523 réponses à ce sujet

[alayyubi]

Bioware is one of the last developer who knew how to combine RPG into an art. From my perspective, yes the endings left a lot to be desired, but the game series is a masterpiece. I would encourage fans modder if we are still not happy with the endings to create our own, i.e several videos on youtube have the right balance.

For me, the indoctrination theory is the best alternative and in my mind, that is the ending for now. Already in Acceptance mode now.

Here's a thought, enjoy the multiplayer !

[Han Shot First]

Mutineer81 wrote...

And people thought the ending to The Sopranos sucked! Ha! They ain't got nuttin' on BioWare!

That is because people couldn't understand the Sopranos ending. All these people were screaming that the series never had a proper ending, and all they got was a fade to black. They missed the cues that everytime someone walks into the diner, a bell rings on the door, and the camera switches to Tony's point of view as he watches people coming in the door. The shifty looking guy with a Member's Only jacket is the only person in the diner paying attention to Tony (besides his family), and he gets up to go to the bathroom, which is positioned at an angle that if he's a hitman (he is) he'll have a clear shot at the back of Tony's head when he comes out. While he is in the bathroom Meadow comes running in the door, and the audience hears the bell ring as the camera cuts quickly to black. The camera cuts to black because Tony was shot in the back of the head and is dead.  Tony's family sees him getting his brains blown out, but the audience doesn't, because we are put into Tony's point of view as Meadow steps into the diner.

That was foreshadowed in an earlier conversation Tony had also, where it was said that when you get whacked, you probably don't even realize it happens.

Anyway, getting O/T...but the Sopranos ending was amazing and had closure. ME3 does not.

[Basher of Glory]

corpselover wrote...

Hathur wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

Regardless, I'm done with them if this is true.

So hundreds of hours of enjoyment you experienced throughout all 3 games is suddenly invalidated completely because you disliked the last 30-60 mintues of the game and will cement your decision never to try their games again?

Seems... well.. excessive.

You still received countless hours of enjoyment from everything leading up to that last 1% or less of the game / story.... there's more sensible things to base your future product purchases on... such as draconian DRM issues on the PC version, etc.... but calling it quits because you didnt like the end of the game?

Well, ok.. you're completely entitled to of course... just seems excessive is all...

Just remember... they didn't magically shove an eraser in your brain and remove all those hours of fun you had prior to it, you know?... those feelings of enjoyment are still there and haven't been invalidated... you're just choosing to ignore them because you're upset it didn't end the way you hoped it would.

If I may grant a real world example... as a teen and into my early 20s I loved skiing and snowboarding... I spent countless hours doing it and had imeasureable fun with it... until I had a skiing disaster that shoved a sapling throuigh my thigh... took me a year before I was walking properly again... and I've never been skiing since... far too afraid to try it again.

That horrible ending to my skiing life did not invalidate and erase the times before it... I still can look back and say "wow ... that was fun being able to ski... great times" .... despite the fact my last memory of sking involved inconceivable amouints of physical pain and months of emtional pain.

Sigh. 

And if the Ski resort had repeatedly told you they had removed any and all dangerous foliage from the routes? And you found out they had not done that at all, and in fact they knew that it had not been done at all but just said as much to get you on the hill. Would you ever consider skiing there again? In this analogy we are not giving up skiing (games). We are just giving up skiing at a particular resort (BIoware), because it appears they don't mind lying to customers, and they don't seem to care to put in the effort necessary to address our concerns.

This.

Personally I never believed, that the BW-staff considered the current ending really as "good". IMO they planned something, we probably never will know.

It's not the ending per se, which upsets me, but the fact they dare to present us this "dream-god-whatever-thing" after all these years and all these promises and then dare to defend this abomination with terms like "artistic integrity", bought reviews etc.

In my eyes this behaviour shows a deep disrespect for their customers / fans and is again evidence that they simply don't take us seriously.

[ZtalkerRM]

AlanC9 wrote...

ZtalkerRM wrote...
If this post is true, a relationship that started with Baldurs Gate comes to an end. No hard feelings, had a great time.
The nice blonde over there is called Bethesda by the way. Dating her now. You girls know oneother?

We went out back around Morrowind. Too boring, so I dumped her.

Yeah, she has some issues back then. She always did look extremely nice though. Heard that since she´s been around Fallout 3 and Skyrim, she got her act back together. She seems to be nice to the people that support her too!
Yeah, it´s fun to date her right now. And an evening with her doesn´t end in something a,b or c or red, blue, green. It´s always something cool!

[Ridan82]

The thing is they could have sold alot of DLC content ALOT by just giving us the ending they promised just found another thread that shows that they ACCTUALY DID JUST THAT but cut it with about 90% giving us this instead. Now im not sure this is true but kinda hoping so then just restore what we already have on our discs and give us that cut one completed.

If they had given us that ending they could have loaded us al full with DLC and made the game bigger and bigger we would have paid with a smile. Instead the fanbase is pissed as hell Bio looses alot of good will ALOT and we al end up in here yelling into a brickwall.

[furryrage59]

Well i guess i'll have to wait and see if they fix the abomination of an ending so i can get ME3, otherwise, it ends with ME2 for me.

Playing ME2 fairly recently i had the 'shut up and take my money' moment and bought all the dlc as it was a rock solid game (my opinion).

I wonder how far they will go to fix the endings though, it would be great to have closure but not at the risk of ruining the trilogy for myself, which experiencing the ending in its current form would.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Elhanan wrote...
I feel rather bad for anyone that equates a cheating spouse with an unpleasant experince in a game; tis sad..

There is hundreds of comparisons, the main points are that yes, one short thing in comparison to the whole can utterly destroy the the whole, and that those who disliked the ending which cannot understand that just didn't cared about the story as much as we do.
But it seems like those days being able to dive yourself in a story is now percieved as some kind of flaw.

[chengthao]

if its paid DLC, definitely not buying . . . no more BW games for me

[byzantine horse]

Just a question to those of you who say that you "are never buying a Bioware game again, ever" while also wanting new and not expanded endings:

Why should Bioware cater to you?

Now now, I am not saying that Bioware shouldn't, I am just asking why they should. Afterall, if you are going to walk out the door on them no matter what they do, it seems like a waste of time and resources trying to appease you, because they will never succeed. If I had 10 customers who complained and complained about an issue, but I also knew for sure would never come back no matter what I did to solve the issue they complained about, I would not waste my time with them and instead put my time into other things that those who weren't leaving could appreciate.

Just curious. Now there's the problem that those leaving and those staying often have the same issue (with the ending) but I find it interesting that those who adamantly say that they won't ever return are also those who are the loudest regarding getting new endings.

Edit: Spelling.

Modifié par byzantine horse, 25 mars 2012 - 01:20 .

[kbct]

byzantine horse wrote...

Just a question to those of you who say that you "are never buying a Bioware game again, ever" while also wanting new and not expanded endings:

Why should Bioware cater to you?

Because there are plenty of other people that would buy another BioWare game if they fixed the ending.

[Elhanan]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

There is hundreds of comparisons, the main points are that yes, one short thing in comparison to the whole can utterly destroy the the whole, and that those who disliked the ending which cannot understand that just didn't cared about the story as much as we do.
But it seems like those days being able to dive yourself in a story is now percieved as some kind of flaw.

There may be hundreds of comparisons that fall far short of the understanding that no matter how immersive, this is only a game. And it is rather telling that some of those disliking the ending simply assume that those that enjoyed it do not find it immersive.

[Elhanan]

kbct wrote...

Because there are plenty of other people that would buy another BioWare game if they fixed the ending.

And there seem to be plenty that will do so in either case, like myself. Or possibly lose some fans that believe making a new ending is the incorrect decision; dunno.

Bioware has the freedom and right to choose, and I support what ever choice they make. But for those that QQ and head elsewhere because that choice does not match their own desired selection will not be missed by myself.

[byzantine horse]

kbct wrote...
Because there are plenty of other people that would buy another BioWare game if they fixed the ending.

I addressed that in the last paragraph of my post

"Just curious. Now there's the problem that those leaving and those staying often have the same issue (with the ending) but I find it interesting that those who adamantly say that they won't ever return are also those who are the loudest regarding getting new endings."

I was just curious as to why those who complained the loudest often also are those who supposedly are never going to buy another Bioware game again. Wanting the product they feel they were promised is one thing of course, but logically speaking it would be outright wrong by Bioware to appease that segment of people specifically as they suppoedly won't ever bring them any future income as they will supposedly never buy their games again. Which is why I, if I was in Bioware's clothes, would ignore that segment or at least take their opinions with a grain of salt while addressing the concerns of those who don't state that they will never buy a Bioware product again. That doesn't mean that I would ignore their opinions, just their voices and focus on other voices instead, even if they wish for the same.

I know, that was an argument as great as a snake eating its own tail, but I hope that you get what I mean.

[ile_1979]

byzantine horse wrote...

kbct wrote...
Because there are plenty of other people that would buy another BioWare game if they fixed the ending.

I addressed that in the last paragraph of my post

"Just curious. Now there's the problem that those leaving and those staying often have the same issue (with the ending) but I find it interesting that those who adamantly say that they won't ever return are also those who are the loudest regarding getting new endings."

I was just curious as to why those who complained the loudest often also are those who supposedly are never going to buy another Bioware game again. Wanting the product they feel they were promised is one thing of course, but logically speaking it would be outright wrong by Bioware to appease that segment of people specifically as they suppoedly won't ever bring them any future income as they will supposedly never buy their games again. Which is why I, if I was in Bioware's clothes, would ignore that segment or at least take their opinions with a grain of salt while addressing the concerns of those who don't state that they will never buy a Bioware product again. That doesn't mean that I would ignore their opinions, just their voices and focus on other voices instead, even if they wish for the same.

I know, that was an argument as great as a snake eating its own tail, but I hope that you get what I mean.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my choice to buy or not to buy any further content/games made by them, was pretty much imposed with that tweeter post. Before that i actually had a small, slim, tiny erg of hope they would adress the issue. But seing how that care not, i no longer feel the need to either,

[Lord Gremlin]

Rumors are - originally they wanted to make indoctrination and then real ending. Then ran out of time and money and reworked indoctrination into real ending - hence this indoc theory and stuff. It will be interesting to see what they will come up with.

[kbct]

byzantine horse wrote...

kbct wrote...
Because there are plenty of other people that would buy another BioWare game if they fixed the ending.

I addressed that in the last paragraph of my post

"Just curious. Now there's the problem that those leaving and those staying often have the same issue (with the ending) but I find it interesting that those who adamantly say that they won't ever return are also those who are the loudest regarding getting new endings."

I was just curious as to why those who complained the loudest often also are those who supposedly are never going to buy another Bioware game again. Wanting the product they feel they were promised is one thing of course, but logically speaking it would be outright wrong by Bioware to appease that segment of people specifically as they suppoedly won't ever bring them any future income as they will supposedly never buy their games again. Which is why I, if I was in Bioware's clothes, would ignore that segment or at least take their opinions with a grain of salt while addressing the concerns of those who don't state that they will never buy a Bioware product again. That doesn't mean that I would ignore their opinions, just their voices and focus on other voices instead, even if they wish for the same.

I know, that was an argument as great as a snake eating its own tail, but I hope that you get what I mean.

BioWare has probably done a cost/benefit analysis for every scenario whether it be do nothing, tweak the ending, or rewrite the ending. All the evidence points to the fact that most people don't like the ending, however the real question is what the customers will do about it. Will they buy future DLC? Will they buy future BioWare games? Will they trade-in ME3? Will they get a full refund? Will they convince others to not buy ME3?

Each scenario has a cost and a benefit associated with it. The smart business decision would be to choose the one that maximizes long-term profit. That means making the most customers happy.

[byzantine horse]

ile_1979 wrote...
I can't speak for anyone else, but my choice to buy or not to buy any further content/games made by them, was pretty much imposed with that tweeter post. Before that i actually had a small, slim, tiny erg of hope they would adress the issue. But seing how that care not, i no longer feel the need to either,

Fair enough, I don't think that you should ever trust a corporate entity blindly so you're in the right there.

When it comes to things you pay for, you should never bind yourself to a product or producer as a consumer as at some point in time you will feel let down as it didn't live up to the standards they had set before. Don't care for who produces a product, care for the product because that is what you pay for (unless it it produced through malevolent ways like child labour but I have a hard time seeing that happen to the game industry).

I haven't pre-ordered a game in a couple of years (unless the demo is really, really good) and I usually wait for at least a couple of days afterwards. This has nothing to do with user reviews vs critic reviews but because by then you can often find a Let's Play or similar on Youtube which can showcase what a game is like much better than any words or any score can (and besides, never trust scores, numbers are bull**** when it comes to opinions because the value of each number is as varied as each opinion. Look at what people say about the game, not what the rate it as.).

I will personally give everyone the benefit of douct until proven otherwise. Who is to say that Bioware can't be awesome (I think they are still but that's me) again in the future? People change and so do employees and employers, whatever Bioware releases in the future I will look at their product as a clean slate and see if it interests me.

@ kbct
On that you have me convinced then, probably hard to argue in the way I intended in this particular case as the "quitters" and the wider audience's wishes seem to almost completely coincide. I do however still find it very funny whenever I see the two sentences "I demand a new ending" and "I will never buy a Bioware game again" in the same post as catering to those would not be benificial in the least.

Modifié par byzantine horse, 25 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[Fontfillmore]

If there's a new game Bioware produce in the future that is awesome, then of course I am more than happy to try it out.

But in terms of the upcoming ME3 ending DLC, even though I feel the original endings in the disc insulted my intelligence, I would be willing to purchase this DLC if it'll include new alternative endings. However, since now Bioware is saying that won't occur, I failed to see why I should give them a penny more of my money to buy the DLC just to have the same crap shove down my throat.

Modifié par Fontfillmore, 25 mars 2012 - 04:00 .

[die-yng]

If that is all they plan to do, then goodbye Bioware, no matter how it hurts.

The ending stays? Then you don't deserve my money anymore.

[meteng]

Fix the ending = keep buying.

Don't fix the ending = stop buying.

[ile_1979]

byzantine horse wrote...

ile_1979 wrote...
I can't speak for anyone else, but my choice to buy or not to buy any further content/games made by them, was pretty much imposed with that tweeter post. Before that i actually had a small, slim, tiny erg of hope they would adress the issue. But seing how that care not, i no longer feel the need to either,

Fair enough, I don't think that you should ever trust a corporate entity blindly so you're in the right there.

When it comes to things you pay for, you should never bind yourself to a product or producer as a consumer as at some point in time you will feel let down as it didn't live up to the standards they had set before. Don't care for who produces a product, care for the product because that is what you pay for (unless it it produced through malevolent ways like child labour but I have a hard time seeing that happen to the game industry).

I haven't pre-ordered a game in a couple of years (unless the demo is really, really good) and I usually wait for at least a couple of days afterwards. This has nothing to do with user reviews vs critic reviews but because by then you can often find a Let's Play or similar on Youtube which can showcase what a game is like much better than any words or any score can (and besides, never trust scores, numbers are bull**** when it comes to opinions because the value of each number is as varied as each opinion. Look at what people say about the game, not what the rate it as.).

I will personally give everyone the benefit of douct until proven otherwise. Who is to say that Bioware can't be awesome (I think they are still but that's me) again in the future? People change and so do employees and employers, whatever Bioware releases in the future I will look at their product as a clean slate and see if it interests me.

.....

Yeah, i think we finally understand one another....

[MissMaster_2]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Rumors are - originally they wanted to make indoctrination and then real ending. Then ran out of time and money and reworked indoctrination into real ending - hence this indoc theory and stuff. It will be interesting to see what they will come up with.

I hope this is true.

[Impulse and Compulse]

*sigh*

God dammit.

This is just such a ****ing mess.....

I don't know. I'll still wait and see, but I'll be done with Mass Effect if it's some half-assed attempt to justify their obvious mistake.

[RazzyBoyRo]

Why are you people mad?...Lets see at least what happens...

[Solmanian]

joejoe099 wrote...

maybe use indoct theory? Theory is good and solid, and they wouldn't have to change the ending at all too. basically add on like bethesda did with fallout 3 after so many people hated the ending

The theory is crazy. The only reason anyone would believe it was if he in turn was indoctrinated.