1316 réponses à ce sujet

[Linkforlife]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Linkforlife wrote...

At least we still have Marauder Shields as the final boss, that still matters lol.

Never forget.

Oh I won't. Marauder Shields was braver than any Reaper. He held the line as best as he could against Shepard, what a trooper.

[JeanLuc Awesome]

Sorry but I won't be holding the line any more either, and I imagine a lot of folks won't be.
We're getting new DLC, the ending may end up staying the way it is but nonetheless they're going out of their way to provide more closure to make their fans happy.

If that's not good enough for you feel free to complain and express your opinions but you are not in the position to demand a "different" ending nor do they owe you one.

Modifié par JeanLuc Awesome, 24 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[MOELANDER]

Luc0s wrote...

The cutscenes, narrative and story within games are very much art and always will be art.

Are movies art? If you answer is "yes" than you should also understand why the non-interactive parts of video-games are art.

Well, yes and no...

Movies get changed all the time! This is not limited to George Lucas but applies actually to quite a lot of them. Test Audiences influence how endings of movies are changed, Director's Cut restore some scenes that were thrown out etc.

Movies, pop music and viedo games are entertainment art. They are there to entertain first, as a product to be consumed by the customer. Then they are art.

The art in movies and video games comes mostly through the visuals. The costimke design or design of the armour that Cmdr. Shepard wears, all fall under that.
I learned from my experience n the film indutry that it means: Entertainment first - because you want your customers to be happy - art second - if you manage to produce an really artistic vision and please your crowd, then you've got a masterpiece of cinema or video game. But in movies pop music and video games it's always the same rule: Customers first, then Art.

[Dragoonlordz]

Lucos many here will attack you for simply expressing a different opinion. If you switch stances the ones you once called allies end up turning on you as shown here which is a sad state of affairs with the community in general. Just remember the only opinion that matters is your own regarding how you see and view the world and elements within.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 23 mars 2012 - 11:59 .

[Lozark]

Artists change their work all the time. JK Rowling changed her planned ending to Harry Potter to include Harry not dying. Sir Arthur Doyle would not have written Hound of the Baskervilles had Holmes not been brought back from the dead. Fallout 3 is better off with Broken Steel. The bonus endings in Silent Hill 2: Restless Dreams do not destroy the meaning of the endings that were on the original release.

[Canned Bullets]

Art is malleable and a lot of great authors have changed the endings of their novels so why do games have to be different? The same thing happened with Fallout 3 when Bethesda brought the protagonist back from the dead with DLC and nothing groundbreaking or disastrous happened. In fact the community reacted positively to the new DLC bringing the protagonist back to life.

[LoboFH]

Luc0s, this is not about art or creative freedom, it's about budgets, deadlines and money...these talented videogames writers were not asked the exact question.

[Seryndras]

Good for you, I really mean it!

For me, if they fail to satisfy my entertainment expectations with their DLC, I will stop to support them. Why, on Earth and all the planets combined, should I support an entertainment company that failed to entertain me properly?

Now my standards aren't really that uber high, I know they cannot please everyone and I already said goodbye to the notion of vastly different, actual pleasing endings. However, I have doubts that they'll manage to deliver something that I'll think was worth my money. And yes, as of now I think I wasted 75 Euro on Mass Effect 3. 99% great gaming be damned if it is spoiled at the end so terribly.

I mean, really, when a friend asks how I liked ME3, I don't think about the good stuff, like the Genophage campaign, or retaking Rannoch. I think about the ending, feel bad because of it and my friends seem to notice.

So, long rant short, I see no conclusive reason to support them blindly in the future. Pre-ordering is already out of the question, regardless of what will come next.

[Rockpopple]

You people should just read the ****ing article. Regardless of the OP's personal opinion on "holding the line" or not, the article is worth the read. Don't assume everyone's against changing the ending - they aren't. Just read it for ****'s sake.

[Intomydimension]

completely agree 

[BIO18]

what I hate about most retake people is that they keep using the "we are custermers" argument.
Well its WRONG, we paid for a game, and the game IS AWSOME. We don't like the ending? That is a personal matter.
The game is awesome, and people tend to forget it.
I'm starting to lose more respect for retake then I had lost with BIOWARE.
I'm starting to feel that BIOWARE is the victim, not us.

[Unit-Alpha]

RogueBot wrote...

Mass Effect 3 is commercial art. Hell, they even hired JESSICA CHOBOT to play a character because of the publicity and marketing it would bring, instead of an actual voice actor. Do you think they were concerned with "artistic integrity" when they did that?

They can change the ending without compromising the integrity of commercial art. It might hurt Bioware's feelings, but it's completely normal (and expected) to alter a piece of commercial art when customers are unsatisfied.

This would be like Manet putting a billboard with an advert for some French wine in one of his pieces.

That's integrity right there!

[Hexley UK]

Linkforlife wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Linkforlife wrote...

At least we still have Marauder Shields as the final boss, that still matters lol.

Never forget.

Oh I won't. Marauder Shields was braver than any Reaper. He held the line as best as he could against Shepard, what a trooper.

Still awaiting the "Marauder Shields Comemorative Dinner Plate" and Action Figure.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It's a frakking game. It's an escape from the real world. The real world is presented as a dark place. If gaming is going to get like this, forget it. I'll buy a set of golf clubs and play 9 holes every couple days. Probably would be healthier anyway. Wait. I'm in Washington. It rains up here all the time or the courses are a swamp except for 3 weeks.

And now the backlash starts.

Hold the line.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 24 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[RogueBot]

Luc0s wrote...

RogueBot wrote...

Maybe you should read the whole article. They all make good points-- no need to latch onto one quote in particular.

I did read the whole article. And it seems pretty clear to me that though the developers are not against changing the ending in a game, they do think that demanding a change in the ending is wrong. I agree with that.

Like I said above, Mass Effect is commercial art, and it is completely normal and expected for customers to demand changes to commercial art when it's not to their satisfaction. Video games aren't exempt, especially when the developer clearly already abandoned artistic integrity.

[Pottumuusi]

Luc0s wrote...

You cannot demand a new ending.

Watch me.

[poundoffleshaa]

No one is forcing Bioware to do anything Bioware doesn't want to do, Bioware fans are asking for change but Bioware doesn't have to grant it the only thing that might motivate them to change it is artistic pride (wanting to make the game better) or worrying annoying their fan base might prove bad for future sales.

[Unit-Alpha]

Luc0s wrote...

Atmospeer wrote...

They can hardly do whatever they want when it's the consumer that decides whether their company survives or not.

Yes, you as the consumer are within your right to vote with your wallet (so to speak). But you are not within your right to demand a new ending. "You don't get to make demands of a council, ambassador!" 

You can voice your opinion. You can decide not to buy future products of BioWare (I know I'll think twice before I buy a new BioWare game), but you cannot demand a new ending.

Wrong, we can demand it. They don't have to comply, but we can demand it. It's well within our free speech rights.

[calvinocious]

Two words: false advertising. They made VERY EXPLICIT promises as to what the ending would be like (not narrative direction or content, but at least diversity), and they BROKE those promises. As consumers, we have every right to DEMAND what we were promised, because that's what we paid for. This is outside the realm of artistic ownership and integrity and all that nonsense.

[Qutayba]

"Forcing" them to change the ending or "forcing" them to not change the ending are essentially the same kind of argument. It's up to them. If the fans want to say that their experience was so painful that nothing short of a redone ending will make them feel better, that's their right. It's then up to the developer to weigh their options and decide.

Only if you blindly accept the "authority" of the label "art" is this a problem. Artists and writers change their work all the time pre-publishing and often post-publishing. It's called revision.  Thank goodness people don't take this "can't change it" argument to Wikipedia.  It would be even worse than it already is.

Modifié par Qutayba, 24 mars 2012 - 12:02 .

[Hexley UK]

Luc0s wrote...

Atmospeer wrote...

They can hardly do whatever they want when it's the consumer that decides whether their company survives or not.

Yes, you as the consumer are within your right to vote with your wallet (so to speak). But you are not within your right to demand a new ending. "You don't get to make demands of a council, ambassador!" 

You can voice your opinion. You can decide not to buy future products of BioWare (I know I'll think twice before I buy a new BioWare game), but you cannot demand a new ending.

M8, what would you rather? We tell them we don't like it and ask that they change it OR we say nothing and just don't bother to buy their games anymore?

I know which one is more productive.

[Wolfsong27]

Luc0s wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Well, the problem is that once it leaves the dev's hands and they sell it as a product with ****ING DAY ONE DLC it is no longer art and can thus be changed by consumer demand.

That, and we were blatantly lied to, breaking the reader-writer contract.

WRONG!

The cutscenes, narrative and story within games are very much art and always will be art.

Are movies art? If you answer is "yes" than you should also understand why the non-interactive parts of video-games are art.

I think it's unfair to call a whole subject 'art'.
No, I don't think -all- movies are art.
Some are just shameless attempts to grab money.

Also, what about music? Is music art? And what about remixes?

[Linkforlife]

Hexley UK wrote...

Linkforlife wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Linkforlife wrote...

At least we still have Marauder Shields as the final boss, that still matters lol.

Never forget.

Oh I won't. Marauder Shields was braver than any Reaper. He held the line as best as he could against Shepard, what a trooper.

Still awaiting the "Marauder Shields Comemorative Dinner Plate" and Action Figure.

Marauder Shields, R.I.P.

[Theb82]

Baronesa wrote...

uhmm What is your opinion on Mass Effect Deception?

BioWare and Del Rey Books are changing the book to accommodate costumer's feedback.

Why is it ok for BioWare to do that on the 4th Book of Mass Effect, but not good for ME3 endings?

Excellent example

I still cant believe that book got released without being proof read.