1316 réponses à ce sujet

[Aurica]

Luc0s wrote...

But is it fair and/or realistic for players to demand a new ending, especially when the ending is a non-interactive part of the game, a cut-scene that is part of the narrative, the story? Are we players within our right to demand changes in that?

Let me ask you this: Are we in our right to demand a new ending for Lord of The Rings? Is it fair if we demand a new ending for Harry Potter?

Of course not!  But we paid for the product, its only fair for us to express our disappointment with the product.  I'm okay with BW sticking to their guns.  Afterall they don't answer to us.  Let them retain artistic integrity and keep the ending the way it is. 

But then again its like watching an awesome movie with a terrible ending that doesn't make sense as well.  People are going to walk out of the theater and talk to their friends about it.  Those that don't like it will tell their friends not to buy it.  Those that watch it before and didn't enjoy it might boycott that series of movies or the director... etc etc.

The same is for video games such as ME3.  Ultimately its up to BW to decide which is more important, retaining loyal customers or their creative vision for the trilogy. 

Alternatively, they can simply ignore their loyal fans and target a brand new audience.  Much like what EA Sims division is doing.  

Modifié par Aurica, 24 mars 2012 - 12:09 .

[Unit-Alpha]

Tazzmission wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Well, the problem is that once it leaves the dev's hands and they sell it as a product with ****ING DAY ONE DLC it is no longer art and can thus be changed by consumer demand.

That, and we were blatantly lied to, breaking the reader-writer contract.

says who you?


get over yourself because i would love some evidence to back up your claim like a legislation that says such a thing

As is obvious by your grammar, I don't think you have the slightest clue what the reader-writer contract is.

[Sc2mashimaro]

Luc0s wrote...

If BioWare decides to do nothing, I'll be hugely dissapoined, but I'll still fully support them.
They are within their right to do whatever they want with the narrative in their games and we players have no say over that.

There is a middle road here, you know. It's contained in the part of your post that I quoted. We are within our rights to ask for changes and Bioware is within their rights to refuse and say, "You just have to accept it as-is". There is no obligation for Bioware to change the ending and there is no obligation for us to say nothing about what we would like them to do about it. The only thing that has been a "wrong", so far, is the tone and accusations some asking for another ending have taken up. It has never been "us vs. Bioware" - it has always about getting them to see our point of view so that they would take up the cause of rectifying the ending themselves.

[thedancingdruid]

It's wonderful that they're revising Mass Effect: Deception but I still have my $7.99 paperback copy? That doesn't help me.

Well OP you just might get that wish ...

http://imgur.com/eMYVd

For me personally, that's fine, but to me a video game is art and Bioware's art type then is not for me any longer. It's not over my head. I haven't changed, their art has and I don't like it any longer.

Modifié par dafangirl, 24 mars 2012 - 12:04 .

[Qutayba]

Wolfsong27 wrote...

I think it's unfair to call a whole subject 'art'.
No, I don't think -all- movies are art.
Some are just shameless attempts to grab money.

Also, what about music? Is music art? And what about remixes?

Yes, all movies are art.  All creative writing is art.  All music is art.  Video games are art.  Maybe not GOOD art, but art nonetheless.  "Art" doesn't mean "classic."  The latter is a title earned through years of positive critical reception.

[mechalynx]

I might get banned bor this, but at this point, who cares? Considering that I had to sign 3 different EULA's before I could launch the game, I'd say that I am currently in business with EA/BioWare. They have promised me, several times, certain features in the game, were I to buy it. I assured them of my money, intimate knowledge of my chardware and software (grudgingly) and no funny business with their material without their approval. Guess who kept up their part of the bargain and who did not?

Am I therefore so unreasonable in my desire to get those 16 vastly different non-ABC endings that Casey and co were dangling in front of my eyes since ME1 came out? 

3 EULAs, BioWare. 3 contracts. 

Modifié par mechalynx, 24 mars 2012 - 12:09 .

[Marque De Leon]

Luc0s wrote...

I did read the whole article. And it seems pretty clear to me that though the developers are not against changing the ending in a game, they do think that demanding a change in the ending is wrong. I agree with that.

Get this through your thick head: NO ONE IS FORCING BIOWARE TO DO ANYTHING. The movement are just vocal fans that complain in a demanding way because they are passionate about it.

Let me reiterate: NO ONE IS PUTTING A GUN TO BIOWARE'S HEADS TO FORCE THEM TO DO ANYTHING. If anything, your beef is with THEM for listening to vocal feedback that might change their vision.

[Rockpopple]

The Mass Effect Deception example doesn't hold that much water.

There's a big difference between something being "changed" and something being "corrected".

However, that's why I'm in favour of them clarifying the endings with extra scenes and whatnot to expand on them so they make sense. To me that'd be a correction, rather than changing them completely.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 24 mars 2012 - 12:05 .

[CPTHughJardon]

Baronesa wrote...

uhmm What is your opinion on Mass Effect Deception?

BioWare and Del Rey Books are changing the book to accommodate costumer's feedback.

Why is it ok for BioWare to do that on the 4th Book of Mass Effect, but not good for ME3 endings?

absolutely this!! i was wondering when someone was going to say this.easy answer is its cheaper to change a book

[Primalrose]

Pottumuusi wrote...

Hasn't this been covered before?
They have the right to make any sort of ending they want.
I have a right to think that their ending is terrible and say that it would be better if they did X.
They have the right to change or not change the endings if they want to. They just have to decide if they like their "artistic integrity" or whatever better than they like my money.

Truer words could not have been said.

[QwertyMusicMan]

I was never demanding anything. Just asking for it. It's ultimately Bioware's decision, and anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid.

[SoulDire]

Luc0s wrote...

Atmospeer wrote...

They can hardly do whatever they want when it's the consumer that decides whether their company survives or not.

Yes, you as the consumer are within your right to vote with your wallet (so to speak). But you are not within your right to demand a new ending. "You don't get to make demands of a council, ambassador!" 

You can voice your opinion. You can decide not to buy future products of BioWare (I know I'll think twice before I buy a new BioWare game), but you cannot demand a new ending.

What about the people who demanded same-sex relationships, or romances with certain characters? We have the right to demand whatever we want, just as they have the right not to make any changes. In the end it's a business decision, not an artistic one.

[Tazzmission]

TexasToast712 wrote...

 Lucos is indoctrinated. You know what must be done, BSN.

no op finally sees through the bs wich is the movment


that dosent mean hes your enemy


alot of you guys seem to fail at understanding how things work because you have nothing to back up your argument other than interent bioware social network polls

[Sohlito]

Luc0s wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Well, the problem is that once it leaves the dev's hands and they sell it as a product with ****ING DAY ONE DLC it is no longer art and can thus be changed by consumer demand.

That, and we were blatantly lied to, breaking the reader-writer contract.

WRONG!

The cutscenes, narrative and story within games are very much art and always will be art.

Are movies art? If you answer is "yes" than you should also understand why the non-interactive parts of video-games are art.

I just want to chime in here, defending something on the premise of "artistic integrity" is a tricky line to walk. For example, a decade ago there was an artist who made a collage depicting the Virgin Mary, but he utilized elephant poop in it's creative process. So what you had was essentially Mary covered in poop. Would you consider that art? If you do, then you have to be willing to accept and understand that many might not, and to me what it boils down to is interpretation, preference, and opinion. Not everyone can have the same one.

And in my personal opinion, once you slap on a price tag onto a created piece it stops being art and instead becomes a commodity.

[Hexley UK]

The fact is most of us LOVE this game, the others in the series and Bioware, thats why we care enough to complain when the end does not match the quality of everything else.

I think sometimes people forget this.

[WeAreLegionWTF]

ive upgraded to more reflect the probable truth...

[Pottumuusi]

Marque De Leon wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

I did read the whole article. And it seems pretty clear to me that though the developers are not against changing the ending in a game, they do think that demanding a change in the ending is wrong. I agree with that.

Get this through your thick head: NO ONE IS FORCING BIOWARE TO DO ANYTHING. The movement are just vocal fans that complain in a demanding way because they are passionate about it.

Let me reiterate: NO ONE IS PUTTING A GUN TO BIOWARE'S HEADS TO FORCE THEM TO DO ANYTHING. If anything, your beef is with THEM for listening to vocal feedback that might change their vision.

This + a thousand suns.

[Unit-Alpha]

Tazzmission wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

 Lucos is indoctrinated. You know what must be done, BSN.

no op finally sees through the bs wich is the movment


that dosent mean hes your enemy


alot of you guys seem to fail at understanding how things work because you have nothing to back up your argument other than interent bioware social network polls

Protip: Terrible grammar means people disregard you as ignorant, as I have.

[Icetea07]

Um as an artist, you create the art. Those that buy your art have the right to not like it and even say i would like you to change it because they spent money on it. And becuase the artist creates the art , they have the right to say um no, i created it and this is the way it will stay. And deal with the fallout afterwards.

[BadlyBrowned]

Still not sure how we are really forcing them to do anything. EA is really the one who can tell them to do whatever they (EA) wants. As fans and as customers we can yell as much as we want, but it doesn't really "force" Bioware to do anything, they already have our money.

As far as I'm concerned I just won't buy anymore Bioware products. That's my way of "holding the line."

Modifié par BadlyBrowned, 24 mars 2012 - 12:08 .

[Tazzmission]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Well, the problem is that once it leaves the dev's hands and they sell it as a product with ****ING DAY ONE DLC it is no longer art and can thus be changed by consumer demand.

That, and we were blatantly lied to, breaking the reader-writer contract.

says who you?


get over yourself because i would love some evidence to back up your claim like a legislation that says such a thing

As is obvious by your grammar, I don't think you have the slightest clue what the reader-writer contract is.

says the guy who believes bioware false advertises a product


and omg grammar argument boho seriously bro get a life


tell me again mr smarty how did bioware falsley advertise the product that THEY not you THEY made?

Modifié par Tazzmission, 24 mars 2012 - 12:08 .

[Kilshrek]

Best just take your sigs down and stop talking about the ending then, OP?

[Zix13]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Well, the problem is that once it leaves the dev's hands and they sell it as a product with ****ING DAY ONE DLC it is no longer art and can thus be changed by consumer demand.

That, and we were blatantly lied to, breaking the reader-writer contract.

This.

The day one dlc causes the "it is entirely art" argument.
The breaking of the reader-writer contract/ false advertising dismantles the entitlement argument. Especially since the reader-writer relationship is even more critical in an interactive story.

As far as I know, these are the only two arguments that keep appearing...

Modifié par Zix13, 24 mars 2012 - 12:09 .

[Baronesa]

Rockpopple wrote...

The Mass Effect Deception example doesn't hold that much water.

There's a big difference between something being "changed" and something being "corrected".

However, that's why I'm in favour of them clarifying the endings with extra scenes and whatnot to expand on them so they make sense. To me that'd be a correction, rather than changing them completely.

But the changes are viewed by peopel as a correction, because the ending is disconnected with the rest of the storytelling of not only the game, but the entire trilogy. The whole ending section , specially the part with spacebrat, comes out of left field, with an explanation that we are forced to accept (out of character for Shepard)