1311 réponses à ce sujet

[Unit-Alpha]

Ziggeh wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Guys, this is really simple.

Demanding? Yes, that's wrong. Asking, no, that's not.

They are just words. Intent is the same.

What? "They are just words"? What kind of argument is that? They mean different things! This is what words are for, the communication of complex ideas, you can't just say, "apples, oranges, lets call the whole thing off", otherwise we're just basically just making noises.

In this case the difference is who has rights, and massive hints: t'ain't us.

Oh god....

The words demand and ask are just words. They both carry the same intent (i.e. "We want the ending changed"). So people like you abuse the use of the word demand to paint us as terrible people.

It's that simple.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 24 mars 2012 - 02:11 .

[Ziggeh]

Heather Cline wrote...

Endurell I'm a graphic designer. If the client wants the logo changed or something else changed I do it. I may ask questions to get more information so I can get it to how they want it, but I ultimately change it so that the logo is up to their standards and mine.

And we're biowares clients?

[Makatak]

withneelandi wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

Learn your legal implication.

In the laws governing wills, coercion is present when a testator is forced by another to make provisions in his or her will that he or she otherwise would not make if permitted to act according to free choice. It is an element of both duress and Undue Influence, two ways in which a testator is deprived of his or her free choice in making the will. If coercion is established in a proceeding to admit a will to probate, the document will be denied probate, thereby becoming void; and the property of the decedent will be distributed pursuant to the laws of Descent and Distribution.


I never actually ment to hit submit so adendum for fixing ~ As a consumer you have the right to refuse payment on any product you deem that does not meet the requirements or expectancy set by the manufacter or creator. As
a consumer you do not have the rights to legally use, in a proclimation of diservice or distrust or by any means to which you as the consumer feel the product recieved from the manufacturer does not meet expectations, to claim or invalidate any product under the duress or assertion that fiscal damage or harm may come to the representative of
or manufacter of any product. Once that statment is made by a consumer in a notorized fashion all rights of the consumer and product accountability end. The manufacter or creator of a product is then legally eligable to pursue means of restitution or recant against the complaintent once the consumer has gone beyond the means of acceptable consumer rights protection.

So to make the satement *(first paragrpah) of Wills IE:Artistic Intent it is derived to wholly be indivisable from the consumer. Should a product or service provided be less then expectancy or derived intention based on statement where the Testator(Bioware) manufacter creates an unideal procession or finds that it ends in a means unsatisfactiorily to the consumer the artist IE:Wills is protected against all means of injunction or duress from the
consumer. Any action taken to create discontent or slander towards the wills/Testator IE:Artistic Intent/Bioware is in breach of ...... a whole list of things that i'm not referencing ........ and commits the consumer to provision requirements represented in factual standing that can without intent or perception show that the Wills/Testator has failed to hold standing with the product or service  no recanting shall be neccessary by the wills/testator. Any duress expressed from the consumer is wholly implied blah blah, basically the way it breaks down is this: A
piece of artwork can not be changed under any influence by the consumerwhere the statement made is based out of intent propositional or factual where the harm may be unintentional but still occuring in fiscal harm. All customer actions made can not be used against the Will/Testator in accordiance with consumer desires or applications of a
product or wills.

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There. Fixed the friggin post.

I've got a law degree and that makes absolutely no sense to me.

What juristiction is that from, why are you throwing terminology from consumer law and the law of succession together? The laws regarding the creation of a will reffer to situations involving .... the creation of a will but I don't see the application here.

You may come from a jurisdiction that does thing very, very differently to the UK legal system, but seriously, cite cases, texts legal journals, i'll understand them. I'm genuinely curiuous, perhaps its just too late at night but your post makes no sense to me.

I want to understand....

Own't.

*applause*

[Unit-Alpha]

Ziggeh wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

Endurell I'm a graphic designer. If the client wants the logo changed or something else changed I do it. I may ask questions to get more information so I can get it to how they want it, but I ultimately change it so that the logo is up to their standards and mine.

And we're biowares clients?

Yes, to a point. That is how sucessful media works.

[Grasich]

Ziggeh wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

Endurell I'm a graphic designer. If the client wants the logo changed or something else changed I do it. I may ask questions to get more information so I can get it to how they want it, but I ultimately change it so that the logo is up to their standards and mine.

And we're biowares clients?

Assuming you paid for their product, YES YOU ARE.

[MHBILLS_Endurell]

Heather Cline wrote...

Endurell I'm a graphic designer. If the client wants the logo changed or something else changed I do it. I may ask questions to get more information so I can get it to how they want it, but I ultimately change it so that the logo is up to their standards and mine.

Yep! The whole "artistic integrity" arguement is great and all, but artists gotta eat...and unless EA and Bioware are raising money for charity (oh wait...that was US!)....haha.

[VigilancePress]

Whether you call it lying or misrepresenting or simply misleading quotes... I feel betrayed.

As a customer, I demand a fix. That is my right and *duty* as a consumer. Consumers who let things slide are responsible for companies getting away with subpar products.

And yes. I feel Mass Effect 3 is a subpar product, compared to the game that spawned the franchise.

I wouldn't sue them, or throw legal jargon at them, but as a consumer, I feel within my rights to demand a fix.

[MHBILLS_Endurell]

We're better than clients: we're repeat customers willing to make micro transactions on their "art" (DLC). And they can lose our future business by not addressing our concerns.

[Unit-Alpha]

MHBILLS_Endurell wrote...

We're better than clients: we're repeat customers willing to make micro transactions on their "art" (DLC). And they can lose our future business by not addressing our concerns.

Well stated.

[Torrible]

Never mind.

Modifié par Torrible, 24 mars 2012 - 02:18 .

[Jackal7713]

VigilancePress wrote...

Whether you call it lying or misrepresenting or simply misleading quotes... I feel betrayed.

As a customer, I demand a fix. That is my right and *duty* as a consumer. Consumers who let things slide are responsible for companies getting away with subpar products.

And yes. I feel Mass Effect 3 is a subpar product, compared to the game that spawned the franchise.

I wouldn't sue them, or throw legal jargon at them, but as a consumer, I feel within my rights to demand a fix.

^This.

When someone tells you something that turns out to be false, then you should be able to flat out call them a lier.
Their not kids,they are a corporation. Why sugar coat it? Do you think they are going to cry? I'll tell you what, they are crying all the way to the bank with your money.

[aliengmr1]

MHBILLS_Endurell wrote...

We're better than clients: we're repeat customers willing to make micro transactions on their "art" (DLC). And they can lose our future business by not addressing our concerns.

this

The day the gamers just become good little consumers, never voicing opinions, is the day the games industry does die.

[Nassegris]

I’m personally not demanding, or threatening, the change of anything. I don’t even own a gun.

I can ask for the endings to be changed, but yeah, I’m not demanding it.

What I can say is – with the endings as they stand, you’re not getting more of my money. That’s well within my right as a consumer. I can also say that I’d like them to change, that I hate the way they’re made, that they’re trite, poorly written and badly planned – and that’s also within my right.

Bioware can give me the finger and keep the endings as they are, if they’re okay with losing my custom.

[gmboy902]

We paid money for a product. An intellectual product.

We feel that this product, because of the ending, is not worth the $60 we paid for it.

Thus, we have a right (and personally, I believe a responsibility) to petition BioWare. That's how capitalism works.

If BioWare refuses, they will lose a whole ton of DLC money and some future revenue from future games.

[Ziggeh]

Grasich wrote...

Assuming you paid for their product, YES YOU ARE.

So if I don't like the flavour of Heinz Tomato Soup, I can ask them to change it, because having engaged their service by purchasing a can from my local Tescos, I have a two way relationship with the company and a say in the product?

[Grasich]

aliengmr1 wrote...

MHBILLS_Endurell wrote...

We're better than clients: we're repeat customers willing to make micro transactions on their "art" (DLC). And they can lose our future business by not addressing our concerns.

this

The day the gamers just become good little consumers, never voicing opinions, is the day the games industry does die.

This. There seems to be a trend of people wanting to be "true fans" and support a gaming company no matter what they do. All that leads to is bad games.

If the gaming industry is to thrive, it needs vocal(and moderately civil ) gamers that don't take ****, no matter how much they like the company.

[Unit-Alpha]

Ziggeh wrote...

Grasich wrote...

Assuming you paid for their product, YES YOU ARE.

So if I don't like the flavour of Heinz Tomato Soup, I can ask them to change it, because having engaged their service by purchasing a can from my local Tescos, I have a two way relationship with the company and a say in the product?

I thought Mass Effect was not a consumer good, but art?

You guys need to keep track of your arguments.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 24 mars 2012 - 02:24 .

[Grasich]

Ziggeh wrote...

Grasich wrote...

Assuming you paid for their product, YES YOU ARE.

So if I don't like the flavour of Heinz Tomato Soup, I can ask them to change it, because having engaged their service by purchasing a can from my local Tescos, I have a two way relationship with the company and a say in the product?

Of course you do. Companies need end consumer feedback in order to improve their product.

[Redban103]

They can be within their rights to not change anything respectively, but then it's still going to result in me not purchasing more bioware products knowing now about a history of careless-ness. This is more or less a chance for them to properly show us what they had in mind or well, yeah, to give us something more satisfying (different than happy) to leave with.

[Jackal7713]

Ziggeh wrote...

Grasich wrote...

Assuming you paid for their product, YES YOU ARE.

So if I don't like the flavour of Heinz Tomato Soup, I can ask them to change it, because having engaged their service by purchasing a can from my local Tescos, I have a two way relationship with the company and a say in the product?

I'm sorry but you are really reaching with this. Soup doesn't cost $60 or $80.  Can't compair the two.

[Ziggeh]

Unit-Alpha wrote...
I thought Mass Effect was not a consumer good, but art?

You guys need to keep track of your arguments.

As one of the pro-enders used to say: checkmate.

"You guys", nice straw man you have there.

[Dreogan]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Grasich wrote...

Assuming you paid for their product, YES YOU ARE.

So if I don't like the flavour of Heinz Tomato Soup, I can ask them to change it, because having engaged their service by purchasing a can from my local Tescos, I have a two way relationship with the company and a say in the product?

I thought Mass Effect was not a consumer good, but art?

You guys need to keep track of your arguments.

Tomato soup is obviously art. Duh.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

listen to this: www.youtube.com/watch

now tell me that EA thinks of games as art

[MetalCargo999]

Ziggeh wrote...

Grasich wrote...

Assuming you paid for their product, YES YOU ARE.

So if I don't like the flavour of Heinz Tomato Soup, I can ask them to change it, because having engaged their service by purchasing a can from my local Tescos, I have a two way relationship with the company and a say in the product?

As a matter of fact, you can!  They likely won't listen though because you would be in the minority.  If a large group of people say they don't like the soup, then Heinz would actually change it!

[Dreogan]

MetalCargo999 wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Grasich wrote...

Assuming you paid for their product, YES YOU ARE.

So if I don't like the flavour of Heinz Tomato Soup, I can ask them to change it, because having engaged their service by purchasing a can from my local Tescos, I have a two way relationship with the company and a say in the product?

As a matter of fact, you can!  They likely won't listen though because you would be in the minority.  If a large group of people say they don't like the soup, then Heinz would actually change it!

It doesn't even have to be a majority! It just needs to be a big enough group of angry people to influence sales!

Modifié par Dreogan, 24 mars 2012 - 02:27 .