1311 réponses à ce sujet

[firebreather19]

Dethead123 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

I think in this situation, just as many people who swear they'll never buy another Bioware game again would be offset by the folks who find Bioware taking a stand ballsy and worth supporting.

I think most people would just see them as jackasses who don't give a crap about their consumers. Them making new endings doesn't affect anyone on the other side of the ending argument.

Depends on what we're talking about. Extended ending or clarification is one thing, but a new ending is what I'm talking about. 

I don't see them as jackasses for standing by their ending. In actuality it makes plenty of sense businesswise to make one so, well, people STFU and get over it. 

But then you're asking people to turn their back on their own work, and maybe they have a little more self-respect than that. Who knows. 

[malra]

actually i agree with all of you, that if you have 16 "wildly divergent endings" you would think that at least one would be happy, i'm not saying no happy, i'm just saying i would just like to start with the "wildly divergent" i thought were going to be there. i don't want to tell anyone how to do it, i just want the game i pre-ordered. i'd be happy with three or four "wildly divergent endings even if they somewhat resembled A B C if they were wildly divergent

i think i'm having trouble understanding why the OP changed his/her mind. if there are unintended consequences to ME3, why is that on the consumers who bought the product? why isn't that on the people who produced the flawed product to begin with?

[Unit-Alpha]

Jackal7713 wrote...
I want red cause I get to take a breath after!

That comes with promise that would have to destroy all of your consumer electronics when you eat it. Every one. Even ones that are nice to you, like that Furby.

[xxskyshadowxx]

firebreather19 wrote...

Rawr rawr rawr bioware i'm so mad you can't have my 60 dollars take that i bet your pocket full of 6000000000000 dollars is going to feel it


Come on, if people actually do manage to commit to not buying Bioware games, it's not going to matter because EA owns it and Madden, NCAA, Battlefield, etc. will never go away. And that money funnels in so Bioware can make their masterpiece games and EA gets popularity and association with fantastic games like Dead Space and ME. You are not that important that the entirety of game development will change because one person wants to hurt themselves by not purchasing good video games.

Bioware is part of EA....and EA loves squeezing blood from a stone. If EA loses a single dollar due to anything, I expect the waterboarding starts...

[MetalCargo999]

HBC Dresden wrote...

Quote from Chuck Jordan in the article in the OP: "Essentially, BioWare created the problem for themselves by, to be blunt, promising more than they or any other developer could deliver. They’ve sold the Mass Effect series on the premise that the player can completely customize his character and his character’s story—entire planets with complex storylines that some players will never even see! (And also sex with aliens). But even the largest team of writers and content creators won’t be able to deliver an indefinite number of conclusions that all have the same level of impact, satisfying enough to conclude a multi-year, multi-game epic series. People have been spending years trying to come up with a way to create systems that generate compelling narratives, and no one’s cracked the problem yet."

I came up with 9+ endings here. It ranges from the happy ending to very bad ending, all epic in their own way, primarily because how it takes Shepard's different actions from all three games into account. If I can do it, BioWare definitely should be able to with their team of highly experienced writers, but I think they might have had different creative/narrative or design goals in mind concerning the ending.

This is very thorough.  Good work!

[firebreather19]

Dethead123 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Rawr rawr rawr bioware i'm so mad you can't have my 60 dollars take that i bet your pocket full of 6000000000000 dollars is going to feel it


Come on, if people actually do manage to commit to not buying Bioware games, it's not going to matter because EA owns it and Madden, NCAA, Battlefield, etc. will never go away. And that money funnels in so Bioware can make their masterpiece games and EA gets popularity and association with fantastic games like Dead Space and ME. You are not that important that the entirety of game development will change because one person wants to hurt themselves by not purchasing good video games.

You think a mother company will allow one of it's licenses to leech off of it? If people actually do boycott Bioware. EA will drop it. Or at the very least fire a bunch of people til it starts making money. That's just simple business.

I don't see Madden, NCAA, or Battlefield getting perfect scores. Shadows of the Damned was a business failure but critical success for the company. It's hitting both fronts: popularity and critical success. 

[Unit-Alpha]

Dethead123 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Rawr rawr rawr bioware i'm so mad you can't have my 60 dollars take that i bet your pocket full of 6000000000000 dollars is going to feel it


Come on, if people actually do manage to commit to not buying Bioware games, it's not going to matter because EA owns it and Madden, NCAA, Battlefield, etc. will never go away. And that money funnels in so Bioware can make their masterpiece games and EA gets popularity and association with fantastic games like Dead Space and ME. You are not that important that the entirety of game development will change because one person wants to hurt themselves by not purchasing good video games.

You think a mother company will allow one of it's licenses to leech off of it? If people actually do boycott Bioware. EA will drop it. Or at the very least fire a bunch of people til it starts making money. That's just simple business.

Psst, EA, if you're reading this, sell to Bethesda. They have ridiculous amounts of investment capital and don't oversee their affilitated studios, for better or worse.

[Grasich]

firebreather19 wrote...

Dethead123 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

I think in this situation, just as many people who swear they'll never buy another Bioware game again would be offset by the folks who find Bioware taking a stand ballsy and worth supporting.

I think most people would just see them as jackasses who don't give a crap about their consumers. Them making new endings doesn't affect anyone on the other side of the ending argument.

Depends on what we're talking about. Extended ending or clarification is one thing, but a new ending is what I'm talking about. 

I don't see them as jackasses for standing by their ending. In actuality it makes plenty of sense businesswise to make one so, well, people STFU and get over it. 

But then you're asking people to turn their back on their own work, and maybe they have a little more self-respect than that. Who knows. 

I sense much senseless rage. Or trolling. Not sure which. Maybe both.

[Jackal7713]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...
I want red cause I get to take a breath after!

That comes with promise that would have to destroy all of your consumer electronics when you eat it. Every one. Even ones that are nice to you, like that Furby.

I never liked Furby anyways. Always staring at me with those eyes.

[Gibb_Shepard]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with demanding a new ending. It is within every single person's right to do so.

It is also completely within BW's rights to say **** off. And i'm sure most of their customers will.

OP, you seem to forget that people aren't holding the company ransom. They're requesting a change, not holding a gun to their head. Jesus.

[firebreather19]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Rawr rawr rawr bioware i'm so mad you can't have my 60 dollars take that i bet your pocket full of 6000000000000 dollars is going to feel it


Come on, if people actually do manage to commit to not buying Bioware games, it's not going to matter because EA owns it and Madden, NCAA, Battlefield, etc. will never go away. And that money funnels in so Bioware can make their masterpiece games and EA gets popularity and association with fantastic games like Dead Space and ME. You are not that important that the entirety of game development will change because one person wants to hurt themselves by not purchasing good video games.

Ah, I love people like you. So ripe for the mocking.

But really, don't you think it's a little sad people expect Bioware to look at the forums and say "Hey, that guy's not buying any more of our stuff. We need to fix this NOW!" 

Seriously, I was like one of 10 people who loved Dragon Age 2. I can't imagine how batcrazy the forums were when that game came out.

[Unit-Alpha]

Jackal7713 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...
I want red cause I get to take a breath after!

That comes with promise that would have to destroy all of your consumer electronics when you eat it. Every one. Even ones that are nice to you, like that Furby.

I never liked Furby anyways. Always staring at me with those eyes.

Damn those things were creepy. I chose the red cookie, too, for that reason exactly.

[ashdrake1]

MetalCargo999 wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

MetalCargo999 wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

MetalCargo999 wrote...

ashdrake1 wrote...

MetalCargo999 wrote...

This does not mean I like the ending, but I love the stories bioware tells. After this, why would they risk trying to do something diffrent? - ashdrake1

I don't think the problem here is the risk they took. Again, there are actually errors in the ending that need to be fixed. Personally, I would have preffered that they would have worked on the dark energy ending, but I know that's not gonna happen. That being said, whatever the ending actually is needs to at least be logically coherant.

They took a tremendous risk.  They killed your Shepard and shook the galaxy like an etch a sketch.  Leaving the fate of the galaxy and the characters so many were attached to up to speculation required a huge set of quads.

It had plot holes, but so what.  Lot's of story's have plot hole, some of them flat out make no sense.  Some times things are ignored in favor of telling the story you want. That is my opinion on that matter.

However going for the bummer ending instead of the feel good movie of the year one is always risky.  Getting the ending "fixed" is going to come at a huge cost in terms of games that want to tell unique stories.  More so for ones owned by the equivalent wall-mart of gaming.

I don't think you can equate "risk" in art direction with "error".  Also, I agree that they took a risk, and I don't really mind tht they did either.  My argument is based on the errors of the ending.  By the way, I only think there are only two plot holes in the ending.  A lot of the problems that are actually in the ending are continuity errors, not plot holes. 

But finally, I'd like to add that when an artist has to hijack his work of art to get a point across instead of doing it through his work, then it is poor art.  This is one of my problems with the ending as well, and with a lot of art that sacrifices itself for the sake of the point the artist is trying to make.  But certain art lends itself quite well to that medium, so I guess I'm not trying to make a blanket statement.  What I am saying is that Mass Effect does not lend itself to that form of artistic expression until the very end of the story.  The justification for this?  Because it is the end.  I don't like that logic.  If feels arbitrary, or... what's the word... but I thnk you know what I mean.

Eh, I can think of a few memorable stories that ignore facts for favor of story, but that is just personal perspective an agree to disagree sort of thing.  Most of the times I can fill them in with speculation.  

It would be wonferfull if people were just clamoring for correction of actual error.  The ending has a few.  This is not what people are unified in asking for.  They want to change the way the ending is told.  They want a completely different ending.  One that ignores trying to tell a unique story.

 I would bet money that bioware had a great concept for the next game in the universe and that the ending was a setup for the next chapter in this setting.  After what EA will make them do, I can't help but wonder how this will impact the original concept.  I image it will be a lot like a pregnant women smoking.  Satisfying right now, but dire long term effects.

At worst, we just won't be as surprised as we would have otherwise been by however Bioware chooses to continue the story.

At worst is going to be a homogenized story or planned DLC for alternate endings.  Day one DLC is going to seem great after the repercussions of this.  This is a whole new lucrative option for making money and you can bet EA is already drooling over it.  Look at how many people are shouting take my money, change your story.  I can see buy your own adventure's coming soon, extra choices for small fee's.

I disagree with the homogenized story.  This form of story telling lends itself to presenting several options the story can go.  Look at Mass Effect 2, for example.  You can actually die, as Shepard, in the end game.  I actually found this ending to be very powerful, and twhen Shepard's role in the conversation was filled by Joker?  Fantastic!  Risk isn't the problem.  Getting it right is the problem.  Do you think Bioware would be making changes or additions if people weren't poking holes through the endings like swiss cheese?  Probably not, because while people may personally dislike the ending, they can't really argue against its validity as an ending.

As for the DLC thing, I totally agree, and it scares me.  But I'm likely not going to play a lot of video games after ME3 because of how terrible it has made me feel about the gaming industry as a whole.

I personally don't think that is a great example of risky story telling.  Regardless if you have a game where shepard dies his story still continues in the next one. There was going to be a sequel and shepard was the star.  If they had hired t2o more voice actors and had a fill in for shepard, it would have meant something in the long run.  By having mass effect 3 with shepard as the lead it was made canon.

The only thing about the end of 2 that had weight was the fact members of your crew could die, because that carried over. 

I very much think they would make changes and additions if you were not able to poke holes in the story.  Again that is not the sole drive behind this movement.  Many people of the movement want to be able able to put a bullet in the catalyst while shouting "reap this!", then go home and bang the cheerleader.  Enough people that EA would be able to make a fast buck.  I still stand behind Casey being resentful in his response to the fan outcry.  I think he honestly is willing to stand by the ending, it's not biowares call though.  

EA will make money off this and Bioware will take less chances.  This will affect our wallets and biowares stories.

Modifié par ashdrake1, 24 mars 2012 - 04:17 .

[Jackal7713]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Jackal7713 wrote...
I want red cause I get to take a breath after!

That comes with promise that would have to destroy all of your consumer electronics when you eat it. Every one. Even ones that are nice to you, like that Furby.

I never liked Furby anyways. Always staring at me with those eyes.

Damn those things were creepy. I chose the red cookie, too, for that reason exactly.

lmao

[Unit-Alpha]

firebreather19 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Rawr rawr rawr bioware i'm so mad you can't have my 60 dollars take that i bet your pocket full of 6000000000000 dollars is going to feel it


Come on, if people actually do manage to commit to not buying Bioware games, it's not going to matter because EA owns it and Madden, NCAA, Battlefield, etc. will never go away. And that money funnels in so Bioware can make their masterpiece games and EA gets popularity and association with fantastic games like Dead Space and ME. You are not that important that the entirety of game development will change because one person wants to hurt themselves by not purchasing good video games.

Ah, I love people like you. So ripe for the mocking.

But really, don't you think it's a little sad people expect Bioware to look at the forums and say "Hey, that guy's not buying any more of our stuff. We need to fix this NOW!" 

Seriously, I was like one of 10 people who loved Dragon Age 2. I can't imagine how batcrazy the forums were when that game came out.

Yeah, when it's 50,000+ people motivated enough to find and join a FB group about it, and hundreds of thousands more who just accepted it, you have a problem.

[Jjacobclark]

dude you are whipped. also look at bladerunner

[garf]

firebreather19 wrote...

Dethead123 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

I think in this situation, just as many people who swear they'll never buy another Bioware game again would be offset by the folks who find Bioware taking a stand ballsy and worth supporting.

I think most people would just see them as jackasses who don't give a crap about their consumers. Them making new endings doesn't affect anyone on the other side of the ending argument.

Depends on what we're talking about. Extended ending or clarification is one thing, but a new ending is what I'm talking about. 

I don't see them as jackasses for standing by their ending. In actuality it makes plenty of sense businesswise to make one so, well, people STFU and get over it. 

But then you're asking people to turn their back on their own work, and maybe they have a little more self-respect than that. Who knows. 

If they had any self respect they wouldn't have delivered the product that they did.

But you're right. Time for me STFU and GTFO. Sayanara Bioware.

Modifié par garf, 24 mars 2012 - 04:18 .

[Mr Indivisible]

Bioware will be out of my pocket if they don't.

[firebreather19]

Grasich wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Dethead123 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

I think in this situation, just as many people who swear they'll never buy another Bioware game again would be offset by the folks who find Bioware taking a stand ballsy and worth supporting.

I think most people would just see them as jackasses who don't give a crap about their consumers. Them making new endings doesn't affect anyone on the other side of the ending argument.

Depends on what we're talking about. Extended ending or clarification is one thing, but a new ending is what I'm talking about. 

I don't see them as jackasses for standing by their ending. In actuality it makes plenty of sense businesswise to make one so, well, people STFU and get over it. 

But then you're asking people to turn their back on their own work, and maybe they have a little more self-respect than that. Who knows. 

I sense much senseless rage. Or trolling. Not sure which. Maybe both.

Rage? Trolling? I'm posing questions...it's not a discussion unless a counter viewpoint is expressed. It's just a bandwagon. 

[Dethead123]

firebreather19 wrote...

I don't see Madden, NCAA, or Battlefield getting perfect scores. Shadows of the Damned was a business failure but critical success for the company. It's hitting both fronts: popularity and critical success.

Madden, NCAA, and Battlefield are extremely popular and are purchased by nearly all fans (and many casuals as well) of those franchises. What you have here is vastly different. You have a bunch of life long fans of bioware threatening to never purchase another thing again. To not get as much money as they used to be getting EA would label Bioware a liability and they would be dropped.

[panamakira]

We're right but they're also right. We should be able to find compromise without them screwing up the series with those endings. Wait they did........so maybe them fixing is not such a bad idea.....

I'm still trying to figure out myself if that extra content we might be getting might be worth it. I don't really need an explanation as to WHY the Normandy gets stranded no matter what or WHY the relays must be destroyed every time, that's not going to make it better but I have a feeling that's exactly what they're doing.

[firebreather19]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Rawr rawr rawr bioware i'm so mad you can't have my 60 dollars take that i bet your pocket full of 6000000000000 dollars is going to feel it


Come on, if people actually do manage to commit to not buying Bioware games, it's not going to matter because EA owns it and Madden, NCAA, Battlefield, etc. will never go away. And that money funnels in so Bioware can make their masterpiece games and EA gets popularity and association with fantastic games like Dead Space and ME. You are not that important that the entirety of game development will change because one person wants to hurt themselves by not purchasing good video games.

Ah, I love people like you. So ripe for the mocking.

But really, don't you think it's a little sad people expect Bioware to look at the forums and say "Hey, that guy's not buying any more of our stuff. We need to fix this NOW!" 

Seriously, I was like one of 10 people who loved Dragon Age 2. I can't imagine how batcrazy the forums were when that game came out.

Yeah, when it's 50,000+ people motivated enough to find and join a FB group about it, and hundreds of thousands more who just accepted it, you have a problem.

Oh no they joined a Facebook group. That was...well, really quite bandwagony of them.

[Unit-Alpha]

firebreather19 wrote...

Grasich wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Dethead123 wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

I think in this situation, just as many people who swear they'll never buy another Bioware game again would be offset by the folks who find Bioware taking a stand ballsy and worth supporting.

I think most people would just see them as jackasses who don't give a crap about their consumers. Them making new endings doesn't affect anyone on the other side of the ending argument.

Depends on what we're talking about. Extended ending or clarification is one thing, but a new ending is what I'm talking about. 

I don't see them as jackasses for standing by their ending. In actuality it makes plenty of sense businesswise to make one so, well, people STFU and get over it. 

But then you're asking people to turn their back on their own work, and maybe they have a little more self-respect than that. Who knows. 

I sense much senseless rage. Or trolling. Not sure which. Maybe both.

Rage? Trolling? I'm posing questions...it's not a discussion unless a counter viewpoint is expressed. It's just a bandwagon. 

Is the band on the wagon good, like U2? Because, if so, I'll hop right on.

[Unit-Alpha]

firebreather19 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Rawr rawr rawr bioware i'm so mad you can't have my 60 dollars take that i bet your pocket full of 6000000000000 dollars is going to feel it


Come on, if people actually do manage to commit to not buying Bioware games, it's not going to matter because EA owns it and Madden, NCAA, Battlefield, etc. will never go away. And that money funnels in so Bioware can make their masterpiece games and EA gets popularity and association with fantastic games like Dead Space and ME. You are not that important that the entirety of game development will change because one person wants to hurt themselves by not purchasing good video games.

Ah, I love people like you. So ripe for the mocking.

But really, don't you think it's a little sad people expect Bioware to look at the forums and say "Hey, that guy's not buying any more of our stuff. We need to fix this NOW!" 

Seriously, I was like one of 10 people who loved Dragon Age 2. I can't imagine how batcrazy the forums were when that game came out.

Yeah, when it's 50,000+ people motivated enough to find and join a FB group about it, and hundreds of thousands more who just accepted it, you have a problem.

Oh no they joined a Facebook group. That was...well, really quite bandwagony of them.

classy. Guess what happened to sale of your beloved DA2? They collapsed to 20% of DAO's in 3 weeks.

Also, that *is* trolling, FYI.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 24 mars 2012 - 04:21 .

[malra]

hey, isn't battlefield 3 one of those games where EA listened to the community and made changes?