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No new endings after all.


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#376
evil-pineapples

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Calemyr wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Regardless, I'm done with them if this is true.


There are people who will be done no matter what is true at this point. Keep it, scrap it, extend it, ignore it, this is going to be damaging however they do it, and they don't have Shepard to yell us into negotiations. 

The thing is, the longer they refuse to tell us anything, the longer they keep trolling their own fan-base with loudly-silent teasers ("oh, I wish I could tell you...") and verbose pseudo-apologies that put the blame on the audience for just not "getting it" and elegantly worded non-promises, the worse this reaction is going to get. 

Yeah, they really screwed themselves this time.

I should have seen this coming in retrospect. DA2, the Bazaar incident, Deception, issues with TOR that should never have passed quality control...

#377
ZtalkerRM

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evil-pineapples wrote...

 http://imgur.com/eMYVd

Goodbye, BioWare.


If this post is true, a relationship that started with Baldurs Gate comes to an end. No hard feelings, had a great time.
The nice blonde over there is called Bethesda by the way. Dating her now. You girls know oneother?

#378
WhiteKnyght

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Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...

*reads OP*
*hyperventilates*

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Indoctrination only happens from prologued close proximity to a Reaper object. Being hit by a thanix blast isn't enough to get it going. Also the symptoms are very subtle in the early stages. Your every decision and action is tailored to the Reapers presence and you believe it is your own. There's no big dream or hallucination where you choose one way and bam, you're indoctrinated -- and choose another and boom, you resist. Ability to choose is the first thing to go. If you can choose to go against the Reapers, you're not being indoctrinated.

Nightmares about the reapers, hearing voices, and seeing things in your peripheral vision are other symptoms. Followed by a sense of sympathy for the Reapers, and ends with a total loss of higher cognative function.


Rapid indoctrination is possible according to the codex entry on indoctrination.

-edit- Although it doesn't specify how fast "rapid" is so who knows if it would be possible in the timespan Shepard was unconscious.


IIRC, rapid indoctrination has a nasty side effect. They go from being normal to having the intelligence of a husk in a short amount of time.

And considering Shepard isn't blue and drooling and groaning like a zombie, I'd say that isn't the case. :P

#379
Guest_corpselover_*

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Hathur wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Regardless, I'm done with them if this is true.


So hundreds of hours of enjoyment you experienced throughout all 3 games is suddenly invalidated completely because you disliked the last 30-60 mintues of the game and will cement your decision never to try their games again?

Seems... well.. excessive.

You still received countless hours of enjoyment from everything leading up to that last 1% or less of the game / story.... there's more sensible things to base your future product purchases on... such as draconian DRM issues on the PC version, etc.... but calling it quits because you didnt like the end of the game?

Well, ok.. you're completely entitled to of course... just seems excessive is all...

Just remember... they didn't magically shove an eraser in your brain and remove all those hours of fun you had prior to it, you know?... those feelings of enjoyment are still there and haven't been invalidated... you're just choosing to ignore them because you're upset it didn't end the way you hoped it would.

If I may grant a real world example... as a teen and into my early 20s I loved skiing and snowboarding... I spent countless hours doing it and had imeasureable fun with it... until I had a skiing disaster that shoved a sapling throuigh my thigh... took me a year before I was walking properly again... and I've never been skiing since... far too afraid to try it again.

That horrible ending to my skiing life did not invalidate and erase the times before it... I still can look back and say "wow ... that was fun being able to ski... great times" .... despite the fact my last memory of sking involved inconceivable amouints of physical pain and months of emtional pain.

Sigh. 


And if the Ski resort had repeatedly told you they had removed any and all dangerous foliage from the routes? And you found out they had not done that at all, and in fact they knew that it had not been done at all but just said as much to get you on the hill. Would you ever consider skiing there again? In this analogy we are not giving up skiing (games). We are just giving up skiing at a particular resort (BIoware), because it appears they don't mind lying to customers, and they don't seem to care to put in the effort necessary to address our concerns.

Modifié par corpselover, 24 mars 2012 - 06:06 .


#380
ile_1979

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Hathur wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Regardless, I'm done with them if this is true.


So hundreds of hours of enjoyment you experienced throughout all 3 games is suddenly invalidated completely because you disliked the last 30-60 mintues of the game and will cement your decision never to try their games again?

Seems... well.. excessive.

You still received countless hours of enjoyment from everything leading up to that last 1% or less of the game / story.... there's more sensible things to base your future product purchases on... such as draconian DRM issues on the PC version, etc.... but calling it quits because you didnt like the end of the game?
......


Excessive? Maybe. But then again this is strike 2 and a foul. Baldur's Gate to DA:O, this developer was alpha and omega in my book. Now, after 2 in a row missfires and a total shift in policy? I see no reason to associate myself with them. It's not even the same team anymore. Different people working for different people, making games that cater to different audiences. Come to think of it, i was not loyal to the name of the company, i was loyal to the  content they released. They do it no longer.

#381
Loup Blanc

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evil-pineapples wrote...

 http://imgur.com/eMYVd

Goodbye, BioWare.


This. Buh-bye !

You won't be missed Bioware.

#382
Ridan82

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Thats the key isn it. My money on me2 feels completly and utterly wasted. Everything I fought hard to acchive there knowing well knowing bio promised a third game that would reward my hard work. Al this they scrap in 5 minutes or so.

So yes for me thoose hours today feels wasted even thou I enjoed it then I so hoped to be able to go from 1 to 3 again creating that perfekt shep in my world. That will not happen as I now know no matter what choise I make and take it wont matter for ****. Kinda hoping they will release a dlc for 1 and 2 providing only action mode with minimum dialog that I might play trhough again. Well knowing that its just another shooter my actions dont mean **** its just for the chill to kill.

#383
CptSpectacu1ar

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I'm usually one to think something is better then nothing, but building on something so distressingly disconnected to the rest of the franchise makes me just as sad.

#384
Nifel

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Currently playing through ME1 again. Guess it's some kind of attempt at regaining the faith I lost in Bioware after ME3's train wreck of an ending. I really do hate this newfound feeling of that all choices are more or less pointless..

Either way, the current abysmal ending need so much more than just a bit of "closure".

Modifié par Nifel, 24 mars 2012 - 07:08 .


#385
FosterBr717

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Nifel wrote...

Currently playing through ME1 again. Guess it's some kind of attempt at regaining the faith I lost in Bioware after ME3's train wreck of an ending. I really do hate this newfound feeling of that all choices are more or less pointless..

Either way, the current abysmal ending need so much more than just a bit of "closure".


Guess your really going to hate the Mass Effect universe even more when you find out *SPOILER ALERT* Mass Effect only has one ending. No matter what choices you make during the game.

Image IPB

Modifié par FosterBr717, 24 mars 2012 - 07:13 .


#386
Nifel

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FosterBr717 wrote...

Nifel wrote...

Currently playing through ME1 again. Guess it's some kind of attempt at regaining the faith I lost in Bioware after ME3's train wreck of an ending. I really do hate this newfound feeling of that all choices are more or less pointless..

Either way, the current abysmal ending need so much more than just a bit of "closure".


Guess your really going to hate the Mass Effect universe even more when you find out *SPOILER ALERT* Mass Effect only has one ending. No matter what choices you make during the game.

Image IPB


Oh I totally don't hate it. If I did, I probably wouldn't care about the ending. ;)

'sides, I don't mind one ending if it's like..good.

Anyway, I guess I'll just save myself a sore face and palm and refrain from playing past the point where it starts going downhill and instead just wait for that DLC that may or may not come.

Modifié par Nifel, 24 mars 2012 - 07:25 .


#387
AlanC9

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ZtalkerRM wrote...
If this post is true, a relationship that started with Baldurs Gate comes to an end. No hard feelings, had a great time.
The nice blonde over there is called Bethesda by the way. Dating her now. You girls know oneother?


We went out back around Morrowind. Too boring, so I dumped her.

#388
AlanC9

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FosterBr717 wrote...
Guess your really going to hate the Mass Effect universe even more when you find out *SPOILER ALERT* Mass Effect only has one ending. No matter what choices you make during the game.

Image IPB


Actually, there are three. Just because you don't like them doesn't make them the same.

#389
HanPL

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Hmm I think I can already tell how this "clarifying " will look like.

Pick your color.
Image IPB

#390
Well

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InnubisPL wrote...

Hmm I think I can already tell how this "clarifying " will look like.

Pick your color.
Image IPB

lol

#391
Druzgot

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I hope that this expansion of orginal endings will show cosequences of our choices

#392
Persephone

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evil-pineapples wrote...

 http://imgur.com/eMYVd

Goodbye, BioWare.


GOOD.

Expanding/explaining the endings through more dialogue/cutscenes/an epilogue etc. is just what I'd like to see, yep, yep. No blue babies fluff, thank God.

#393
SyyRaaaN

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Persephone wrote...

evil-pineapples wrote...

 http://imgur.com/eMYVd

Goodbye, BioWare.


GOOD.

Expanding/explaining the endings through more dialogue/cutscenes/an epilogue etc. is just what I'd like to see, yep, yep. No blue babies fluff, thank God.


LoL =) I wan't to see them try to explain the vast amount of plot holes. I bet that for every plot hole they explain 2 new ones will arise. its like hydra.

#394
Persephone

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SyyRaaaN wrote...

Persephone wrote...

evil-pineapples wrote...

 http://imgur.com/eMYVd

Goodbye, BioWare.


GOOD.

Expanding/explaining the endings through more dialogue/cutscenes/an epilogue etc. is just what I'd like to see, yep, yep. No blue babies fluff, thank God.


LoL =) I wan't to see them try to explain the vast amount of plot holes. I bet that for every plot hole they explain 2 new ones will arise. its like hydra.


I don't see any more plot holes in this than in any other Bioware game. (DAO is full of them, as is DAII. Even BG has them. But when people LIKE something, plotholes do not "matter"..... heck, Verdi's "Il Trovatore" tells a tale that makes ME3's endings clear, concise and brilliant in comparison. "Il Trovatore" is still adored, plotholes and all) Take that as you wish. Depending on HOW these endings are explained, I will decide whether or not they make sense to me. If they do, fine. If not, head canon to the rescue.

#395
runwhileucan

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Adrian Starkey is in for a rude awakening.

#396
slimgrin

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To clarify and add closure? I think he means to retcon the sh*ttiest ending of any RPG ever. I just love the way people at Bioware talk, fits right in with election season.

Modifié par slimgrin, 25 mars 2012 - 12:01 .


#397
kbct

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I was thinking about Ray's statement and I wanted to play devil's advocate. I wanted to think about his statement from a corporate money-grubbing perspective with counsel from high-paid attorneys:

1.) Compromise, but be vague.

Ray said in his statement that BioWare will provide "clarity" and "closure." Most of the news headlines (IGN, BBC, Yahoo, etc.) interpreted that information to mean the ending would be changed in a significant fashion. The news was shouted to the world.

However, change can mean anything. It can mean one additional scene or it can mean an additional one hour story. Based on Ray's statement, it's up to the news sites and the readers to determine what that means. 
 
You have to look beyond Ray's statement to Twitter to better understand what BioWare intends to do. On Twitter, employees said nothing will be "changed." And that they don't plan to "necessarily alter anything."

So people that heard about Ray's statement and not about the Twitter statements might have higher expectations.
 
That is misleading.

2.) Delay information.

Ray's statement said more information will be available in April. No one that purchased the game when it was released can return the game after the first couple days of April. If the information provided in April is not satisfactory, there will be no recourse for the customer. Amazon's return policy will have expired. So will Origin's exchange policy.

Also, sales drop quickly the first month. That means the first weeks are the most important for ME3 sales. If more people anticipate the game will be fixed to their liking, the more sales BioWare can expect.

Instead of clarifying their remarks now, they pushed them back to April which will provide more false hope to many gamers and more money in EA's pockets.

3.) Divide the fans.

We know from the BSN poll with over 67,000 votes that only 2% like the ending as-is. That means 98% don't like the ending as-is. While we know the vast majority of gamers on BSN don't like the ending, we don't know what was wrong with ending.

BioWare can use this lack of information to their advantage. It breaks apart the movement that wants change. We can no longer point to any evidence.
 
BioWare can assume that a bit of "clarity" and "closure" is what the customers want when in fact they haven't even asked us what would make us happy.

They may be listening, but they haven't asked what the majority wants changed.

#398
Tonymac

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Hathur wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Regardless, I'm done with them if this is true.


So hundreds of hours of enjoyment you experienced throughout all 3 games is suddenly invalidated completely because you disliked the last 30-60 mintues of the game and will cement your decision never to try their games again?

Seems... well.. excessive.

You still received countless hours of enjoyment from everything leading up to that last 1% or less of the game / story.... there's more sensible things to base your future product purchases on... such as draconian DRM issues on the PC version, etc.... but calling it quits because you didnt like the end of the game?

Well, ok.. you're completely entitled to of course... just seems excessive is all...

Just remember... they didn't magically shove an eraser in your brain and remove all those hours of fun you had prior to it, you know?... those feelings of enjoyment are still there and haven't been invalidated... you're just choosing to ignore them because you're upset it didn't end the way you hoped it would.

If I may grant a real world example... as a teen and into my early 20s I loved skiing and snowboarding... I spent countless hours doing it and had imeasureable fun with it... until I had a skiing disaster that shoved a sapling throuigh my thigh... took me a year before I was walking properly again... and I've never been skiing since... far too afraid to try it again.

That horrible ending to my skiing life did not invalidate and erase the times before it... I still can look back and say "wow ... that was fun being able to ski... great times" .... despite the fact my last memory of sking involved inconceivable amouints of physical pain and months of emtional pain.

Sigh. 


How is your replayability for skiing?  Imagine if every time you ski you have to bring your lucky hat, because you are going to have it happen over and over, Hathur.

Bioware took a great game, and filled it with trash.  They enjoy treating their customers like crap - by putting things like countless hours of planet scanning in ME2.  Every time you do another run through you know you are going to spend 4 hours of game time scanning.  To them, its just the helicopter trick in your face.

They missed the point that we play games to enjoy them - to have fun.    I do not play so that I can perfrom drudgery tasks like mousing over planets.  I played for the interaction, for the characters, for the worlds - I enjoyed seeing every side of it - and doing everything I could to get ALL o fmy team out alive.  I do not enjoy knowing that all of my efforts are for naught.  There is ZERO enjoyability in the end.  It is uninspired and cheap.   In my opinion they wanted out of the game and the series so they put in a self destruct button, and force you to click it - watch the lights.  If you tried to end a college writing class paper like that your professor would fail you.

Mass Effect One was the best in the series, in my opinion.  It had a happy(ish) ending and was a blast.  The story had depth, the citadel was huge - all in all I would call Mass Effect One their greatest work of art.  Everything was new, and fun - and the story was amazingly deep.  It had a real plot!

Mass Effect 2 had a lot of trash drudgery that sucked hardcore, along with a final boss fight that was stolen directly from the Terminator movies.  The plot holes were significant because all reapers look the same, yet they are all shaped (supposedly) by the races that comprise them.  Also, the Protheans were not ascended at all - merely extinctified with a few biologically  altered slaves remaining.  That showed you how evil reapers are, and made you want to get to the end of the story.  Reapers are evil!  I wanted to get to the heart of the Evil and stop it.

Mass Effect 3 was highly predicatable in its courses of events, but it brought out the human in every alien and their species.  It was fun in its own right, if not a tad dull with quests being all for nothing.  If only the writers could write!  The ending could have been ANY choice you want to make.  Instead, you are forced into someone elses depressed and sad life  - some writers depression that wears off on their work.  Who said that every series must end on a bad note, and just be trash?  Because thats what we got.  Some depressed mans garbage because he wasn't up to the task or allowing people the simple option of choice.  The whole game/series has been about choice - but in the very end you get no choice at all.  You get a laughably bad ending that is nearly worse then the last boss fight in ME2 - and you don't even get a boss fight in ME3! 

So yeah - if thats how Bioware is going to call it - then I am out.  I don't care how fun the series was.  I put faith in them because the first game was INCREDIBLE.  The second was fun, but had a lot of dullery, and some uninspired ideas for a boss fight.  Out of all of the best writers at bioware, the best they can do is a terminator ripoff?  Really?  That stinks.   For ME3, there was not even a boss fight because they were in such a hurry.  They were running for the fire escape so fast that they didn't even try - they negated our choices, and re-wrote new ones as:  Rosy Red you're Dead, Borg Green if you are mean and want to assimilate the galaxy,  and Depression blue - for the low IQ - types who think that as a dead person you can control reapers.  Bioware let the prowess and accolades of the first two games sway people to buy the third game on faith alone.  With the series over and the book shut, the cash cow is dead.  Obviously the corporate decision is to put as little time into it as possible and let the sales speak for themselves.

I sat there looking at the screen - amazed by the cheapness.  They didn't even try!  Now they want to flex and stand behind it?!  Be my guest!  Stand behind it then - call it art.  After all, we can call anything art - the National Endowment of the Arts has proven that.  ANYTHING can be 'art' - even this sorry excuse for a game.  I hope it was worth it for them.

#399
N7Gold

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Naughty Bear wrote...

How can they even add closure? The amount of plotholes are so big you could fall into it.



Maybe they have the pieces to fill in those plotholes. Just because a jigsaw puzzle is missing 100 pieces doesn't mean it needs to be completely redone. The pieces to fill in the whole thing are just missing. After all, I hate the endings as much as anyone, but as time goes by, I start to believe that the real reason why the endings are so s****y is because BioWare left us wondering what happened-- a very BIG mistake they thought would make ME3 memorable without considering the backlash from fans. I mean, we don't understand what is going on with those endings, and from our confusion, we're beginning to distrust and turn our backs on BioWare. They know what's going to happen in the story while we are completely left in the dark grasping straws and hanging onto theories about whether the endings actually happened or if it was all a dream created by the Reapers to indoctrinate Shepard after he/she got knocked out by the laser blast while BioWare holds back info that would possibly gain our trust back. 

Modifié par N7Gold, 25 mars 2012 - 01:35 .


#400
Oldbones2

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It doesn't matter if they get Morgan Freeman to replace the kid as Voice Actor or if they show me a flowchart written by MIT grads that PROVES RGC right. I'm not the type of person who gives up just because all the odds are against you.

And neither is my Shepard.

In a perfect world there would be no Reaper God Child that comes in a fills the story with ridiculous plot holes five friggin minutes before the end of the game. But we live in this world. So If I can't at least tell the RGC to **** off, or convince him to let us have a chance or just shoot him, clarifying the endings isn't going to cut it for me.