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[LPPrince]

Atakuma wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I don't think we'll be seeing a Dragon Age game on a new engine until the next gen consoles hit.

They won't need a new engine for the next gen consoles since the leap will be pretty small.

Well hell, I think they need a new engine NOW.

Or at least they need to better utilize the engine they have.

When we hit next gen though- I expect MUCH better than DA2.

[Das Tentakel]

LPPrince wrote...
Well hell, I think they need a new engine NOW.

Or at least they need to better utilize the engine they have.

When we hit next gen though- I expect MUCH better than DA2.

I think it's even simpler than that: They have to try harder, period.
Although I hesitate to call DA2 a truly bad game, it was a disgrace in many respects and unworthy of Bioware's reputation.

As for next generation consoles...will be interesting to see how that plays out, as more and more developers seem to feel it's going to be the last generation of consoles.
Anyone else thinking that the 'new opportunities' regarding DA were perhaps Microsoft or Sony bringing a big bag o'money and a dev kit to Edmonton in exchange for an exclusive, timed or otherwise?

[Direwolf0294]

I hope they use DA:O's graphics rather than DA2's. I much prefer realistic graphics over cartoony graphics and for the setting of Dragon Age having realistic graphics makes a lot more sense.

Everything in DA2 felt like it was made out of plastic. It also felt way too clean. There was no difference between low town and high town, the alienage didn't look like a slum at all and even the sewers looked spotless.

Also they screwed up the elves in DA2. The new look Quanari and Flemmeth were cool but the elves were just gah. Merril (sp?) was ok once you got used to her but the other elves all looked aweful and the DA:O elves looked much better.

[Rorschachinstein]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I hope they use DA:O's graphics rather than DA2's. I much prefer realistic graphics over cartoony graphics and for the setting of Dragon Age having realistic graphics makes a lot more sense.

Everything in DA2 felt like it was made out of plastic. It also felt way too clean. There was no difference between low town and high town, the alienage didn't look like a slum at all and even the sewers looked spotless.

Also they screwed up the elves in DA2. The new look Quanari and Flemmeth were cool but the elves were just gah. Merril (sp?) was ok once you got used to her but the other elves all looked aweful and the DA:O elves looked much better.

Fenris looked like a sexy beast, your arguement is invalid.

[Maria Caliban]

LPPrince wrote...

Well hell, I think they need a new engine NOW.

Or at least they need to better utilize the engine they have.

When we hit next gen though- I expect MUCH better than DA2.

What's wrong with the engine they have?

[AkiKishi]

LPPrince wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I don't think we'll be seeing a Dragon Age game on a new engine until the next gen consoles hit.

They won't need a new engine for the next gen consoles since the leap will be pretty small.

Well hell, I think they need a new engine NOW.

Or at least they need to better utilize the engine they have.

When we hit next gen though- I expect MUCH better than DA2.

Well they are not going to get away with that they did in DA2. This is a failing of Bioware in general, you see it in ME3 where because of certain things you can no longer lower your weapon in a combat area. They really need to go with the hardware rather than showcasing the weaknesses, even if that means a different game design.
I don't think KOA would win any awards for graphics, but the overall effect was pleasing , much more so than the sporadic quality of DA2 and ME3.

[tmp7704]

Maria Caliban wrote...
What's wrong with the engine they have?

It could probably use some functionality added -- support for "ambient" characters who aren't permanent and not as 'heavy' for the engine to handle, but allow to create illusion of crowds for places like cities and such. And change to the character skin shaders, so it's closer to the more detailed DAO appearance. And animation support for attachments. Maybe even character scaling (concern of having animations line up for precise interactions doesn't apply for characters who don't actually interact in such manner)

Other than these it's pretty sufficient, i think. Long-term goal could be change from static lighting to one calculated entirely at runtime, but that's quite optional.

Modifié par tmp7704, 26 mars 2012 - 09:19 .

[LPPrince]

Honestly, I think it'd be refreshing to see Bioware use something different.

Of course if they do, they'd need time to get used to it.

Problem with that is the next game would suffer slightly from them not being used to a new engine.

Its the same reason why the newest games on next gen consoles don't completely utilize the strengths of said consoles.

Its just that DA2 felt so busch league to me, I want them to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING they can to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Pzykozis]

Maria Caliban wrote...
What's wrong with the engine they have?

I'd say the ability to push vertices is severely lacking, also judging by the games so far it seems asthough they're constrained quite badly by draw calls and/or access to memory aswell, but its trade off for what they focus on I guess.

Having said that I'm more on your side, but then I'd also say that the engine as it appeared for DA2 wasn't/isn't ready for the next gen, infact it'll be interesting to see what happens next gen, because I know of a few studios that are already struggling to keep up with tech for this gen, and with the prospect of next looming... well its good time to be a software engineer in R&D I guess.

[LPPrince]

I just hope the art style of the next game is more realistic. Less...I guess I don't want to say cartoony, but stylized.

There we go. More realistic, less stylized.

[Sylvius the Mad]

DAO looked good. DA2 didn't. They both used the same engine, therefore its DA2's art that's the problem.

Or its the encounter design.  Because DA2 wanted to render more combatants at a time, maybe that's why they made all the background players liitle more than 2D sprites.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 26 mars 2012 - 05:19 .

[King Cousland]

Could anyone enlighten me on the precise negatives that comes with using Frostbite 2?

[Pzykozis]

harkness72 wrote...

Could anyone enlighten me on the precise negatives that comes with using Frostbite 2?

Being precise would take too long, basically the engine would need a massive rewrite to support the systems Bioware uses in its games, not to mention new camera classes etc. Also costs money, EA might own DICE but its still not just as simple as it going yes we'll use this engine.

Not to mention extra time learning and optimising workflow and pipeline dependant on whether its weighted heavily towards 3d app workflow or in-engine workflow, similar to how working with Cryengine is pretty much just short opposite of working with Unreal. Also various devtools might be reliant on current pipelines and so not work with a change in engine, aswell as a change in shader creation dependant again on workflow differences.

Basically it'll cost money and time, which is again money. Besides just because you have a new engine doesn't mean everything is suddenly pretty, just means you can make things prettier (well apart from lighting which DA's engine has always seems to have been fairly bad at). Prettier assets take longer to build, which is... well you get the picture.

[tmp7704]

harkness72 wrote...

Could anyone enlighten me on the precise negatives that comes with using Frostbite 2?

All assets would need to be converted or built anew. This is pretty much what they already did going from DAO to DA2, and that's likely largely the reason DA2 is barely on DAO level when it comes to variety (if not worse) instead of expanding upon selection available in first game.

[Nathan Redgrave]

I prefer the elf and Qunari designs from Dragon Age II. The Qunari have a much-needed dose of racial identity now (Sten in Origins was a gray-skinned human with dreadlocks and a monotone voice... I didn't even realize "Qunari" was a different race at first). The elves, on the other hand, didn't look especially interesting in Origins to start with. They were supposed to be generally smaller and skinnier than humans, with a certain Ash Warrior mentioning how thin-boned they were, but at the end of the day they were just shorter. And elven protagonists don't even get the same kind of impressive ears that other elven characters sport, which annoys me to know end because I really wanted more noticible ears on my Warden (currently my avatar pic).

The darkspawn are a "meh" point for me. They looked like generic orcs and goblins in Origins, but I'm not exactly in love with their DA2 design either, despite them looking more unique. I think the Ogre looked better in Origins, but that's about it.

[LPPrince]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

DAO looked good. DA2 didn't.

That's the core of it, as far as my opinion goes.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Both games use outdated graphics engines at this point, anyway. I say, just make a better-looking game than both of them, and to hell with which "art style" it leans towards. And for the love of the Maker, make the stock animations less bloody smucking obvious.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 26 mars 2012 - 09:57 .

[King Cousland]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Both games use outdated graphics engines at this point, anyway. I say, just make a better-looking game than both of them, and to hell with which "art style" it leans towards. And for the love of the Maker, make the stock animations less bloody smucking obvious.

DA:O and DAII use the same engine, it was just upgraded slightly for DAII. Even if they used a cutting edge engine, the art style still matters as that is how the things the engine renders will appear. I'm fine with them sticking with the current engine, as I don't really care about graphics, I just want a more realistic look. 

[Mark of the Dragon]

I imagine that they will use the same engine but actually tweak the graphics some. This will hopefully help make the game seem less cartoony in the end. There were a lot of people who had problems with DA2's art style.

[LPPrince]

Graphics- not the real problem.

Art Style- the real problem.

[Yuoaman]

I actually really liked the art style of DAII and preferred it to DA:O's. But hey, different strokes.

[LPPrince]

Yuoaman wrote...

I actually really liked the art style of DAII and preferred it to DA:O's. But hey, different strokes.

For different folks.

Or different blokes, for my English brothers across the sea.

[Atakuma]

Part of the art direction is directly related to engine limitations. With a better optimized engine they could ditch the whole minimalistic angle and bring back all those little details that make the environments more interesting.

[LPPrince]

Atakuma wrote...

Part of the art direction is directly related to engine limitations. With a better optimized engine they could ditch the whole minimalistic angle and bring back all those little details that make the environments more interesting.

Like books and ravens and fingers that don't look like they belong to a skeleton?

[Atakuma]

LPPrince wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Part of the art direction is directly related to engine limitations. With a better optimized engine they could ditch the whole minimalistic angle and bring back all those little details that make the environments more interesting.

Like books and ravens and fingers that don't look like they belong to a skeleton?

And more cheesewheels than you can shake a stick at.