523 réponses à ce sujet

[force192]

I already knew that they were not going to make a new ending.

[Father_Jerusalem]

corpselover wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

corpselover wrote...


He has every right to attack your opinion. Just like you attack everyone else's. Attacking your position on an issue is NOT a personal attack. It is an argument, or more politely a discussion. Seeing that we are in a forum for discussion it should not be that surprising.

I don't attack opinions, I attack facts. That's different. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and when someone says "I don't like" the ending, I certainly am not going to try and rage at them because their opinion is invalid. It's when people attack facts about the ending that I jump in to clarify and try to make people realize they're misinterpreting certain things as part of an agenda. 

Please, tell me where I've ever rewritten something someone's said, as a statement of opinion, in order to make it say the exact opposite in an attempt to diminish them.

You have done very little attacking of facts over the last week. Either way, it is not wrong to attack an opinon. It is certainly not an attack to the author of the opinion either.

BTW, attacking a fact makes no sense. If it is open to attack it is not a fact.

Believe me, that last line is something I've been saying for DAYS, but it just won't sink in with some people.

[Viyu]

If you guys don't like this "clarity" stuff, then why doesn't somebody make a petition already?

[Father_Jerusalem]

Salis777 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
...

But, they ARE listening. They are taking feedback into account. To what degree, we just don't know yet.

To accuse BioWare of NOT listening is dishonest and only serves to try and push an agenda.

They listen but only to things that make them look good.

Well.

Wouldn't you?

No if I was in finance in EA right now I'd be redirecting things.

So if you asked me if those pants made your butt look fat, you'd rather me say "OMG so fat" over "Whaaaaat? No, of course not. Your ass be slammin'!"

EVERYBODY listens to things that make them look good. It's human nature.

[Father_Jerusalem]

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
...

But, they ARE listening. They are taking feedback into account. To what degree, we just don't know yet.

To accuse BioWare of NOT listening is dishonest and only serves to try and push an agenda.

They listen but only to things that make them look good.

Well.

Wouldn't you?

Yes, but i would (and do) listen to the people who say what is wrong. So, I would listen to both sides and not ignore one of them because they make me look bad.

Okay. Prove to me where they're ignoring your side.

[Gatt9]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Sadly, there are already those that are refusing to compromise on anything. The "hold the line" thing is all well and good, but I'm already seeing an all or nothing response from them. It's either their way or the highway.

Alot of people seem to be having a hard time understandng what is really happening here.

First and foremost,  there's no need for compromise.  This isn't a relationship,  this isn't a family,  this isn't a friendship.  This is a producer/consumer relationship.  If people are unhappy with the output of the producer,  they have no need to comprimise.  They simply do not buy more of it.  No one needs to "Settle" for a clarification.

Second,  people keep trying to use the "Artwork" defense,  which is synonymous for the pre-release arguement of "They only have to make the game they want to make".  Both arguements fail when you realize that they need our money to continue to make games.  Handing each other $50 isn't going to keep the company around.

Third,  this is a critical point for EA's survival.  It's obvious people have had it with EA's quality and buisness plans.  If EA fails to deliver a satisfactory,  free,  conclusion that fullfills what they stated the game would be,  EA goes out of buisness in about 18 months at most.  Their reputation is pretty much the lowest possible,  the Gamers are turning against them en masse,  they will not be able to sell enough games to continue.  The NFL and FIFA will pull their licenses,  they are both highly protective of the integrity of their licenses and will not partner with a company regarded poorly.

The Industry just hit a tipping point.  Gamers are tired of rushed or half-baked games,  false promises,  useless reviews,  and money grabs.  EA will be the first high-profile victim of a major shift in gaming.

People *really* need to drop the defense,  when Forbes,  the publication all of EA's investors,  all of the decision makers in the NFL and FIFA,  are reading is talking about their controversial mistakes,  EA's in an enourmous amount of trouble. 

Either the Gamers make EA/Bioware understand,  or the defenders can watch as EA shows the gaming world "Too big to fail" doesn't mean anything here either.

Modifié par Gatt9, 24 mars 2012 - 04:41 .

[inversevideo]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

I'll actually laugh if that's what BioWare was planning all along. The whole scene with the starchild took place in Shepard's mind and the "breathe" scene is him snapping out of it.

Actually this is the only explanation that would make any sense. Shepard got knocked cold and Reaper's are playing with his mind.

If not, the introduction of Catalyst breaks the whole series, for reason's I cannot get into in a 'no spoiler' forum.

[Father_Jerusalem]

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

...

Believe me, that last line is something I've been saying for DAYS, but it just won't sink in with some people.

It won't even sink in with you. Yes, I have been doing it too and for just as long... maybe longer... and not just on the internet.

Yet, I've conceded the point several times when the facts are against me, not one person from your side has conceded when the facts are against them. How is that not sinking in to me?

[darthnick427]

I will only accept the Indoctrination Theory at this point if they aren't changing the ending. That is the only "Clarification and closure I will accept. That and No Normandy stranded in the middle of ****ing no where without Shepard and No Mass Relay total destruction

[Father_Jerusalem]

slyguy200 wrote...


They are stubbornly not fixing/adding choices to the ending but cheaply "clarifying" it, and it has been made abundantly clear by us that we want more than just that.

Okay, prove to me where they're not fixing/adding choices to the ending. Because the statement *I* saw is that that they're clarifying AND adding content. To what extents, none of us know.

There has been one statement. With no details following. And on the basis of this statement, you're assuming that BioWare is lying to you and not listening to you.

Don't you think that's just a LITTLE bit extreme? At least until we know more?

[Lincoln MuaDib]

I_Jedi wrote...

If it's the indoc theory, Bioware is forgiven.

Not really. If it's that theory, then they've taken the joke too far. I mean, say on the morning of April 1st your mom tells you that school has decreed that you have to paint yourself green.

Does she admit it's an April Fool's joke when she sees your shocked face?

When she sees you going into the bathroom to paint?

Sure, you feel relief when you realise you've been fooled. But there's a point where the joke has been taken taken too far.

BioWare, if the Indoctrination theory is the right one, is like if that mom had waited until she's dropped you off at the school gates, naked but for a coat of Tropical Jungle Emerald Glossy, who then yells, "April Fool honey! Ha ha!" then drives away.

[InvincibleHero]

It remains to be seen what will be done, but I hope they (BW) take Capt. Kirrahe's speech to heart i(n ME). In 2013 BW can say they held the line and it will have been a big accomplishment.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 24 mars 2012 - 04:52 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

corpselover wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Salis777 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
...

But, they ARE listening. They are taking feedback into account. To what degree, we just don't know yet.

To accuse BioWare of NOT listening is dishonest and only serves to try and push an agenda.

They listen but only to things that make them look good.

Well.

Wouldn't you?

No if I was in finance in EA right now I'd be redirecting things.

So if you asked me if those pants made your butt look fat, you'd rather me say "OMG so fat" over "Whaaaaat? No, of course not. Your ass be slammin'!"

EVERYBODY listens to things that make them look good. It's human nature.

Except Bioware is a corporation that is interested in profit. They don't need to make themselves feel better.They know they need to make customers happy, not delude themselves.

They're MAKING profit. ME3 is already the most profitable Mass Effect game. So... tell me why they need to listen to you to "make customers happy"? 

And for every fan that leaves, one will replace them when they see the advertising for the next game BioWare makes. 

Not to mention they're getting HAMMERED for talking about fixing the ending from game websites and magazines, that seems, to me, to be counterintuitive to your whole position... 

[Father_Jerusalem]

slyguy200 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...


They are stubbornly not fixing/adding choices to the ending but cheaply "clarifying" it, and it has been made abundantly clear by us that we want more than just that.

Okay, prove to me where they're not fixing/adding choices to the ending. Because the statement *I* saw is that that they're clarifying AND adding content. To what extents, none of us know.

There has been one statement. With no details following. And on the basis of this statement, you're assuming that BioWare is lying to you and not listening to you.

Don't you think that's just a LITTLE bit extreme? At least until we know more?

Adding content could mean anything. Yet, you point out with every chance you get that they said they would only clarify the ending. Not lying but not really being truthfull at the same time. 

Well, yes it is extreme, YOU DO IT TOO

Because my opinion is that ADDING to the ending is a GOOD thing. That's my whole opinion. I want addition, I want clarification. How are those bad things? 

Hell, how is wanting to hold off on the tar and feathering until we actually know SOME information "extreme"? Sheesh.

[thehomeworld]

joejoe099 wrote...

maybe use indoct theory? Theory is good and solid, and they wouldn't have to change the ending at all too. basically add on like bethesda did with fallout 3 after so many people hated the ending

The theory is not solid:

Considering the larger implications of It, if I just excluded the fact the no one can release themselves from indoctrination for a moment its bad in the sense that shep is still in the ruble and dying! That means it was a dream before he wakes up in said situation he is either

(A) Now too hurt to continue to stop the reapers or

( has to drag his ass to the beam again to do exactly the same thing he did before with minus the whole shooting Anderson and starchild events.

Both mean shep has lost valuable time his fleets both on ground and in space are getting more and more thinned out while he's laying there which means by the time we get to whatever it is that truly controlled the crucible in the first place we would've lost 50 - 80% of our troops so while we're there racking our brains to figure out how to turn on the crucible (considering it will turn on in reality now) by the time we get around to destroying, loving, cooperating with the reapers our troops aren’t' going to fair well and sheps probably still going to bleed to death before he can either (A) have a doctor get up through the beam to get him or ( drag his ass back to the exit point and that's being generous thinking the beam works both ways and infact won't be shut down as a result of shep's choice to love, destroy, or cooperate with the reapers.


Now back to the indoctrination breaking free problem; YOU CAN'T DO IT! Benezia, TIM, Saren, Feros girl, and other couldn't do it.

But wait TIM only got hit by a beacon and lived! But he also plugged into his brain the whatever he used on sanctuary to turn people into husks he is now a more advanced husk but still indoctrinated.

But shep hasn't been exposed to enough reaper tech! Yes he has:

1. the beacons based off of reaper tech

2. Rho for 2 days sedated within the base within range of the reaper waves how do I know this? The staff in that area complain about it! Also a sleeping at rest mind will accept lies, propaganda, and other brainwashing techniques easily and without question so shep could've gotten up to a weeks worth of waves and influence done in just 2 day

3 EDI has reaper tech in her Shep may also have reaper tech in him this could be benign it could also indoctrinate until the LP files are known this is a wild card

4. The geth world he was plugged into the same system as reaper code was this could also imprint itself onto him

5. Out cold next to Harbi we know reapers admit waves sense ME he could've always broadcasted that while shep laid there his mind yet again accepting anything Harbi told him as truth.

We first meet Benezia who states that no matter how strong the mind or the will given long enough exposure to a reaper's influence you too will become a thrawl like her. She broke out of its hold for 3 minuets before she was overcome.

6. Shaila (the consort) walk around there listen to the people, her people! They feel called to come back to work for her, every member there is in a spell over her, they can't put their finger on why she's everything to everyone they just don't know it yet. To me this girl screams reaper thrawl and a willing one at that if you melded with this girl you've got two thrawl melds and potential reaper corruption!

Saren: Questioned his programming but in the end was retrofitted like shep and even though a part of him knew what was happening more of him wanted to just keep doing what the reapers said and in the end if you make him kill himself they just take over his tech anyway.

Feros girl: Became a thrawl along side Benezia then was given to the plant she now claims still to feel the plants influence over her connecting her to her gang of colonist but also to hear the reapers signals and feel them calling her. She says the only way she's fighting them off is to live beside her colonist and they must stay as a hive minds otherwise they will answer the reapers calls.

We have many other examples during ME of indoctrination some knew it was happening but once that epiphany struck they still couldn't do much to stop them from turning.

The end result was known via vigil once the reapers leave a system the thrawls can no longer function they become mindless and no longer have a self preservation instinct.

So this suggest only a few loop holes for an indoctrinated shep who is only semi broken the hold of Harbi he'll become a mindless thrawl once he chooses to destroy the reapers, or if you can keep a constant power source running on a reaper artifact he can live within the area it is housed and no one else can because they would be indoctrinated he must stay near the item to literally keep functioning.

So the indoctrination theory ends way worse then any confusing ending of the Normandy crashing ever could you will not get a happy ending out of this other then shep's alive unless BW wishes to override and retconn how they've established for 3 games how indoctrination actually works all because its shep and when shep is involved all lore, law, and physics can go out the window.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And if it's a dream shep is having after he got cooked by Harbi's laser then:

(A) Now too hurt to continue to stop the reapers or

has to drag his ass to the beam again to do exactly the same thing he did before with minus the whole shooting Anderson and starchild events.

Both mean shep has lost valuable time his fleets both on ground and in space are getting more and more thinned out while he's laying there which means by the time we get to whatever it is that truly controlled the crucible in the first place we would've lost 50 - 80% of our troops so while we're there racking our brains to figure out how to turn on the crucible (considering it will turn on in reality now) by the time we get around to destroying, loving, cooperating with the reapers our troops aren’t' going to fair well and sheps probably still going to bleed to death before he can either

(A) have a doctor get up through the beam to get him or

( drag his ass back to the exit point and that's being generous thinking the beam works both ways and infact won't be shut down as a result of shep's choice to love, destroy, or cooperate with the reapers.

[Mole267]

lol "fine wine".

If anything ME3 is more like Grey Goose vodka... It's not the worst, it's not the best, but it's definitely overrated.

[Psychlonus]

The only fix is a Mass Effect reboot.