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Why do men like to play as a female Shepard?


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#651
Tirigon

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Neria Rose wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Implying gender is such a defining characteristic that it shapes all your moral decisiosn. It is not for me.


I didn't say anything about morality. I am talking about decisions made in general. Deciding whether you'd prefer a blue or pink car (random situation pulled out of my tookus) has nothing to do with morality, but there could be a correlation between gender and which color car is chosen (again, just an example, not a real study).


Such decisions are not influenced by gender, they are, if at all, influenced by society's gender stereotypes.
For example, women are more likely to like pink than men are. That is a fact although there are obviously men (me included) who love pink, and women who dont.

HOWEVER: There is no biological reason for this. Women dont have some sensor that reacts positively on pink light or... whatever.

It is purely caused by peer pressure. In this example it goes like that:
Pink is associated with women because... well... I have no idea. But we all know it is, hence why baby clothing for girls is full of pink, and barbie wears pink etc.
Therefore, pink is also associated with a lack of manliness and homosexuality.
Because homosexuality was for a long time considered something bad (for some it still is), many men do not want to be seen as gay.
Ultimately this leads to men avoiding pink.

#652
Tirranek

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For me anyway, it's because no matter your playstyle, 'femshep' is a very atypical female lead, which makes the series more interesting to me.

#653
Quionic

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 Because I am confused about  my sexuality.  Well, that's what idiots would have you believe anyway.
I just like female chaaracters more than males. 

#654
NUM13ER

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I have different playthroughs and whilst my main is a male version of Shep, I do have other versions that are female just for a different feel and some altered dialogue.

I find the whole "don't wanna stare at a dudes ass" excuse amusing as it implies a bunch of gamers specifically avoid male Shep lest they be transfixed by his ass mid-combat.

#655
Neria Rose

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Janus Prospero wrote...

But things like "prefers pink to blue" isn't inherent to gender, it's a societal construction. And the great thing about playing around in a sci-fi universe is that you can explore alternate societal standards and pressures.

I would highly recommend anyone interested in this subject to watch the Extra Credits episode on True Female Characters: Extra Credits - True Female Characters


I know it's due to environment and not gender, hence my mention of "societal upbringing" in the post before that one. But that doesn't change the fact that, due to what essentially amounts to training, a woman is probably more likely to pick pink and a man blue. It's like being trained to say "please" and "thank you". You just do it, you don't really think about it.

But then that also goes to personal preferences. I'm comfortable with most (most but definitely not all, mind you) American societal standards as they stand right now, so there's nothing I feel the need to explore.

#656
What a Succulent Ass

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I find the whole pink/blue dichotomy odd. It used to be the other way around years back.

#657
Neria Rose

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Tirigon wrote...

Such decisions are not influenced by gender, they are, if at all, influenced by society's gender stereotypes.
For example, women are more likely to like pink than men are. That is a fact although there are obviously men (me included) who love pink, and women who dont.

HOWEVER: There is no biological reason for this. Women dont have some sensor that reacts positively on pink light or... whatever.

It is purely caused by peer pressure. In this example it goes like that:
Pink is associated with women because... well... I have no idea. But we all know it is, hence why baby clothing for girls is full of pink, and barbie wears pink etc.
Therefore, pink is also associated with a lack of manliness and homosexuality.
Because homosexuality was for a long time considered something bad (for some it still is), many men do not want to be seen as gay.
Ultimately this leads to men avoiding pink.


Quite right, it is entirely based on how we are brought up. And I don't know who chose pink to be a woman's color either, although I am fond of it.

But the point is, once it's ingrained in the average man/woman, then the average man/woman will think and behave accordingly. Of course, I'm assuming all of this based on various documentaries and specials over the years, I have no official background in the subject (majored in Animal Science, tbh). Someone with more credentials in the field would be better able to discuss it, methinks.

#658
FlyingWalrus

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I like women.

I like badass women.

FemShep is both.

No more justification necessary.

#659
Uszi

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Honestly, just started my first Femshep, because I realized after playing the games for hundreds of hours I was missing like half the content as far as voice acting goes.

I don't know, Samus being a chick never ruined Metroid games for me. In fact, I think I like them better since the female super soldier lead isn't the same played out Ubermensch we've seen for like 80 years in popular media.

#660
Eterna

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I don't need to play a male character to assure myself and friends of my sexuality and confidence in my manhood. I feel sorry for the sheep that do.

#661
mauro2222

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I like differences. FemShep has a different voice, different dialogue, different romances. I was going to say animations, but... we all know the answer haha xD

If that makes me less "man", bring it! I'll spread my penis over your face :lol:

Modifié par mauro2222, 29 mars 2012 - 01:48 .


#662
Acidrain92

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I always play as male shepard, and find men who play as femshep to be quite...odd.

I always thought that we as the player were putting our personalities into commander shepard a bit, and trying to relate to him as a character, so thats why I always pick male shep O: easier to relate to.

I guess some people are just into mass effect for different reasons.

#663
Td1984

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Nepp wrote...

If im gunna play a character for hours, I'd rather stare at ****** and ass than a guy's ass.

This.

I have 4 Sheps in all (2 of each gender). I will admit that there are two reasons I like playing as a FShep: one being what Nepp said and two being that I prefer Jennifer Hale's VA work at times. 

#664
daecath

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Lynata wrote...
In truth, "masculinity" and "feminity" are nothing but stereotypes imprinted onto people by whatever the contemporary culture teaches them. As Taritu mentioned on page 24, said stereotypes change depending on the era and culture you're looking at. It's not in people's genes, so unsurprisingly you can have macho women just like you can have wimpy men. Which makes steadfast separation by gender instead of character, physique or actual performance just a very obvious bias, just like it would be with race or ethnicity.

Fortunately, all this is in the process of changing towards equality - and the growing number of men and women playing game characters of a different gender is just one of many signs of this development.


And with Shepard in particular, we should keep in mind that he or she isn't just some infantryman. He or she is a leader - this is what sets Shep apart from the others. The ability to inspire, to evaluate others and utilize their potential to the fullest. This has nothing to do with muscles but with intelligence, charisma and determination.


First, while I like most of what you said, especially here, I'd just like to point out one glaring problem with what you wrote. "...you can have macho women just like you can have wimpy men." That right there says it all. In our society, generally speaking, it's acceptable for a woman to have "masculine" traits. For a woman to enjoy sports, or be the boss, or play video games, or all those other things that have been considered stereotypically masculine. Yet when a man has traits that are considered stereotypically feminine - strong emotions, nurturing, etc. - it is considered a negitive. It's typically associated with either transexuality or homosexuality. I've seen interviews with many famous women where they call themselves "tom-boys", none of whom anyone would ever think to question about their gender identity or sexual preference. Yet the closest comparable male term - sissy - is seen as a strong negative, with connotations attached about that person's gender identity or sexual preference.

That's one of the things that makes the Mass Effect series so good. They present diversity, and they do it in such a way that for the most part, you don't even notice (unless you're particularly sensitive to that sort of thing). Ashley is a great soldier, and a religious person. Kaiden I would actually say comes accross at times as sensitive (which is one reason why I hate that they made him gay in the 3rd game - stop buying into the stereotypes!), James is black, Vega is hispanic, and he's gay, etc. etc. etc. Yet they aren't in your face about it. All the legislature, all the censoring, all the talking about tolerance - all it does is put up more walls. If we really want to end bigotry and discrimination, the best way is to take away its power. Realize that words have no meaning except what is agreed upon between speaker and listener (or author/reader). If the listener rejects the meaning the speaker tries to give it, that word loses power. (Or put another way, "sticks and stones..."). Show people that - no matter their skin color, gender, sexual orientation, favorite brand of shoe, or what they had for breakfast - people are just people. It becomes much harder to hate someone who's gay when you see them weeping for their dead husband. It becomes much harder to make fun of the sensitive guy after he gets blown up saving your rear from an atomic bomb. And so on.

Ok, getting of my soap box now. :)

#665
TheMerchantMan

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Don't get the whole "staring at ass" thing. I mean, I'm not disparaging you fellas, I played an Asari Vanguard in MP for the same reason. I enjoy T&A as much as the rest of you.

But honestly, I can't really think of it like that, I self-insert myself into the character, when I'm playing as ManShep I'm never thinking "jeez I'm staring at some guy's ass right now" for one, I don't, I'm focused ahead. And the other is I literally imagine myself as Shepard. At worst, I'm staring at my ass. And I have no problem with that.

#666
Acidrain92

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TheMerchantMan wrote...

Don't get the whole "staring at ass" thing. I mean, I'm not disparaging you fellas, I played an Asari Vanguard in MP for the same reason. I enjoy T&A as much as the rest of you.

But honestly, I can't really think of it like that, I self-insert myself into the character, when I'm playing as ManShep I'm never thinking "jeez I'm staring at some guy's ass right now" for one, I don't, I'm focused ahead. And the other is I literally imagine myself as Shepard. At worst, I'm staring at my ass. And I have no problem with that.


I feel pretty much the same way =| why would I stare at my own ass?

#667
Zomgiwon9740

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Male Shepard's voice acting is ****ing horrid. Jennifer Hale isn't that great either, but his is ****ing dumb.

#668
Shepard108278

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Nepp wrote...

If im gunna play a character for hours, I'd rather stare at ****** and ass than a guy's ass.

^this! Plus her VA is way better.

#669
Bank92

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A couple of reasons, Jennifer Hale is awesome and there's enough male space soldiers as main characters in video games already.

#670
someone else

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...cause we're all flippin' closet queen cross-dressers. Why else? [bannable comment deleted]

#671
Carfax

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[quote]Lynata wrote...

"Natural" in that mankind has a tendency to organize in exclusive groups using the aforementioned categorizations, yes.[/quote]
 
Are you implying that separating men and women into two different groups is wrong?  So men and women should use the same bathrooms, showers etc....?



[quote]You sound as if hormones, gender and personality are inseparable factors, however, and this is clearly wrong. If we were to judge persons equally, we should judge them based on how they act and how they perform. Using gender alone as an indicator for performance is about as accurate as judging people based on their first name[/quote]

Well if it sounds that way, it certainly wasn't my intention since I know that hormones are DIRECTLY responsible for your gender in so many ways, and have a strong influence on your personality.

Also, I don't know how you can say gender alone isn't a strong indicator of performance.  If it isn't, then why do men and women not compete against each other in sporting events?


[quote]You do realize that it is laws and regulations that have kept women out of the military for so long, don't you? In this light, doesn't it seem likely that your perception is based on an illusion?[/quote]

Most laws exist for a reason.  In this case (specifically women in combat), they exist because women are typically weaker than men, slower reaction times and movement speed, greater susceptability to PTSD, more prone to injury, have less endurance, less aggressive etc....  These discrepancies are due to inherent physiological differences.

As a result, most cultures and societies have opted not to send their women into direct combat because they have less of a chance of survival than men.  Also, not one single culture or civilization has never relied solely on it's women for defense, unlike men..

Not a single one.  That alone says something right there.


[quote]As I said, somewhat similar to the situation coloured people faced a few decades ago. Open up every position and test everyone equally.[/quote]

You can't compare the situation with minorities with women in combat.  A black man is still a man.  A woman (of any color) on the other hand, is fundamentally different from a man in so many ways.


[quote]Also remove the lower entry requirements for female soldiers on the current positions (where they exist), as all they do is support an existing bias.[/quote]

If they did this, there would only be a handful of women in the Military, as most of them would not be able to meet the same standards that are imposed on men.

[quote]Basically, do it like Australia:
"If an individual woman has got the physical, mental and psychological
capacity to do a job, then if they can do the job on merit, pass the
same standards that a man passes, qualify in the same way a man does,
then she should not be excluded."

http://www.sbs.com.a...al-forces-units[/quote]

I don't know how the German Military does it, but most militaries (including both the U.S and Israel) have different physical standards for men and women.  This is needed, because women simply cannot compete on the same level as men.


[quote]For example by taking a look at history - how many people know there were actually female knights in medieval times? Until the Pope had them banned, that is, just like female warriors were banned in the territories converted to the faith.[/quote]
 
The term Knight is just a title, so it doesn't necessarily mean you were fighting in wars and battles if you were a "Knight."

There were female Knights, but they did not fight in battles or war as far as I know.


[quote]So? This is not their only role, and neither do their requirements or training differ from the male soldiers. Frankly, that line sounds quite misleading, perhaps intentionally so.

They wouldn't train for infantry combat in sub-zero temperatures if they'd only act as "infiltrators".
http://www.spiegel.d...635-iframe.html[/quote]

I don't know enough about this particular regiment to say anything specific, so I'll refrain from doing so.


[quote]Well, looks like you don't know what you are talking about, for I have held both a gun (G36 during my time with the German Air Force) as well as a blade (reenactment bastard sword). Perhaps we've had different experiences with female soldiers, but my squad was nearly 50% female, including our sergeant - serving with them is how I've come to adopt my current stance.[/quote]

I made a mistake, sorry about that.  Anyway, so if you have held a gun, you know how heavy they can be.  Put some body armor, gear, ammo and equipment on, and you could have anywhere from 60 to 130lbs of extra weight.


[quote]And my reference was not about carrying the stuff (which should be self-explanatory and which female soldiers already do), it was about using it.[/quote]

Women don't carry the weight in the same capacity that men do.  Thats why I mentioned active Militaries earlier.  

A lot of nations that employ women in combat roles, do not have active Militaries and thus do not send their women out into enemy territory for extended periods of time to fight.

Very, very few women (if any) could handle the weight of gear and ammo for long periods of time (which is a requirement for infantry) without getting stress fractures.

Few men can handle that sort of physical punishment either.


[quote]Sorry if I've been unclear there, I did not think it could have been misinterpreted. Anyways, the damage you can inflict with a sword or a warhammer is directly connected to the physical strength of its user - with a rifle you simply pull the trigger, which leaves the weapon's own weight and its recoil as the only potential factors making it difficult to wield. The bullet won't fly faster regardless of whether it is fired by a man or a woman, as the exploits of various female snipers have shown ... or continue to show.[/quote]

OK gotcha! 

[quote]Lastly, there's implants. With the Armali sniper teams we have an in-game example of soldiers boosting their physical strength with cybernetics in order to wield a 39kg sniper rifle.

I really don't see the problem.
[/quote]

I agree that in the context of the Mass Effect Universe, weapon and armor weight would have little bearing due to supposed technological advances like mechanized armor.

Modifié par Carfax, 29 mars 2012 - 09:24 .


#672
Carfax

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Tirigon wrote...

I actually doubt that modern weaponry is heavier than a f*cking plate armor, but I will admit I have little experience with either so I have to accept it


I never said or implied that modern weaponry is heavier than plate armor.  I said guns can be much heavier than swords.  The heaviest functional swords weighed no more than 8lbs or so, compared to something like an M-240 machine gun that can weigh 30lbs.

Quality plate armor probably weighs around 50lbs, but a man wearing it was probably on horseback most of the time lets not forget.

#673
abaris

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Acidrain92 wrote...

I always thought that we as the player were putting our personalities into commander shepard a bit, and trying to relate to him as a character, so thats why I always pick male shep O: easier to relate to.


If I were to put my personality into shep, he would run away from every fight and would spend sleepless nights if he accidentally hurt someone.

You were right in observing that people play Mass Effect for different reasons.

#674
Tirigon

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daecath wrote...
 Yet the closest comparable male term - sissy - is seen as a strong negative, with connotations attached about that person's gender identity or sexual preference.


And rightly so! Being a sissy is not a good thing if you are a man, men should be manly and glorious.

The common misconception however is that things like being emotional, or being houseman rather than "bring in the prey" while the wife does that children business is seen as a sign of sissiness. It is not. In fact, staying at home to care for one's children (or indeed any other business that involves caring for people, it can be caring for elders as well, for example) takes a lot more guts than doing a traditional man's job.
And admitting one's feelings takes a lot more strength than shrugging everything off with a "no big deal, bro, don't worry".

Manliness is an attitude rather than fulfilling society's stereotypes.















mauro2222 wrote...

I like differences. FemShep has a
different voice, different dialogue, different romances. I was going to
say animations, but... we all know the answer haha xD

If that makes me less "man", bring it! I'll spread my penis over your face [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]


Please accept my friend request [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

#675
Tirigon

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Carfax wrote...

For example by taking a look at history - how many people know there were actually female knights in medieval times? Until the Pope had them banned, that is, just like female warriors were banned in the territories converted to the faith.

 
The term Knight is just a title, so it doesn't necessarily mean you were fighting in wars and battles if you were a "Knight."

There were female Knights, but they did not fight in battles or war as far as I know.


Knights had to fight to be even made knights. The only way for a knight not to fight was if there were no fights during their lifetime. Which, given their affinity to start battles just for the fun of it, was very unlikely.



I made a mistake, sorry about that.  Anyway, so if you have held a gun, you know how heavy they can be.  Put some body armor, gear, ammo and equipment on, and you could have anywhere from 60 to 130lbs of extra weight.

That is no big deal for a strong, trained woman. On the other hand it would be a lot for an untrained man.


Women don't carry the weight in the same capacity that men do.  Thats why I mentioned active Militaries earlier.  

A lot of nations that employ women in combat roles, do not have active Militaries and thus do not send their women out into enemy territory for extended periods of time to fight.

Very, very few women (if any) could handle the weight of gear and ammo for long periods of time (which is a requirement for infantry) without getting stress fractures.

Few men can handle that sort of physical punishment either.

Your last sentence, which is indeed correct, invalidates your entire point. You just admitted YOURSELF that strength depends more on individual traits and exercise than gender.