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#51
TEWR

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LPPrince wrote...

Ahh yes, darkspawn.

Again, DAO art style prevails.

*snipped awesome Darkspawn*

*snipped the Clownspawn Hurlocks



IMO, the only Darkspawn that DAII did right were the Hurlock Alphas and the Genlocks -- both grunts and Alphas. Armor wise, DAO wins but it isn't what I'd like the Darkspawn to wear. But it is the clear winner between the two.

The Hurlock Emissaries -- Bioware said we'd only see Hurlocks and Ogres in DAII, so they're definitely Hurlocks -- need only a few things tweaked about their image for me to give the TEWR Seal of Approval. And it's just the obvious: Lose the S&M gear on the face and drop the pointy ears.

And maybe work on the face to not be so mushed, but I don't really mind it on the Emissaries. It's not a dealbreaker for me.

I've posted it before and I'll post it again. And again. And again. Because this is something I really want to see worked on. The Darkspawn -- well, most of them -- just look idiotic now.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

hmmm... I might approve of the new Hurlocks, but only if they had these traits:

1) More bloody, dirty, tainted, and less shiny white
2) Had different noses (some being torn or ripped), and have some who have the original Hurlock type nose
3) wore armor that actually looks like the original Darkspawn armor, or something that looks half-assed.
4) had sharp teeth again
5) had monstrous tattoos again
6) lose their hair. That made them look more like Uruk-Hai for me, so the hair needs to go.
7) appeared in high level of detail on all platforms.

and to go even further

For Ogres, they need:

1) Less mushed up face
2) Completely gray or completely purple
3) Soulless eyes
4) A return to the DAO teeth that they had. There is a difference between the two sets of teeth



For Genlocks:

1) Tinker around with the color scheme. Most people would like them to not be beige. Me? I couldn't care less about their color. I love the new design. The Genlocks in Origins were the only ones that needed an overhaul, and the new design works
2) Make the Genlock Alphas taller than regular Genlocks like they are now, but smaller than Hurlock Grunts. Or just make the Hurlock grunts taller than the Alphas, and the Hurlock Alphas are also given a height boost.


For Shrieks:

1) a return to the DAO style (color scheme and sharp teeth included)
2) drop the protrusions from the old style
3) move the ears down
4) give them a more elf-like body. Looking at the old design, they seem to have pointed feet, while the new design has more normal-esque feet.
5) make their heads more narrow and have less of a giant forehead.



Regarding the Elves, I don't think the design of the Elves is an inherently bad concept. Sure it might need some more work -- which is arguable and really, people should be posting both the good and the bad instead of just one side -- but it's not that bad.

I think Zevran's flaws in his design are these:

1) Lack of eyebrows
2) HIs skin isn't as tan as it used to be
3) His hair is brighter then before
4) Bioware has a lot of work to do on the facial animations. Even if they're more expressive, they also kinda make some characters look like.... well... like this:

Posted Image

I'm exaggerating obviously, but there are moments in DAII where the game's facial animations seemed very... warped.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 24 mars 2012 - 02:07 .


#52
LPPrince

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Elves are distinct now!

Posted Image

EDIT- D'AHAHAHAHAHA, SHE LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE THE MR. BEAN PHOTO ABOVE, LOOOOOOL

Modifié par LPPrince, 24 mars 2012 - 02:08 .


#53
Brockololly

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Wulfram wrote...

DA2 had an art style?


Posted Image

I really hope they get rid of the over the top anime inspired syle of DA2. It was completely off putting in the combat animations and the actual art style with everything looking overly sexed up, with horns, spikes, jaggy edges and feathers was just bland  and not even internally consistent within the DA world. Stuff looked different for the hell of it and didn't make any sense- why do the elves all of a sudden not  have shoes?

I think the bigger issue with DA:O's graphics was on the technical level- just provide more detailed, atmospheric visuals on a technical level. DA2 just made it worse IMO, in mucking up the art style into a generic mess in addition to not having graphics looking that good on a technical level.

Playing other fantasy games like Skyrim or The Witcher 2, so much of my visual enjoyment of those games comes from the attention to detail thats present. You've got actual scabbards and sheaths for weapons! You have little bugs crawling on logs in Skyrim or crows that fly away as you walk by in The Witcher 2. You can see flags and tents flapping in the breeze or see storms roll in. That level of detail definitely is not present in DA2.

#54
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*

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When I started playing DA2 I thought to myself what the hell happened to the darkspawn? Buth then again the whole style was more cartoon so................
I still remain at my statement that facial expression was better in DA2. This does not mean that I liked the style better

#55
TEWR

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LPPrince wrote...

Elves are distinct now!

*snip.

EDIT- D'AHAHAHAHAHA, SHE LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE THE MR. BEAN PHOTO ABOVE, LOOOOOOL



I think her only problems are that: 1) she has Tarohne clown make-up syndrome and 2) She looks malnourished in her face because she's a slave.

I'm sure if she changed her makeup and ate a few meals every day, she'd look better.

Well, and if Bioware didn't crush the Elves' noses. I don't know why she couldn't have a human nose with a nasal bridge that extended into her forehead, like some other Elves do. I mean my god, dropping bricks on peoples' noses is never a good way to go.

Look at Athenril. She's actually a great looking Elf using the new design:

Posted Image

And interestingly enough, in the prologue one of her daggers is in a scabbard.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 24 mars 2012 - 02:17 .


#56
TEWR

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One of the things that really angered me about the Darkspawn in DAII's base game was that they were too clean and didn't project an aura of "These things will make everything -- land and people, animals and crops -- sick and suffer a fate worse then death".

In DAO, the Darkspawn did in fact project such an aura.

#57
LPPrince

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Posted Image

Posted Image

Yeah, I still go with DAO elves.

#58
Pasquale1234

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LPPrince wrote...

Bib Armor- Yeah, that has always been odd to me.

Female walk animation- I'm a heterosexual male and I loved it. Meaning my opinion is worth jack. Because I think we can all guess why I loved it. HAH.

But yeah, they could tone down the hip swaying a little.


Just for the protag - I don't care so much how they animate the other characters.

On another note....

I mentioned this somewhere in the 113-page announcement thread before it was locked.

As I understand it, they started using some additional 3rd party software for graphics/rendering, which is one of the reasons why they haven't released a toolkit for DA2.

If they had stayed the course with what they already had -

- It may have been easier, faster, cheaper to create more maps for DA2, because they could have re-used more of the assets from DAO.
- They could have used DAO's Lothering set to start the Hawke family, and given us the opportunity to get to know them a bit there, and perhaps play through the escape.  Actually, we could have picked up with the Hawke family hearing that a couple of Grey Wardens had just passed through...
- Cameo characters would not have needed to be re-created, but would have looked the same as they did in DAO (although I suppose they still would have re-designed Isabela)
- They could have used a lot of the existing body models, animations, armors, etc., and not needed to re-create so much.
- It would have been much easier to allow full customization of any companion that used a standard body model, with existing armors - or applying some minor modifications to them.
- They could have provided a toolset for modders.

Lots of could haves...

I'm certainly no expert in graphic design/rendering software or tools, but it sure seems to me like they could have saved an awful lot of zots, and quite possibly had some perfectly satisfactory results that way.

I guess they had a different sort of artistic vision for DA2, and felt the changes would be beneficial.  Shrug.

#59
Guest_Puddi III_*

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To me, they had the right idea to change the darkspawn, they just botched the execution. DAO darkspawn left something to be desired themselves IMO. Part of that may just be because the 'evil monster horde' concept is boring, so I like the idea of emphasizing that these are supposed to be 'fallen man' rather than a boring monster horde. Again, can't say DA2 succeeded at that, but I think that was the plan.

#60
LPPrince

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DA2 darkspawn make me laugh.

DAO darkspawn scare me(not really, but I'd be more inclined to be scared than to laugh).

#61
Cyne

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The elves' bodies look too small for their heads.

#62
Fallstar

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Personally I preferred the art style in Origins. It had more of a classical fantasy feel to it, you could look at Origins and know that it was Origins. DA:2 there wasn't really anything unique, everything was too clean. The UI's particularly suffered from this, there was no detail anywhere. Just compare the codex from Origins to that from DA:2. Origins looked carefully hand-designed, whereas DA:2 was just an absence of anything characteristic. 

That kind of UI works in a game like Assassin's Creed, but in a fantasy game? Not really.

Modifié par DuskWarden, 24 mars 2012 - 02:23 .


#63
LPPrince

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DAO Elf body-

Posted Image

DA2 Elf body-

Posted Image

#64
TEWR

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I think what scares me the most about the new Darkspawn is what Bioware will do to the Disciples:

Posted Image

I'm sorry, but I do NOT want these guys to be trashed by Bioware's new "iconic" Darkspawn.

Though, the Disciples were just better rendered Hurlocks in Awakening so I guess they're already trashed by Bioware's new look. Posted Image

I wonder, has any dev ever given their input on the Darkspawn beyond "We felt DAO's were too LotR-ish"?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 24 mars 2012 - 02:27 .


#65
LPPrince

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DuskWarden wrote...

you could look at Origins and know that it was Origins.


Developers actually disagreed with that assessment, hence the desire for the DA2 art style in the first place.

Bad call on their part, in my opinion.

#66
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It's the "not really" that make them fail for me. They actively "try" to scare me by looking evil (with their stupid grins) and monstrous, but they're just, bleh. If they could look like truly demented spawns of what once was human (/etc.) rather than the somewhat comical DA2 spawn, that would be ideal.

#67
LPPrince

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I think what scares me the most about the Darkspawn is what Bioware will do to the Disciples:

Posted Image

I'm sorry, but I do NOT want these guys to be trashed by Bioware's new "iconic" Darkspawn.


See, HE was a badass darkspawn.

#68
LPPrince

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Posted Image

Don't know who made this comic, but I thank them. lawl

#69
Fallstar

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LPPrince wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

you could look at Origins and know that it was Origins.


Developers actually disagreed with that assessment, hence the desire for the DA2 art style in the first place.

Bad call on their part, in my opinion.


I know, I remember reading that, which is why I worded it like that. They got it exactly the wrong way round.

#70
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I've red the statement above and what I can summise from it is that most people think it looks to "clean" or like a cartoon. That's the difference between DAO and DA2: realistic or cartoonisch. (is that correct english?)

#71
Cyne

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DuskWarden wrote...

Personally I preferred the art style in Origins. It had more of a classical fantasy feel to it, you could look at Origins and know that it was Origins. DA:2 there wasn't really anything unique, everything was too clean. The UI's particularly suffered from this, there was no detail anywhere. Just compare the codex from Origins to that from DA:2. Origins looked carefully hand-designed, whereas DA:2 was just an absence of anything characteristic. 

That kind of UI works in a game like Assassin's Creed, but in a fantasy game? Not really.


In assassin's creed the UI design was incorporated into and explained by the story, I think it worked for that reason too. In DA2 the UI wasn't explained, and was changed for apparently no story-based reason. Same with the qunari's horns, the female protag's hip swishing, the elf's new look, etc. Visual changes for the sake of change and without a lore-consistent, story driven reason. 

#72
TEWR

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Filament wrote...

It's the "not really" that make them fail for me. They actively "try" to scare me by looking evil (with their stupid grins) and monstrous, but they're just, bleh. If they could look like truly demented spawns of what once was human (/etc.) rather than the somewhat comical DA2 spawn, that would be ideal.


I still maintain that some of them Chelsea Grin themselves.

And if they don't, then I want them to.

LPPrince wrote...

See, HE was a badass darkspawn.


I think it was the armor that added to his level of badassery. I know I want that armor.

#73
LPPrince

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sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

I've red the statement above and what I can summise from it is that most people think it looks to "clean" or like a cartoon. That's the difference between DAO and DA2: realistic or cartoonisch. (is that correct english?)


"Cartoonish". Your English is fine. *thumbs up*

DAO- More realistic

DA2- More cartoonish

^Seems to be the opinion of many members of the forum

#74
LPPrince

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DuskWarden wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

you could look at Origins and know that it was Origins.


Developers actually disagreed with that assessment, hence the desire for the DA2 art style in the first place.

Bad call on their part, in my opinion.


I know, I remember reading that, which is why I worded it like that. They got it exactly the wrong way round.


Yeah, I had a feeling you did. Its why I caught it.

Bioware dun goofed art style wise.

#75
Maria Caliban

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Looking forward to what they come up with.