Aller au contenu

Photo

Art Style


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
435 réponses à ce sujet

#251
Mr Fixit

Mr Fixit
  • Members
  • 550 messages

bEVEsthda wrote...

Whatever they are, why can't they look like and be labeled as elves? That doesn't really matter, does it? I mean it's the role they have in the game that matters,


That's a good point. But what exactly is their role in the games? Again, just compare them to qunari, or even to dwarves, and notice the difference, the blandness of concept behind them.

bEVEsthda wrote...

What trait sets them apart? How about ethnically different, racism?


Now here is where we're in full agreement. I would love to see a detailed exploration of these very issues in future DA games, and not just in a throwaway manner as in the first two games. As a means of facing humanity's own inner demons, I believe elves could have a place in DA lore. Seeing how this issue has been dealt with, however, I am not very optimistic.

#252
Melca36

Melca36
  • Members
  • 5 810 messages
And why did the badly rendered 2D Elves look the way they did?

Posted Image

They dont even resemble the elves redesign. LOL

#253
syllogi

syllogi
  • Members
  • 7 256 messages

Melca36 wrote...

And why did the badly rendered 2D Elves look the way they did?

They dont even resemble the elves redesign. LOL


If they were planning to use those models for scenes where they needed to show crowds far away and out of reach, fair enough, but actually using those to fill in crowds around Kirkwall was an awful idea.  It's bad enough that they filled the rest in with quintuplets and sextuplets of animated NPCs.

#254
Brockololly

Brockololly
  • Members
  • 9 032 messages

Adanu wrote...

Nah. I like the new elf style. Do you *really* want a human only world in a FANTASY setting? That was be completely and utterly boring for my part.


Human only (or mostly at least) works pretty well for Game of Thrones/ A Song of Ice and Fire.

#255
Das Tentakel

Das Tentakel
  • Members
  • 1 321 messages

Brockololly wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Nah. I like the new elf style. Do you *really* want a human only world in a FANTASY setting? That was be completely and utterly boring for my part.


Human only (or mostly at least) works pretty well for Game of Thrones/ A Song of Ice and Fire.


Much of non-Tolkien derived fantasy lacks nonhumans anyway; they have to do with such minutiae like good writing, great characters and / or interesting cultures and mentalities that are different from modern western societies. 

From a marketing perspective a nightmare (hard to claim 'comparable to Tolkien at his best':().
Unless it's really good and becomes gradually very succesful. But I have friends who initially rejected Game of Thrones because it lacked Elves & Dwarves<_<. The same individuals loved Shannara in its day :sick:

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 25 mars 2012 - 06:14 .


#256
Merilsell

Merilsell
  • Members
  • 2 927 messages

Melca36 wrote...

And why did the badly rendered 2D Elves look the way they did?

Posted Image

They dont even resemble the elves redesign. LOL



But somehow their look awakened in me the urge to play Zelda: Ocarina of Time again. I don't know why. :bandit:

#257
LPPrince

LPPrince
  • Members
  • 54 962 messages

Melca36 wrote...

And why did the badly rendered 2D Elves look the way they did?

Posted Image

They dont even resemble the elves redesign. LOL


Yeah, that's what I call total busch league.

Ugh.

#258
LPPrince

LPPrince
  • Members
  • 54 962 messages

Brockololly wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Nah. I like the new elf style. Do you *really* want a human only world in a FANTASY setting? That was be completely and utterly boring for my part.


Human only (or mostly at least) works pretty well for Game of Thrones/ A Song of Ice and Fire.


Mostly, but yeah, it works.

Hell, point at Daenerys and Vyseris Targaryen without telling someone they're human and occasionally you'll find someone who thinks they're elves, just due to their facial features and role in the show(speaking of Game of Thrones the program, of course not the books).

At least that's what I've found.

#259
Das Tentakel

Das Tentakel
  • Members
  • 1 321 messages

LPPrince wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

And why did the badly rendered 2D Elves look the way they did?

They dont even resemble the elves redesign. LOL


Yeah, that's what I call total busch league.

Ugh.


Oh, come on. They're state of the art. ;)

Well, at least they were back in 2000:whistle:

#260
Melca36

Melca36
  • Members
  • 5 810 messages
Here is an example of one of the silent NPCs that were scattered around in Denerim

Posted Image





And here is a Kirkwall silent citizen

Posted Image



Before DA:2 came out, there were interviews describing Kirkwall as being full of life. Those 2D characters made the city look like it was dying.

Modifié par Melca36, 25 mars 2012 - 06:42 .


#261
Das Tentakel

Das Tentakel
  • Members
  • 1 321 messages

Adanu wrote...

Nah. I like the new elf style. Do you *really* want a human only world in a FANTASY setting? That was be completely and utterly boring for my part.


...and in an attempt to elevate the intellectual level of the discussion:

Posted Image

Yaaaaay! Elfen über alles!

Posted Image

Don't mind us, we're just boring, lame humans...

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 25 mars 2012 - 06:50 .


#262
upsettingshorts

upsettingshorts
  • Members
  • 13 950 messages

LPPrince wrote...

Yeah, that's what I call total busch league.

Ugh.


Crappy engine is crappy.

#263
Das Tentakel

Das Tentakel
  • Members
  • 1 321 messages

Melca36 wrote...

...here is a Kirkwall silent citizen

Posted Image

Before DA:2 came out, there were interviews describing Kirkwall as being full of life. Those 2D characters made the city look like it was dying.


It's a question of intellectual gymnastics, in order to convince yourself of the graphical awesomeness of the new art style.
Consider it a HD remake of an RPG from the year 2000, for instanceB)

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 25 mars 2012 - 06:45 .


#264
LPPrince

LPPrince
  • Members
  • 54 962 messages

Melca36 wrote...


Here is an example of one of the silent NPCs that were scattered around in Denerim

Posted Image





And here is a Kirkwall silent citizen

Posted Image



Before DA:2 came out, there were interviews describing Kirkwall as being full of life. Those 2D characters made the city look like it was dying.


Kirkwall being full of life my ass.

Lothering in DAO was more full of life than Kirkwall.

I'm dead serious, go back and check.

#265
LPPrince

LPPrince
  • Members
  • 54 962 messages

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Yeah, that's what I call total busch league.

Ugh.


Crappy engine is crappy.



THE PRINCE CALLS FOR AN UPGRADE.

Lord knows they need it if they're gonna give us alpha build looking NPCs.

#266
upsettingshorts

upsettingshorts
  • Members
  • 13 950 messages
They need a whole new engine, for that they need zots, and for more zots they could probably do without their games being review bombed on Metacritic and the people who make them being called out on the internet as being representative of everything wrong with the industry.

Granted I don't know if that's how it works, but it seems reasonable.  As it stands, their "loyal" fans are demanding they do more with less because that's what they "owe" people.

If EA is looking at sales figures and canning expansions, what do you think they're gonna say if BioWare wants time and money to work on a new engine?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 mars 2012 - 06:52 .


#267
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 988 messages
IMO, neither Denerim, Lothering, Redcliffe, or Kirkwall were ever truly alive.

They were all comatose.

#268
Guest_Puddi III_*

Guest_Puddi III_*
  • Guests

Das Tentakel wrote...

It's a question of intellectual gymnastics, in order to convince yourself of the graphical awesomeness of the new art style.

I doubt they went into the design room and thought, "You know what DA needs? Low-poly furniture people." So, I'd hardly call it part of the "art style" change, but cut corners (like recycled environs) and supposed resource issues with the engine.

And that was hardly even a backflip. :P

#269
Das Tentakel

Das Tentakel
  • Members
  • 1 321 messages

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

IMO, neither Denerim, Lothering, Redcliffe, or Kirkwall were ever truly alive.

They were all comatose.


I suspect the most lively inhabitants emigrated to other videogame fantasy realms.;)
By the time DA2 came out, they had to hire unemployed extras from old RPG's from around 2000.

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 25 mars 2012 - 07:05 .


#270
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 988 messages

Das Tentakel wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

IMO, neither Denerim, Lothering, Redcliffe, or Kirkwall were ever truly alive.

They were all comatose.


I suspect the most lively inhabitants emigrated to other videogame fantasy realms.;)
By the time DA2 came out, they had to hire unemployed extras from old RPG's from around 2000.


Posted Image

I think the last game I played that had a city I could honestly deem as "alive" was FFXII and XIII -- I've been bringing up FFXII a lot lately.

Specifically the Port of Balfonheim. You had various races -- Humes, Bangaa, Seeq -- carrying supplies across the city. You had people conversing -- granted you couldn't hear what they were saying, but you could see they were talking -- and you had people shopping at stores.

Certainly, had the game had voiced cities I would've been amazed at how lifelike it felt. But even without that, it did feel alive as much as the game would allow.

Even FFXIII -- with its more-linear-then-usual story -- had their populated areas feel alive more then DA has ever done.

Of course, the FF series and the DA series use resources differently, so that's definitely a factor. But I don't really think Bioware's been trying to make their cities, villages, and towns feel alive.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 25 mars 2012 - 08:06 .


#271
upsettingshorts

upsettingshorts
  • Members
  • 13 950 messages
They're trying but the engine is crap.

Seriously, why else do you think they shoved a bunch of poorly-rendered blurry elves in there? For what other possible purpose other than to add to the illusion of the place being crowded. If they're having to resort to things like that, the problem is pretty obviously zots.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 mars 2012 - 07:41 .


#272
Brockololly

Brockololly
  • Members
  • 9 032 messages

Upsettingshorts wrote...

They need a whole new engine, for that they need zots, and for more zots they could probably do without their games being review bombed on Metacritic and the people who make them being called out on the internet as being representative of everything wrong with the industry.

Granted I don't know if that's how it works, but it seems reasonable.  As it stands, their "loyal" fans are demanding they do more with less because that's what they "owe" people.

If EA is looking at sales figures and canning expansions, what do you think they're gonna say if BioWare wants time and money to work on a new engine?


EA will just shove Frostbite 2 onto them, like they're doing with so many of their internal games. And certainly as this console lifecycle winds down, I think they're viewing Frostbite 2 as a bridge to the next gen consoles.

I really think the shift to a console focus hurt DA2 in this regard too. The DA engine was developed first and foremost to work on a PC. It could do things like the isometric type view which the consoles couldn't handle. So as it stands, they're trying to make this PC engine work best on a console and yes, its not really working. All the while the stuff it can do well and makes it unique is cut because the consoles can't handle it. Thats the reason you have the N64 elves- because the consoles can't handle anything more.


I just really doubt BioWare is ever going to come up with their own engine for any of their games ever again. They'll just use something like Unreal or Frostbite 2 or something. Which so long as they're trying to do party based RPGs, I don't know that thats a good thing either.

#273
cJohnOne

cJohnOne
  • Members
  • 2 403 messages
It doesn't sound that difficult to me to have a few animations for the towns but that isn't what you mean. 

Modifié par cJohnOne, 25 mars 2012 - 07:59 .


#274
dream_operator23

dream_operator23
  • Members
  • 18 messages
I like DA2's art style better than DA:O, but I do think that it could use improvement. (All of the following is in my oh so humble opinion of course. ;) Art is something that is pretty subjective after all.)

DA:O Art style:

I found DA:O's environments way too drab and brown. Even a place like the Brecillian forest was just so lack-luster to me. To me me an elven fantasy forest should be breath-takingly beautiful and the Brecillian forest just didn't cut it. The Deep Roads were another big letdown for me in DA:O...so much brown rock and no visual interest anywhere which such a long quest desperately needs. And oh my goodness the Fade! Here we have a dreamland where one can be anything they want, a place that is constantly changing and shifting like a dream. It should be alive with color and light! Instead it is the ugliest piece of brown blah I ever seen!

As for the people in DA:O...I think they did pretty well with the women of all races. You can make women that range from cute to really pretty in the DA:O CC. The actual female NPCs in the game though...well most aren't very pretty. I'm not saying that every woman in Thedas needs to be a stunner, but even most of the NPCs that are supposed to be pretty aren't. The female companions are an exception to this as I think Morrigan and Leliana are very pretty. Plus pretty women are fairly easy to make with the CC so I don't know why there aren't more around. Plus the make-up tends to be hideous.

The men on the other hand I find almost universally ugly. Even ones that are supposed to be great looking such as Alistair and Zevran I find merely bland. Teagan is the only male NPC that I can think of that is fairly attractive. And trying to make a male PC in the CC isn't much better. It was really hard for me to make a human man that was in any way attractive to me, so I just gave up on making them. Making a good-looking male elf in the CC was better so I stuck with those, but even then the male elves don't look beautiful enough for my tastes. The pictures that Prince linked to above (all modded of course) fits my image of a male elf much better than what we get with the game.

DA2 Art style:

It's better in most ways in my opinion, but it still needs a lot of work. I think the environments are better especially the caves and the Deep Roads (which I thought were stunning this time around). Of course the beauty of those caves gets somewhat lost when every one looks the same, but that is not an art style problem. In fact it was that the caves and Deep Roads looked so good that really made me resent the recycling. Imagine what other underground pretties they could have come up with. I especially liked the room with the blue sparkles on the ceiling. It made me gasp with delight the first time I saw it. Sadly the Fade looks no better to me in DA2. Again I think there is SO much missed potential here with a dreamworld. I want the Fade to make gasp with wonder, but it's just blah again.

I think the interior environments of DA2 were much better realized than the ones of DA:O. Especially the high class areas. I remember wandering around the Denerim palace in DA:O and thinking it didn't look much better than the Alienage. Both were brown and ugly. The Alienage should look brown and ugly, but the home of the Arl should look better. I know this is supposed to be a gritty medieval world, but give me some evidence that the nobility lives better than the underclass besides just the size of their digs. (By the way I thought the Dwarven palace got this right in DA:O. Now there was a place of majestic beauty that said this is where the rich and most powerful dwarves live.)

As for the people, I think that they look much better in DA2. Finally I could make a human man that I found gorgeous in the CC. I could make really pretty women as well. I wouldn't mind seeing more grit and dirt on the people again (they did all seem a little too clean), but please for the love of the gods let me keep being able to make attractive men in DA3!

As I've said earlier in this thread, I think the elves in DA2 have the potential to have an other-worldy elven beauty about them. It wasn't utilized very often in NPCs, but Merril and Fenris much better fit my idea of people that humans would find beautiful and attractive than the elves in DA:O. The dwarves on the other hand were the only people that I thought looked really off in DA2. I thought they were just prefect in DA:O and their appearance didn't translate well into the cleaner art style of DA2.

So in short I don't think that either game really utilized their art style as well as I would have liked. DA2 comes closer, but still needs work. I do think the whole world in DA2 looked too clean and flat, but on the other hand I thought the DA:O world was really drab and ugly. I'll be interested to see what they come up with in DA3.

Modifié par dream_operator23, 25 mars 2012 - 08:18 .


#275
upsettingshorts

upsettingshorts
  • Members
  • 13 950 messages

Brockololly wrote...

I really think the shift to a console focus hurt DA2 in this regard too..


The console limitations argument in this respect is a convenient strawman.  

If it was a hardware issue and not a ******-poor engine, then games like Heavy Rain - a console exclusive - would not manage to put together scenes like this.  Furthermore, as many people including myself pointed out as being a major issue with DA2, the camera was actually more restrictive than it was in DAO.  

In other words, your agenda is showing.  BioWare's had a significant presence on, and a focus towards delivering a good experience with their console-platform editions since Knights of the Old Republic in 2003.

This was compounded by DAO's incredibly delayed release.  The Eclipse engine is simply extremely dated and inefficient, considering that the game was announced in 2004 the engine itself is probably around that age, too, and it shows.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 mars 2012 - 08:34 .