weight, not reducing it.

If mass accelerated weapons did exist, I have no doubt they would be heavy as hell.....and thats not even considering the armor.

I actually doubt that modern weaponry is heavier than a f*cking plate armor, but I will admit I have little experience with either so I have to accept it.... Either way, however, the armor in Mass Effect is poowered anyways and therefore strength is not an issue at all (if it was, do you think Kaidan could have joined the military, whiny weakling that he is?!)

[Tirigon]

Neria Rose wrote...

Appreciating a strong female character and playing a strong female character are two different things, though. At least for me. I've heard some people consider their characters as puppets or actors they're directing and that's fine. Personally, I like to get into my character's head and make their decisions that way. And I've said this in a million threads like this before, but since I love being female and viewing and interacting with my environment as a female, I completely lack any interest in trying it as any gender but my own.

Another thing is just perspective. A man may play as a woman or a woman as a man, but because most of us lack the same proportion of hormones and social upbringing as the opposite sex, I believe the odds we'd guess the 'most likely' response for our opposite gender character is unlikely. Obviously, you can always say "Well, I created this character and only I know how he/she will respond to x stimulus", and of course everyone is free to do that. But when I'm playing a character, I like being able to think that the character is acting in a way that would be typical for someone with her upbringing/background.

Implying gender is such a defining characteristic that it shapes all your moral decisiosn. It is not for me.

[zambingo]

brgillespie wrote...

82% of the fanbase doesn't play a female Shepard.

The ones that do probably haven't been laid in a while.

I'm 34. Married. 3 kids, another due on July.

But yeah, honestly you're right I haven't been laid in a while.

[Tirigon]

zambingo wrote...

brgillespie wrote...

82% of the fanbase doesn't play a female Shepard.

The ones that do probably haven't been laid in a while.

I'm 34. Married. 3 kids, another due on July.

But yeah, honestly you're right I haven't been laid in a while.

4 kids at age 34.

Ability to bear kids / impregnate a woman legally starts at 18, biologically usually earlier.
This means a minimum of 16 years---> 1 kid per 4 years ----> about 5 times sex until successful impregnation

CONCLUSION: OVER THE LAST 16 YEARS YOU HAVE BEEN LAID ONLY 20 TIMES.

Modifié par Tirigon, 28 mars 2012 - 09:07 .

[zambingo]

Indylavi wrote...

Carfax wrote...
 
I didn't crawl out of a cave.  In fact, I'm a veteran myself, so I actually know what I'm talking about, unlike you.

I never said, or implied that there weren't any women in the Military.  How silly is that? 

What I meant was, there aren't any women that are at the elite Spec Ops level that Shepard is supposed to be.

No female elite Spec Ops? So I guess the female special forces of Israel, South Korea, Russian Spetsnaz, and even the British SSR are just made up? Just because the US Military doesn't have highly trained intergrated and/or strictly female units. Doesn't mean there aren't other nations that don't have them.

Not to mention that, uhh, Mass Effect is fiction that takes place in the future and there's no reason to use any real world issues about women and fighting as reasoning for not playing a FemShep.

I adore FemShep, I also like BroShep. But I stick with FemShep because I'm tried of male protags dominating everything. I love Leia! Ripley! Sarah Conner! Leeloo! Janeway!

Playing FemShep provides me with a deliciousness called DIFFERENT!

Plus there is another bonus. I have a 6 yo daughter who watches me closely, as kids do. Granted I shoo her away from seeing several things in the game, but for the most part it's healthy to see a strong female hero on the screen. Specially one that Daddy thinks is so cool he plays as her. Because of FemShep my daughter plays with her brother's Star Wars figures and proudly pronounces that, "Girls can kick butt!"

Having a broad view (no pun intended) of life and our roles in it is a good thing.

[zambingo]

Tirigon wrote...


CONCLUSION: OVER THE LAST 16 YEARS YOU HAVE BEEN LAID ONLY 20 TIMES.

[counts on fingers] Seems about right! LMAO

[Tirigon]

zambingo wrote...

Tirigon wrote...


CONCLUSION: OVER THE LAST 16 YEARS YOU HAVE BEEN LAID ONLY 20 TIMES.

[counts on fingers] Seems about right! LMAO

My troll logic is infallible. It can not be refuted or denied, nor proven wrong.

[sheppard7]

Why don't the mods just merge these threads? They merge threads that don't even talk about the exact same subject matter like these do.

[Lynata]

Carfax wrote...
Not, it's not due to anything of that sort.  It's completely natural to identify with one's own sex moreso than the opposite sex.

"Natural" in that mankind has a tendency to organize in exclusive groups using the aforementioned categorizations, yes. You sound as if hormones, gender and personality are inseparable factors, however, and this is clearly wrong. If we were to judge persons equally, we should judge them based on how they act and how they perform. Using gender alone as an indicator for performance is about as accurate as judging people based on their first name.

Which, funny enough, reportedly happens as well. We're quite a silly culture, aren't we?

Carfax wrote...
If this equality can only come through laws and regulations, then is it real?  Or is it an illusion?

You do realize that it is laws and regulations that have kept women out of the military for so long, don't you? In this light, doesn't it seem likely that your perception is based on an illusion?

As I said, somewhat similar to the situation coloured people faced a few decades ago. Open up every position and test everyone equally. Also remove the lower entry requirements for female soldiers on the current positions (where they exist), as all they do is support an existing bias.

Basically, do it like Australia:
"If an individual woman has got the physical, mental and psychological
capacity to do a job, then if they can do the job on merit, pass the
same standards that a man passes, qualify in the same way a man does,
then she should not be excluded."
http://www.sbs.com.a...al-forces-units

Personally, I would also force certain religious organizations to stop preaching sexism, but I suppose they should be left alone as per religious freedom. It could be worth bringing this topic into the classrooms, however, in an attempt to deal with the existing prejudice. For example by taking a look at history - how many people know there were actually female knights in medieval times? Until the Pope had them banned, that is, just like female warriors were banned in the territories converted to the faith.
You just don't see this stuff taught in school, and I think the lack of this knowledge adds to the bias.

Carfax wrote...
At any rate, I admit I don't know much about the 707th Special Mission Battalion, but on their wiki page, it says:

The unit also has a small number of female special forces operatives. They are used in counter-terror operations where the presence of a woman is not seen as a threat to a terrorist

So? This is not their only role, and neither do their requirements or training differ from the male soldiers. Frankly, that line sounds quite misleading, perhaps intentionally so.

They wouldn't train for infantry combat in sub-zero temperatures if they'd only act as "infiltrators".
http://www.spiegel.d...635-iframe.html

Carfax wrote...
I can tell you've never held a gun, because guns are often much heavier than swords.  The modern day infantryman carries more weight in terms of equipment, weapons etc than any previous warrior in history.  As time goes by, they keep packing on more weight, not reducing it.

Well, looks like you don't know what you are talking about, for I have held both a gun (G36 during my time with the German Air Force) as well as a blade (reenactment bastard sword). Perhaps we've had different experiences with female soldiers, but my squad was nearly 50% female, including our sergeant - serving with them is how I've come to adopt my current stance.

And my reference was not about carrying the stuff (which should be self-explanatory and which female soldiers already do), it was about using it. Sorry if I've been unclear there, I did not think it could have been misinterpreted. Anyways, the damage you can inflict with a sword or a warhammer is directly connected to the physical strength of its user - with a rifle you simply pull the trigger, which leaves the weapon's own weight and its recoil as the only potential factors making it difficult to wield. The bullet won't fly faster regardless of whether it is fired by a man or a woman, as the exploits of various female snipers have shown ... or continue to show.

Carfax wrote...
If mass accelerated weapons did exist, I have no doubt they would be heavy as hell.....and thats not even considering the armor.

Because ... why, it happens to suit your argument? People in ME don't seem to have a problem using them. In fact, the evolution of weapons technology and materials might well make them much lighter than even the G36 - which, as you may know, is as reliable as its "full metal" G3 predecessor yet much lighter due to the use of carbon fiber components. I for one doubt the guns in Mass Effect are made of simple steel. The metallic sheen might indicate a hybrid alloy though, as light as plastic but as durable as titanium. Welcome to sci-fi.

The armour in ME often comes with various bonuses, for example to melee damage or to health, hinting at powered components somehow augmenting the user, so maybe instead of slowing him or her down, such a suit of armour actually makes him/her stronger?

Lastly, there's implants. With the Armali sniper teams we have an in-game example of soldiers boosting their physical strength with cybernetics in order to wield a 39kg sniper rifle.

I really don't see the problem.

[fairandbalancedfan]

I like to play as female commander shepard because it has always been my fantasy to cross dress in a fictional universe and get it on with hawt alien chicks and dudes.

I also like to relieve my anxiety to my female shepard because my sex life is even more pathetic than Jeff Moreau's.

Modifié par fairandbalancedfan, 28 mars 2012 - 09:38 .

[Nicodemus]

Easy, because the option was there and I decided to take it. I so enjoyed the voice acting and playing a kick arse female lead that I've been choosing to play female characters in other games.

That's the beauty of playing a ROLEPLAYING game, it makes you think outside of the box.

[bossk-office]

Deviija wrote...
It's entertaining to see how many use the 'if I got to stare at a butt for x hours, I rather it be a female' excuse/tired defense, especially because ME3's default camera angle does not go below the waist/hips unless you are actively running.

I think peope run all the time in Mass Effect games, though ... if they didn’t I don’t think anyone would have had time to finish even Mass Effect 2 by now. Maybe Mass Effect 1.

Modifié par panchamkauns, 28 mars 2012 - 09:47 .

[Neria Rose]

Tirigon wrote...

Implying gender is such a defining characteristic that it shapes all your moral decisiosn. It is not for me.

I didn't say anything about morality. I am talking about decisions made in general. Deciding whether you'd prefer a blue or pink car (random situation pulled out of my tookus) has nothing to do with morality, but there could be a correlation between gender and which color car is chosen (again, just an example, not a real study).

Modifié par Neria Rose, 28 mars 2012 - 10:52 .

[Tirigon]

Lynata wrote...
Because ... why, it happens to suit your argument? People in ME don't seem to have a problem using them. In fact, the evolution of weapons technology and materials might well make them much lighter than even the G36 - which, as you may know, is as reliable as its "full metal" G3 predecessor yet much lighter due to the use of carbon fiber components. I for one doubt the guns in Mass Effect are made of simple steel. The metallic sheen might indicate a hybrid alloy though, as light as plastic but as durable as titanium. Welcome to sci-fi.

Since the Mass Effect alters mass it is not an issue anyways. Hell, you could probably modify your rifle to be lighter than air so you can keep it on a string hovering behind you.... (although doing so would not be very intelligent).

The armour in ME often comes with various bonuses, for example to melee damage or to health, hinting at powered components somehow augmenting the user, so maybe instead of slowing him or her down, such a suit of armour actually makes him/her stronger?

That is the case, it is stated somewhere in the codex that all high-level operative combat armor is powered to increase physical strength and stamina.

[Deflagratio]

Deviija wrote...


It's entertaining to see how many use the 'if I got to stare at a butt for x hours, I rather it be a female' excuse/tired defense, especially because ME3's default camera angle does not go below the waist/hips unless you are actively running. And even then, there's not much to see in those armors.

Hips and waist are sexy too. Some of the armor highlights particular remale assets quite well too. Armax Arsenal Torso/Shoulders with Hane-Kedar Legs/Arms in particular is pretty nice, while retaining enough dignity to pass as a hyper badass killing machine.

[Janus Prospero]

Neria Rose wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Implying gender is such a defining characteristic that it shapes all your moral decisiosn. It is not for me.

I didn't say anything about morality. I am talking about decisions made in general. Deciding whether you'd prefer a blue or pink car (random situation pulled out of my tookus) has nothing to do with morality, but there could be a correlation between gender and which color car is chosen (again, just an example, not a real study).

But things like "prefers pink to blue" isn't inherent to gender, it's a societal construction. And the great thing about playing around in a sci-fi universe is that you can explore alternate societal standards and pressures.

I would highly recommend anyone interested in this subject to watch the Extra Credits episode on True Female Characters: Extra Credits - True Female Characters

[nin_compoop]

I play both genders mostly for the different voice acting. It makes the different playthroughs a little more different.